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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 152: The Excommunication of Vince Ingenito (Video) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-01-04 17:01:04
Edited:
2022-01-11 16:59:22
Imported:
2022-01

Content

For your viewing pleasure.

Files

The Excommunication of Vince Ingenito | Sacred Symbols+ Episode 152

There was a time when IGN's Vince Ingenito was one of mainstream gaming media's foremost fighting game experts, critics, and writers. Then, in late 2017, he lost it all almost as quickly as he earned it. And, no, you haven't heard from him since. That's because this is Vince's first public appearance since he was "MeToo'd," losing his job and his reputation in the process. What happened? Where has Vince been? And, perhaps most importantly, did Vince deserve his excommunication? Did the punishment fit the crime? That, as always, is for you to determine.

Comments

Colin Stevens

Now all we need is to know wtf happened to Marty Sliva

RD_21

Him and Marty Sliva are the one I've been wanting to know about.

Liam Fagan

Great effort Colin, can't wait to listen.

DB Cooper

I wasn't really into the old IGN stuff back in the day but I always heard and still hear about Vince. This is going to be fascinating. I respect and appreciate that you keep doing interviews like this no matter what people's opinions are. Can't wait to listen!

LastStandMedia
>>74992258

Thank you! It's up to you guys to decide what you think about the subject and what they have to say.

Ben Haner

Can’t wait to listen, keep bringing the heat 🔥🔥

David Graham

You're willing to have the conversations many wouldn't. I respect that.

Joseph Marzola

Holy shit. Amazing, starting it now! Like wet buttcheeks covered in soap, blasting farts on the shower tiles: this is going to be so satisfying.

Piston Pants

First Filip now Vince. Who are some other gaming shitheads Colin can help rehabilitate image wise?

Anonymous

I obviously don't know the whole story but from what I gathered the whole situation with him and Kallie i think was just a little overblown and probably not really a big deal in the grand scheme. Sure, he probably came off a little creepy or whatever but shit like that happens all the time, It didn't need to be so overblown. Again, I could be wrong. No one knows what happened except those two.

Anonymous

We don't really know what happened with IGN's HR. So without knowing that, I guess it's hard to really make any judgments. But assuming they aren't corrupt or sexist, then their ruling determined that Vince wasn't a predator and it seemed to be a misunderstanding (ie. two employees had a friendly relationship that probably went out of the bounds of professional behavior. One of those employees then misread how close they were, and made comments he didn't thnk she would find offensive). What makes this hard to talk about though, is that even me writing this comment - i feel like a piece of s**t. Like im defending abuse. But I do think it's important that we differentiate the severity of someone's actions, and take in the context of the situation. Because it makes a big difference. Its the difference between Vince being an active predator who purposely harassed her for months, vs a man who made horrible comments that he thought his friend wouldn't be offended by. The two scenarios are drastically different. There is no excuse for Vince's actions to be clear. I 100% think he did something wrong and was unprofessional. But I also think there are levels to everything in life (including abuse). I don't think Vince is Harvey Weinstein for instance. And that does matter because it's the difference between whether someone should have a second chance or be given a chance to change.

LastStandMedia
>>74995187

I agree with much of what you said here, but particularly on one of your final points. There simply has to be a gradient of offense. It's insane that Vince is next to that Nassar guy on Vox's website portal. That's nuts.

Anonymous

You're really killing it out here with the interviews. Thanks for making my workday that much better, cheers!

Joseph Baker

Loving the interviews. They are so damn good. I really like the humand fund shirt. I have the same one.

Owen

One thing I find interesting is his continuing to mention Kallie (spelling?) being in his thoughts post incident, post laying off, post moving away from California. He must have really thought differently of that relationship than she did. -- I'm glad he acknowledges that her feelings are valid. Remorse is something tough to feel especially if you're not sure what it is you did. In relation to your last interview with Filip, I never really heard remorse... he just said he understood plagiarism now...

MostlyCharlie

This probably isn’t healthy, but I have a morbid curiosity to see how the wokesters in games media are going to respond to this without actually listening to it.

Martin

Really interesting interview, it's obvious he did something beyond what he himself thinks (whether he knows it or not) and it's tough to make any judgements only hearing his side. I will echo the sentiment that he doesn't deserve to be spoken of in the same breath as the Weinsteins of this world though.

james glenn roten

Good episode Colin. I sense said individual has caused a few problems amongst multiple outlets..

PSN: Kalil86

It was good to here his side, I vaguely remember this… and it seems his exile was unjust. Even though he loves and misses working in the industry, he should stay clear of it when the majority of people will shun you at the drop of a dime and place judgement when the facts aren’t fully out.

Nemesis Enforcer

Great discussion. no one else is doing this.

Card Captor Corey

This is way better than Filip Miucin. Vince seems contrite and I appreciate that. I'd love for Colin and others let him be on shows when he has a unique take. He didn't deserve the excommunication he got.

Anonymous

What a way to kick of the year. You really understand what your audience wants and you deliver more than anybody else ever could. Great episode to listen to.

Kenneth Oms

This was a great episode Col. I know Vince said he didn’t want pity or anything like that, but the not knowing part kills me. People should be given the chance to atone for their mistakes or misunderstandings, and it crushes me that he lost a solid gig as a games consultant. Maybe I’m just too much of a softie, but I want to believe that people can repent for what they’ve done without losing the ability to put food on the table for their family.

Anonymous

Great episode. I think a lot of people have this balancing act that they need to do. On one hand we don’t ever want to give people that abuse others cover or rehabilitation. On the other, I do feel it’s useful to understand the other side, the accused. I think it can be instructive, and something that we can apply to our own lives when we interact with others. Thanks Colin for taking on difficult topics.

Anonymous

Great interview Colin. Vince always seemed like a pretty nice dude, so it was a surprise when all this came out originally. Loved to hear his side of things but I feel we'll never truly know the full story.

Miky Sh

Great episode Colin.

Anonymous

This was a great episode but tough to watch. Vince making excuses for and trying to understand the actions of his “accuser” who seems to have ruined his life for no substantial reason was ludicrous. The way Vince concluded the conversation made my eyes roll to the back of my head as well. Regardless, wish him the best in his future endeavors. Next up, Marty Sliva. Whatever happened to that dude? Always thought he was “me too’d” by Alana Pierce but I’ll leave it to detective Moriarty to get to the bottom of it 😎

Anonymous

One of the biggest takeaways I got from this is how little room our society has for forgiveness now and it really depresses me. Vince is clearly incredibly remorseful for what he did or didn’t do, but that doesn’t seem to matter to those who did the ousting. Even if Vince didn’t do the show to solicit pity, he still has it from me. What a horribly overblown situation that destroyed a person’s livelihood.

Anonymous

Colin didnt Vince rag on you when the KF thing happened? I'm just gonna watch it now but nice for taking him on anyways.

Anonymous

Great episode Colin. I really feel for Vince. He was in a tough spot and you helped him get his voice out there. Would love to see him on some future LSM podcasts. From his side the accusations seemed like a nothing burger and if that is all that he did, HR did not need to be involved. He is a better man than me, because I would have gone scorched earth on my accuser to clear my name.

Nemesis Enforcer

Eh if he was typing that stuff to a Co worker that is always bad and you would likely get fired.

Anonymous

In this instance I don’t think the punishment fit the crime.

Matthew Foley

I’ve always liked Vince. I hope he can make somewhat of a return, maybe through Last Stand, to the games industry. The punishment did not fit the crime in this instance. What he did in my eyes was misunderstand the boundaries of a friendship and it happened to be with someone who was clearly mentally unstable (not meaning to appear as a jerk) and she perceived his actions as being anxiety inducing and harassing but the intent was never taken into consideration. The worst was assumed of Vince and he was never given a shot to get a word in when the mob decided to cancel him. His own progressive/feminist views seem to be at odds with what would have been best for him. I can’t imagine going through that internal struggle was easy. I feel bad for Vince I really hope he can be redeemed in some way. This was a wonderful interview great job Colin!

Anonymous

That was fantastic piece of content that really got me thinking Colin. Between this and the Filip Miucin videos you are doing fantastic work with very sensitive and thought provoking subjects. Thank you

Jeffrey Willingham

Wow. I don’t mean to sound rude but assuming everything stated is true, it would seem to me this guy got screwed out of a career he loved and is relegated to now working as a barista in bum fuck Wisconsin. He may have came off a bit creepy but Jesus Christ the poor bastard can’t even work in the field anymore. He mentions not wanting to talk about it for fear of people he ideologically opposes siding with him, but you need to have the burden of proof. IGN didn’t find anything during their investigation so what’s there to talk about? I understand being sympathetic to someone’s feelings but not when it’s cost you so much. Sorry for the language.

Neal S

Great interview.

Duncan Leishman

Great interview Colin. I really hope Kallie is curious enough to have a listen and think deeply about how this all went down and whether it was worth potentially ruining a man's life over.

Brian Comstock

Great interview Colin! I find his closing comments absolutely ridiculous. Not defending yourself because it somehow goes against your “feminist” views is mind blowing to me. Such a strange man. I’ve always kinda guessed that cancel culture and the far left would start to cannibalize themselves, and this seems like it was a good example of that.

Marcos Aquino Pimentel

Great episode as always!, only the mistery of Marty Sliva remains…

LastStandMedia
>>74997595

I agree; it's important to acknowledge the other person, and realize that the gray in between is where the problem could lay.

LastStandMedia
>>74999496

I'd love to hear Kallie's 'side,' but as I said, I don't think she would want to hear from me.

LastStandMedia
>>75000876

Should the story square with what we know thusfar, I feel bad for him. How can some mistakes define a man forever? How is that just? It's nuts.

Anonymous

Not speaking on Vince specifically, but I'm skeptical why those who prop up the woke mob will tear someone like Colin down for benign differences in opinion when they don't need him, but when they do, they'll give an interview. I'm sure Colin requested it, and I think it was good of him to do so. Vince still seems bought in to what tore him down, so that's either respectable or insane. Good luck to him, either way.

Anonymous

Great show and listen. Love these interviews that no one else will touch. Colin always bringing interesting content

Walker Simmons

This is such a sad story. It seems like even after all of this Vince is still trying to protect the feelings of what he thought to be a close friend. To me that really shows what type of person he is. If this happened to me I can't say that I would be so kind

MostlyCharlie

I’m just gonna come right out and say it: I’ve never seen a better example of a woke male feminist. She destroyed his chance at having a meaningful career in something that he clearly loves all because she couldn’t resist the social clout that she stood to gain from the blue checkmark brigade; and here he is going on and on about her feelings and her trauma and doesn’t stand up for himself. I truly hope he finds his way back into the industry, but he’s got some serious self-actualization shit to work out. And I say that as someone who used to feel very insecure and… well… let’s just say that the way he described himself in this interview is how I used to see myself back in high school. So I know exactly where he’s coming from.

Anonymous

Great interview Colin! Although many have already discussed this, I am saddened that these accusations have driven Vince to sink into self-flagellation over self-preservation. Without knowing the other ‘side’, I hope this provides Vince not only an opportunity for employment but also the opportunity to find some mental balance moving forward.

Anthony_Vazquez

All i can say is he deserves to be in the industry and who ever hire’s him is making the company better.

Greg Mocha

I hope he gets a chance if he wants it. Not many people would have the maturity he showed in this interview. It's good he found something. I hope he can share his story in other places so folks can be more understanding of the complexity of these issues.

Joseph Losinno

Excellent interview. For long time listeners of games media this stuff is fascinating. Respects the audience by giving us a different view.

Anonymous

Enjoyed the interview, Colin. Thought you did a great job setting up the timeline and giving him room to share his words. While I agree with the sentiment of letting the audience taking what they will from it - it’s challenging to do that while knowing there is some perspective from Kallie we still may not be getting. I don’t believe it was her fault that Vox put together a lazy article with Vince’s name wrongly included - but it does seem clear that professional boundaries were crossed. Nobody should have to put up with a situation they are uncomfortable with in the workplace.

Patrick Pruitt

Just finished the episode and when you asked Vince what he wanted to do now, his response got me thinking: have you ever considered a Last Stand review type show? Even dropping one in depth, maybe 15-20 minute game review as a separate show every week might be a good addition to the line up. Just a thought!

Mason M

I’ve never seen this Vox page until now, it’s ridiculous. It’s so frustrating to know there are people there with way less severe accusations than others all lumped into one. If we just consider Kallie’s posts about it, it’s still not at the same severity as what the people on that page did. I hope you have him back for something in the future.

Tyler Kaminski

Colin, first time replying to one of these videos and I have loved all of your interviews, but this one was by far my favorite. I love the redemption arcs, and unlike Phillip, this one felt authentic. If you feel good in any way about this situation, I would suggest bringing him back occasionally for a spoilercast or something. Could be interesting, but as you said in the video, everyone will react to the story differently. I found his situation understandable, and grossly overplayed by the media. Keep up the excellent content!

Anonymous

This is an example of why I don't trust anyone in the gaming industry with small exception. They ruined a perfectly nice guys life. Plus similar to colin, they turned their back on him because they have no backbone, and only want to protect themselves. Honestly if it wasn't for colin, I probably wouldn't follow this industry. To many drama queens.

OTTAPPS

Cracking episode again. Colin, you and the LSM crew continue stride further and further ahead of the competition. It's embarrassing how you guys consistently show the rest up. Great work.

Anonymous

I looked at the tweets and then the interview. I can't understand this situation for the life of me. They were colleagues who were friends. One of them apparently crossed a "line". Then the matter is clarified and concluded in person and at the company anyway, only to become public a long time later. There is something wrong here, isn't there? Like, why is he so okay with this situation when nothing actually happened. At 25 years of age, I'm apparently part of an older generation where unpleasant things are clarified or ended among friends. Period. Why do you have to damage a public person so much when "only" feelings were hurt. But this is only my limited opinion about this based on the interview and the tweets. Like Filip, I don't find Vince particularly convincing or authentic. Thank you for letting me form my opinion, Colin.

Anonymous

Love this really liked vince alot when he was at Ign glad to just hear from him again. Good episode as always LSM crew 💯💯

Your Boi Nicky V

I don't think Vince did too much wrong, those comments could be inappropriate depending on the context but nothing to ruin a career. I think Kallie Plagge loves to play the victim based on her claiming that Colin tweeting the 'Too Much Water Meme' was directing harassment towards here. Fantastic content anyway Colin, thanks a lot.

Anonymous

Another great interview, this whole situation just doesn't fit though for me. I couldn't be so accepting if I was in his shoes. From his accounts it seemed so overblown, out of the ordinary and if they were having close intimate friendly conversations why wouldn't she say that to him before going straight to HR about being uncomfortable. It all just stinks to me. And a guys life has been ruin / made much more difficult for really very very little. Now onto Marty

Jared
>>75022683

I think he had a long time to deal and reflect on this whole ordeal, but you have to at some point accept your situation and move on. I'm glad he has found his peace for this but I agree, he by no means deserved what he got, unfortunately that is often how life goes.

Jared

It was great to hear from Vince, I remember him from the old podcast Beyond days (back when it was still good). All I'm going to say is that the punishment definitely did not fit the crime in the case. As someone who also finds it much easier to make friends with woman rather than men I can relate to to his feelings. My guess is there was more going on for Kallie and her situation than meets the eye. But anyways, glad Vince has found his peace on the matter and I do hope he makes it back into the gaming world, we desperately need more people like him.

Anonymous

After listening to the podcast it seems like Vince has a great heart, but doesn’t know how to stand up for himself. It is inexcusable to have so many opportunities taken away from you over something that is still so unbelievably vague. I work with all women and the thought of this situation scares the shit out of me. Great podcast Colin :)

Anonymous

Well done on the excellent interview. While I’d imagine the decision to do this interview was primarily a business one, I think it serves a much more significant purpose. Western popular culture no longer has any room for repentance, growth, forgiveness, or grace. We are, by the current standard, completely incapable of change. Who we previously were is who we will be forever. The fact that Vince being given a forum will likely be seen as controversial by some is proof of that. That’s a void that an interview like this - whether intentional or otherwise - goes some distance towards filling. At almost 40, I can already think back on many things I’ve said or done that I very strongly regret. Some of the things I’m particularly ashamed of sometimes feel like they’ll haunt me forever. I’d imagine the vast majority of us feel similarly. But none of those things have resulted in the vast majority of us being permanently, publicly, or professionally ostracized. My wife and I just celebrated our 15th anniversary. Some (perhaps most!) of those mistakes are things that have impacted my wife or our children in some way. I’m incredibly grateful that I’m not endlessly being judged and punished for those mistakes. To the contrary - and most importantly - while I’ve learned a great deal from the consequences of those actions, it’s asking for forgiveness, being given the opportunity for growth, and seeking to live up to the grace I’ve been shown that has taught me infinitely more. Whether it’s the designed purpose or not, it’s great to see LSM helping to bring some of that back in a public forum with an interview like this.

Anonymous

Great interview. I remember when this happened and assuming everything he said is on the up and up the punishment definitely didn’t fit the crime. What’s more is I remember Fran Mirabella II allegedly saying some rude sexist comments to coworker and nothing came of it. He apparently apologized and they discussed it like adults and that was the end. Seems like a conversation could have helped in Vince’s case as well. I guess destroying his life was easier? I’d really like to hear her side of the story.

Anonymous

Great interview! While I feel bad for Vince, he should have had more self awareness. Kallie is obviously very sensitive; I barely know anything about her but have picked that up by just casually following ign/game media over the last 20+ years. Read the room and don’t talk about your sex life to the girl who’s always on the verge of having a panic attack. Social intelligence.

LastStandMedia
>>75021470

It's hard to understand why someone would want to obliterate another person's life, which is why it's reasonable for people to assume there's gradient, and obviously a difference of opinion full-stop.

LastStandMedia
>>75025906

I don't make any decisions 'primarily' in the name of business. In fact, it could be argued that doing this episode was a massive risk to my business. But we will have the hard conversations. That's what we do.

Will Hahn

This was really great stuff. Vince seems like a nice guy, he just got caught in a very, very sticky situation. I don’t really know if you would do this, but it would be nice to see him on LSM in the future, maybe for another SS+ episode or some review discussion of some sorts.

brody_low

This was a fascinating interview. Colin, you are changing the games industry with every episode. There's simply no other place where conversations like this are being had. I feel like Vince is way too hard on himself and his beliefs make him feel like its wrong to defend himself when he has every right to. He even says "If I came out and defended myself the only people that would support me are those I've been fervently fighting against politically." He's essentially been declawed as a man. He no longer has the ability to hunt and provide like he used to and his ideology prevents him from trying to take that mojo back. So now his wife is the bread winner as he sits in self-loathing. Very sad!! But I appreciate his genuineness and empathetic soul. Definitely a heartbreaking story. Nobody wins.

Anonymous

Hey Colin, you did an excellent job with this interview. I really appreciated that you let him speak his mind, and I commend you because I wouldn’t have been able to not interrupt him when he kept defending her. Kallie literally ruined his life, and yes, he did something wrong, but nothing worth ruining a life over. I don’t understand how he still has that much sympathy for her, but I guess that tells you the type of guy that he is. Anyway, these type of conversations are really important and I’m glad that LSM can be the place to have them.

Josh Gamez

This was some interesting stuff. While I honestly don't remember the details of this, but was familiar with the work of both Vince and Kallie (this must've all went down when I went on one of the periodic social media detox runs I find myself doing every 2-3 months lol), I am glad he's seemingly found a way to move on, about as good as anyone can from what just seemed like an unfortunate crossing of signals between all parties involved.

Peter Montaño

I know we don’t have all the facts and are limited to Vince’s words, the result of IGNs investigation, and the fallout of this situation. So I’m just gonna share what I reasoned after hearing Vince and observing his story. Considering how Colin commented on IGNs diligence as a company, I can believe IGN most likely did not mishandle the investigation. If that’s the case, it is *extremely* questionable that this girl would “out” Vince during Me Too an entire year later for something that was already settled internally. I found myself questioning why Vince still displays good faith towards this girl, talking about how she did what she thought she needed to do because perhaps she didn’t get the justice she deserved. The thing is, what justice is there to be found in an inappropriate relationship in the workplace where it was determined both parties were at fault? Obviously this indicates Vince wasn’t malicious or predatory in nature. To me this looks like someone who wanted a specific outcome instead of a solution, didn’t get it, was even held accountable to some extent, and then capitalized off of a situation to get what they originally desired. It’s a bit painful to hear Vince almost excuse what has happened to him because he honestly appears to lack fundamental confidence in who he is as a person. Regardless, this was a great interview. Fantastic work, Colin.

Alex Perkins

Great interview, my man! I really enjoyed this one

Anonymous

Really engaging conversation. Keep up the great work it’s much appreciated!

Anonymous

Another great interview. I was never the biggest fan of Vince at IGN but seems like he, if everything stated can be believed, was vilified for rather minor misdeeds that could have remedied by education and a more open HR department stating to him what exactly he did that was wrong. Again, if he can be believed, the unwanted sexual advancements stopped once he was told to stop. I don't think that constitutes sexual harassment. Creepy and inappropriate? Yes. Reason to be outcast? No. That said, I would love to see him back on, as a freelancer, where it could work like review/spoiler casts of games that fit his style and game choices. Keep up asking the questions and going places traditional games media refuses to go.

Jake Watson

This whole thing sounds like it could have been avoided if an adult conversation was had at some point. Both parties feeling suffocated by social pressure made this impossible. Great interview though. I'm ashamed to say that I just assumed that he was a creep at the time and he got what was coming. Thank you for giving him a voice.

James

Idk man, he keeps asking himself what he did and literally his comments that he claims 100% to her are the reason she felt that way period stop, if he doesn't understand that by now he probably never will. Should it have been escalated to the degree it got? probably not, but you can't speak to a co-worker 15 years your junior like he did. Do I think this all could have been avoided? yes, she should have been straight up from the jump and said do not speak to me this way and I believe this wouldn't have been an issue. Although I get it he was a person with power and she prob didn't know how to react, just unfortunate situation all around that could have been avoided. I just hope in the future people can learn form stories like this on both ends.

Derek Alcott

Vince is right that Returnal is GOTY. Listening to this while playing it. Can't beat this last damn biome.

Ben

Is this episode gonna hit YouTube ever?

Rob Aitken

I may be on that "other side" Vince talked about Politically but I enjoyed this episode as I have seen this play out in my NYC Architecture firm a few times. -Young men entering the American work force, there was a massive Red Flag Vince brought up at the start, a Woman with a Gender Studies degree, if you never interacted with them on campus they were insufferable then and being out in the workforce has not mellowed it. keep back!!. When you are armed with the hammer of that mind set every issue is a nail. My firm hired 5 women, 4 of them has minors in gender or womens relations, the fifth, structural engineering and actual useful skill, all 4 took some form of offense about male coworkers or male clients and quit with complaint, the fifth is doing fantastically well just made associate and still doesn't understand what the problem was with those 4. I don't know what form of double track thought process you need to have to defend the politically ideology that financially destroyed you Vince but my man you need to stand up for yourself, that last 10 minutes was some serious Stockholm syndrome. Colin - fantastic work as always

Anonymous

This is very raw, very honest, and so so refreshing. Had no idea this had happened thanks both for bringing this conversation to us.

Anonymous

Without hearing her story it seems fairly obvious that on that day at 2016 E3, she had had a bad night previously, and when Vince touched her shoulder and said "do you need to get outta here" could have easily been heard incorrectly as "Do you wanna get outta here" We don't know how loud it was in there, we don't know his facial expression, we don't know what had happened to her the night before. Vince today describes his intent with that comment, but he never fully expressed to her at the time he thought she might be having a panic attack. Words get misheard and people hold grudges for life... It wouldn't ve the first time the answer was just that simple.

Samuel Mills

Vince may disagree, but now having heard his side of things, I don't think he completely deserved to be booted from the industry. You can acknowledge someone's feelings as valid, but you can't let them control your life after you've apologized and tried to make it right. Just my opinion though. Wish him all the best! Thanks for doing the interview.

Anonymous

Great interview. I always liked when Vince came on Beyond back in the day. Without getting the other side it’s hard to give a definitive answer as to whether or not the excommunication was just. Having said that… that fact that he’s lumped in with the likes of Weinstein and Nassar is beyond absurd.

Joseph La Russa

Great interview, Colin. I saw a response above that you don't think Kallie would be interested in hearing from you, but would you consider reaching out? I think your audience would love (I certainly would) to hear from her after we heard from him. Open discussion from both sides is something this topic lacks in the corporate world.

Cory Towler

Raw, honest, and he took ownership for what happened, all while keeping her in mind. Personally I see him being a victim as much as she was. Hes got a great heart, more people need to hear his side of the story. I hate how she was uncomfortable by what he may of done or said all the best to Kallie and Vince. It may not mean much but I'm a fan of Vince. Anyone who is as raw and understanding as Vince is has my support. We all make mistakes, even if we are unaware that mistakes are being made.

warren chue

Man, this cautionary tale... thank you, Colin and Vince. this excom thing is scary

BettyAnn Moriarty
>>75030816

Peter, you e said it all for me. Thank you. Colin, I appreciate you taking the initiative to do this and I appreciate Vince agreeing to speak about this too. It took courage, for both of you, since I’m pretty sure that this is and will most likely remain, very controversial.

Anonymous

Great episode. Vince is neither a saint and far from being the devil. He is clean as far as any reasonable person can see. I would love to get his input regarding EVO and fighting games again. Hopefully it can be done under Last Stand Media.

Petre Cismigiu

This was a fascinating interview and I'm really glad you made it happen, Colin. It educated me more on his situation and now I can make my own decision regarding Vince. Personally I think it's egregious what happened to him. He lost his dream job, his ability to work in the industry, and gained a horrible reputation for just mishandling a situation at work with a woman he was friends with. He didn't stalk her, he didn't abuse her, they were friends. I've had friends who made me feel like shit sometimes. I sometimes made my friends feel like shit without intent. He did not deserve those harsh consequences at all, in my opinion at least. I would genuinely like to see him guest on Defining Duke or maybe even Sacred Symbols, a spoilercast, anything just to talk about games. I would imagine it would mean the world to him just to be in that position again even if only for a couple of hours.

Carson Smith

Vince's far left ideology prevents him from having self respect for himself as a man in his situation. A woman essentially ruined him for a shoulder touch and somewhat suggestive language that was consensual. This is unacceptable. Kally needed to resolve this internally with Vince and not dump her perceived harassment all over the internet. She refused to talk to Vince at all!?!?!?! She probably talked with her leftist girlfriends and they all convinced her that Vince was absolute scum. Vince truly is stuck between a rock and leftist place on this issue for sure. If you want a quick red pill Vince, just take your situation and replace yourself with a physically attractive man. This would have never happened to Chad. Women be that way.

Joey
>>75059126

This post is full of baseless assumptions and misogynistic tendencies.

Keith Mc Carthy

Colin is the fucking man. No-one else is doing these kind of interviews in the gaming industry. Love this stuff, great job 👍🏻

Kc Wright

Sounds like Vince got railroaded that's a shame he was really good doing the game stuff

Jacek Debowski

One thing that bugs me is him being such a "I'm-so-sorry" kind of guy - how come he was understood by a female coworker as an abusive person. It just feels off. My guess is either he behaved differently at work towards his juniors (which wouldn't be the first) or Kally was in a really bad place, interpreting such a mild person the way she did. Anyway, while this discrepancy was driving me insane, I still really enjoyed the interview. Great work Colin for picking up these less popular conversation partners. I hope to see more of these in 2022!

Anonymous

This was a great interview. Interesting to hear his perspective on the situation. I would definitely like to hear him back as a guest on any podcast for last stand.

Michael (ObjoGaming)

He might be hard to get but I'd like to see one of these with Nick Robinson. He's way bigger and more successful now than he was when he "canceled," so it would be nice to get that perspective. I doubt he'd do it though since he seems to want to sweep his situation under the rug.

Anonymous

Man, this is a tough conversation to listen to. But thank you Colin for providing a platform for these type of discussions!

Matthew Cooper

I have a lot of thoughts, too much to type it all out. Just one thing that really bothered me; towards the end Vince says he didn't fight for himself more because he would find allies in those he disagreed with politically. There is just so much wrong with that. It's not even like it's radically right wing to think that a woman would lie or be mistaken. I have no other context for this situation and didn't even know anything about it before hearing this conversation, but if that's a big reason why Vince didn't fight for himself more, frankly he kind of deserves what's happened. He had a situation where his beliefs collided with reality and instead of adapting his beliefs to reality he chose to deny reality and cling to his beliefs.

LastStandMedia
>>75035874

It seems like there's little doubt he did anything that should have resulted in his prompt excommunication.

LastStandMedia
>>75053096

I honestly don't think me reaching out to her is a good idea. 99% of the time, I already would have. But I guarantee you, she doesn't want to talk to me, and I respect that. She's made her ire (as weird as it is, because I don't know her from a hole in the wall, frankly) well-known.

LastStandMedia
>>75054678

I don't think there's any doubt that he's a victim in his own way. A victim of something different, perhaps.

LastStandMedia
>>75057460

It's a horrible misunderstanding, and maybe shows a totally different dynamic of power that's not often considered.

LastStandMedia
>>75065768

Knowing Vince as I did, it just doesn't comport with him, which is why I feel like there are crossed wires and not sinister and ill-intent.

Cameron

It seems as if he was in a particular atmosphere with a particular group of people who are so hypersensitive and quick to jump the gun on these issues that he was ultimately crushed personally and professionally. It’s just the reality of the world we live in.

Anonymous

He is a victim of the ideology he holds dear. HR found both at fault but only one gets to continue to have a career.

Bruce McClain

Loved the interview, Colin. I was never a big fan of Vince but it is very sad to me that his career was destroyed over a few off color comments. Why did she immediately run to HR when it seems like a simple boundary defining conversation with Vince would’ve solved the problem? Maybe I’m wrong and we obviously haven’t heard her response to this interview (and likely never will) but he seems like a guy who would’ve backed off immediately if given the opportunity to do so.

Anonymous

I could listen to you interview anyone. Mature, informative conversations. Awesome work LSM crew!

Anonymous

That was a great interview. I don't think I have ever heard someone in this situation speaking from the left which was interesting. Thou he did seem to be pretzeling himself in order to not make his politics look bad. I would like to see him more in the future.

Anonymous

Great interview as always, Colin! Keep them coming.👍🏻

Anonymous

long time Patron, first time comment (I think?). had to get in on the convo. saw a few comments and I agree... def would be down to have Vince on a SS+ episode or a sub when someone is out. enjoy the old IGN peeps getting some love. remember him on Beyond here and there. keep killin' it with the interviews, Colin!

Jon Barnett

This is the first piece of LSM content that made me feel uncomfortable, although I think that's a good thing in the long run. It's good to have the difficult conversations. Like others have said, I think it's really important that we hear the other side. Sad that it probably won't happen though. "There's your side, their side, and then there's the truth".

Anonymous

This is an incredible podcast Colin, amazing work. When I saw this on the feed my jaw dropped like it did when David Jaffe asked you about Greg and you answered. I've been following you since Beyond and I think that interview with Jaffe changed something in you that has led to an incredibly positive sort of growth. This interview is open, you let him say what he wanted to say, and you didn't try to control his message at all. Just so genuine. Well done, excited for the future. Keep it up, Water Man.

Captain Canada
>>75108980

We did hear the other side though, there was ad nauseam coverage of KP's claims and perspectives after the fact. She did multiple interviews regarding this incident, as well as her experiences at IGN. Just do a quick Google of either of their names, the coverage is entirely one-sided.

Captain Canada

Vince seems like a really genuine guy who misread a friendship with someone from a different generation, and didn't deserve what happened. I have to say though, I disagree with the "all feelings are valid" concept. People can feel whatever they'd like, but that doesn't dictate reality.

Anonymous

I guess I don't understand corporate speak well but if both where found at fault and he did not get fired from IGN over it. How could the consulting company see this as some hardline on not hiring him. It sound like no one even know who this consulting company is outside of gaming. Is it being brought up on Twitter a year later a big deal if it was already dealt with at the time.

Sam

Fuck, this was an intesne conversation. Very raw and uncomfortable. Thank you Colin for doing this. There is so much going on here. The big word that stands out to me is shame. Vince seems, in my opinion, so full of shame about his own sexuality. There are some key points here and I'm reading between the lines 1. He has mostly had close relationships with women and not with men. I think when this is the case the man generally wants these friendships to become something more, but will settle for the friendship because they are too shy. At the same time he doesn't fit in with confident men who are unashamed of themselves, because to him they represent a part of himself that he has rejected. The fact that he was clearly upset that Kallie was more sexually banterous with other guys and not him make me think he definitely had repressed desires towards her. Of course, seeing as he had a girlfriend you can't act on the desires, but I think this is the classic case of repression vs restraint. 2. The fact that his main reaction when he found out about the accusation was panic and not anger, and his refusal to say that might have been being misleading or misinterpreting the situation, shows that he felt like he had been found out about something he was ashamed about, rather than falsely accused. 3. His political stance clearly indicates that he sees men as predators and women as victims. Of course he doesn't want his life ruined but to me he has clearly been punishing himself for being attracted to her in the first place. I think it is this shame of sexuality that makes women uncomfortable around men a lot of time. People like Vince aren't able to express their sexuality in a healthy way so it gets bottled up, and this makes women feel unsafe. I think it's also very clear that Kallie has probably had some bad experiences with men in the past and will tend to see herself as victim and deny any personal responsibility with these things. I think this situation is really sad on all levels. I think Vince's political affiliation is really stopping him from becoming the man he could be, someone with all parts of himself integrated. As he has a clearly commited wife and son, I really hope he does the work on himself he needs to as he has a family to look after. Again I'm so glad you did this interview - it was absolutely fascinating. And like with Filip Miucin, I do hope to hear your thoughts about this after some reflection.

Jordan Knepp

This was perfect, Colin. You have built something truly special and I’m here for every single part of it. This was absolutely fascinating, as was Filipino Miucin. Love this content and honestly all your content. Much love. GO CANES

Ren Quin

Why doesn’t Vince start up his own YouTube channel/business doing some of the things he did at ign, reviews and such. The whole controversy didn’t stop Phillip from giving up his dreams despite being seen now as untrustworthy but Vinces allegations are finicky at best with little merit behind it. I think he can do pretty decent for himself if he decided to go back but do things his way. Regardless great interview. It was nice seeing an old face again and that he’s mostly ok. <3

Nicole Humphrey

I think this was an interesting listen. Thanks for providing some insights into this very complex situation. Not trying to take anything away from Vince, but you both place a lot of weight on IGN’s findings but given those in charge at the time (I believe he was later fired for handling the situation poorly) and society’s systemic issues around sexism, I’m not sure it’s justified to give so much credit to HR’s findings here. It could be the case that, as is often, they took the route of victim blaming and found something like how she dressed or looked that “provoked Vince”. It’s a societal issue that ppl find reasons to blame women for the harassment that happens to them. Of course, that may not be the case here, but there’s no way to be sure. Wish that was something that had been considered on the podcast.

Anonymous
>>75125891

He seems to indicate that he knows he did something wrong but he does not seem to know what that thing is. And for some reason IGN HR refused to say what it was

Jordan Knepp
>>75133189

I would think the issue is that people don’t know the whole story, or even what we know now and would go for his throat wirh the little knowledge they have. I thought the same as you towards the end of the podcast but then realized how ruthless people on the internet are. Most don’t even care about facts they just want something/someone to hate. It’s stupid.

Liam Mcnulty

I'll be honest, I don't believe the vast majority of "Me Too" accusations, unless it's backed up with evidence. Plus Khallie has pronouns in her bio, so I instantly disregard all her accusations😂 from hearing his story, and how clearly shook up he is from it all, its obvious to me that she's a piece of work. She uses other people ss a punching bag for her own mental health issues. He's also way too charitable to her, she did a lot of emotional damage to this man and he still blame himself. Gaslighting. His willingness to be a martyr for the feminist and progressive movement is crazy to me. If modern feminism and progressivism (regressive) requires you to take a hit to make a sociopathic liar like Kellie succeed because of her gender then I don't have much respect or sympathy for you. Stand up for yourself. Progressive politics does more damage than good, demonstrably so. This man suffers from Stockholm syndrome lol. I love this content from you, Colin, it's good to hear the other side... Any chance you could tell us the story about the man who was let go from IGN that was potentially going to react violently? I'm curious now!

Anonymous

This is stellar content. I can’t help but feel a little bit of anger for Vince. We have all been awkward or too forward with someone unknowingly… to equate that with Harvey freaking Weinstein like vox insinuated; is ludicrous at best. I’m fine that he’s not at ign … but damn he should still be able to consult. Hopefully this interview helps him get a foot in the door.

Ryan Hayman

This was a fascinating interview. As always, thank you.

LastStandMedia
>>75124550

I agree with the premise, but I think the effect stops at the edge of one person and the beginning of another, if that makes sense.

LastStandMedia
>>75125567

Being MeToo'd, fairly or unfairly, means Vince was toxic. I get their decision, as shitty as it is.

LastStandMedia
>>75133524

That's a fair response. I'm of the mind that the company had a lot to lose by not making the right choice. Unfortunately, it's unknowable.

Justin Credible

Colin, this is why you’re the GOAT! Because of you I now have a better understanding of this whole situation. Of course it’s only his side, but his voice deserved to be heard. For me, Vince made some inappropriate comments to his co worker who he thought he was close with. That’s it. There’s nothing about this story that says anything beyond that, so he definitely deserves a second chance in the industry. Life in general. Nobody’s life should be completely ruined because of that. That’s like getting years of prison for stealing a pack a gum from the gas station. He has over served his time and punishment for this. Owns up to it. Apologize. Also, he made improvements to be better. We can’t live in a world without forgiveness. Track records should matter as well. If this is the only incident he has ever done in his entire life, then that should also be considered too.

Anonymous

He made some mistakes but both were at fault here... I think he deserves another chance in the industry. I'd love to get him on as a special guest once in a while to talk games. Please make this happen 🙏

Nicholas Coso

Such a great episode. I love these interviews you’ve been getting!

LastStandMedia
>>75185623

We can only work with what we're given to work with... and facilitating conversations to get that information is a goal of ours.

Diego Cruz (Abims0)

Most of us will make huge mistakes in our journey through this small slice of time we get. My hope is that people will learn how to forgive and understand that we can learn from our fuck ups. Thanks for the interview LSM team!

Anonymous

Damnnnn this is fucked. This could’ve happened to anyone! Wrong place wrong time with the wrong person.

easycompany

Pretty bizarre how he ended the the conversation. I really can't feel sorry for him when he doesn't even want to stick up for himself because he's worried about how unprogressive it will look. Boggles my mind.

Charles White

I loved this interview… I love the interview process… I actually feel sorry for Vince. Ign found them both inappropriate but Vince ended up being the one cancelled. I don’t think he deserves it. I believe he deserves to earn his way back into video games and I hope it finds him again. I think he’s been a really good sport about this and I respect the honor and class he’s showed… I hope I see more of him somewhere again

Daniel Wingy

This is really engaging interesting content and excellent work on the interview and the sensitive nature with which you handled it Colin. I can't imagine that we would hear a detailed account of Kalle's side of things on LSM. But I'd still like to hear her side. Even though Vince seems very genuine and kind hearted. I dunno... She seemed to drastically switch her feelings toward her, what seemed like, close friend - for what seems like almost no reason. Seems like there's more to the story. But at least you have let one party air their side, as I know you would Kalle if she requested. Regardless as always great content, of the type not seen anywhere else in gaming. Kudos.

Wayne Moss

Another amazing SS+ episode I think this is something Colin does better than anyone. He’s & LSM are happy to cover topics & talk to people that other places are not. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 great work again guys.

Shaun Sannerude

Another outstanding & interesting interview, great job Colin. It's pretty scary how somebody coming out against you on social media can completely end up destroying your career. Yes Vince may have said inappropriate things but it doesn't warrant him being completely out of an industry he loves, especially when we know there are other predators out there that have done a great deal worse!

Anonymous

Colin you really are an exceptional interviewer, I’m so continually impressed by that. As for Vince, this was a tough listen for sure, and I was satisfied to hear him at least approach *some* sense of reality and self-awareness towards the end. The repeated “I’ve always been a feminist/ally” stuff is such a red flag for people who use that (albeit likely subconsciously) to build close relationships with women that they end up pushing boundaries on. My read is that he was attracted to and interested in somebody he *knew* would not reciprocate, so defaulted to the “feminist” nice-guy-ally relationship, but didn’t have the restraint to avoid crossing lines and testing where he could. Not malicious, not evil or predatory - but misguided, a little selfish, and a lot naive to think it wouldn’t end badly. The situation is sad to be sure. With that, I’m also 100% with you agreeing that both IGN and the mystery consulting firm acted reasonably. People listening should be reminded of something very important: HR exists to protect *the company* not the employees! I do have one question that was on my mind that I hope you can address: did you reach out to Kallie prior to publishing this? Not necessarily for permission - she elected for the publicity initially - but maybe as a “heads up, this is coming”? It would be something else to be blindsided by a 90-minute, massively popular podcast where you’re the central figure. Not sure if that’s part of your process and wanted to know your thoughts in general on what licence journalists, hosts, podcasters etc have to discuss a 3rd party at length on sensitive topics. I understand the law regarding libel and slander, facts and fairness (you always come across as fair and objective) - I’m wondering about the social courtesy, and moral waters that you have to navigate. Thank you again for such wonderful (and increasingly diverse!) work you and the LSM crew do. Really excellent.

Faremis Sound

Thank you for (as always) conducting the interview in such delicate and professional way! I have been here from day 1 of CLS and been enjoying it immensely!

Tony Colton

Great interview that left me with this thought... Who did Vince tell about the "on the table" permanent job that the info found its way to Kallie? Seems like too much of a coincidence that just as that was about to happen she pulled it up on Twitter. Also a question for Colin if I may? I seem to remember you bringing up Vince as someone who celebrated your downfall when the shitstorm went down with you? Am I remembering this right? If so did you guys has this out? Thanks for the great insightful interviews. Keep em coming

Anonymous

😮‍💨😮‍💨

LastStandMedia
>>75278587

No, I didn't reach out to Kallie. I know she doesn't like me, and I felt like even seeing an email from me in her inbox would send her into a tizzy against me. It hasn't taken much in the past. I think that, by endeavoring to tell the other side of the story, I've done more than my part to get all of this into the open. But that's obviously my two cents. Thank you for your kind words and support.

mrigamer

Great interview Colin! Without truly knowing both of these people and taking part in the situation it’s obviously impossible to know the truth but watching hours of content both parties have put out Vince seems exactly the person I thought he would be. So if that’s the case what I’ve seen of Kallie to me she seems pretty stuck up and someone I wouldn’t trust. I mainly saw her on gamespot stuff and like I said I don’t know either person just an observation. I’d like to believe in karma and if this person did literally destroy someone else’s career just because she could my hopes are that it comes back 10 fold.

Anonymous

Sad to see how resigned he is with the situation. He did almost nothing wrong. Dude is a nerd who didn't know how to flirt or interact with a girl. So stupid that he accepts it for the sake of progressivism. No wonder he's a feminist. Great work as always, Colin. You do the best work out there.

Gavin Simmons

Wow I had forgotten about Vince. Great interview, sad story. I hope someday Vince can get back to the work he loves. Very unfortunate, sounds like Vince certainty messed up, but clearly had no ill intention, and wanted to make things right. I here this phrase now that "intention" doesn't matter, and I get that, and think it is partly true. Intention shouldn't matter in the sense that if you hurt someone, you should be apologetic even if you did not intend any harm (I am talking if you personally harm someone by your actions/words, not just random people being offended by what you say online). But intention should matter in reconciliation. If somebody clearly had no intention of causing harm, then that should count for something in forgiving and giving second chances.

Anonymous

This was difficult to listen to at times. I feel Vince has been treated unjustly. To have your career effectively ended over inappropriate comments such as those discussed is wrong. The IGN investigation outcome is interesting too. To be on a list of actual rapists is insanity. I do hope Vince finds a way back. Great interview Colin.

Anonymous

Always wondered about Vince and was quite fond of him back in the golden era of IGN. Thank you Colin for being fair, balanced and facilitative in regards to these difficult and nuanced conversations. I have had interactions with Vince and Kallie in the past and Vince always struck me as the more genuine person.

Jonny Sousa

Holy shit. In researching this story I just went down the rabbit hole of hate vs. Colin, and it is fucked up. Glad I don't have Twitter and that I just use reddit for random internet queries. Love you Colin, and all of LSM. Don't know how you've managed to take all of this on the chin for years, I would be an eldritch cynic by now.

Anonymous

Between the info dropped on Twitter, years ago and the info dropped in this interview, my guess is maybe there was a possibility of the flirtationship progressing beyond the work space. And when one party felt that wasn't going to happen, they decided to blow shit up. Just a theory, but damn this is an intriguing interview.

LastStandMedia
>>75434496

I hate to be so candid, but: I won. That's how I live with it. I'm doing better than literally all of my critics. It's the best revenge.

Jefferson Souza

I don’t think any piece of content has made me think as much as this one in a long time. There’s so much to unpack here. I remember at the time people argued that Vince’s fault was to leverage his age and rank to force intimacy or even a romance, but nothing in this interview suggest that he behaved like that. In fact, it looks like he actually gave her too much power over his actions, which makes the fallout even more absurd.

Anonymous

Such an interesting and revealing listen, Colin. Great work as always. However, I left the episode infuriated. After all of that — after Me Too and “progressives” crucified him for a few awkward text exchanges and *gasp* a touch on the shoulder, Vince still cannot or refuses to see that side’s true nature. He went so far as to say he would not want to come back to the industry in any other way than as a champion for the progressives. The same people who gleefully took his career away. For. Nothing. I felt so sorry for him the entire episode. Now, all I can do is shake my head. The brainwashing is bewildering.

Anonymous
>>75484979

I've just finished watching this and I do share some of your frustration. However, it seems to me that it's the ideals that Vince holds that he refuses to turn on. He genuinely believes in a lot of the radical left's ideals - if I'm inferring correctly from what he stated. The only people he championed here were women, his accuser(s?), and in general. I think it's pretty clear he doesn't agree with the 'crucifixion'. It's just unfortunate that a lot of the people who did crucify him also believe the same things he does. With a majority of the industry being full of toxicity and autocannibalism, oases like Last Stand are the only places he'll get the opportunity to be a part of the discussion once again.

Dylan Michael

An interesting note: Vince said that his wife was questioning the relationship he had with Kallie, which means he wasn’t the only one to have perceived their friendship as quite close. While I personally wouldn’t have made those comments or jokes he did, I really don’t think it earned him losing a dream job in the industry or his name on that list. It’s only rational that for certain people like Vince we open up the conversation of second chances.

Jason Harris

What I’ve learned from this is HR exists to protect the company and not the individual… Such a great interview and glad it seems like he got some personal closure…every set back is a setup for comeback😁

Anonymous

Fantastic work Colin, We are blessed to have you to do these types on conversations. Hope Vince finds his feet again in the industry. I wouldn’t even mind him becoming a guest on the show to talk gaming.

Anonymous

That VOX article segment is beyond heartbreaking. I had no idea he was lumped in with all of those people. Fucked up man

Anonymous

This was a hard listen but feel it was an important one. Lending Vince your platform gave him the opportunity to offer his version of events. As the ign investigation found, it seems like there was an error of judgement on both sides... be we only heard one through the court of public opinion. Thank you Colin and the team for treating your audience as grown ups and letting us make our own minds up.

Ro_Shambo

I think this is very seriously one of the most interesting and important interviews you've ever done, Colin. Some of the complaints lodged against Vince sound terrible out of context, but it's not hard to imagine how conversations among co-workers could reach that point. More than anything this is just sad.

Kyle4Office

Just listened to this. The underlying self loathing is what I found the most interesting. He seems so dedicated to the liberal narrative even though it essentially ate him up and spat him out. He accepts the excommunication because to rally against it would mean accepting that conservatives may be right. Seems like he had a decent defamation case against Kallie but again that would betray his dogma.

Sineo

Colin, thank you. Capturing the moments that many would rather minimize and hide. Eye opening and heartbreaking.