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One Piece Episode 79 UNCUT REACTION! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-12-20 13:00:27
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Will.Har310

I’m pretty sure most people in One Piece don’t ever venture far beyond their islands. It’s mainly just Pirates, marines, and the occasional adventurers going out and learning about things like Eternal Poses. Even in the Grand Line where Devil Fruits are more common, you’ll still see citizens going, “what, i-is that a Devil Fruit,” as if they rarely see them.

Nicolas LeBlanc

I really appreciated the discussion. I think your points are valid that log poses do dimish Nami's role. I also think Log poses, if you find an island outside of your linear path, won't work but don't quote me one that. I can't say shit, but there will be more and I do think Oda had thought of 1-2 of them and invented a bunch of other things at the last minute. As for the whole stars and sun thing the only thing I can think is lensing effects in the sky and gravity impact on light. When air is hot it creates mirage and bends the path of light due to a change in the index of refraction see Snell's law or think of looking in a pool how things are distorted. Gravity also bends the path of light as seen by the ring of light around the moon during a solar eclipse, but this is me making excuses for Oda.

Damon Sun

and in case you havent heard of it yet. They are doing a complete groundup remake named 'The One Piece'.

Boldcast
>>124968885

yeah and thats the thing here, Occam's razor. I Think its just more likely that the guy who is known for quality storytelling, did not just FORGET about how navigation works in his gigantic series that is completely about exploring the open seas, but instead created the log poses to streamline the story, and create anticipation in the viewer. So I think its was a trade off, but the way the start of the grand line went (laboon to whiskey peak), i get the feeling that there were trade offs that he didn't consider when he first introduced them, and slowly those trade offs start to rear their head and negatively impact his freedom within the story. He's simplifying things to make them easier to understand, but he might not have considered how constricting that would be, thus requiring him to introduce multiple things that kinda remedy that. like the eternal poses, and Nami's meteorology gland that she must have in her body somewhere lol We can accept it, but if we notice a little bump, we're gonna talk about it

Nicolas LeBlanc
>>124968885

Which is why you are the only channel I am a patron with. I appreciate the yapping.

EOussama

Fantastic discussion, one of my favorites actually. All valid points to raise, especially this early into the story. One significant aspect to consider is the narrative perspective of a select group from the East Blue. The information we receive primarily originates from these characters, who are outsiders to the Grand Line. In a world lacking advanced technology and communication, news tends to be delayed, distorted, and often resembles folklore. Most tales about the Grand Line come either from East Blue natives who have never ventured there or from fleeting visitors like the Krieg Armada, whose stay was short-lived. Yet, upon arriving at the Grand Line, we're met with a surprising reality: numerous inhabitants who are native to its islands. They have been living there all their lives, a stark contrast to the secondhand stories we've heard. This phenomenon is partly due to the world being segmented by the Grand Line and the Red Line, resulting in a general ignorance about events in other parts of the sea. Even the Straw Hats, hailing from the East Blue, are initially unaware of these realities. The reason why organizations like Boroque Works work effectively and why the Navy seems more informed is because of their inherent knowledge about the world's state. As the primary policing force, the Navy, or expansive, covert networks like Boroque Works, possess extensive information. They have the means and resources, like eternal log poses, which give them a significant advantage over the more disorganized and resource-limited pirate groups. This disparity in information and resources is a critical element in understanding the dynamics within this world. As far as the navigation rules that Oda bound his world with, I guess just like you guys said, it's to drive the plot a certain way and create tension. After all, the world of One Piece doesn't have to follow real-world logic.

Photonium123

It is pretty jarring how Nami's weather forecasting ability just comes out of nowhere. It isn't foreshadowed at all in the past, rather there was a lot of map-making stuff which has not been used so far

Tomas

What's that? The trade of knowledge of sea travel is inconsistent in a world with universal governmental control? Now way! Misinformation about what's known as the main path pirates wish to take in thier lives? There would be no reason for that for sure. Also you guys gotta remember theres 6 other magnetic trails to travel across the grand line, and surprise Luffy isn't the only 20 something year old who's decided to make their way through the Grand Line. You need to grasp it's not only avoiding storms that navigation skills assist, look at Vivi she understood by they state of the sea around them that there was a chance of an island near by. An island she knows about because it's close to her home. As for the Sun and the stars, I'll mention it again you can just hit fog or snow and be dragged off along the wrong route without knowing. And fog would follow the wind, you'd be stuck sailing along with it, letting it easily trail you off into the calm belt. Having a compass that actually consistently points in one direction is the one thing to hold to in the chaos, I don't understand how that's not understood. Maybe you just don't comprehend the idea of sea travel and having to use both waves and wind to move. As for Nami's maps, finding other people's knowledge of the earth is part of the process of making the full map of the world, she doesn't have to travel everything herself. "I doubt that Oda was thinking of whatever justification nullifies all of our criticisms " Dood, you guys had trouble explaining how entering the grand line worked after the live action literally drew it out for you and Carlson understood that Reverse Mountain had the crew enter the west blue, when it had been mentioned a dozen times that it was specifically the only way to enter the Grand Line, that they got to it specifically to get to the grand line. You can't even say that Laboon's origin threw you off since they said he was from the west blue, why would they say from? The guy's been explaining just fine, he's just going to have to spell it out for you again when they explain marine travel past a flock of delivery seagulls. I felt like making a big comment because you made a huge post episode discussion.

klairvoyance

This is rather gonna be me doing the leg work for Oda/nerding out a lil bit, but there's a actually quite a "simple" explanation to all this (not simple enough for a kid's manga tho I suppose, so that's maybe why). The only reason celestial navigation is a reliable tool to traverse the seas in our world is because of earth's relative stability of its axial tilt. It's what creates seasons and makes weather somewhat predictable here. While a variable axial tilt would result in: a) the positions of stars constantly changing, making them useless as navigation markers, b) slight changes of the sun's position & length of a day, rendering solar/time-based navigation useless, c) unpredictable seasons, d) effects on the world's magnetic field. This doesn't sound too far off, to me at least, in a world where the Red Line & Grand Line actually run diagonally across the globe, as opposed to being the equator & meridian. As for the other points touched upon in the end discussion, I shall remain silent for now.

lionstooth
>>124968885

If you think about it this is a big problem alotta first time DMs and even experienced DMs.. experience when writing a story. Have these cool set ups for traversal/etc but when you get to it you find it more or less just henders the story than helps it so it gets scrapped after a few uses. Like in theory its cool but no one wants to read 10chapters of them getting lost and enduring storms.

Manu_C

I'm pretty sure navigating consists of more than just following a compass. The reason they won't sail at night without Nami is because she has the experience to recognize the winds/waves, etc, and make proper judgement calls.

Ty
>>124981982

With hindsight it def should have been in nami's backstory somewhere

unlucker

A lot of your gripes in the post conversation seem to be based on assuming without being told, that Alabasta was the next island. That was never stated, they were looking for a log pose to the next island but instead ended up with an eternal pose to Alabasta. Their dilemma is whether they head straight for Alabasta, or detour to the first island they encounter no matter what it is, to look for a doctor.

Photonium123
>>124984360

The point they are making is that it is supposed to be incredibly unlikely to just stumble upon a random island. So the decision is like "If I stumble upon a doctor randomly, let's go!" They never assumed Alabasta is the next island afaik

Anonymous

Nami’s role isn’t necessarily diminished by the log pose. Being a navigator in the series isn’t just about following the pose from island to island. What separates good navigators in the grand line from the rest is being able to pick up the slightest changes in the weather and guide the crew away from or through the random natural disasters or occurrences that can happen at any time while staying on course.

unlucker
>>124984360

how do they know the likelihood of stumbling across an island when they have not seen a map, and if the destination is an island in the same area, but not the next island in the "path" it doesn't seem unlikely to come across other islands on the way..

Artimes

This is where the story really starts to open up a little and oda has more of an established flow in mind at this point. Setting up plots and forshadowing is going to be a big thing. I think this is where fans consider OP to really show its worth as a series.

David Butt

So here's the thing with the whole Log Pose discussion. Sure they could just go in a straight line cause they have the pose that points to the next island, but what if a storm starts, what if a whirlpool is in the way, what if there’s an iceberg, what if the weather changes, what if the wind changes, that’s what they need a navigator for, they need someone to be able to predict stuff like that and navigate around it which is what Nami is for.

Boldcast
>>124984360

The point is that they were stressing about a decision that they couldn’t make. Based on what everyone has said about the grand line, how much of a “death sentence” sailing without a lot pose is, the idea that they have a choice between following the pose to alabaster and randomly sailing the open seas until they find an island goes against what we know about the grand line. The grand line was not set up to be this heavily populated interconnected world that it has turned out to be. We’re not just making stuff up here we’re going off of what the show is giving us up to this point

Boldcast
>>124990005

I get that this is where the series is going with navigators, but up until the log pose introduction, a Navigator was set up to be more akin to how it is in real life, Nami was just more talented at her skills than others so she picked up on things earlier. Navigation in real life isn’t just “feeling” the ocean and the wind and making random guesses on what to do. Every character talking about the grand line has basically laid out that if you go in without understanding what to do, you’ll die almost immediately. So Nami was a skilled navigator who can use her *skills* in order to gather information, and make judgements on their situation. But the log pose takes all of the nuance of that job away, relegating her to need a superpower to sense the weather rather than using a barometer or another rudimentary tool for the job. With the information we have up to this point, this whole thing is a clear choice by odd, but again, I think it was a choice for his story that at the time had unforeseen consequences that he might not have considered, which to me explains this situation with nami

Tope

Anonymous

I always assumed that Log Pose shows general direction to the island, but to use them effectively you need more than just sail in strait line - like knowing when and where change the course slightly to acount for currents changes, wind changes and avoid obsticles like rock formations or whirpools, especialy in Grand Line where you can hit some crazy weather or weird water current and land in Calm Belt. So I belive that Nami's navigation skills are much more complex than just knowing in which direction to sail and she so good at navigating thet she can take into account all those variables just by seaing and feeling chages in air. Also I don't know if it's just a theory or if Oda confirm that it was his reasoning, but the Nami's passive power of feeling incoming weather changes is a pun becouse she's a "CAT" burglar and historically sailors was often bringing cats on ships because their fur and ears can detect static changes and atmospheric pressure changes making them nature's weather forecasters. But of course One Piece is quite fluid series and Oda very famously adds some crazy big things and character he thought out just week earlier but are super important and shake the entire series so ther will be inconsistencies and little bit of "retconing" along the way making rules of this word more stable Either way love yours reactions to the series, also big fan of long discussions, even if I not always fully agree with some takes and criticism

Artimes

Linsey's like "My teeth are starting to hurt"

Artimes

Correct Carson, i see what you’re saying. It’s not like the grand line is the legendary place of EDEN an un-explored territory where no man has ventured to before. Granted you will meet places like this in the world of OP for example Raftel? but the grand line as a whole is a very interconnected part of the world. You will see many different cultures thriving there with their own families, children, common folk and lower-class people in the hierarchy. It is not like entering HELL where only monsters’ dwell. I know the initial setup and concept for the grand line was kind of this mysterious dark foreboding place so its probably clear oda may have changed and altered the idea's behind the grandline. How ever I do think its still a place for pirates. If your a little kid on an island in the middle of the grandline, for the most part your safe if you stay there. Given the theme of pirates though, it is a still a very dangerous area to sale through without any knowledge or experience of the world but it is a place full of life. Here is something you may not know. Originally One piece was supposed to be 5 years in length, oda was to tell a story about gathering a crew of straw hats, facing down the warlords of the grand line and obtain "one piece" and that was it. How ever OP became hugely popular, far more then oda anticipated and there for he started constructing his world to be much more elaborate and complex with many different characters, organizations and places of interest that further expand his world and encompass the lore. This interview was posted after the alabasta saga was published in the manga. I still remember him stating how popular alabasta was in relation to all the other arcs in his manga at the time. I will say we as fans are so happy that OP surged in ratings amongst readers, because it would not be nearly the series that it ultimately became, if it wasn't for the 25+ years of publication Vs. the original planned 5 years. I can’t even imagine how many things would be removed if it was only that short. Of course, you guys are still very early in phase 1 of the story in which there is like 3 phases separated across multiple saga’s into different sub arcs and each time the story dramatically changes its pacing and structure. We are VERY thrilled to see you experience this journey, Its going to be a fun one!

klairvoyance
>>125019910

It's also what one would imagine the World Government would want the people of the 4 seas to think, so they can scare off as many people as possible from entering the Grand Line (to find the One Piece and become pirates)

Tope

Also just a friendly critique as a medium-term BoldCast fan (joined in the Haikyuu era): while I do really appreciate yall's style of reacting, I do think yall may open yourselves up to more criticism/backlash when you frame a lot of things you don't understand or haven't yet seen the conclusion of as "oh, well Oda clearly didn't think about this" or "Oda can't have thought that far ahead" or "Oda must have just changed his mind about this." Although you mentioned in this reaction that you're not intending to position yourself as more intelligent than Oda, these types of comments unfortunately really give that impression, especially for people newer to your channel. I think sometimes maybe taking a more humble position of "I don't quite get it right now, but I'll put a bit of faith in the author/story and give them a chance to clarify" would still allow yall to freely theory-craft and critique without causing people to quickly jump into defensive mode. And then once you reach the end of a saga, you have more of a leg to stand on on any remaining critiques or inconsistencies. That's just my two-cents!

Artimes

Hey carson and Linsey one more thing I want to ask you guys, do you take notes, you may want to jot down some of your obversations so in the future of the story you can refer back to it. These are very interesting critiques that your coming up with and I want to see how you reflect on these, as you get deeper into the series. Or maybe you guys have photographic memorys lol, i don't know.

Artimes
>>125019910

haha yeah. a little bit of context that the reactors don't quite have yet. There is alot of things that obvously evolve in one piece but again, they are examining it as they see it now. For example in the very early OP the navi was played off as a joke military but obvously that doesn't persist for to long. I think some of there perspectives will undoublty change as they experience more of this world. This is why i said its a great idea to take notes on some of these observations they come up with so it can give them a different outlook in the future.

Anonymous
>>124984360

Not focusing on the log pose or navigation here.haha. I agree with the statement, "the grand line was not set up to be this heavily populated interconnected world that it has turned out to be." But I think if we look back at it, these are all "rumors" from people who have not been in the grand line yet. The same goes with how devil fruits are considered rumors. So when we finally get to the grand line, it's like there's a feeling/thought of "oh that's not what I know about the grand line" or "that's not what I was led to believe." which highlights the difference between how outsiders and people who have first-hand experience described it. I don't know if it's valid, say for the Krieg Pirates who just entered the grand line but destroyed by Mihawk. Since they didn't fully experience the grand line as opposed to how Zeff perceived it (though was not explicitly said). On that note, it is also intriguing how people not from the grand line are getting this information. Where do these stories originate? Who spreads them, and for what purpose. I think one of the comments pointed out the marines since they don't want people go to the grand line and be pirates. This line of questioning opens up a broader discussion about the nature of information within this specific world. I think what I'm trying to say is there's always more side to a story, this is me having trust issues to all characters when they are introduced or stories when they are told especially in the one piece world..lol

Boldcast
>>125022819

We do everything we can to reinforce the fact that we don’t have all the information, and that we don’t expect people to agree with us, and that it’s ok if we’re wrong, and that we don’t think we have any authority, and from our experience, the only way to really stop the backlash is just to not say anything We’re a lot more chill with one piece than other shows, and I don’t even think we’re saying anything controversial. And what’s more is that idk why my comments are the ones being focussed on in these videos when Lindsay is being more negative than I am We detail our thoughts with enough caveats and disclaimers, and couch our opinions in a hefty grain of salt, and do our best to explain how we come to our conclusions as much as possible, and that’s really all we can do aside from just not saying them. But we’re not gonna just say nothing because people dont like what we’re saying. If people want to completely write off what we’re trying to do here, then we’ve already done everything we can. And at some point, it’s not our fault. And the worst thing we can do is stifle ourselves for other people’s satisfaction We will be honest every time, even if we’re not always right, that’s the BOLDcast guarantee .

Veritas

Here's my 2 cents since I rarely think about these nuances. No matter how good your GPS is, you are lost without fuel in the tank. In One Piece Merry is not a motor boat, so fuel = wind/currents most of the time, which can randomly go the wrong way. I think it's simply that without Nami's skills, following a needle is not nearly as easy as it sounds in theory or execution (Zoro would get lost even with the needle). The Grand Line has many obstacles but the weather was always meant to be Nami's role from her first introduction. Even without uncannily predicting weather which tools do, only her actual skills can combine the visual information of wind and current directions and make educated decisions with the sails and rudder.

Artimes
>>124990005

You won't find ship navigation to be applied to real world logic here in one piece. If your looking for a more true logistical rule set behind Coastal navigation with the tactical maniviors, planning, positioning, cartegraphing, ect then there are many other series that focus more deeply on that like Zipang or Blue Submarine 6, Suisei no Gargantia, ect. But this is a shonen, real logic doesn't apply to shonens hardly ever. Still I think oda did a decent job with his protrayal of it.

Jambron

About the Critiques: It's really great seeing you both share thoughts on "One Piece," especially the early parts. Critiquing beloved stories can be touchy for some, but it's a healthy way to engage with the material. Plus, it's clear you're all still enjoying the ride! It's been mentioned already but do take notes about your current thoughts so you can reexamine them when you get more lore etc. Oda's Original Plan: Eiichiro Oda initially had a five-year plan for "One Piece," but the story got extended. This change probably shifted his approach a bit. Having more room to tell your story – that's got to influence how you write it. Early Storytelling: Some things in the early chapters might feel a bit like story devices, a little rough around the edges. But that's understandable. Oda was still getting the hang of weaving everything together. It's like when you're writing a story – sometimes it evolves in ways you didn't expect. When you have the luxury of going back to rewrite the draft its a bit different from mangas episodic nature. Personally I often found when writing stories they sort of get a life of their own and drive you in new directions, even if you start of with and follow a solid structure. With the hindsight I still get the sense Oda knew what kind of story he wanted to tell and where it was going, even if some things felt a little more awkward in how they were introduced early on and how he fleshed them out. Navigating with Nami: The role of a navigator in "One Piece" is pretty unique, especially for Nami. She's not just charting courses; she's got this knack for weather and dealing with all sorts of crazy sea conditions. Her skills with weather etc become super important as the story progresses even if its introduced a little late. The Crew's Quirks: Part of what makes "One Piece" fun is how some characters are hilariously bad at navigating (or at just keeping a cool head and having common sense). They really depend on Nami to keep them from getting lost in more ways than one. It adds a nice layer of humor to the adventures. Stopping for the island: part of that was indeed about the priorities and Vivi gaining their respect by putting Nami first. The long stares of judging her speech before she says "the right thing". The implicit thing is that you "could" find a random island on the way, but lose time there vs just ignore it and keep going. Yet yhe conversation seems weird because of the rules of log poses etc, but more than tension it's really supposed to be about the character moment and Vivi proving herself as one of them and putting Nami first. Putting others before her own personal interest. Then yeah, back to Oda getting better at smoothly integrating things over time! World Building: The "One Piece" world starts off seeming a bit quirky, almost like ours but not quite. As you get further into the story, you'll notice it follows its own set of rules and logic. It's pretty unapologetic but fascinating how it all unfolds. And yes part of that does allow him to get creative and have some freedom on completely whacky new characters and worlds. Grand Line Mysteries: The Grand Line is weird, right? There are theories about the "One Piece" world's axis affecting everything, which makes navigating it a real challenge. It's one of those things that adds to the intrigue of the setting. klairvoyance wrote some more interesting things about that earlier. There are lots of theories about this and how Oda has an interest in those things. Oda definitely thinks about the sun and the moon, maybe he does a lot :) Themes of Control: You've mentioned control and power dynamics. This is a key theme in "One Piece." You've already noticed how different groups navigate and exert influence, and it really adds depth to the world Oda's created. Getting confused with it, wondering why some things appear to apply for some but not others, taking a long journey into getting information and understanding certain things over time is kind of part of the process. Please enjoy the ride and keep questionning everything you see! On a complete side note: am I the only person getting so-so buffering on the patreon videos vs the vimeo ones?

Boldcast
>>125044158

I didn’t know about the buffering, if you connect your discord account to your patreon, you can join our discord server, and find the Vimeo links catalogued there And thank you for this great comment, and thank you for listening intently and understanding where we’re coming from. We love this show already and we’re just living it in our own way! And it helps when there’s two of us as well cause we can help each other get past some issues one of us will have here and there (like me bringing up the themes of control to Lindsay when she was questioning the availability of the eternal poses) And thank you for all the information as well. We really appreciate this type of engagement with the videos cause it lets us know that people are really listening and care about what we’re saying!

Artimes
>>125044158

Wow, @J Ambron. amazing comment, Pretty much encapsulates everything that we been trying to or wanting to say in the right words, without going into defensive mode or being controversial because they lack the 1000 episodes of context. Thank you. This 100%

Artimes
>>124984360

Boldcast's comment is still pretty valid here though. They are going by the informaton that is given to them so far. Everything that you are explaining about the details of the grand line being some what conspiracy theories circulating to the common folk is a nuanced descision that oda intregrates into the story at a later date to give it a broader realistic representation of the world. Which deffinitly as a new viewer changes your perspective on the whole thing.

Artimes
>>125014523

wayyy to much information @Tope. They will figure all this out in due time.

Meme Team!
>>124981982

she uses it in orange town and loguetown. its not new, its in the first 20 chapters (we are around chapter 130 rn)

Meme Team!
>>124984360

yea i get what you are saying. I think its supposed to follow the themes of one piece of everyone talking about how scary the grandeline is without seeing it or being pushed away instantly (krieg). Its like people speculating about the one piece. Of course East blue (the weakest sea as stated) is gonna overhype the grandeline. This can kind of be seen again in an example i cant use for 500 episodes lol

Donna

I think it’s more like people not in the grand line don’t know much about it but people that are in the grand line can navigate it better bc the govt purposely don’t give them this info if that makes sense

paws_pau
>>125044158

I agree 100% this is so well written especially when I've thinking some things that I'd use to explain may feel like spoilers so I'd rather not ruin it lol- though the questions have really helped me see why other people might be confused when starting off