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WELL... I LIKE HER??!! | Mushoku Tensei Episode 4 | New Anime Fan! | REACTION (Patreon)

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2023-08-12 16:30:01
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A NEW CHARACTER????

Here is the PATREON EXCLUSIVE reaction to MUSHOKU TENSEI Episode 4!!

Enjoy!!

Comments

Arctic

this episode is one of my favorites for the whole Paul and Lilia thing. Comedy gold right there and also so wholesome

Timothy Munk

Keep in mind that you're hearing about Paul and Lilia from Rudy's POV after he likely heard his parents arguing.

Timothy Munk

Lilia saw that Paul and Zenith wanted a maid and traveled a month to move in with them. Doesn't sound like a hard R encounter

Grant Beaudette

Every time I watch someone react to Mushoku Tensei, they always come out of episodes 2 and 3 talking abut how much they love Paul and I just get to sit there and laugh.

Some0neElse

the "sick of little brothers" is from his past life. The people you saw beat the crap out of him and threw him out during the funeral scene were his brothers

Madlen Stauffer

The story is full of flawed characters, and it's about ther growth through the story. I read all lightnovel and all of the webnovel, the story is veery deep und has a big lore. The story gets even better with time.

Roxy’s Holy Relic

“They do say great men have great lusts.” -Roxy Migurdia (God)

Misteryk
>>115073617

Skipped content from novels: After Paul raped Lilia and left Dojo she became guard maid in palace. Her leg was pernamently injured by an assassin targeting princess she was taking care of. Because of her injury she couldn't fight anymore and became useless so they got rid of her, after that she found Greyrat's family job offer, She had experience as a mad and Zenith was expecting her first child. Llia also used her and Paul's past to make sure he won't refuse giving her a job

Dat_Saucy_Boy

The flaws in the characters are what make the characters so memorable in this show. This could be recency bias but I think Mushoku Tensei has some of the best characters in the business, and it's not just the protagonist it's all the characters. They're all so fleshed out that they feel like real people, it's probably my favorite part of the show.

Abe J

I always find it silly for reviewers to interject their morals into a world that isn't earth. Not applying it to your life or our time is understandable, but otherwise.. meh.

reesespieces342

Ok, real comment. Yes, this show does an amazing job of making characters that, while they have a bad backstory, you still like the character. Other comments have pointed this out, but there are so many flawed characters. Take Rudeus for example: you can't argue, he's a disgusting person. But that makes it all the more intriguing to see how he develops, you want to see what happens next. Also, I love the character development in this show, not a lot of time skips (that I remember), you're there for the whole journey and get to see everything. I know what you said about the morality of the Paul assault story, but keep in mind that this world is more of a medieval Europe time period (correct me if I'm wrong, I've never read the LNs), so things like that happened. However, they were punishable by law. Thanks to @FaerieRose I was able to correct my assumptions about the previous statement. I hope you feel better soon, can't wait 'til next week!

Guilherme Vergne

The "sick of brothers" line was because that scene he was kicked out home by his brothers after que skiped the parents funeral

BRUNO Marques

This new world doesn't operate on the same moral compass as ours. Marriage is one of them. Regardless, nobles act exactly as you would expect medieval nobles to act.

Timothy Munk
>>115073617

Oh, I've read the LNs. My point is that this information is filtered through Rudy's perspective after he overhears it. Demanding to be hired by and move in with the person who raped and traumatized her feels like Rudy missed some context there

kloos

I think the most questionable chapters are the ones that comes next, but the rest is amazing

Shiwa chan (edited)

Comment edits

2023-08-12 19:35:07 I believe the assault thing is a mistranslation . Rudi never straight out said a word related to that . He used a slang which meaning I don't know of .
2023-08-12 17:28:59 I believe the assault thing is a mistranslation . Rudi never straight out said a word related to that . He used a slang which meaning I find nowhere unless you know someone who is Japanese .

I believe the assault thing is a mistranslation . Rudi never straight out said a word related to that . He used a slang which meaning I find nowhere unless you know someone who is Japanese .

Keith Merrington

This is supposed to be a medieval equivalent society (but with magic & other non-humans), so the power structures and morals are different to what you are used to. You can judge the MT world by your morals, but it's a bit silly as it's a fantasy world and it's not supposed to be familiar. After all, no one is asking the viewers to adopt these differences - just (as you say) integrate them into the story. BTW - the age of adulthood in MT world is 15 (not 18). That was covered in episode 2. [And presumably the years in MT world are of a similar length to Earth years]. Glad you're enjoying it so far. Go get some rest though. Don't let your cold/flu/covid/whatever turn into something worse. Hope you feel better soon.

Keith Merrington
>>115073885

Doesn't necessarily work the other way round though :-) [and I guess that should be Goddess].

Terminal

Having never seen this show before... I think what they're doing here is interesting. They way they just glanced over what Paul did to her in the early days, how the child is undeniably her fault, etc etc. I think it's a very interesting take on the ways of the world. It's impossible to see the world in black and white. Paul seems like a pretty cool dude, but he's done some messed up shit. He's a foolish, fallible human, like any other. The morality this show presents is fascinating, and I think it is working towards presenting a world where anyone can be redeemed if they choose to be. Paul has chosen a life where you do not harm the weak, despite the things he's done in life, or perhaps because of them. Rudy has chosen a life far different from that of the Shut-In Neet. Even the Maid has shown signs of changing her life, from the temptress to the loyal servant. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is a very interesting direction the show is taking. I think it will be a story of redemption, and how anyone can be a good person despite their sins, so long as they actively choose to do so.

FaerieRose

Whole lot of gross r*pe apologizing in this thread. And for those hiding behind it being a medieval society, guess what? It was considered immoral then, too.

Keith Merrington
>>115075840

The phrase appears to be 純潔を散らし (which I'm assuming is a continuative of 純潔を散らす). 純潔 = 'purity/chastity', and 散らす means 'to scatter/to get rid of'. So it seems that the translation is probably correct in essence. Edit: And the bit before that uses 襲う which means 'to attack', so it wasn't consensual.

Daniel Griffiths

praise the holy relic luke... for it is a garment of god and an object worthy of divine treatment XD

reesespieces342
>>115077056

i don't think anyone here is defending Paul's actions, but providing context to what happened. I'll admit that I just looked it up and yes, I was incorrect on my assumption about assault in that period, and while it could be punished, during that time, women had less (almost no) say in the system. I just want to clear up that - for me at least - I only tried to apply my knowledge to a situation to explain what happened logically. Thank you for pointing out my falsities, i will correct them (curse you western civilization class).

Renagale

I want to share some backstory on Rudy we won't see in the anime. Rudy was actually a popular guy in his past life. He was decent looking very athletic and very smart. He was in several clubs and very involved with school. But he read a tech magazine that taught him how to build a computer so he bought the parts and built his own computer. Once building a computer he became completely infatuated with it he stopped studying and exercising and spend all his time playing games so much so that when entrance exams came to pass he scored so badly he was forced to join one of the worse rated schools in the area. This school was filled with delinquents who didn't take kindly to his overweight body and weird personality causing him to be bullied ruthlessly to the point he stopped going to school completely there's a little section after this point the anime will cover leading to the rest of his life before reincarnation. But that's why he is so weird but also a good person

Keith Merrington
>>115077056

You're missing the point. No one is advocating that the bad behaviors be emulated or celebrated. We're just saying that this fantasy world is one where the morals and behavior are what they are. They are part of the story. And for sure the rights and sexual autonomy of women was very different in medieval Europe (which this fantasy world somewhat resembles).

seansky

Moral or not, it's portraying a world with a different standard. I mean, they can go around brandishing a sword. People are held to a different set of standard comparatively. You can tell Paul is still getting scorned for it, but I don't think the laws are as well-enforced in this world. I don't think there's police. Agree that this is one of the more well built world for isekai. In my opinion though, as someone who read the books, it's not one of the most clean story telling, it tries to cover too much, and included too much twists and turn that sometimes you have to back track a few books to remind yourself of backstories. My personal favourite isekai is Honzuki no Gekokujou. IMO It's one of the best world building without feeling like it was made complex for complex sake. I appreciate how the world is revealed to the audience portion by portion, but always stayed relevant and the end goal had stayed true to the end. Wish there are more seasons, and it's just about to get good haha. It's alot more light hearted, so when you feel like a change of pace after all these heavy anime I see you reviewing, please consider this.

Anonymous

you can always take a break if you are not feeling good we love you and we will wait fro the time you will feel better

Jacob

mushoku tensei is so interesting because it shows characters as truly flawed and doesn't pull punches like other stuff does. other shows wouldn't show a character like Paul cheating or r***ing because the standard view is that people would find that unforgivable, but this anime does it anyways because it has an overarching theme of becoming better than you where, and to try and build up from unforgivable to respectable is a hell of a feat as a writer.

Daniel Griffiths

thanks for the vid get well soon bro

Daniel V
>>115075840

mistranslation or not paul did indeed r-word the maid so it does not matter wharever the word is or translation

Keith Merrington

I've seen a lot of criticism of Paul (re this episode) for his infidelity and rape of Lilia, I've never seen anyone criticize him for child abuse though (Knocking Rudy unconscious and effectively aiding a kidnap). Interesting how this show highlights the moral offenses people really get upset about.

syaimaral

Watching this again, I realize how crappy his father is even though he tries to be a good parent. I actually forgot most of season 1 because the second season really outshined season 1 and made it an adventure anime. It really showcased the world which I was really interested in. This show is more of a coming of age anime following Rudeus and his growth. Season 1 has a lot of questionable stuff which I vaguely remember. I like seeing the character's progression and how he still retain certain aspects of his personality. When people say, "People never change." it probably refers to their core self not changing which I think this show demonstrates. I also like how they include unsavory topics in the show. For me, it makes the show more realistic. The world is not just rainbows and butterflies. There are scummy people. It gives the characters more depth and makes them more well rounded, more realistic.

Ian Campbell

Don’t worry, everyone agrees Paul is scum

Ricko Andrew

Mushoku Tensei really the weird one in the fantasy genre. Usually fantasy genre would goih around tell the system, magic, world, and tell many interesting story. But with Mushoku Tensei, they really just like to give you a human story. Like, a story that just not even fantasy world, but a story that could happen irl too. They tell us how the humans would act and feel. We can throw all the fantasy stuff away and still get a good logic, drama slice of life anime.

Mokinata

Seeing a lot of justifying and such of Paul's actions and imo he's one of the most interesting characters in the show but just like how Scar in FMAB is super interesting and at times likeable (spoiler warning here for non FMAB watchers), Paul assaulting Lilia (in the past) is terrible and unforgivable, just like Scar killing the Rockbells is terrible and unforgivable. That said, I'm going to point out that r*pe and murder are crimes of the same magnitude, if not that murder is the worse crime. We tend to be desensitized to that because murder is so much more common in fiction, but if we had found out Paul killed someone in cold blood in the past, it should warrant the same "he is unforgivable" reaction. We can enjoy watching these characters be people beyond their worst moments and still not try to justify and defend said moments. Scar should not have killed the Rockbells even if he was having a PTSD episode, just like Paul should not have assaulted Lilia even if he had reasons. Those reasons are given in the source material, but I will not mention them explicitly because it is not anime material. As an aside, I will say that reasons in these sorts of stories are not given to justify or defend, but to contextualize. He may not have done it for NO reason, and the source material may give that reason, but it's not trying to say he was right to do so. It's just establishing a motive - that he didn't do it randomly and out of nowhere. Love the hell out of this show but we really don't have to run around trying to justify the characters faults. The author made the characters that way on purpose: it's more interesting because they're almost all fucked up in one way or another and it makes it feel much more true to the human experience. It's part of what makes us who love the show love it.

Obscuremango

Hey Luke, in the latest mushoku tensei episode there was a cut scene, where sylphie was there when Ghislaine showed up, she saw Paul beat up Rudy so she attacked him and almost killed him. Just some fun info on it. Oh and the ova fits in after episode 16/17. this is a light novel stuff that won't be covered as its way too far gone.

IntoVoid

Hope you don't get sick. Never overwork yourself! Take care of your health!

KeanuofRivia

Bro I gotta say I love how you put it! So many people say "if you can overlook [blank]" or if "you can ignore [blank]" but love how you said that you're gonna integrate the messed up moments with how you view the show rather than ignore or overlook them. And excellent way to put it my man, glad you're liking the show!

Mirvi
>>115074488

For stories that are based on different Ages, i.e. Mushoku or Vinland being somewhere in Middle Ages (I guess?) I try to take into account what life was during those times. Sure, I'm not a history nerd, but I'd imagine life in those periods were rough and things that we say are questionable now were more common back then, hell even normalized which kinda creeps me out. I'd also imagine there was nothing else to do except screw people on free time so... Neat I guess? It is easy to take a moral high ground on something that was seen more acceptable long time ago, and for what it's worth if humanity survives another 1000 years things what we do now in our everyday lives will be seen as weird and immoral by the future generations. Or maybe this is my coping mechanism that helps me draw the line between real everyday life and stories of old/fiction

fili0938
>>115085414

I think the OVA breaks up the seamless flow between 16 and 17. He should watch the OVA after 17 even though that's not fully chronological.

fili0938
>>115073831

I will also add that it's not a redemption story like many people say, as some of the things done in the series are irredeemable. But if you work hard to be the best possible person going forward, that's all you can really do.

fili0938
>>115074488

It's a fucked up thing to think morals don't exist regardless of time period, laws or culture. Laws and traditions should be molded around morality and now the other way around.

Abe J
>>115074488

You can literally look back 50 years here on earth and see how they are different. Hell you can just go to another country and see how they are different. Now you are talking about a fictional fantasy world that is not even earth. Gimmie a break.

nikum
>>115085414

Yeah do not watch the OVA between 16 and 17, it's the worst way possible to do it, either after 17, 18 (similar theme to 16 and 17) or after the whole season is done.

nikum
>>115077056

Nobody in here thinks what Paul did was ok, we're just giving context, like the fact that he was a stupid 13 yo, in a medieval society etc etc. Would you forgive something like that if it were a 13 yo kid doing it?

Suichoku

You have the right attitude with the show. You should not accept the horrible / bad acts done, but you should understand how they relate to the story /growth and age period. I am really glad you can see past the taboos and see how masterfully the story and the world is built.

rostikowb
>>115073708

It's funny, but it's logical, which explains its popularity among women

Luke

Lillia experienced so many much worse people than Paul after he r***d her that she desensitized and doesn't see what he did to her as that bad by the time she becomes their maid. She also saw it as something to hold over him to ensure she'd get the job. There's a lot of fucked up shit in the world of Mushoku Tensei and you're not supposed to excuse or justify it.

Matthew Williams
>>115084085

What really should be pointed out though is the common sense of this fantasy world. Paul r@ping Lillias is scummy as heck yes but he's nobility and she was a peasant what you or I might think is abhorrent behavior is not only common place but excepted in that world. That's why she never hated Paul even though he did what he did. We don't need to justify Paul, the world around him justifies his actions, you can dislike that all you want but by doing so you fall into a literary trap of forcing real world logic and morals on a non real world place and story the 2 are not the same at all.

Matthew Williams

Paul being from a major noble house what he did to Lillia was easily overlooked since she was from a commoner family. Lillia was actually given a job as a maid/bodyguard to royalty for what happened and her life after that point would have been secure. She is a maid for Paul and Zenith because during an assassination attempt on her charge she fought of the assassin long enough for guards to arrive, in the process she was hit in the leg and poisoned. This led to her having severally reduced strength and mobility in her damaged leg and for trouble she was tossed out with practically no compensation and no where to go with a bum leg too boot. She found out Paul and Zenith had just married in an advertisement looking for a maid so she bet on her connection to him to get a job.

draggo
>>115094517

Paul didn't actually r*** her, Rudeus just said he did to get Lilia out of trouble because he knew in this medieval-esque fantasy world, the best way to keep everyone together was to blame it all on Paul. Still f**ked up, just in a different way... and the alternative was Lilia leaving and likely dying in the process. "Lesser evil"

FinalMasterM

I addressed the holy relic in the last episode's comments :P

Strang

"He needs to get some, and you watch, be completely different man" How truly accurate, and yet..... :)

ArtKi

6:43 "This guy needs to grow up." That *is* this show!

GTB

Ok, ok, let's talk about Lilia and Paul's past, because there's a misinterpretation of things due to cultural misunderstanding. What Rudeus is talking about, Paul's act, refers to Yobai, an ancient Japanese custom. (one silently enters the other's home for the purpose of mating...->if the other consents<-). A strange custom, especially for us Westerners 2 centuries later, but it has nothing to do with what some people imagine to be what we call rape here. Moreover, in the Light Novel, Lilia makes it clear that if she wasn't in love, she wasn't against it either. As you can imagine, Lilia doesn't have a stockholm syndrome such that she would be the maid, then the second wife (mother of Paul's daughter) of the man who raped her. Although it seems obvious, I'd also like to point out that the world of Mushoku Tensei is inspired by medieval Europe. It's a context to keep in mind, just like Game of Thrones. Paul really is a moron who screws up a lot, but there's nothing binary about what Mushoku Tensei describes here. Paul is full of flaws, but at least he sincerely tries to be the best father he can be. He doesn't always succeed, but he tries. That's exactly what Mushoku Tensei is all about; because it's the same for all the characters: they're fallible (so expect being conflicted often). It's this incredible writing of the characters that makes the series so interesting. It's also what makes the high points so exhilarating, so intense. Well, you may not realize it yet, Luke, but one page has been turned, another begins. And in 2 weeks...:)

Shiwa chan
>>115075840

The translation is wrong . It should be : In the end , Lilia was lying down slowly and deflowered. That description reads like it was a romantic occurrence . There is no mention of it being non consensual .You wouldn't work for and seduce someone who gave you trauma in the past . Rudi said "osoi" (slow,late) not attack . When Rudi said "nekomi" ( lie down,sleep) the translation uses the word assault . Its not the first time some SJW who doesn't like his job inserts his opinion in a product without the studios knowledge .Even on the The Eminence In Shadow stream they used the word "nekomi" to describe the person was asleep at the time of the occurrence . Which is a weird slang I just found out today what it means .

Rugo

Honestly I believe the show purposely makes you conflicted, I believe the show is like a demonstration of these terrible faults in people and them still changing into a better person over all is like a main part of the story

Kitsune

It's good that you feel the way as it is about the characters for the current episodes. A lot of values and decisions are definitely questionable irl but can be different in the world the author is building in the story.

Beowolf Chow
>>115084085

I feel that all of this, is just to act as additional stumbling blocks for Rudeus. He is isekai'd into a world where he not only has power, and a degree of privilege, but the world has systems in it designed to feed into the worst impulses of his previous life. He has to grow and change as a person; all the while the world around him straddles the line between giving him the opportunity to change and saying that if he doesn't want to, he really doesn't have to. That way, his growth is self-motivated, rather than forced on him by circumstance.

Obscuremango
>>115085414

Ye I meant 17, my bad, the books.had it between there and I forgot oops

Kenneth K

just be aware that sometimes there are after credit scenes. Hope you feel better!

Mokinata
>>115084085

@Matthew since we're talking about source material now I'll just get into that because the "Paul nobility Lillia peasant" argument doesn't quite work here and again, is motivation not justification. (Spoiler warning for some side stories) The full context behind this incident is that Paul learned swordsmanship (maybe just one style don't remember 100%) from Lilia's father. The father was running a school which had many students, all of which largely ended up competing for Lilia's affection. Paul ended up getting isolated from the other students because he was the best student and stuck-up about it, and in retaliation for getting harassed he r*ped Lilia. It's explicitly stated that he did so wanting to make a mess out of the school and to cuck the other students. And she did hate Paul for what he did initially, but after years and her needing a damn job she stopped caring. I might be talking out of my ass on this next point because I'm not looking at the text but I'm pretty sure Lilia's dad wanted to kill Paul too. It was definitely not a "oops nobility be like this" moment, nobody involved treated it like "standard nobility behavior," noble and peasant included. Later in this arc we will see many "oops nobility be like this" moments, but Paul and Lilia is very much not that. I'm not one for forcing real life morals on any form of fiction, and I can definitely get past many of the morality conflicts in this show. That being said, this case is quite cut and dry. Paul was intentionally trying to inflict pain on the people in the sword school as retaliation, and used Lilia as a means to do so. Maybe he felt he had a right to that as nobility, maybe he felt like he could get away with it, but nobody who saw it happened just shrugged and said "that's just how it works here." He did something very wrong. That being said, he's also simply an anime character with a backstory that informs his current behavior and disposition. It's interesting to know where he came from, where he is, and where he's going, even if I think his past actions were terrible. No point quitting watching the show or whining because the guy who did bad things didn't get punished enough for it or something. Knowing he's the kind of person who would do something unforgivable like that out of spite actually helps add more color to why he was so quick to slap Rudeus earlier, why he would have an affair, etc. This sort of thing makes the whole world feel more lived in and full. As an aside Beowolf makes a good point that I had not considered wholly. This show is damn great and looking at it from that perspective explains a lot about why Rudeus is such a compelling protagonist.

FaerieRose
>>115077056

R*pe a sleeping woman? No, I wouldn’t forgive that. The kid would be heading to juvie.

NnT042
>>115101348

Guys please put all your votes on THIS explanation. The rest of the thread is people screaming "OMG R-word!" or "but, middle ages!". Even the ones talking translation don't sound like they know Japanese. We need Luke to understand that Paul is scum because he bedded her and ran off, NOT because of any R shenanigans. *Osoi* can be translated "assault" but in context it SHOULD mean "sneak up on". He went into the girl's dorm in the dead of night and seduced her, just as stated here. This vid isn't going to YT so we need to clarify this above all the noise in these comments.

Sai

Classic Paul.

Chrono 1002

Not gonna lie, I was expecting a pause right away when Ghislaine appeared. You can already see how physics is gonna play an important role in the future. Probably the reason why the deed doesn't get as much importance is because Lilia has already been living together with them for years. If she had resentment towards Paul that probably wouldn't have happened, let alone her seducing him. Either way Paul is a true garbage.

Zepher

I completely agree about being so conflicted over this one. No show has ever challenged me so much with just how close it gets to crossing the line to being irredeemable. To its credit, it hasn't crossed it yet for me, and I genuinely love what it does have to offer.

Himiyo
>>115101348

Idk where either of you got the idea this is yobai, or why this has so many likes, it was definetly rape, nothing consensual or seducing about it. Here's some examples: "Paul snuck into my room at night and forcibly had his way with me - I'd cried, at first." "Or how Paul had forced himself on her in the middle of the night and taken her virtue." Minor spoilers for a non-adapted chapter in Vol. 6; | | | | "One night, he snuck into Lilia's sleeping chambers and stole her innocence. Lilia tried to struggle of course, but there was nothing she could do." "Lilia developed a distrust for men after that. She felt fear at the gazes of other students and blatantly avoided bodily contact." "Still, a father was a father. As a parent, he couldn't force his daughter to be with a man after the deep mental scars she'd sustained."

Keith Merrington
>>115074488

@fili0938 - Some morals are constant, such as the prohibition against killing people (at least killing your 'own kind' - outsiders were/are fair game for most of history). Other morals vary across cultures, religions, necessities and comprehension. E.g. Slavery, which is seen as a vile evil today, was commonplace throughout most of human history. While not strictly necessary, slavery brought many advantages for societies (mainly through agricultural labour) and became key to the survival of those societies. More recently, many of the moral norms today would have been outlandish only a few generations ago (e.g. legality of homosexuality, gay marriage, women's rights in general, racial discrimination...). I have no doubt that in a generation or two we will be equally harshly judged for some of the things we allow today - in particular I'm thinking of the widespread abuse of animals in farming and the lack of concerted action against climate change. Probably other things too that I can't imagine.

Tommy Jensen

I'm sure someone's already mentioned this, but one of the major themes of this story is redemption. Paul has done some really shitty things in the past, and he's still not gonna win any "father of the year" title anytime soon, but he's trying. Rudy is a horrible person that uses his tiny brain more then his normal brain, but as he's reborn, he sees the opportunity to change his ways. This show if full of characters that are horrible people, but people can change, and with hard work, it's possible for a change to happen. But it also takes time, for Rudy, 20 years of his old life was wasted, change doesn't happen over night. So don't feel bad about saying you like a character, but then learning about things they have done in their past (or might do in current time), now feeling weird you still like that character. You will see over the course of watching the series how people evolve, this is also why they decided to give a different VA to his inner monologue vs. his speaking voice. Having his inner monologue being the voice of a grown man rather then what ever state of growth he is currently in, is a constant reminder to us of what he's left behind, and what it is he's trying to change for the better in this second chance.

Keith Merrington
>>115075840

@Shiwa chan - maybe. I checked the Japanese subtitles as well and the ones I have definitely use 襲い (osou in it's continuative) and not 遅い (osoi). But the person writing the subtitles may have made a mistake.

Keith Merrington
>>115084085

@Mokinata - I disagree with you in thinking that people are trying to justify Paul's attack on Lilia. It's more just trying to analyse under which moral framework such a rape would be tolerated. E.g. Not that long ago (1992 - UK) it was not legally possible for a husband to rape his wife. Before even that, 'rape' was defined in terms of forced penetration, which means if no force was required (e.g. due to the woman being asleep) then it wasn't rape. Neither of these instances are true anymore, but maybe in the MT society there is some similar moral framework. It would make sense within the story. It would also explain any rationalization that Paul might have used to justify it to himself, and why he doesn't seem to feel bad about it now.

Keith Merrington
>>115101348

@NnT042 - I went by the Japanese subtitles which definitely states 襲い (attack) and not 遅い (slow). Now maybe the person doing the subtitles got it wrong (they are homophones), but the 'attack' translation seems to fit well.

dartcp

is this feeling you have towards paul not a good thing, because the fact that you are so torn with paul simply speaks for a well-written character and it's not just the characters but also the story and the world that are well written are and that's what makes a good series/anime

XT 421

"This dude needs to grow up, get some, and I'm telling you - he'll be a completely different person" ~Luke, Season 1, Episode 4. Oh Luke, I love your reactions, sincerely I do. Please save this quote of yours.

Daniel V
>>115101348

dude stop defending paul he raped her,like it or not and thats part of the story

Martin Vaclavik

"It's like watching a DnD game unfold" lol I can't believe you said that at the beginning of the opening, which I actually use as an intro in my DnD games where I DM xDDD

John

Show does a great job of showing that most people are not completely evil. Some people, like Paul, are absolute scum. That doesn't mean he doesn't have good points either. People are complex.

Luke
>>115094517

He did actually r*** her when they trained swordsmanship together when they were younger. That's what I was referring to. He specifically did it out of spite of their swordmaster/Lillia's dad.

GTB
>>115101348

Ok, it seems I need to clarify a few things. I don't wanna be misunderstood, so let's be clear: -> I didn't say that what Paul did is a Yobai, I said that what he did refers (without the slightest doubt) to the Yobai custom. Sneaking into a girl's house at night to mate doesn't come out of nowhere. Unlike here, for us, where the very act of sneaking in is already pejorative, it makes sense culturally over there. The cultural context in which a work is written has its importance in the way you perceive it. That's what I was saying. -> I never meant to imply that Paul's act is ok, and even less that it was a tender act. On the contrary, it's further proof that Paul is a complete asshole. And there will be other proof, other characters who don't like him at all. But I was just pointing out that between the reference to this custom, the words of the Light Novel and of Lilia who (in my version*) describe it as an act not particularly wanted and pleasurable, but accepted nonetheless; and the inspired context of the medieval...there are nuances to be brought to its interpretation of rape as we think of it today. ->* There seem to be different translations. And apparently there's a lot of discussion about mistranslations of Light Novels into English. Which I can easily believe because there are often incorrect translations from Japanese, but I don't have enough information on this to say exactly what it's like for Mushoku Tensei. I can only say that in my version, it's a rather brutal act, but accepted by Lilia. Even in Extra Chapter "Distorted, but unchanged. Maybe it's my version that's wrong, I'll find out what the original Japanese version means. But even in the English version, there's nuance and complexity as well. Lilia says "Even though I didn't hate him, but I didn't like him either. The first time wasn't very romantic[...] Once I thought that Paul was better than them, I didn't mind that incident as much." Later, it is Lilia who wants to be Paul's maid. It is she who initiates the sexual relationship that leads to her pregnancy. And it's Lilia, again, who wants to return to Paul after the "event". In other circumstances, Lilia uses the word "rape" (so the concept does exist in this world). She never uses that word for what Paul did. It's quite clear that she's not in love with Paul, but neither is she angry or resentful; on the contrary, she wants to stay by his side out of duty as a maid, and as a member of the family. So I'll say it again, to be clear about what I'm saying: what Paul has done is NOT right. It's still wrong, that's obvious. Paul is a character with a lot of problems. The story never suggests otherwise. But it's not the rape some people imagine, either. And if I insist on context and nuances, it's because the story is like that, Mushoku Tensei relies on nuances that make situations complicated, neither all white, nor all black. I hope I've expressed myself more clearly. @ Daniel V > The thing is, I'm not defending Paul. Please, let's not waste our time with stupid comments, ok?

Himiyo
>>115101348

Okay, I understand the point you were making more now but I have to say you're completely misinterpreting here. First of all nothing in the LN really refers to yobai at all, sure Paul sneeked into Lilia's dorm but that's not soley what yobai is, and the act of sneaking into rooms for sex is a worldwide occurance. But anyway this really is completely irrelevant to the topic as even if rifujin was inspired by yobai to write this section of story it doesn't change how the characters feel, act and react to all of this, so moving on. The main problem with your interpretation and your comments is that you're saying things like "but it has nothing to do with what some people imagine to be what we call rape here", and "Lilia doesn't have a stockholm syndrome such that she would be the maid, then the second wife (mother of Paul's daughter) of the man who raped her." These statements very clearly make it out that Paul didn't rape here, or that what Paul done was in some way not rape, because it 100% was, both the anime and the LN are very direct and clear about this, both in the official translation and the original publish. (I own both but i'm sure you could download a copy if you'd like to triple check) Lilia talking about not hating him is before he raped her, regardless of someones reaction to SA, doesn't make it not SA, and even if it did Lilia was severely traumatised for years due to Paul. Whilst Lilia did talk about how her next SA was worse and made Pauls SA not feel as bad in comparison, she was still deeply effected by it. The reason she became his maid is also made clear, and it's because she spent time overcoming her fear of men she learned from him and the minister and then was in desperate need of a job, Paul was a nobel in desperate need of a good maid, she could use her experience with him to get higher pay, and she noticed Paul had changed since those days, not because she either just forgave Paul overnight or had stockholm syndrome. "But it's not the rape some people imagine, either." It absolutely is though, infact i'd dare to say the details make it even worse than you'd first think from the quick glance in the anime. Of course this world doesn't share modern ideals and things like SA are much more readily forgotten about especially from nobels, but that does not include the victim, different world, different time, still humans doing human stuff. The nuance that comes from this situation is entirely Lilias strength and will, as well as Paul doing extremely fucked up things in the past but growing and trying to be a good person in spite of that, not the details of the actual encounter. I don't believe you're trying to defend Paul here, but your interpretation or explanations directly conflict with the wording in the source, and I also believe it spreads a false idea to those who haven't read the LN. (as well as @NnT042 confirming that bias and saying shit that is just factually wrong)

K1llsh0t_87

Them glossing over the fact that Paul Raped Lilia just shows what this world is like, Lilia was just a commoner while Paul is a noble so people in that world view it as somewhat normal, like yea its not viewed as a good thing but it's like a lie, people frown upon lying but at the end of the day if it happens then oh well, and also one of the biggest themes aside from the redemption people keep mentioning is also that 1 or multiple bad choices doesn't make up your entire personality, Paul is a cheater and a rapist yet he also has many good qualities about him too so if you know him you know he's not entirely a bad person, rudeous is a pedo and just in general a massive pervert however he also is willing to sacrifice his life for complete strangers, and helps people in need whenever he sees it, so it shows that people are more than just what the worst or best things they do are

K1llsh0t_87
>>115151310

Also let me clarify I'm not saying the good cancels out the bad, but I'm also saying the bad doesn't cancel out the good, people are complex and calling someone a bad person just because they raped someone at some point in their life is a disservice but also calling someone a good person just because they sacrificed themself to save someone is also a disservice to the complexity of people

kazadori164 .

o look flawed charters, just like real life, everyone isn't just good or evil. it's not cut and dry like most Isekai written by and for 10yo's here is the bad guy hate him, here is the good guy like him.

gunchar
>>115151310

"""and calling someone a bad person just because they raped someone at some point in their life is a disservice""" Bruh..., were you stoned as you wrote that nonsense? The only way a literal rapist is not a bad person(not being ENTIERLY a bad person is a completely different story, a realistic bad person rarely ever is a mustache twirling Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain after all) is if they were under some kind of external influence, and that Paul is absolute scum should be anyways not even up for debate. Doing bad things don't makes doing good things bad, but a literal rapist obviously stays a bad person even if they also do good things.

gunchar
>>115074488

That's bullshit, we aren't talking about a historian trying to review something written by someone actually from the Middle Ages here, the creator of Mushoku Tensei is from our time and writes for people from our time. Also rape was anyways always a bad thing, it didn't just all of a sudden became a traumatic event after people started to see it as strictly immoral.

gunchar

Ufff after reading this partly just absolutely wild comment section, i hope you never react to something like Redo of Healer(well its anyways hot garbage, and boils down to being an at very best middling Hentai in disguise).

K1llsh0t_87
>>115151310

I stand by my statement, judging a person's entire life based on a single decision is just willful ignorance, (not saying they should be free from consequences) my point is that a single action doesn't determine your entire personality and used the 2 most extreme examples in this show so far on both sides, literally sacrificing your life to save others and doing something that can be considered a form of torture, I'm not justifying or downplaying either side I'm just saying if someone is 20 for example you shouldn't just judge them based on what they did in one day and completely ignore the other 7000 days they have been alive (also to clarify I'm not calling paul a good person because he consistently fucks up so even if he never raped lilia he'd still be a bad person and the rape just makes him that much worse)

David M

One thing most "western" watchers don't get is that in the novel, when they talk about Lilia and Paul's past, they SPECIFICALLY use the Japanese term "Yobai (夜這い)". this translated into english as "night crawling" and up until the 20th century was a widespread practice of "courtship" in Japan, where a man would enter a woman's bedroom, make his intentions known, and if there was consent, they'd consummate the relationship. Paul was being courted by Lilia's father to inherit his dojo, and set Paul up to be with Lilia, and him doing that would result in a wedding. Paul instead RAN AWAY after the consummation. This "deflowered" her and ruined not only Paul's standing, but made Lilia unfit to be married off again to someone else. Paul's a bastard, but he fits in with the no too long ago past of Japanese courtship before the west introduced them to "dating". The real bastard part was running away.

David M
>>115151310

Except it wasn't rape. Lilia's own father set her and Paul up, and the term used in the novel is "Yobai (夜這い)". Look up what that is and what it entails.

David M
>>115101348

襲い (osoi) has three definitions: 1) To attack, assault, hunt someone down, to strike. 2) To succeed someone in a post/role/etc. 3) To make a sudden visit Paired with the fact that the LN specifically uses the term "夜這い" to reference the event, it's #3 in this case, and it was clearly set up by Lilia's father as per LN6.

Nicki Noble

Luke, please be sure you watch opening credits. There is information there that is pertinent to the story.

David (edited)

Comment edits

2023-08-16 17:19:13 I wouldn't say it's a spoiler that one if not the main point of this show is too make the viewer feel conflicted, and deal with actual controversy but it really does that authentically but it is a long run to get that. This isn't your normal happy rainbow anime so I suggest that you don't expect to be prepared and I'd say you needn't worry about feeling great of every aspect these characters adress at all times very broad characters all of them in my opinion. Everytime there's a cringe/complicated situation it was more nuanced and explained in the light novel even so this show "shows the controversy" and pushes it in our face instead of brushing it inunder the rug. When you get the highs of this show it pulls my heartstrings everytime.
2023-08-16 09:47:53 I wouldn't say it's a spoiler that one if not the main point of this show is too make the viewer feel conflicted and deal with actual controversy, it really does that authentically but it is a long run to get there. This isn't your normal happy rainbow anime so I suggest that you don't expect to be prepared and I'd say you needn't worry about feeling great of every aspect these characters adress at all times very broad characters all of them in my opinion. Everytime there's a cringe/complicated situation it was more nuanced and explained in the light novel even so this show "shows the controversy" and pushes it in our face instead of brushing it inunder the rug. When you get the highs of this show it pulls my heartstrings everytime.

I wouldn't say it's a spoiler that one if not the main point of this show is too make the viewer feel conflicted and deal with actual controversy, it really does that authentically but it is a long run to get there. This isn't your normal happy rainbow anime so I suggest that you don't expect to be prepared and I'd say you needn't worry about feeling great of every aspect these characters adress at all times very broad characters all of them in my opinion. Everytime there's a cringe/complicated situation it was more nuanced and explained in the light novel even so this show "shows the controversy" and pushes it in our face instead of brushing it inunder the rug. When you get the highs of this show it pulls my heartstrings everytime.

Mychael Dark
>>115336224

The show literally glofifies a pedophile rapist childgroomer and tries to make him the hero of the story while making his disgusting acts seem funny. I've read the LN, there is VERY little nuance to his character. I'm actually very disappointed that G.O.T. even gave this pedophile dream anime any air time.

Mychael Dark
>>115151310

When Paul raped Lilia in the library had NOTHING to do with her father.

Mychael Dark
>>115075276

No I don't want to see how Rudeus develops. I would like to see him die in the most horrible way possible that a pedophile rapist childgroomer deserves. But this is a story that glorifies such a character. People who actually try to defend this degeneracy should be lobotomized.

reesespieces342
>>115075276

That's the cool thing; you don't like it, so you don't have to watch it. If something like this disturbs you to such a degree you can leave. Simple as that.

David
>>115336224

I find your conclusions to be objectively wrong but you stuck through to the end of the LN so cudos for that. But I also have a friend who find portrayals like these to be glorifications as well and he literally hate this show based on reading part of the webmanga, he sais he hate weak characters like this. He also can't understand how I relate to this series and at that I find it to be a genuine portrayal of trauma at all so I guess we're all not here with the same experiential baggage and value placing. I can understand how you feel but I will still stand for that we need to adress everything this show deal with since not adressing it is a world which sweeps it under the rug and leave people with mental illness for themselves trying to heal with an already dysfunctional mindset, we're leading ourselves into an isolationist world without adressing it and a helpessness to even save my or our own child if they ever find themselves in a dark holes like this. I think these discussions are whats important for a better world.

Harley Burnie
>>115336224

@Mychael Dark You seem awfully afraid of a little fiction about imperfect people from another culture. If you feel so foul about the content, why tf are you on the Patreon video comments. If we are watching these reactions, it is because we enjoy the anime and/or novels, or just enjoy Luke's quality content. You have no power here, and you seem to be harming yourself by being here. Just click on the videos you want to see, and let the rest of us brave souls, who can withstand fantasy stories which don't alway comply with our monder Western standards, enjoy the videos, k?

Harley Burnie
>>115336224

@Mychael Dark Also, Rudeus is NOT the hero. Bad phrasing dude. Rudeus is the PROTAGONIST, and one that is clearly shown to have countless unacceptable issues, and a lifelong cycle or growth and collapse. Did you really get through the written source material, because this makes me question your qualifications to make such a statement. I suppose you should stick with your Harry Potters and Supermans, because Japan must scare the shite outta you. <3

Harley Burnie

Luke, where were these multitude of brothers you thought were in the show? Lolz. Of course, he is talking about the little brothers who beat his ass and kicked him out on to the street, where he died. 6:41 Luke, you just don't get it. Roxy is God. At least to Rudy. She guided his magic. She broke through his trauma for him. She gave him top grade fap material. She basically said she'd be his when he's adult. He has many, many reasons to worship her. Also, those pantsu? I believe they are a pair she wore on one of those "observation" nights at Paul and Zenith's house. That would be a blessing to this ex-otaku.

Anonymous

Luke, something that you also have to consider is that this new fantasy world is driven by its own "common sense/knowledge" more similar to our medieval times than our modern era. What we think is unforgiveable (we can all agree that what Paul did to both Lilia AND Zenith truly is unforgiveable and deserves judgement and punishment in our society) might not be seen as such by this fantasy world people. Now, in my personal opinion, this is one of the characteristics that makes this show so refreshing, the show does not try to make us forget our POV (reminding us of it by Rudeus thoughts of his past life) and accommodate it to this new world's standards, but it actually tries to make us compare and debate about it. Rudeus IS a 40+ man but learning to live through and as a kid growing up in this new world, with his own opinions and experiences but not knowing if they're good or wrong most of the times.

Acerama

Ok so on the "Holy Relic" thing, I can only hope they were a clean pair that she left behind for him and he hasn't done anything with them since. As for why he calls them a Holy Relic, it's because to him she is a Goddes for taking him outside and teaching him he doesn't have to be scared of people. So since they are an object from his Goddess, they are a "Holy Relic."

draggo
>>115094517

Oh geeze, I totally missed that... or forgot it. Maybe I didn't want to remember it lol Sorry, late reply

Nicholas Roberti
>>115151310

Yikes, don't get me wrong, Paul's a dick but it's pretty obvious that there was no rape involved. Just good old fashioned infidelity. Once again, Paul is cheating scum and future eps prove his assholishness, but he's not a rapist, ya'll needa chill for a sec

K1llsh0t_87
>>115151310

He literally raped lilia tho, if sneaking into someone's room in the middle of the night, assaulting them in their sleep and then fleeing isn't rape then idk what is

Jeff

I love the foreshadowing in earlier episodes that points to Paul's hypocrisy, as well as sowing seeds for Rudy's argument with his mom.

Jerid Glasspoole

well Paul is a knight, and he comes from a family of lords.

Xaniss

well he didn't really properly grow up and become an adult after basically giving up life when he was a teen, but yeah still weird, but that's just how it is, it gets better fortunately

kiwi
>>115151310

That's not what happened tho. Once again, look up "Yobai" and then you'll understand why it's forgivable.

CaptainVanisher
>>115094517

a little late on that but no he did not r*pe her, it's actually a mistranslation. What happened is night crawling (that's the term used in Japanese in both the manga and the anime). Night crawling is going to the bed of the woman and if there is consent, sleeping with her and being officially a couple. It's something that officiates it in a few words. What Paul did which was scummy, was do night crawling and then flee when it's time to take responsibility and make her his wife. That in turn made Lilia unable to be given off to marriage because she was deflowered. So in that sense, it was scummy af but it's nowhere near actual "r*pe"

Luke
>>115094517

Maybe they changed that in the manga and anime to make Paul more likeable, but in the light novel it's pretty clear that it was r*pe. There were multiple sentences describing how it happened instead of just a mistranslated phrase.

Matt Tucker
>>115283879

It makes no difference whether it's called yobai or sex, the significance is that in Japanese, it's called 無理矢理の夜這い, that is, forcible, non-consensual Yobai. Paul forced "yobai* on a struggling Lilia in tears, in order to punish people who love her, and he intended to run as soon as he's done, he intends for her kins to find out in order to retaliate against them. It's not a misunderstanding to call "forcible yobai" rape even if it's not explicitly spelled out as レイプ in Japanese.

Anonymous

It's not completly clear what exactly happened between Paul and Lilia. There are some cultural differences, e.g. the act of "yobai", where a man slips into a womans bed naked to have sex with her - this does not mean its not consensual per se. As far as I know, this was the word used in the novel, so this throwaway line could be translated diffently and far more tame. Additionally, Paul was like 12 years old when that happened and growing up in a world that doesn't teach about consent, so there is a lot of grey area (and lack of oversight) as well. Lilia seems to be okay with what happened, which to me is more important than the legal definition of the act

killilu

decided to rewatch the 1st season with you and at the beginning I couldn't remember why I didn't like paul but wow this episode reminded me quick. wtf indeed

Visoth
>>121828122

Its written very clear in the light novels it was r*pe. Quite literally. I don't know why people try to frame this as anything other than it. I will quote the line verbatim: "One night, he snuck into Lilia’s sleeping chambers and stole her innocence. Lilia tried to struggle of course, but there was nothing she could do. Once everything was over, she was left in a daze." and "Lilia developed a distrust for men after that. She felt fear at the gazes of the other students and blatantly avoided bodily contact. That didn’t change, not even after she turned fifteen and became an adult."

Visoth
>>115283879

It's written clear as day in the Light Novel this was r*pe. Why do I see this excuse for Paul so frequently? Read the Light Novel yourself! I'll even quote the important part: "One night, he snuck into Lilia’s sleeping chambers and stole her innocence. Lilia tried to struggle of course, but there was nothing she could do. Once everything was over, she was left in a daze." She developed trauma from this as well, and couldn't inheirit her fathers training Dojo, because of her distrust for men caused by trauma. It's very explicit in the Light Novels that it was not consensual and very traumatic for her.

David M
>>121828122

日本語が読めなければ、他人の真実を鵜呑みにしていることになる

River
>>115076033

thats not how morals work, rape being more common, doesnt change the fact that rape is bad "the age of adulthood in MT world is 15 (not 18)." that is weird

River
>>115074488

rape is bad, morality dosnt change when ur ina diffrent time pierod, rape was always bad, it also dosnt fanish when its a fantacy world, rape dosnt suddnly become fine if they are dragons flying around

Thomas M

Number 1 fetish for girls is ____.

jdoggivjc

10+ months of talking about the **** thing (choose your 4-letter word... the "r" one, the "s" word, they both apply) Paul did to Lillia in years past (and yes, it WAS rape, and the LN was very specific in making that clear), and the conversation is highly warranted... but I'm going to comment on something else, because I can't believe it hasn't been brought up once in over 100 posts. That sword fight between Paul and Rudeus at the end of the episode - despite the fact that Rudy lost that fight to Paul and rather quickly, he actually showed his father up in that fight. In this world, mages are at such an extreme disadvantage to swordsmen and women that Rudy never stood a chance at winning - however, Rudy made Paul take 4 steps to land that blow, and that is an embarrassment for Paul because it should have taken him 1, maybe 2 at most, depending on distance - especially because of the differences in age, size, and talent level. It was such a humiliation that, in the LN, after Ghislaine left with Rudy, Zenith and Lillia endlessly and mercilessly mocked Paul for his performance in that fight.