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Sacred Symbols+, Episode XIV: The Fourth Estate (Patreon)

Published:
2019-11-08 17:00:04
Edited:
2019-11-11 00:19:45
Imported:
2022-01

Downloads

Content

How important is journalism to gaming? It's essential. Yet, in parallel with other fandoms -- film, music, comics, and elsewhere -- the mainstream games press has exercised a scorched Earth tactic that has left large sects of its traditional readership reeling. In the wake of Kotaku's sister site Deadspin's sudden meltdown, let's examine the confusing and fractious landscape of games analysis, talk about what's missing, what's gone right, and what needs to improve. Not surprisingly, much of our conversation hinges on the latter.

Files

Comments

Andrew

Going to comment now because I listen in sessions, but gaming journalism as we know it is a pass. If you aren’t doing Jason work, and what I mean is giving us a look behind the curtain. He gave us great insight into Anthem and black ops 4 and I loved those pieces, but I don’t go to gaming sites for news. I go to YouTube personality channels. Skill up for reviews and Layman gaming for news. The gaming press writers that I’ve seen dislike the gamer. And this doesn’t happen with sports writers. They don’t shit on the core audience.

Andrew

Giant Bomb is what I think the gaming press of the future looks like. An Easy Allies. Just people you feel like you know and not this giant group of people

Anonymous

Hi glasses Moriarty and chiseled jawline Chris. my question is your opinion on choice based games after having played the outer worlds I am wondering what games you like to see use the choice system I personally think a halo game using the system would be cool. If the choose to retire chief. Thanks for always being depressed and alarmingly suicidal from Kevin a fan from the Nederlands.

Anonymous

I might get roasted for this comment for being a *fuckin’ nerd*, but there’s nothing grammatically incorrect about “I am good” or “I feel good.” “Am” and “feel” (in that context) are linking verbs and should be followed by an adjective, not an adverb. Saying, “I feel well,” may seem more appropriate, but “well” is still used as an adjective, unless the speaker means that they’re physically feeling something and doing it well. I’ll carry on enjoying the episode. My apologies.

GameSimp

I remember telling my mom about what happened to you with Kinda Funny. She claimed she heard you on Glen Beck, and turns out that’s true! It’s pretty cool that my mom and I have listened to you through completely different venues!

Alex Lawrence

I only know Lucy O'Brien as Greg and Gen's roomate

Anonymous

To be honest I fond myself actually losing a lot of respect for media overall. Personally I have the sources I trust and i know their bias. I defend people when they need it and say my view on them when I believe it. That being said I feel like games media of all types have sold out for weird reasons political or personal. I do think mainstream access media have given up of being objective overall and took the view of fuck the audience their alt right nazis. That in fern spawned the YouTube critic community and they once have valid points then started to become the same as the overall media. The non willing ness to listen to different views is a problem that is almost boiling over or already has

Murray. M

If I'm being honest watching the game media's treatment of you a couple years completely turned me off all except from a few of the smaller ones like Push Square and Gematsu. On a side note the chemistry between you and Chris sounded just as good when not in person, if that's a reason for you to move home.

Travis Johnson

While I've always had a strong love of analytical writing, even from lenses that aren't immediately relevant from a surface level in many works (i.e. the feminist read of a text), I think people forget that that kind of writing only really works in an opt-in academic setting, otherwise it turns into talk-down activist writing which does little in my opinion to persuade people. With that said I think it's important to celebrate the people who straddle that line well. I know you don't follow much games coverage but have either of you ever looked into Tim Rogers at kotaku? he's a recent hire on their video team who makes lengthy deep analytical dives into games and topics that are incredibly well thought-out, conversational, and personal in a way that shows passion and knowledge well beyond the average outlet writer. He almost seems out of place in that world, as nearly none of his videos have even an ounce of exclusionary rhetoric. A lot of his writing is probably too high brow to get a wide audience, but for people like me who gravitate towards deeper analysis he's worth checking out.

Will Hahn

This is super random and it probably won’t happen, but it’d be super cool to hear you reconnect with Ryan McCaffrey and talk about the state of Xbox when the new consoles are revealed... maybe it could be a special for SS+ one day. Lol I know it’s not PlayStation-centric at all, but hearing you two talk about gaming in the same room would be awesome. That fireside chat you two had was really cool and he’s one of the few people I still listen to from IGN. Anyways, great episode. Looking forward to next Friday!

Matt tamer

Great episode. Your point about Beyond becoming a powerful brand was great. I have been following you Colin since 2009/2010 back when I would visit IGN nonstop after school. Now I'm 25 and haven't been on IGN in years. Unrelated, but how can a site that used to flaunt "babes" (similar to Barstool's smokeshows) now be full of journalists that all without a doubt have Dave Portnoy blocked. Anyway, it's really hard to replace talent and chemistry - especially now that truly talented folks have platforms to sustain themselves.

Anonymous

Unfortunately, one of the many problems with almost all journalism now is that rather than gather the facts and create the narrative, journalists have decided their narrative in advance and gather only the facts that fit nicely.

Brian Dewire

Everyone points at Jason w/ Kotaku as the gold standard for actual gaming journalism, but this simply isn’t the case anyone. He’s embraced the same leftist bullshit as everyone else and is actively working to unionize the entire industry, a problem that has infected most of his articles.

Eric Smith

Now this....THIS is a perfect example of Sacred Symbols plus, this is why we support you guys. Great Episode

LastStandMedia
>>28765551

It's just too bad Jason can't write anything without injecting the same exact political lines into his work anymore.

LastStandMedia
>>28770126

I really like having differing opinions without being disagreeable, rude, or mean. I think we do that here, but I will obviously leave that up to you to decide!

LastStandMedia
>>28770983

I've heard of him, and I actually remember the trailer for that random PSP game he did (I think it was PSP) like 10 years ago. The trailer was passed around a lot, it was funny. I've not watched his work on Kotaku, though. No.

Jeff Pollard

Awesome episode! If you hadn't mentioned Chris was in New York, I would have sworn he was in the room with you.

Phil’s Sphincter

Congrats to your editor. And congrats to Chris “ Chris is safe “ .

Anonymous

I really loved this episode. I think that Colin’s point about being willing to be wrong and take ownership of those mistakes is really indicative of the larger sense of humility with which he approaches all his content. I love the sacred symbols stuff the best, because I think Chris is a perfect cohost, but this mentality emanates through everything that CLS does. I think that’s the big difference for me. There was a time when I was a Patreon of another big gaming group, and I was pretty pleasantly surprised to see that Colin had just about matched their donors and total amount without nasty feeling pledge drives, membership tiers, and constant harassment. Let the content speak for itself and protect your integrity before your bottom line. Thank you for years of great content, I have been listening to you since the beyond days, and unless you start a separatist little people hating cult I think I’ll probably stick with you for the long run. Great job guys, keep it up! Kevin

Steve

Good episode! I agree completely about Jason Schrieirieirier. I’ve had that same thought. Great minds think alike!

Nlindz27

Great episode, touched on some really great topics and I agree with what was said. Entertainment Media in general is in a bad place at the and are looking for reasons to dislike a product. IGN's review of Rambo is a perfect example, the reviewer clearly didn't like action movies which is fine but why review a movie which is clearly geared towards an action audience,theg then gave a brief over view of the series which was inaccurate as the reviewer stated that the first movie featured rambo murdering police officers (he kills no one in that film) the reviewer then steered the review to basically label Rambo last blood as a racist movie as he was killing Mexican cartel members and claiming the movie depicts Mexico as a drug and crime haven (they are the cartel after all the movie isn't going to paint a nice picture of the villains) the worst thing about this is the fans comments corrected the reviewer but instead of the reviewer editing the review to admit they were wrong or that mistakes were made ign just disabled the comments. It's proof that these sites don't respect their audience.

Nate McKinney
>>28806449

Rambo does kill one police officer in the first movie. But other than that you're spot on.

Ryan Murdoch

This was a very interesting talk!. I actually just listened to Game Scoop before this, that is a show that I still really enjoy (Daemon is great). However to your point about having a small team of experts, they had Justin Davis, and they were discussing Death Stranding. He was giving his opinion's on the game, but later stated that he had not actually played it, and had only been playing apple arcade games for the past few months. Why should I care then! WHYYYY!! bah. I love you guys.

Anonymous

Got a kick out of you trying to pronounce my name, despite you butchering it beyond belief ;)

Michael Schofield (making Audio Dramas)

This has been a super interesting topic in gaming for a the last year or so. I do strategy and research at a news media startup, and watching the landscape shift around the question of what journalism _is_ today, whether it works as a business model, whether users aggregate around a news product because of how it performs journalism or because it serves a different need* has been peculiar and fascinating.

DB Cooper

Great episode! Extremely fascinating and not something I had heard had happened, but it’s eye opening hearing your thoughts and coverage on stuff like this. Deadspin has always been about sports so I was confused when you guys went over it. (The other issues are definitely running rampant in the film industry. Not just in the trades but especially the effect it’s having behind the scenes. Especially the deeper coverage and not the just surface level “this guy is cast” or “this guy is directing” but when certain studios or distributors are involved or behind the scenes execs etc.). Loving these plus episodes!

LastStandMedia
>>28817402

Yeah, I can't say I understand that. You can always rely on me to play games deeply, and people can always follow my Trophies for proof!

LastStandMedia
>>28832040

My opinion is that journalism has a big space for opinion-driven content. I simply don't understand portraying everything through a single lens, or having no balance. If I were a Kotaku or a Polygon or an IGN, I'd hire a conservative or libertarian writer, and let them have their say. Then again, last time I said that on Twitter, I was abused for it. LOL.

LastStandMedia
>>28834083

The Deadspin editors vastly overestimated their power, and that of their union. There are no winners in that situation, including G/O.

Omar Rosa

Another great episode fellas! I'm very interested to see where games journalism will be a year (shoot a couple of months) from now.

Brent

With regard to the comments on “crunch” for video game development. I really appreciate the hard work, blood, sweat and tears the most talented industry professionals put into their products. And most times it is time we’ll spent and there is much praise for their efforts. However, I don’t think it’s right to go after companies for this. To lend perspective, I work construction to build highways and bridges. There are many 12 and 16 hour work days sometimes 6 or 7 days a week. There is an aging construction force. I see people my fathers age literally digging ditches and filthy all day soaked in sweat working in the heat. In the rain. Snow. You name it. People literally die while doing this work and receive very little praise or recognition. We drive on highways and bridges built on these peoples backs and take it for all for granted. Just saying these are two different worlds but I really can’t sympathize with folks working long hours in front of a computer terminal in air conditioned offices.

JusticeSoulTuna

Game journalism has been laughably bad in recent years. It is textbook case of people who have gotten complacent, cynical and disdainful of their audience because all they see is the people and opinions that they don’t like. It’s an insular industry full of ‘woke’ types, constantly competing to out-virtuous each other, because a decent amount of them are (ironically) corrupt, creepy, or unjust. So they project that to the audience, they preach repentance to people, and they sit opulent in their questionably gotten gains. ‘Out of touch’ is an understatement. And the funny part is how childish they’ve acted once YouTubers and Twitch streamers have started to make them irrelevant, because these newer age entertainers actually tell it like it is, respect their audience and generally just not treat them like shit. There was a time when I liked and respected gaming media for providing much needed and very valuable insights into the industry, sneak peek coverage and all those glorious trailers. But now, they’re just the bitter old guard, blind to their position of privilege and struggling for relevance. They’ll get no sympathy from me.

Anonymous

I know the exact moment that Kotaku/Jason Schrier/Splitscreen lost me. I was listening to the Kotaku Splitscreen podcast about 3 months ago, and they were discussing a bi-partisan bill regarding loot boxes that was headlined by Senator Dan Crenshaw. I don't have a problem with games journalists discussing topics like that, as it is germane to the industry. However, during the discussion, one of the hosts commented on how great it was that the bill was receiving bi-partisan support, and they were surprised that Crenshaw was championing this cause. At that point, one of the hosts said, "Yeah, but he's a Republican.", and the other host responded, "Oh yeah, he's a terrible person, but he's supporting a good cause." So, I guess at this point, being a U.S. veteran/conservative politician automatically makes you an awful person in the eyes of mainstream games media, regardless of your character, policies, or general demeanor. Woke media is ruining everything Americans enjoy that isn't directly political, and I'm really grateful for what CM and CRG are doing with this podcast! Keep it real guys, and keep up the good work!

Anonymous
>>28858843

Just FYI, it was Senator Josh Hawley that introduced the bill. Schrier did a one-on-one interview with him that was incredibly combative (https://kotaku.com/u-s-senator-says-his-anti-loot-box-bill-has-the-video-1834905639) and at the end decided to bring up a Peter Thiel-related question to him.

Context Should Matter

38:00 I choose to not feed the beast typically. I always check the source of an article and if it lists any website I think posts rage bait and I don't click. I just can't support anything like that. 52:00 Funny the writers of deadspin thought they were worth 15million. They remind me of a bunch of socialists who don't understand the value of money. When they don't get the funding they likely just get angry and blame capitalism and then vote of Bernie or Warren. #Classic

Marc Cairney

Great episode guys!

Jake Mcaulay

As a new patron I just wanna say I'm really enjoying going through all the sacred symbols plus episodes keep up the good work boys

LastStandMedia
>>28847857

I personally don't sympathize much with anyone that works in any job, so long as they're there voluntarily. That said, if you've listened to me long enough, you know I got that deep blue collar love. =)

LastStandMedia
>>28853662

They undoubtedly had their own audience. And the sudden silence around Deadspin just goes to show you: The world moves quick, and your self-destruction isn't news for very long.

LastStandMedia
>>28882267

It's hilarious that they thought (or think) they need that much money to start something. Shows how reliant they are on others' capital, first of all (which fucking rules in its self-ownage), but also shows how detached from the reality of modern media they are. We made Kinda Funny for $10,000. I made CLS for much less than that. Both companies' net profits are far higher than Deadspin's. I promise.

Hozi

Brilliant episode Hope IGN can recover, they still do some good material every now and then.