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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 152: The Excommunication of Vince Ingenito (Patreon)

Published:
2022-01-04 17:00:10
Edited:
2022-01-11 16:59:22
Imported:
2022-01

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There was a time when IGN's Vince Ingenito was one of mainstream gaming media's foremost fighting game experts, critics, and writers. Then, in late 2017, he lost it all almost as quickly as he earned it. And, no, you haven't heard from him since. That's because this is Vince's first public appearance since he was "MeToo'd," losing his job and his reputation in the process. What happened? Where has Vince been? And, perhaps most importantly, did Vince deserve his excommunication? Did the punishment fit the crime? That, as always, is for you to determine.

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Comments

Anonymous

Wow. Didn’t expect this at all!!

Anonymous

Man, i haven’t even listened to this yet and from the name alone i know this is a must listen. Vince was a refreshing voice in games media during his time in the light

Ari Levi

This oughta be a good one. LSM bringing the heat!

Tyler Floyd

Woah. New year off to a good start.

Cody Richter

Oh man, helluva surprise! I loved Vince back in the day and really enjoyed his input and expertise. This is gonna be a good one!

Matthew Clem

Holy shit, I honestly never expected to hear anything from him. I'm still hoping one day Colin can talk to Marty Sliva about what happened to him, but I don't know if they were on good terms or not at the time Colin left Kinda Funny.

Conor Wilson

This is almost as surprising as when Vince gave Evolve a 9.

Anonymous
>>74991547

Yeah, I liked Marty a lot and would love to know what in the hell happened.

Kendrick Luckenbach

Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. A long time. looking forward to this one!

NuclearProstate

Holy fuck I always loved Vince. He really knew his shit. This will be interesting considering what's gone down

Anonymous

Damn Colin

Anonymous

Wasn’t expecting this

NuclearProstate

Not looking forward to twitter finding out about this one and once again trying to burn Colin and people claiming he's giving platforms to despicables.

John Fazio

Holy shit!!! I miss seeing and hearing Vince!! He was great!!

TL
>>74992014

That is fair but Colin wanted this that’s why it’s here. Glad he is willing to do this stuff. Marty someday maybe.

Anthony J Sanchez

This is amazing so far. It's really weird that people hug in the video game industry, lol, I've been in sales for over 15 years, no hugs. Just hand shakes, and now, not even that, due to the virus.

Anonymous

LSM continues to be the best fucking place to be.

Erin Eden

Never thought I'd see the day. Beyond excited to give this a listen later tonight.

Tyler

My main take away thus far is that some folks are too chummy in the workplace.

Remington James

Needed this today! Y’all have my support forever ✌️✌️

Tony Palylyk

This is fantastic! I’ve been wondering what happened to him since that all went down. Great job Colin and team!

Anonymous

Oh wow! This is a great surprise. Always liked Vince. Hard not to be sympathetic toward him after watching it (albeit I have 15 minutes left!) Is there any chance you'd have Jared Petty on? I always loved your dynamic and used to love the stuff you did at Kinda Funny.

FourEyes Malone

Great conversation. I’m glad he got to speak in a forum that will listen. Him acknowledging his wrongdoings and moving forward was key. Hard not to feel bad but he said many things that are right. When you get older and in this new era as a man you have to be smart and act accordingly with women. And you’re right Colin, no way should he be on a list with Harvey Weinstein.

Mike Po

Having gotten through the whole thing and taking what he had to say at face value, definitely seems like he just misread the friendship boundary with a few of those comments. I also will echo your comment about the company finding both of them at fault. I am an in-house employment lawyer for a state agency, have frequently reviewed these types of investigations, and I think there is definitely something to that finding from the company. Good conversation, thanks for putting it together!

TL

Excellent episode, good to hear his take instead of only mysterious circumstances. As you said Colin, only the two people can know what happened, but I understand why he waited as long as he did despite the inner turmoil.

Jose Cantu

I really love that LSM doesn't hide from having conversations with anyone, agree or disagree. Thank you for all the content, Colin and crew.

Christopher Smith

I’m early into the interview and it’s probably because of the familiarity between Colin and Vince but it seems like Colin is far more understanding and bias in his conversation with Vince than he was with Philip. Which I guess is okay because he doesn’t advertise these as objective interviews Im just finding it interesting.

MayorGarbageMan

Vince is a guy who clearly has very little self awareness, what he needed was a another guy to sit him down and say "dude you need to leave her alone". Throughout this whole conversation he was constantly trying to help her (the Uber ride, going to her apartment, asking her if she's OK all the time, offering to take her to a safe space). I don't think he did anything "bad" but clearly just doesn't understand boundaries with women. That's just what I got from this.

Cameron

I think a interesting ex ign person to have on next would be Marty Sliva? He quietly left ign and is now writing for escapist after many years being completely silent.

Anonymous

These are the kinds of conversations that make LSM one of the best podcast outlets. Most wouldn't touch a subject like this with a ten foot pole. I applaud the boldness and the quality of the content.

Ari Levi

Just listened to the interview. The story has too many holes to have one person cast out from the industry, and as stated, until there’s clarity, Vince should not be on the same list with true monsters (e.g. Weinstein). Would love to see old IGN alum on sacred symbols even if there was no controversy surrounding them! Bringing back some old voices like Clements or Goldfarb would be a treat! Thanks for all the hard work you guys do.

Jeremy Shook

What a great interview. Vince is such a good dude and I missed seeing him.

Timothy Martin

Can’t wait to listen to this

Antonio Pereira

Good to hear from Vince after so long. Great interview.

Anonymous

Wow that ending really is so mature of Vince. As a fellow leftist it really touched my heart, because you totally could become a grifter off of your story and make bank in far-right spaces, but you willingly chose not to. To me that says alot about your character.

thefury4815

Completely forgot about all of this as I wasn't really a huge fan of him back when ign was worth watching but after listening to this it's kind of sad that because of some tweets with no actual evidence he got fucked over especially after it was investigated at ign and nothing negative was found against him and he got put on a list with some of the worst people who actually had evidence against them and did far worse shit. Dude should just say fuck it and make a YouTube channel or something and leave it up to the public if they wanna watch his content or not

Jeff Caseres

Great Interview Colin! The way I see it he thought she was a friend and she turned out not to be. Everything else that happened could have been solved in a much better way if she just talked to him directly. Instead she chose to publicly do it and Imo that’s a dick move. Did he probably say weird awkward shit, of course! But fucking talk about it and say it face to face not publicly on social media, he clearly didn’t mean any harm. Again Colin, great Interview! Keep it up! This isn’t related to the interview exactly but it’s just an observation. Funny this interview is coming out now because I was just thinking last week about the Me Too “movement” and find it interesting how the movement is super quiet right now with the result of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial and during. It’s all just very interesting yet a bit weird. Keep it up Colin! Love y’all!

Tacoyaki

Wow, I did not expect this.

David Kramme

Whoa excited for this, I remember you remarking back in the day how much you enjoyed his writing, made me pay special attention to his work when he was still at IGN

George Sinclair

I completely forgot about that ridiculous Vox page. I looked it up whilst listening to this and they have a bit on the page that says "Tap to view the accused" like it's some kind of inquisition or something. I think it's absolutely mad how none of these people stop to think about putting someone with *at worst* boundary issues into the same category as Larry Nassar is even remotely sensible, intelligent or even ethical. I think this bloke clearly hasn't always been able to distinguish the line between a colleague and a friend and based on what *she's* said matched up against his account, I think that's really the worst you can say about him. I think it's a real shame that he's had the court of public opinion and the justified sensitivity surrounding "MeToo" manipulated against him. A real shame. Really brilliant interview Colin, I certainly wouldn't have expected anyone else to have the guts to interview this guy.

Brandon Bishop

Man, when he mentioned his son that hit me hard. Vince didn't want sympathy but he got it from me there.

Phil Walker

For starters, great interview. I dont know if its uniquely American, how sensitive the workplace has become, I expect not. But as a European I would have been somewhat angry with her, If I were him. I understand that he is very empathetic guy, possibly naive, and has probably been a little mind fucked by the ordeal. But she took a very serious course of action which led to very serious ramifications for his career. It rubs me a little the wrong way that he is so sympathetic to her, if he truly only did and said what he is claiming. Im very conflicted. Ultimately it just feels like the whole thing was a real waste of energy. That it could have been conducted in a far more adult manor. I dont know...

Chris

it seems like he's had to pay a much, much higher price for the "don't shit where you eat" lesson that we all need to learn. he made some awkward passes and interpreted some of what she did as reciprocation to the point where HR got involved. personally, if I find myself developing feelings for a coworker, it's my queue to look for a new job or just walk if possible. even if they do reciprocate, it's just asking for trouble. it's mortifying and uncomfortable that this all got aired publicly and unfair that he's now put on a shortlist with serial rapists

Dakota Brown

This was a very sad listen. I had no idea about this whole fiasco and him being “MeToo’d.” It’s true that you have to be extremely cautious about anything you say to people in general today. There are pros and cons to the culture today. This is definitely one of the biggest cons..people like Vince being hurt and their career taken from them over something so small.

LastStandMedia
>>75004443

It's the conundrum of how one both validates one's concerns while not ruining another person. I don't see what a person like Kallie has to gain by going public; yet, I can see that she may not have thought it through for the other party.

LastStandMedia
>>75008449

A good European view into workplace culture is Quantic Dream, which has (for years) been the target of a lot of gossip and litigation. I'm not sure if it's America, per se, or just the west.

Jack Sibert

The story is so weird it almost sounds fake. I understand that some people are fickle emotionally, and that is exacerbated through certain life experiences -I've had my own ups and downs in life. But her reaction to Vince simply touching her arm is soo overblown. If you don't like to be touched at all by others, simply ask them to refrain from doing that and move on. Especially if it's someone that you otherwise treat and and consider as a friend. Idk, either KP is an emotional minefield that should wear warning signs or something else happened between them that both Vince and her aren't revealing. The arm touch just simply cannot warrant the actions she took.

Anonymous

Exactly why I love LSM You'd never get this content in the rest of the industry

Andy T

This whole situation was and is completely and utterly unjust. Unbelievable. At work, I’m never, ever alone in the same room as a female coworker. For exactly this reason.

Robert Graham

Maybe others disagree. But to me, it certainly sounds like he was into her and was pursuing her on some level. It sounds like he was interpreting their friendship as closer and more intimidate than she felt it was and he frequently made her uncomfortable. The comments he made definitely sound inappropriate to me, and I was surprised to hear he was in a relationship when these things occurred (again cause it sounded like he was into her). That said, it’s insane that he gets lumped in with the likes of real monsters that got “me too’d”.

James Buck

Man this is seems like exactly the sort of situation where a woman leads a man on or gets too close and talks about things you shouldn't in the work place then acts all surprised when it goes a little too far.

Monterey Jack

Thanks for doing this interview; I was unaware of Vince's situation. As someone who manages employees, these types of stories are great reminders to show gratitude and friendliness with coworkers while remaining careful and assuming all have strict boundaries.. all it takes is one misinterpretation to fuck up your entire career. It sounds like Vince is healing and I'm sure that it was quite therapeutic for him to speak.

LastStandMedia
>>75011788

It really does seem fake, but I can relate, because I was also caught in a snare that was equally absurd.

shouty33

Wow incredible interview what a way to start off 2022

Stuart Johnstone

Amazing interviews Colin. Once again showing that there is a place for this type of content and you have the balls to put this on your platform. Can’t wait for more fantastic content in 2022 🤘🤘

Kaleb

It's really upsetting hearing this conversation. He was laid off 8 months already before Kallie decided that wasn't enough and took the opportunity to destroy his public image and career. Brian, Alannah, Naomi, Marty, McCaffery and Jose Otero, almost all of the biggest names at the company, publicly took Kallie's side that day. How easy it is for the industry to turn on and destroy you is sad. All the work he's done and now he's a fucking part time barista. Glad to see he has a family and seems to be in alright place mentally.

BM

When it comes to the game industry it always makes me stop and think where are the adults. It’s like watching people stuck in high school purgatory.

The Funky Monk

Just finished listening. Truly excellent interview and why I'm glad to pay for your content. So many takeaways from this one, though not much more to add than what's already been said. I just hope we as a society begin to work on our own emotional maturity. And interviews like these are a step in the right direction. Great stuff.

Anonymous

Thanks Colin. Its so rare to hear the other side of the story. I'm not listening to this as a mystery story as to who was wrong or right... I'm listening to this because I finally get to hear the other side that is generally silenced by the masses. We need to stop glorifying cancellation and punishment. Constant news coverage of criminal trials (like Elizabeth Holmes) that features every day on news websites is indicative of our obsession with this. Apparently we just want to see people punished. I hate pile on culture. Saying the "right thing" is so easy these days. You're permitted to say the "right thing" even when you don't have any of the facts. You just need to know the target. Thanks again. I LOVE all of LSM content. This was something else though, and I honestly really appreciate it.

Andrew McGregor

Hey Colin Great interview again, I always liked Vince, but never really knew the details on where he went. Seems he misread their relationship and was a bit naive, but the result seems a bit harsh. Almost seems if cooler heads had prevailed it could have been dealt with differently. However to the woman involved it could have been perceived completely differently, so struggle to completely dismiss it. He does not deserve to be in the same conversation as Weinstein imho.

Anonymous

Really interesting interview. You should bring him on again to talk games.

Brian

Couple of things come to mind 1. In the office treat everyone as a professional at all times. They are not your friends or your family. How many stories have we heard where the entire office turned on someone? Your family will stick by you no matter what, your work peers will most often not. 2. Instead of describing yourself as a feminist first, maybe try standing up straight like a grown man and say something to the effect “I’m sorry she feels that way, but I’m not a monster or a sexual predator and I refuse to have my name dragged through the mud” 3. I give progressive credit for their steadfastness to the cause, it robbed him of his dream and put tremendous stress on his marriage. In the end when he was pressed to the wall his main concerns were the feelings of the girl falsely accusing him and his political ideology….

Benjamin Schultz

I would love to hear the other side. Not to contradict or argue over who’s right, but me wanting to understand more and not be ignorant thinking something like this “was no big deal”, and should not have ruined someone’s dream career.

Anonymous

I didn't know anything about this case prior listening to this episode. Not into male feminist thing. I don't have many rules in my life, but one that I have had since I started working has been that never have relationships with my co-workers. It probably has saved me from a lot of bad situations.

Anonymous

This was a really nice surprise. I genuinely missed Vince’s voice at IGN and him leaving was one of the few reasons I moved away from there content. His reviews were great and obviously it wasn’t just us that thought that going by the offers he had afterwards. What a world we’re in now. Thank fuck we have last stand at this point and thank you to Colin for doing these pieces. Taking a stand and doing this work is what’s needed. Keep it coming.

John Fazio

Wow I listened to this one yesterday and marinated on it all night and was thinking of this conversation while falling asleep. Obviously he messed up but it wasn’t even that bad and I feel like he paid his dues mentally and I can’t help but feel bad for the guy that it completely ruined his career. I felt so bad when he was talking about working in a coffee shop which isn’t a bad thing but you can tell it isn’t what he wants to do. Just sad. I don’t know who is at fault but I can’t help but feel it was IGN because they didn’t give a satisfactory verdict to the issue. From the audience point of view they botched that verdict so bad this woman was fuming for years about it and had to destroy his career over it. I can’t pretend to know exactly what happened because we just know what either one of them had said but I hope the best for both parties in the future

Bradley McDermott

Interesting to observe that Vince appears so bound by his convictions pertaining to feminism and gender roles that he is almost unable to acknowledge a reality in which he may have been equally wronged. A devastating yet illuminating interview.

Anonymous

Great episode. Might I suggest you interview SoNoToRage in the near future?

Anonymous

Just WOW! LSM is killing it!

Marius Skarsem Pedersen

It was so great to hear Vince again! I always loved him when he came to IGN, and this whole mess really bummed me out, because it didn't seem like what he did was that bad. Of course the woman is entitled to feel as she does, but is it really worth ruining a man's life over it? And he's lumped in with all these people that abused and raped people, it's just wrong imo. It's good to see that Colin and Vince are cool with each other, because I think Vince said some crap during the whole Colin leaving KF mess that was not cool. I would love to hear Vince come back and talk about games, he's one of the best at that imo.

NeO JD

Great interview. Never was a fan of KP to begin with, so I feel bad for Vince. Sure, some things might not be appropriate, but the IGN ruling says it all, and nobody should lose their livelihood over that. Wishing Vince the best.

Jeremy Craves

Reminds me of AMC keeping Chris Hardwick after they investigated Chloe Dykstra’s claims. I wish it worked out for him the same.

Jose Horrach

I hope the right people listen to this and bring vince back into the industry. Perhaps this should be made public as opposed to keeping it behind the paywall?

Anonymous

Bring him back as a guest

Joe McPartlin

I always liked Vince and it was disappointing to find out why he wasn't in games media any more. I come away from this interview feeling like a man who's biggest crime was being a bit awkward has an unjust spot on a list next to Harvey Weinstein. IMO the guy deserves another shot, though I don't know where in the games industry he could even go.

Craig Carter

It was hard to listen to Vince talk about everything because he just can’t get past the fact that he may have been unjustly wronged in the situation.. his convictions are so strong that he just can’t let go and think that maybe… just maybe, Kallie isn’t the most forthright person in the world. She shat all over you when you came out with you’re own harassment stories with Bob but has to destroy a mans life over an awkward/uncomfortable situation that she was just as much apart of as Vince himself

bix hutch

I remember when this happened and specifically remember the fact that IGN found both of them at fault. I remember finding that point not focused on enough. Nobody seemed to ask what they found to come to that conclusion rather they just lambasted IGN for coming to that conclusion at all. His punishment does not seem to fit the crime what so ever. Wish you well Vince. Always loved your work.

Matthew Guilford

In my opinion, just from this interview this human doesn’t deserve how he has been treated by society. Colin made a great point how IGN found both parties responsible, a big corporation would not come to this conclusion unless they found both parties to have an equal amount of guilt in the circumstance. It’s sad to see this persons life ripped away by this woman, years after the issue was put to rest. He has no option to defend himself as once you are “accused” of any harassment towards anyone of a different gender, etc. you are automatically branded and there’s nothing you can do or say to please society’s appetite for social justice. This man wasn’t even told what he did yet he is forced to apologize to the world and suffer because someone felt “uncomfortable” out of the blue. It’s happening everyday, I was accused by an ex-girlfriend who was mentally and physically abusive, when I finally got the courage to leave, all it took for her to ruin my life was a phone call and an “accusation” with not one shred of evidence, I was imprisoned, I was facing up to sixty years in prison, spent $20,000 on lawyer fees and suffered mentally because out of anger and set on revenge, a woman made an accusation. I am lucky enough to have a family that fought right beside me and a good lawyer. If I didn’t have those things I wouldn’t have been able to prove my innocence and would have been spending my life prison over a lie. It really hurts me to think this is happening all of the time and I want these people to know they have someone on their side. Thank you for doing this interview. It’s important!

Al Rodriguez

Base on what Vince has said, Kallie seems she might be suffering from a more severe mental illness than anxiety and depression, etc. - maybe bipolar. This world we live in has become highly sensitive. The incident that happen in E3 seems like a nothing burger. Had this happen merely 10 years before it would of seem like a nice gesture. Sure some people don't like to be touched, hugged etc. But intent matters and it seems like Vince intent was from a place of kindness. The problem is, when you start having initmate conversations with your friend who's the opposite sex, and also to someone who was merely 22 (peak sexual drive for women) the lines gets blurred and all of a sudden any nice gesture to this 22 year old college kid comes off as sexual assaut or harassement. On that end, Vince should of known better not to have those types of conversations and relationship with such a young girl coming out of college in the workplace (keep it business) - especially with GF. This is when Vince should of put his "I've been an adult for almost 20 years" hat on, and so I don't need this drama in my life. Also, it seems like they had a mutal flirting relationship going on - not good. This might be a product of the inherit nature of games media - a industry run by young adults. This is all classic #MeToo ingredients - I would of seen this from a mile away and would of told Vince to stay away, and keep it business with her.

Paco_Luigi

Wow, this was a very powerful and insightful listen. I have more to say, but I’m gonna process first.

Gerson Mercado

I work in Human Resources for a hospital health system here in New York City and have seen many similar harassment complaints end like Vince and Kallie’s. We have scenarios where one Resident would state another is making her feel uncomfortable, but when combing through texts and emails it’s clear BOTH were going along with the exchange(s) with no issues. Very unfortunate how this played out.

Al Rodriguez
>>75072027

This is why the person who makes these claims should be evaluated. This isn’t normal human behavior, you cant show that you are enjoying the person stepping out line and then call it harassment or assault a few weeks later. Kallie looks like she had a bipolar episode. (I speak from experience with people like that in my life and my spouse who is mental health professional.) Expressing a sense of invitation and then the other day spaze out and call for sexual harassment/assault is highly polarizing behavior hence bipolar. She should seek help. I have no sympathy for guys like Vince, you’re too fucking old to be stepping out line with this. Keep you personal and business separate. Leave that kind of shit for young new grads.

Al Rodriguez

Dude, just one scroll in her Twitter and it’s clear. She suffers from a lot mental health. She is pretty open. This needs to be considered.

Manuel Nascimento

Excellent interview and glad to see Vince agreeing to it since it’s clearly a difficult topic on so many levels. Really well conducted, thoughtful and reasonable interview touching all the points. Like many other I would love to hear Kallie’s side for all this. From Vince’s POV, my take is that the situation is clearly far from the likes of actual intent of abusing sexually or forcing a into a sexual relationship. Yeah, some inappropriate things were said but not outside the “banter-type” stuff, I feel. And man, ignoring a coworker in front of you that you feel is having a hard time and not trying to show some form of support… But I guess nowadays everyone really needs to be especially guarded in the workspace and actually think about actively preventing friendships and “closeness” to develop. Since this kinds of “misunderstandings” are so easy do creep up and also society is such a tinderbox for it right now. The way I love to talk to my friends about videogames and the passion that topic brings and also some banter - it’s just natural, hard to avoid some connections actually forming. Can only imagine when your work is to live and breathe video games.

Mike R

Very good talk, thank you both for doing it. I think towards the end Vince hit on the exact conclusion, that these kinds of relationships between men and women are just fraught and it’s best to keep things in the workplace friendly but work appropriate and not very personal. Even if both parties for a time consent to a more personal dynamic, it’s just a fact that it’s ok up until the moment that it isn’t. Who knows when that clicked for Kallie? Everything is fine until one comment rubs her the wrong way and then everything after that is colored differently. It becomes far worse when you add in the workplace hierarchy and any kind of power dynamics there. It’s just not the place for these kinds of friendships.

LastStandMedia
>>75033927

I agree with #1, but as I explained, IGN is not a normal workplace. It's just not. Not even close. And so a lot of these walls and barriers become eroded, because it does become more like family.

LastStandMedia
>>75040210

I consider myself a feminist, in that men and women should be treated equally. Nothing wrong with that.

Clint

I'm sure he had worse intentions than he let on but this girl sounds like damaged goods and lived for his attention. Thank you for making content like this. I love supporting it.

LastStandMedia
>>75063145

Yup. Sometimes these things aren't what they seem. It's why we should be open-minded, inquisitive, and fair.

LastStandMedia
>>75070471

Right. It's just hard to believe IGN would expose themselves to the repercussions of not doing the right thing. Clearly, firing Vince for what happened would have gotten them sued. There's so obviously more to this.

Anonymous

Vince’s commitment to the memory of his friendship with KP was disheartening and frustrating to hear as well as his incredulity that she intended to wound him. He won me over despite some obvious flaws I observed in his character. I wish him and his family well in life. Great interview Colin. Thank you.

Brandon Soto

I would accept Vince with open-arms if he were a regular on LSM. He deserves another chance. Also, why was a 20-year old kid working at IGN?? That should’ve been the first red flag right there.

Nathan Densley

You're a fucking champ Colin. I'm not sure if he apologized to you in secret, but you're a good man. And that has always been a rare thing.

Boots!

This was a great interview. It gave me a lot to think about when it comes to my friendships at work.

Anonymous

Great interview, Colin. It’s hard to hear Vince continuing to validate her feelings - even after what she did. Ruining his career - to get her moment in the spotlight. I hope that he finds his way back into the industry. He doesn’t deserve to remain ostracised forever.

Anonymous

That whole episode was so hard to watch. I kept thinking to myself “Thats it?” in reference to what Vince was accused of. Not to belittle Vince now but it was such a contrast to see the accused lose out on a great job and work as a barista while the accuser got a job at Nintendo. The IGN investigation is the most damning piece of evidence that this wasnt another “Me too” moment. I will say that Vince is a principled man. He lived by the sword of feminism and died by it as well. I would hope if I was accused of something that I never did I would fight harder. He kept saying that her feelings are “valid,” but thats not true at all. Simply having feelings doesnt make them valid. This story is a good lesson why men, such as myself and especially married men, have started keeping all women in the workplace at arms length. Dont shit where you eat.

Joel Wood

wow this guy got fucked over by an idiology he himself harbors. crazy stuff.

Dan Morgan

This was really sad to hear, glad that he landed on his feet though

Captain Canada

Great interview and really interesting to finally hear Vince's perspective. Sounds like he got screwed honestly. Even if 100% of the (frankly tame) accusations were true, and Vince's account as well as the IGN internal investigation cast serious doubts, the total destruction of his career was not a proportional consequence. I wish him the best, and hope he finds his way into games coverage again one day.

Anonymous

It be nice if there was a place for him at LSM

Anonymous

Excellent interview Colin. I have been following you since the IGN days and have been a Patron for several years. I enjoy your content as it offers different opinions other than the lemmings-like mentality of the games industry media types. I would say that Vince was extremely naive when I comes to working with women, especially young women and in the Bay Area of all places. I have learned from working in the pharmaceutical industry supervising that you shouldn’t get too close to your coworkers. Doubly so, if they are of the opposite sex. Definitely shouldn’t touch them even if it seems harmless. It’s like some of the old sayings, “don’t s*** where you eat or don’t play where you stay.” I do think the punishment he is enduring seems very heavy handed but such is the way of the cancel culture and woke mob.

Jordan campos

Vince was from my hometown area. I remember the second I started liking him he vanished!

Context Should Matter

This is the perfect example of an awkward nerd not knowing boundaries. I can tell there is parts he is leaving out but nothing so egregious that he should be banished from society. The part at the end where he talks about not wanting to defend himself because it would attract the wrong people is the progressive mindset. It's either all or nothing with them. You are either a feminist or a woman hater. No dude, I can think what you did was wrong but also think you shouldn't be put on a flaming ship and pushed out to sea. It's okay to say I am not Harvey Weinstein.

Anonymous

A real shame. I've been a quietly content patron of this channel for a long time but the quality of this content was far below the level we have been accustomed to for so long. It became very clear early on that Colin was not being an impartial interviewer, that his mind was already made up and that he was satisfied with the input of someone who was clearly his friend, to the point where Colin vocally, multiple times, made assumptions on behalf of the audience, despite his earlier mentions that "the audience should make up their own minds". The interview was imbalanced, Colin was not impartial, and I as the audience am unfortunately frustrated that I was left unable to make up my own mind, as Colin began to speak to Vince on my behalf, or spend 15 minutes pointlessly fluffing his ego over his brief stint as a consultant rather than discussing the facts at hand. The fact that Colin was aware of, had sources for, and even made mention of 3 distinct statements that each constituted verbal sexual harassment by themselves, only to brush over them at best, or willfully ignore them at worst, and the fact that a second accuser came to light only in the final 10 minutes of the show to be similarly washed away in the tide of soft questions and attentive praise, is quite ridiculous. Colin, you have often harped on about the failure of other interviewers to ask the hard questions, it is disappointing to see you drop the ball and tarnish what would otherwise have been a very interesting and unique interview.

Davosplat
>>75139542

You of course are entitled to your interpretation of the interview but I didn't see it that way. Specifically when it came to the "second accuser", it seemed obvious that the second woman did not want to be involved in the situation and distanced herself early on. My take was that in respect to her wishes they didn't go into it. Which is fine given that unless she choses to make a statement, we cannot guess at the nature of her involvement? My take anyhow.

Jordan campos

IGN conducted a HR investagation and found them both at fault! YET, Vince seems to be the only one suffering from this event, when a investigation found them both equally at fault.............

Joseph Cerini

Regardless of the substance of the accusations, the age gap is the Achilles heel. He is 15 years older then this woman and she herself was a young adult. Not to mention, there are two accusers. As someone higher up the food chain, you A) know better and B) know those comments are not appropriate in a business. People know right from wrong, I will not be convinced otherwise because what is done is done.

Alex Gates

Yeah, unlike the Filip Miucin interview where he clearly did wrong and just seemed completely out of his depth, I feel like Vince has been treated too harshly. Sure, if what he did/said made her uncomfortable, that’s not good. But, it seems like he did his best to rectify it and was thrown to the curb regardless. He seems like a really good guy who’s trying to do the right thing and learn from his mistakes. I hope he finds a way back into gaming.

LastStandMedia
>>75125964

He'll certainly be back as a guest. We can't really afford to bring more people on and continue to pay everyone fairly.

LastStandMedia
>>75130763

I agree with you in the main, but I'll note that the games industry is not the pharmaceutical industry in any respect.

LastStandMedia
>>75137653

He may be leaving things out; but we'll never know more until we hear from the other side, which I doubt we will.

Anonymous

Very engaging discussion. I'm of the mind that the punishment did not match the crime(the crime which is still even to the accused unknown). Vince appears to be a very kind person, maybe to a fault in this case. I hope this interview helps him somehow, even if it is just personally.

James McGivern

This one is challenging. Normally I like to leave more positive comments, but since this is intended to draw out discussion... Vince would be happy to hear I don't have pity for him. I question his judgement. Considering the age difference and power dynamic, reasonable prudence should have dictated greater professionalism. This concept applies to both genders, but is more important for men due to social and physical factors. I would argue the punishment of total ostracization doesn't fit the crime, given the facts as we know them today. But I also wonder if the isolation from the games industry isn't also partly self-imposed. Keep writing, continue building a body of work, even if just under your own name. Clearly Vince is at odds with himself, feeling both guilt and self-loathing. Towards the end of the interview, he talked about how afraid he was to defend himself or make an attempt to return to the industry for fear of fueling bad actors who would use his story in negative ways. This kind of thinking is poisonous for the mind. Bad people are always going to twist your words. Fuck them. We wouldn't want to teach our daughters to fear standing up for themselves, why should it be different for our sons? And if you feel you made mistakes, you work towards redemption. Colin, I respect what you're doing with this interview. It's thought-provoking and bold, but it leaves me feeling mixed. What we are left with now is only half of a he-said/she-said story, years old, and constrained by NDAs. I'm not convinced any one of us has the knowledge to really judge this story. I hope good comes out of this, and if I come across as too harsh here, I want to clarify I bear no I'll will towards Vince or anyone else

LastStandMedia
>>75164487

I don't disagree that it leaves us all feeling mix, due to the incompleteness of it all. That said, I think we've contributed something new and something meaningful, and maybe it'll be up to another outlet to do the next bit of legwork. I don't reach out to Kallie out of respect for the fact that she won't want to hear from me. So what's the point.

James McGivern

Well, despite my lukewarm feeling on the interview. It got me thinking, and it lead to some thoughtful conversations with my wife -- so for me at least I would have to say there has been value. Other than that, I hope for the best for everyone.

MarkGrouch

Im ashamed to admit I believed he did something way way worse to Kallie simply due to the way industry folks talked about it on Twitter. This is a raw, unfiltered look at what these things can do to people. Vince doesn’t deserve this.

Anonymous

How about Marty

Anonymous

This is why LSM is awesome. I'm looking forward to this one.

Anonymous

Just finished - awesome interview. The pile on culture has created this guilty until proven innocent mindset that just runs rampant on social media. For IGN to find them both at fault but he gets me too'd over it seems completely one sided and unfair (and there's no opportunity to clear his name). Makes me ponder if the 'goods' of social media outweigh the cons. A hand full of good social justice causes but there's a monumental amount of collateral damage it seems.

Ryan

He won't defend himself because of ideology . Kind of pathetic to me

Devin K

Colin and everyone at LSM - you should be proud of what you're doing here. Vince doesn't seem like a bad guy at all, I hope things start looking up for him career wise if that's what he wants. Glad to hear he had support from family and peers along the way. Thanks for the great interview, and giving a person the opportunity to talk about a bad situation from their point of view.

Wayne Moss

Another amazing episode I love how you guys don’t hide away from these types of topics.

Simmo

Great conversation Colin, I really don't think the punishment fitted the crime here and wonder what would have happened had it not been caught up in the zeitgeist of the time. Particularly heart wrenching to hear him talk about his son potentially finding that vox article. Hope he does find his way back into the industry in some format he's clearly good at it.

Anonymous

Hope Vince is doing well. Sucks what happened to him and the people around him.

Nick Lone

Great interview, Colin. Amazing insight. Keep up the fantastic work! To be honest, despite wanting to write about games from a young age, I don’t envy you or your time at IGN in the least. Sounds like most of these people haven’t grown up at all since high school. This is really silly shit that normal, functioning adults could easily resolve without getting HR involved. The whole “safe space” at E3 is just confirmation to me that the biggest issue with the “industry” is that it is almost entirely comprised of children.

Oliver Johnson

This was a really lovely and insightful conversation. Much to both of your points, there should be a way to recover from this that doesn’t compromise the belief that victims should be heard. I’d love to see Vince offer forgiveness, because I think there’s a lot of people who deserve that and we just haven’t figured out the way to give that to many of those publicly shamed by their mistakes. Conversely, it would be pretty great to have an interview with someone who has been the victim of harassment and see how they feel about the way this works from the other side of the aisle.

Gondotheslayer
>>75338652

I agree to some extent. I think we should be able to forgive "almost" anyone as long as they show some form of remorse for their "crime" - of course, innocent until proven guilty - unless you are Bill Cosby out here getting tons of accusations in which case it's probably best to at least avoid making statements in either direction, even making the statement you are neutral.

Kyle Melendez

Dont listen to a lot of the patreon exclusive shows cuz i absolutely cant stand patreons app or site, but had to listen to this. Back in the day colin used to say vincewas the best person to listen to talk about games. Always wondered what happened to him afterwards, also wondered what the hell happened to marry sliva as well. Great interview, and i hope he ends up back in the industry.

LastStandMedia
>>75380968

Remember that you can use RSS to get the podcasts to your phone or other device without having to interact with Patreon. <3

Eric S

Very interesting listen. The one thing I kept thinking of while listening to it was. The truth is the truth. From the information presented here it sounds like it was how IGN HR described it. Two people both of them crossing the lines of what is appropriate at work. Sadly Vince just got the way short end on this one. I think in these cases facts get tossed to the side and one side is believed as absolute truth in the publics eye. It should be both sides given equally opportunity and consideration for their stories of their perspective truths. I also agree with Colin that it must have been equal parties at fault for IGN to say it was both sides at fault. Good episode guys!

Anonymous

Great interview Colin, letting Vince speak.

LastStandMedia
>>75405376

I'll be interested to hear from the gallery when this conversation goes live. Maybe more information will surface, who knows.

Mark Whittington

This was a hard listen, the bloke clearly got mugged off by this bird but he's so conciliatory about it.

Clint Farley

Finally listened to this one. This just shows that two people can have different perceptions and feelings about something but they can both be valid. The problem I have is communication is everything in any type of relationship and after IGN ruled both were at fault there should have been counseling. These were two friends not strangers. Taking opening about how you’re feeling is important and part of the healing process, even if it doesn’t change anyone’s opinion.

ItsThatJeremyC

I feel like I share a lot of the qualities and values that Vince has about women and how it is important to listen to them so it is kind of scary knowing so little can cause so much damage to your professional career. I feel the right solution is to just exist in a professional environment and just be professional, no friends and no opening up just so you don't give the rope to someone to hang you with later but that in itself just sounds so depressing. I think the problem is no one really has the answers on how to rightfully juggle having friendships with the opposite sex other than "Just don't have any".

Anonymous

I'm so flummoxed by this. Vince seems incredibly sincere. I didn't detect any hint of self serving motivation or any other nefarious quality. He just seems like a guy who reasonably misjudged a relationship, and has been absolutely butchered for it. It's like getting a life sentence for stealing a chocolate bar. And he doesn't even know what he did exactly? Crazy. I hope he gets a second chance. I miss his voice in the game community. I for one would be really pleased if he could come on another SS+ episode just to talk games - no additional past life rehashing necessary imo. Edit: would love to hear from Marty Sliva too if possible. Not sure what the story is there, but I always enjoyed hearing him on Beyond or Game Scoop back in the day.

Anonymous

I've never been more proud to support your content than I was after hearing this episode. Its such essential context for this oft weaponised socio-political movement, a calm, logical look at the actions of the accused without the vitriol and jumping to conclusions that the internet seems to cultivate. This episode is one of your most vital pieces of journalism since creating CLS and there will always be an audience willing to step back and listen to industry commentary without such a insidious political bias.

Anonymous
>>75485476

I have a feeling Marty was reached out to but declined to take part, I could be wrong. I feel like I saw one of the CDC trio say it in a LSM group on Facebook.

Nigel

Colin, loved the interview. My first introduction to Vince was his interview with Greg about his love for Baldur's Gate 2 in 2014, a game I also adore and still have the original manual for. I'm so glad he was given the opportunity to share. Whether its a cautionary tale of blatant plagiarism or casualty of a passionate movement, its a beautiful thing to hear a human's voice behind the accusations. I love that I can let my guard down just a little bit knowing that we, that audience, are a priority in these interviews.

Dang

Hmmm. I finished this episode at work and have been thinking about it for the last few hours. First and foremost so much has changed since 2016; it feels like another century with how harassment claims are taken nowadays. Obviously he overestimated their friendship or their understanding of what was OK to talk about. I'm not creeped out that he was 40 and she was 25 but him being in a managerial/editorial position is a situation where you can't let yourself say things like he did. I am confused cause Vince said he edited her pieces but later on it sounds like she got another job in a different department. But I can try and understand this situation though. You work in a "laid-back" environment with a wide range of ages and your desks are all near each other. You have functions that take you out of the office as a group and put you in unfamiliar situations with your colleagues. Alcohol being involved always escalates things too especially with coworkers. Maybe their relationship started out with consensual sexual innuendo but at some point she got weirded out but didn't say anything to him. Friend of the show alahan pierce went on the lsm reddit and collaborated her account. Plus there was the walk out at ign. Seems like inappropriate sexual conversations happened alot at ign with many participating parties, hr didn't take the appropriate steps over the years to stem the tide, and kaliees tweet was the impetus for the walk out and Vince became the face of video game harassment.

Ladder Ape

Well done with this. You handled the interview very professionally. You must be tempted to say more and have to hold yourself back to not remove the focus from the interviewee.

Henry Morgan

The fact that many people’s takeaway from this interview is “Don’t be friends with women at work” is disappointing to me. It’s possible to be friends with female coworkers without making unnecessary comments about their body or sexuality. That being said, it looks like Vince just didn’t have much social awareness here and led to a terrible situation for them both. I’ve personally dealt with older co-workers who constantly make inappropriate or insulting jokes in the workplace, and know how exhausting it can be even if you can’t point to just one singular, heinous act. Just an overall shame

Carlos Moreno

This guy is a wet towel. He's so focused on how he can come back without hurting anyone when he should just focus on how he can come back, if that's what he wants to do. He already had his life ruined for no good reason and he still feels like he needs to keep whipping himself over this girl. I can honestly say I can't relate to him at all and he needs to have more respect and pride for himself.

Aaron Keep-Cusack

Great conversation, I hope Vince can come back to the industry.

Nlindz27

Fantastic Interview. I really feel for him, seems like a genuine guy who was condemned without any evidence. This is the ugly side of social media.

John Kosciusko

Was a very thought provoking conversation. Makes you wonder what the best response to accusation like this. Not that Vince denied the claim, but the malice behind it. You see two sides of the coin, Vince who went quiet maybe hoping it would go away, and someone like Chris Avellone that went after the accuser with receipts. Time will tell who gets back to where they were prior to these accusations.

Hose A Contra Razz

The best revenge is to be happy for yourself, it looks like one person in this me too is happier than the person that wanted the revenge