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Buffy The Vampire Slayer "New Moon Rising" 4x19 Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2020-03-28 06:44:19
Edited:
2020-11-29 17:27:28
Imported:
2020-12

Content


https://www.dropbox.com/s/wg6ti0k7tpvd4ar/Buffy%204X19.m4v?dl=0

https://vimeo.com/401572497

PASSWORD: Geekedoutnation

Comments

s jaco

I love this episode. For me it's definitely one of the highlights of Season 4. Last episode you mentioned Oz and I was thinking. No... not yet. And here he is!

TheyCallMeJeff

Willow and Tara haven't kissed because it was the late nineties and the network would not let them show it or say anything directly so everything was implied or they used magic as a metaphor for sex. Joss wanted to but the network said no. Good episode over all, a solid 8.

Anonymous

Tara has always had the stutter and it is more pronounced when she is nervous. When Tara met Faith in Buffy's body, she stuttered a lot then too. If you go back through her interactions, you'll notice them.

Briony Addey

The context for this episode is that there had only been a few lesbian kisses on TV at the time. Homophobia was rife. The only space in the culture for lesbian love was a hypersexual version (although this tended not to be in ahem, mainstream entertainment). Therefore the fact that we see the relationship mostly in its non-sexual aspects (although we do have clear indications of their intimacy and the whole 'doing a spell' metaphor!) seemed like a bit of a corrective to this.

Calvin Allen

Tara been had the stutter. Remember Faith was mocking her for it.

Anonymous

Steven so it is heavily implied that they have had sex. The show used " magic and spells" as a metaphor for sex. Look back on the episode " Who are you" when Willow and Tara did the spell to find out that Faith was in Buffy's body. It looked like Willow was having an Orgasm. Also this was the late 90's and the had to be careful how they approached the topic or the Network wouldnt let them run the story.

Launa Sorensen

(Note: So sorry if this ends up a double post, but I think Patreon removed it because I edited it too much? It’s disappeared on my end.) One of my biggest issues with Buffy is how they fall into the bisexual erasure trap a ton of shows (and, tbh, real life) fall prey to. I wish they used the term bisexual more because Willow really was emotionally and sexually attracted to Oz. There was also the unfortunate Xander issue that was clearly also sexual and emotional. I know in real life this kind of thing definitely happens (lesbians who really have loved former male partners) but it would be so much easier to just let Willow be bisexual even if there’s a lot of identity politics around it (both straight and LG people tend to insist bisexuals are “really” one way or the other instead of their own thing.) Still, at the time it was difficult if not impossible to have serious LGBT representation on shows like this. They were usually comedic gay men, gay panic punchlines, or tragedies and bisexuals were either greedy villains or Sweeps Week one-off excuses to get some girl-on-girl eye candy (think the Rachel lesbian kiss ep on Friends.) It was a really rough time for LGBT inclusion and, as others have noticed, you see this in how Willow and Tara can’t even kiss in a moment of dramatic confession. This show did a whole lot for normalizing canon, complex LGBT representation on TV but, as you can see, it was the very beginning and has flaws (both on the show’s end and a whole lot on the production/studio end.) On a specific show level, I also think with Willow the awkwardness is just as much about complex feelings about Oz himself and not just sexuality. He broke her heart then suddenly reappears and that would be confusing for anyone even without sexuality or a new potential love interest being complexities. She had to go through the process of mourning and getting over him so when he’s suddenly back and making advances, it’s going to stir up a lot of conflicting emotion.

o

All the stuff that you are talking about with how they are handling this relationship between Willow and Tara is absolutely correct, but the reason you are able to point out those issues is because of what this show does to correct that, so to borrow a popular phrase from another show ......wibbly wobbly timey whimey.

homoerotic 80s volleyball scene personified

Because of the time, and the network they were on, they couldn't actually have Willow and Tara do romantic and sexual stuff together, so they used magic to represent their love. That one spell in the Buffy/Faith body switch? That was a sex scene.

Moon Logic

I'm pretty sure they've had sex. Willow has spent the night several times. But even if they haven't, WIllow gives Tara her hoodie. As for not showing it, they were struggling against censorship, as they were on the same network as 7th Heaven. Tara has had a stammer since her first episode. I have a stammer, too. I think Tara's is fairly realistic. When you have a stammer, you need to keep calm and concentrate on your speech, which can be difficult when you are stressed or emotional.

Lostmyshoe22

I just wanted to chime in so you’re not only hearing from the impatient ones. I am absolutely fine with the order and time-frame at which you are releasing things.

SpikesEcho

The introduction of Willow/Tara's relationship: The writers aren't avoiding it or scared of offending people.....that's just how it comes across to viewers in 2020. At that time, this relationship was pretty groundbreaking and Buffy was one of the shows that pioneered things for onscreen LGBTQ relationships to become more acceptable and mainstream. The writers were breaking barriers and pushing boundaries--namely fighting against network execs who simply wouldn't allow them to show a lesbian kiss or a blatant lesbian relationship on screen. And the writers thought of really clever, sneaky ways to push boundaries and get things passed the sensors, like the whole "witchcraft as a metaphor for being lesbian" thing, and spells as a metaphor for sex (note the fairly graphic orgasm/sex scene between Tara and Willow when they performed the spell in Who Are You).....that's how the writers were able to get things on screen while their hands were tied. There are stories how Joss had to fight with execs over the Willow/Tara relationship and what he could show....he boycotted at one point if they wouldn't let him show something. So it's pretty important to keep in mind the climate at this time and what the writers were up against, and how they found ways to subvert corporate execs to represent this kind of relationship. Plus at this time our culture didn't yet have a good understanding of someone being bi....it was pretty much just gay or straight.

Jayna

Other people have already addressed this far better than I ever could, but sexuality is complicated and I think for a college aged kid who is just figuring themselves out, it probably is all the more so. I think for Willow she didn't realize herself until she met Tara that she could be attracted to other women, and just discovering that about herself, she was trying to accept this new aspect of herself before she was fully open about it. People do sometimes also have a harder time sharing something big like that with the people they love. They might be fine with strangers seeing it because their opinions don't usually have a big impact on their lives, but not yet be quite ready to deal with the emotions family and friends bring to the table. Even if you think your friends/family will be open to something, you can never quite be sure of how they'll react until they react. Also like others said, this was rarely addressed on TV back then and I think they handled it as well as they could at that time. I've known people who now say they're gay who had relationships with the opposite sex that would seem to suggest otherwise, but I think the labels box people in and make it difficult for them to express their complex feelings and aren't always very useful. I think so many factors play a role with sexuality (it's so combined with other factors as well, emotional needs, traumas, other kinds of attraction other than sexual that draws people together as well. Some people partner up with someone that may not be their sexual attractive ideal all because of other things about the person that they're highly attracted to and that work well in their lives and that they've bonded with and it just works for them and they're happy. Life be complex.), it really isn't something as simple as this person is attracted to males/females/both and that's it. At least not for everyone. It's not even like heterosexually paired partners are all one flavor of sexual and lifestyle either. They're complex as well, in how they live their lives and what they like to do in the bedroom. I've said this before, but take your time and do things in the order you think is best as far as reactions go. Anyone who is pressuring you to rush to do a reaction probably wouldn't like the result of you rushing through just to give a reaction. So just do your own pace.

Mariella Nilsson

i like that they show willow and tara they way they do, I wish they had more creative ways of showing love on tv in general, not only through kissing and stuff, I feel like that is one of the reason their relashionship is not so onedimensional!

Amanda S

About the no-kiss ending scene with Oz... I think because the network wouldn't let them put a Willow/Tara kiss in because "reasons", then it's right that there's no goodbye kiss between Willow/Oz. I don't want the end of one relationship to hold more weight than the beginning of the next.

Allan Cornett

A pivotal episode and one of my favorites of this season. I have been one complaining about the watch order. I finally looked the guide he using and I am so looking forward to the next couple of Angel episodes. After looking forward at what the guide has in store for the future I gave myself two choices. I could wait till after several episodes of each show has posted and watch them in the order I want. I don't like this option because I like to comment when everyone else does that is part of the experience. The second option is to leave after the next two Angel episodes and that is the one I pick. I'm going to miss seeing the reactions but the watch order has ruined the experience.

Anonymous

I think the impatient folks are more frustrated at the one Buffyverse episode a week and not so much the order. Granted, I'm sure there are folks that prefer one show over the other and are always going to sound off when one show gets 4 or 5 episodes in a row. But I think most are looking at the 22 episodes a season of Buffy with the 22 episodes a season of Angel and thinking that it's going to take almost a year to get through just one season of Buffy and Angel. Hopefully, life gets back to normal soon. Or at the very least more manageable so the schedules can back on track. I'm sure it would go a long way to chill out folks who are frustrated.

Allan Cornett

After watching the reaction I understand he wants to avoid spoilers and watch some episodes back to back that the guide he uses is supposed to help with. I have never heard of an example of how watching Buffy then Angel ever resulted in spoiling either show. I looked at the guide he uses and IMHO it destroys the continuity of some of the storylines.

Tarot Discombe

They have not had sex, the scene with that spell, the sexual undertones were just for us, she only smelt of her as she stayed the night and gave her the cardi. They do use their power as a metaphor for sex but for now it's just the feelings they have not the actual act itself. Although at the end of this episode who knows what happened.

Tarot Discombe
>>34336766

Also it's possible Oz could actually smell her feelings, like how animals and demons can smell fear.

Grace

Thanks so much. Everyone who is upset about Angel delays, please stay calm haha. Life is unpredictable, and Buffy is the main story, so that's honestly what should come first any way. Both can really be watched out of order as well. There is no law to the Buffyverse. I understand frustration. I love Buffy more than Angel and get a little sad when there is more Angel episodes out than Buffy, but still I am patient. Let's all be patient and THANKFUL that he is even reacting to them in the first place. I've said my peace haha. And best wishes to all of you in this crazy time. I hope you all are well.

keldarien
>>34334146

I agree completely. Most reactors use the Slayalive watch order, but they don't seem to be getting nearly as many complaints, if any.

o

There is a distinct reason for this watch order, people are being unfair to the person watching this for the first time and that is sad, but you are going to find out real soon, why the "Watch Order" is the way it is. Keep on doing your thing because the only steadfast rule is you can't please everyone, with that being true make sure you are happy first and that is what this Watch Order does, it allows the first time viewer the chance to see it how it was envisioned as a shared Universe.

Christine Ester

We appreciate you and all you are trying to do. Be safe and stay healthy. We will wait patiently for this great entertainment of watching you watch for the first time.

Allan Cornett

I am not upset about the delays. I am upset because of a storyline not continued because of the watch order.

SweetSummit
>>34348612

It does make sense within the watch order though. I was a little upset too until I re watched the episodes myself and see where they actually fall within the continuity.

SweetSummit
>>34348612

^^ To the above, I just really didn't want to see Where The Wild Things Are Again.

Allan Cornett

It doesn’t make sense to me and I have seen both series multiple times. I can’t say more until we are through a few more episodes.

Anonymous

I agree with keeping the Buffy Angel watch order you're doing.

Daniel R

Just a reminder; just because you're donating money for a particular "service" doesn't mean you can dictate how the artist goes about their schedule. This isn't Netflix or Hulu, this is our boy Steven who took the majority vote and will view to which best suits his own lifestyle and I say awesome more power to you. Again, remember, "donation" so temper tantrums over viewing schedules is definitely childish and laughable.

Catherine Thurmond

When it comes to watch order I prefer what your doing and even if I wasn't I'd still say you do what makes you comfortable. As for the Willow and Tara relationship and their lack of intimacy blame the network and time Joss and co. do what they can with the restrictions put on them. Heck QAF hadn't premiered on HBO yet and you know how slow networks are on getting with the times. Just thought I'd tell you so you get kinda the why behind some of the decisions. Great reaction.💜

Hans Olav

No stress about the wait, Steven! You push out mass amounts of content with your genuine opinions and most of us are very grateful. People might skip every intro and haven't understood how you've planned this.

Hans Olav

Also about Oz wanting out of the show. He didn't want out as much as he wanted in on another movie.

Holi117

the Tara and Willow relationship - literally they were not allowed to show them kiss, or be intimate beyond what they've done, sadly. This was one of the first lesbian relationships to be portrayed on TV, especially such a popular show. They were considered as pushing the boundaries at the time it was airing. Tara has always had the stutter. It's noticeable worse for her when she is stressed or emotional. This is a lovely episode.

Holi117
>>34348612

literally no idea what you are talking about or why you are moaning about this on every buffy reaction. The watch order keeps individual show mini-arcs together and keeps timelines for both shows together and in the right order. The watch order (SlayAlive Guide) is one of the best viewing orders to collate episodes into chunks per show, without losing cross-overs or messing up timelines, or losing the momentum of individual plots.

Elise Lanciault-Breton

FOX isn’t the most open minded network and since Buffy was on fox from season 1 to 5, anything portraying an lgbtq relationship wouldn’t be allowed on screen like no kiss, no sex, just holding hands and hugging