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Breaking Dawn: NOW It Gets Graphic?! (Patreon)

Published:
2020-10-21 00:38:23
Imported:
2022-01

Content

JUST noticed the timecode I promised for skipping the birth scene description is missing. It's 6:56 if you want it.

Files

Part 2 Mark 1

Comments

Mythologian

yeeeeeah, theres a lot of speculation that stephanie meyer had some seriously traumatic birthing experience

LC

It has been over a decade since I read Breaking Dawn and I still remember where exactly I was when I got to the birthing scene and I remember slamming the book closed because it *horrified* me. To this day I think about it whenever someone mentions childbirth

Anonymous

I met a person once who said her friend wrote a paper for school about how the birth scene was proof that Meyers hates being a mother and despises her kids. I would like to read that paper.

Anonymous

I am one of those people that does actually like twilight. I stop the story after they get married. It's like the rest doesn't exist. Also, the twilight fandom does such a great job at improving the stories and characters that I actually sub in fanfic over the cannon.

Kat Deuchars

My only guess is that, like JKR got lucky with how Harry Potter caught the imagination of a generation, Meyer just had the right story at the right time. If we consider how popular Anne Rice's novels were in the 90s and The Vampire Diaries in the 2010s, it looks to me like Twilight was just the vampire story publishers latched onto for the 2000s.

Halle

I can guarantee you, with absolute certainty, that there isn't a Twilight fan on earth that thinks of Breaking Dawn as anything but last place in the saga. It was a big letdown for everyone. No one wanted the baby-imprinting plot line. No one wanted the huge anti-climax at the end of the book. No one wanted all character development to go backwards. Even the most forgiving of fans will admit that Breaking Dawn overall was a letdown to say the least.

Anonymous

Fan might be an exageration but I did see the movies from #2 and on (I never got round to the books and the first one puts me to sleep) so I evidently found *something* I liked. Mainly I think it was the side characters like Rosalie and Leah. However this was before I cracked my egg so that may have just been me projecting.

Anonymous

Fun fact- I read the birth scene as a ten year old girl. I remember having the book in my hands, putting it down, and then just staring at the wall in horror. I had nightmares about that scene for weeks.

regina burks

The imprinting thing is horrifying for werewolves too, if you think about it even slightly: you don't get to choose. It takes over your entire life. Whatever personality you had before is irrelevant if your imprinted doesn't like it. Had goals your imprintee doesn't agree with, and you'll give them up without a second thought. If all the werewolves were women (and Leah the one dude werewolf who didn't have to deal with it), and you basically get 50s housewife with claws for hands. Ugh.

Melanie Klump

The whole "mother sacrificing her life for her child is beautiful" thing is an idea that's mentioned in The Host by Stephenie Meyer as well. Wanderer mentions at one point that she is one of the rare members of her species with the ability to reproduce. However, the ability to make millions more of them would come at the cost of her own life, and as such, motherhood is sacred among her kind.

Anonymous

Wow. It's been years since I read this book, so I had completely forgotten about Leah's issues surrounding not being able to have kids, that that made her less of a woman. Fuck you indeed, Stephanie Meyer.

Robin Hildebrand

.... I didn't think going into this video I would come out of it adamant that there needs to be a team Lea. She didn't deserve to be done dirty like that.

Anonymous

As an ex Mormon I agree that people of Meyers’s generation in the church seem to latch onto the idea that was taught that motherhood is the greatest thing a woman can accomplish in both this life and the afterlife, and choosing not to/being unable to have children is something the culture looked down on. Luckily people in my generation see through it and as an asexual I’ve been able to make friends with Mormons my age and younger that see nothing wrong with not having children. But these books really bring me back to my church days, yeesh.

Magical Mr. Mistoffelees

30:10 Well, I'm a history buff. I enjoyed the backstories and vampire-world-setup the most. Does that help?

Anonymous

Okay, seriously, are we ever going to get the full album of il Neige's parodies?

DK Jones

This reminds me of the concept Lindsay Ellis discussed in her Whole Plate series about how the framing of something sticks with people better than the thing itself. Everything is framed as super romantic so we believe it is.

LiannaBlanca

I've been angry about Leah for a long time, but you made some points I hadn't thought of and now I'm furious all over again

Exquisite Williams

As a fan since I was like 13 (which was honestly to young to read this) I can say that the thing that was most interesting was the fandom and the way the characters were taken and rewritten. When I say that the fandom really changed and provided depth to the story it’s true. You should look into the twilight fandom I will have to look and find the old websites. Plus Meyer created these cool back stories for all the background and secondary characters that her main characters are so boring in comparison too. Leah was done so dirty. Also midnight sun is better in that it explores the side characters more and kinda shows the family dynamic better.

Courtney Rayle

So, I am not a fan, nor defending fans of this series, but I have noticed that sometimes the world a creator makes can be super appealing, although not necessarily the EXACT world. For example, I know many of my friends do not like JK Rowling ATM, nor do they like her world as she wrote it (particularly the love potion/rape stuff), but they like to write fanfics wherein they make things different, or draw pictures of characters/moments that stuck with them, or even use some of the world-building as a starting point for other things (D&D campaigns is a big one). They still call themselves fans of the Harry Potter series, but they aren’t specifically fans of the series, more like some concepts and quite possibly the fandom/fan base around it. So too it could be that there are people who aren’t necessarily fans of every thing in the Twilight books, but like the concepts/world (or even “fixing” those things via fan comics and fanfics), and so they get labeled as fans and did spend money on the books and movies, even though they share your exact thoughts abut how horrible much of the books were. I guess it’s liking the potential that could have been and deciding to run with that rather than liking the actual series/characters/plots/events/etc. Quite frankly, I have to say, I have enjoyed many a review of these books and the movies, despite that I will never read nor see them myself, so in a way, maybe I am tangentially a tiny bit of a fan too?

Ioana Sofonea

Thank you for sharing! I am a fan, of some of the scenes. And when I was reading the books for the first time I was a vampire fan. I like to see what each authors imagination brings to the table and how they change the lore to fit their world. First time I read the books I was 20. I would read anything I could find. And I did not think that hard about it. Since then I have read them again but chose to skip the birthing. And just comiserated with Leah about the injustice of her situation. ...

Anonymous

Twilight: the unfortunate series of “all the side/minor characters being infinitely more interesting than the mains.” Seriously though, as I progressed past age 13, so many of the romantic themes in this series gave me the “ick” feeling but I could never fully explain why. You verbalized it so well, thank you so much

Addison

I've been Team Leah for a LONG time. Also they did Rosalie dirty in this book, completely erased her character except for "baby crazy". Ugh. I was a fan until Breaking Dawn, finished reading it and had a bizarre epiphany where I just sort of went "huh........were these.........always bad?"

Anonymous

Well i was a huge fan of Twilight. And i really liked the last book. And i can tell u why. Its not pretty, but here it goes: I had really bad luck with all my relationsships. Imprinting seemed to me like a godsend gift, someone that would never aver betray me. Always care for me, be the best, they can be, just because i EXISTED. I loved it. And hoped it would happen to me. The Leah and Jacob stuff was never something i really thought about. I just wanted someone to love me uncoditionally. I enjoyed the transformation, and still do, cause i think, its one of the only times, Meyer was really good in her writing. The imprinting on a child was something that i never spent any thought about. The implications were never clear to me. Why would they, i could imagine that someone actually was FORCED to like me, to care about me. i really thought, i would never find someone that liked me for being me. BTW, it was my gaslighting Ex that showed me the books. He really liked them. He was.. like Edward. In the most disturbing way u can think of. He would not let me do anything i enjoy. Cause he said, that i had to do it only with him. I was hugely involved in our Schoolmusical. And he tried to forbid me from going to the rehearsals. Because i should only play for him! (I played the violin back then). Isaw these books as proof, that he really loved me. Cause.. thats how romance works, right? It gave me comfort "knowing" this.

Anonymous

I have actually no idea why I liked these books as a teenager. I guess they really taught me that romance is stalking and obsession. Everyone read the books so I had to read them too. I ended up being in an abusive relationship with a girl. I don't want to talk about the details but I excused her behaviour by the fact that she loved me so much. I really think those books and all the other supernatural romance books are bad role models. But I was to young to see that. (Btw. No worries I got over her and I am in a healthy relationship now).

Yvonne Hanafee

I guess I’m just weird. Breaking Dawn is actually my favorite, because it’s the only one where Bella actually gets anything she wants at all. She gets to keep her baby, finally gets turned after spending about 3 books begging for it, Jacob finally gets over her (in the creepiest possible way, of course), she’s uncomfortable with extreme wealth, but she gets a cozy little house instead. She has to fight tooth and nail for these things against people who should never have opposed them, but she gets them and that had never happened before. Part 3 is the only part of the series I ever reread. I do credit the birth scene and preceding pregnancy scenes with at least part of my tokophobia, though.

Anonymous

OMG I... never got to see all the drama in this book series. Thanks for sharing... I... guess? XD I lost a friend, because I fought over the toxic stuff in the first book with her. She loved that stuff and I was like "MEHHH EWWWW!" xD And I was a really naiv teenager... Screeming twilight fans, that was so weird for me. But I also had my problems with the lack of empathy in the harry potter books. I was a very very very sensible emo teenager... o_o"

Anonymous

I will tell you why I liked these books. I think I thought this is what love was, growing up in a broken home, without a make role model, and it shaped my relationships, I was in a 3 year relationship from age 15 with a guy who would spoil me, had a good family who were welcoming and caring, but then he was also controlling, and would talk down to me, including infront of my friends. I tried to leave but a bit like Edward he would say he would kill himself if he could not be with me. I eventually broke free after 3 years. Now looking at these books and my relationship I see how toxic both are.

Anonymous

I enjoyed reading the books as an adult mostly because I genereally enjoy magic/occult stories. I like the world building and imagining what kind of person I would be in that kind of world. And I have a hard time being outraged about problematic elements in a fictional story because it's fictional so I'm not tormented by it like I am watching the news on a regular week day.

Anonymous

I like soulmate stories to some degree; it's kind of comforting to think there's someone out there who'll accept you as you are. But there's an undeniable creepiness factor involved in them, because they make a world where free will and autonomy mean absolutely nothing. This particular example takes it further than most, because at least most variants allow for the soulmates in question to still have their own personalities. Also science in vaguely supernatural nonsense rarely makes sense, and I wish more people would leave it out. I find people rarely notice if you just leave it as vague supernatural nonsense, but they will notice if your science clashes with the vaguely supernatural nonsense. edit: although it's not just cis women getting the Here For Babies And Nothing Else treatment, it's pretty much anyone perceived as one. NB and trans people don't get away from it, unfortunately. Dear god, though, that description of Leah as Not Female Enough- yikes is not strong enough, but I don't have better words.

Anonymous

You are doing great. I still will never read the books, but I now know why. Take some time and enjoy some other grater author and enjoy there writing. If you want to get some suggestion, Malazan book of the fallen ar grate, anything from Terry Pratchett, Mumin is funny and getting popular again, anything about Robin Hood. Warm hugs and a cup of cocoa for you amazing work.

Micaela Sparrow

While the assumption that having difficulty or being unable to have children makes you less of a woman is obviously wrong, it is a legitimate feeling that I know is experienced by a lot of women who struggle with fertility. So while I would like to see someone in universe stand up and deny it when it is an opinion expressed by women in media, I think it is realistic to have some of these women express that thought. Great video though, I really enjoyed it.

Anonymous

I always thought of the imprinting like "fated pairs" in omegaverse, in that it's a thing neither person has a choice in, which is utterly terrible, but not either person's fault. Not at ALL a fan of these books, but surprisingly I found this book the most interesting out of the four, perhaps because it introduced the most interesting ideas (not that they were good or well-executed, but definitely interesting), and I did like the side characters Leah, Seth, and Rosalie even to some extent if I recall correctly. I also felt less uncomfortable about the imprinting of Jacob and the freaky baby than the regular sort considering she grew so fast that basically he had no chance to groom her (not to mention the fact that "Nessy" always treats him like a pet/slave anyways....)

Mythologian
>>46214564

I worked at a bookstore when the 4th book came out and remember having to warn parents buying it for their preteen children that it had seriously graphic violence in it unlike the prior books. It was just so fucked up.

Mythologian
>>46216618

Watching these reviews is making me realize I pretty much forgot everything outside the insanity of ‘half-vampire baby’ and the birthing scene. I think my brain just could not handle that much crazy. But yeah, fuck you, Stephanie Meyer.

Mythologian
>>46225304

Sadly, I think cases like yours are why Dom (and others) are so angry over the terrible gaslighting and grooming being justified as “twu luv” in these books. It and its horrible offspring 50 Shades created a perception that such attitudes and actions are acceptable and actually something to look for in a partner or emulate. This then gave people something they could point at to justify their terrible actions or why they stay in a terrible situation (your case in point). “I love you like Edward loves Bella” seems super romantic on the surface, and if you’re not properly educated to recognize red flags in relationship behavior, or have an adequate support system to help you see thats not healthy, you end up thinking “everyone knows Edward’s the peak of romantic and what you should want in a boyfriend. Otherwise the books wouldn’t be so popular, right? This guy must really love me”. It normalizes abusive behavior as not just acceptable but something to want in a relationship. I’m sorry that you went through that and experienced the shitty results of that normalization firsthand.

Celltj Jones

I'm really impressed by how eloquently you are able to explain horrible things like gaslighting and grooming! However, I'm sure it was emotionally taxing to earnestly read through this book and then to have to discuss the toxic behaviours shown. Hats off to you mate but your well being is always more important than these videos and I hope you can spend time doing literally anything else before continuing.

Anonymous

I would chalk up my enjoyment of the Twilight saga the first time to just being a silly 11-year-old who was incapable of thinking critically or taking things past face value. Meyer says this is true love? Therefore, it must be true love. Bella and Edward say they're in love all the time, but never talk about the reasons they love each other beyond "your blood smells delicious" and "you're so hot? I " Didn't matter to me. I fell away from the books quickly after the fourth one, partly due to not finding them particularly fun to reread (and this is coming from a girl who has read Harry Potter 19 times) and shame from the intense backlash that surrounded it. I read them again when I was 20 to see whether I could recognize all the insidious messaging I had heard about that went right over my head and I was HORRIFIED by these books. They're not quite as bad a Fifty Shades of Grey overall, but I was shocked at how toxic they were.

Anonymous

One thing the only things I did notice when I was 11 though was the pushing of white beauty standards above all else. I guess it was because I wanted to imagine myself as a vampire, but I couldn't since all of them were described as having "pale white skin" all the time. Whenever we got a vampire of color, they too would be white-washed to have nothing more than a "faint olive tone" (Maria comes to mind). And don't even get me started on Nahuel's mother (she was the most beautiful in her tribe because she was white) or her depiction of the Amazonian vampires as wild and uncivilized. I hope you're able to touch on these things in your next video because it did in a way make me feel left out of the fantasy- you know, before I wised up and realized these books were poison. Also, fuck Confederate Jasper!

Anonymous

*** EDIT: I noticed the timestamp of the graphic content warning on the uploaded YouTube version is significantly earlier (6:19 vs. 6:56) but 6:56 seems more appropriate from my perspective. Heads up! *** Dom, thank you for being so sensitive toward those of us for whom that birthing scene is so traumatizing and for including that graphic content warning. I love your videos and wanted to see your analysis, but as someone who had severe tokophobia BEFORE reading this book, that scene wasn't something I ever wanted to relive again. You rock!

Anonymous

thank you for doing this analysis like a decent human being you are. Sometimes I get scared that people are irredeemable. Your work helps to exhale and go outside again.

Ly Jalao

Based on Meyers overall heteronormative messaging, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that LGBTQ+ people probably don't even exist in this universe. Can you imagine if werewolf Seth decided he wanted to transition to a woman? If his sister is treated as some sort of mutant mistake for not being able to have babies, despite being born biologically female with all the "right parts." How would Seth have been treated for wanting to transition to female? It would have probably been written even worse by Meyers.

Anonymous

I wanted to say I appreciate when you talk about and sympathize with issues that women deal with like the expectation to be a baby machine. I am a woman who is child free by choice and it is fraught with judgement. People always chide me and say I will change my mind someday and realize I want children. I can’t find a doctor who will agree to sterilize me because I might regret it or I don’t have any children. I appreciate people who see having children and being child free as equally valid options. Thanks for being an understanding human toward others.

Syntia13

Oh hey, the shirt is back! Here's a virtual taco (chili flavoured), and never doubt that you're very pretty. :D Also, hell yeah kitty break! Also - only one more of those to go, hurray! :D Also, thank you for all the commentary re: period, babies, inherent value, and so on. As a uterus having human who'd had to deal with some very opinionated relatives over the years, I greatly appreciate it.

Anonymous
>>46276376

I have also had the same experiences. If a man wants a vasectomy, doctors will give a wink and sign off, but a woman who wants sterilized (or even a 3-year IUD)...'what if you change your mind?' Mention adoption, and doctors are horrified. Point out proven genetic issues that mean your child is guaranteed to have life-long chronic pain and disabilities and they chide you for wanting to practice eugenics. That's not even getting into the worst of the arguments: 'What if your husband wants a child?' Really?

Josie

I think you need a Team Leah shirt to replace the Team Jacob one lol. Also, for some vampire fights that are actually written about, read The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner! It's probably the best one out of the whole series lol

Erica Borgers

I commend you on how well you covered these and touched on important issues which are oft overlooked. Amazing! I do hope, however, that you find some lighter fare for the next bout for a break!