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Movie Mindset 03 - Smoking That Shit That Made The Pictures Small: Wilder Classics (Patreon)

Published:
2023-05-10 11:00:04
Imported:
2023-05

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Hesse and Will review two essential classics from director Billy Wilder: 1944’s Double Indemnity and 1950’s Sunset Blvd. Two films narrated by their dead protagonists from beyond the grave, each exploring Wilder’s cynical and dark views of the American character, and our obsessions with fame, success, murder & rapidly quipping while wearing a smart hat.

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Comments

Rohmer Simpson

If you like John Carpenter's CHRISTINE, you should check out Alan Clarke's! Lots in common: the kids are alright, life in suburbia is awesome, heavy reliance on Steadicam.

NYCM&AHole

Hell yeah cigars and trains

Anonymous

Fred MacMurray doesn't die in Double Indemnity.... now how am I supposed to believe either of you know what you're talking about?

Gordon Schmidt

Gonna be so disappointed if there isn't an episode on Kiyoshi Kurosawa. Doing Cure and then like Bright Future would be perfect for this series.

Alec

Movie grindset

NYCM&AHole
>>108230932

Also Film is Dorian gray - they keep aging the more immortal they are on film

Zach H.

If you want to talk about Wilder’s harsh view of American culture you can’t leave Ace in the Hole with Kirk Douglas out of that conversation

Anonymous

god damn, god damn

Ed
>>108231181

He dies in murder-suicide in the book though, right? I pretty sure the studio intervened to rewrite that. Is it valid to read it that way? I dunno but that's how I always told myself it ended.

Rohmer Simpson
>>108231181

IIRC we don't see Neff die onscreen, and there's an implication that Keyes - sorrowfully but in line with the Code's crime-doesn't-pay expectations - will make sure his buddy lives long enough to get the chair (or I think it would have been the gas chamber in California, at the time). You could make the case that it's ambiguous, and that the "crime doesn't pay" point is made, so long as it's clear that Neff dies, either from his wounds or at the behest of the state.... but it would be very unusual, even in this unusual movie, for our takeaway to be that the bullet wound kills him but we don't see him actually expire.

Rohmer Simpson

those John Dahl movies are '93 and '94 btw

William

Lol never heard anyone else mention 1,2,3

kenton

Dumb movies tho please

Anonymous

Favorite episode so far, i think yall are really hitting your stride on this one

Rohmer Simpson

Most of us only know Gloria Swanson from SUNSET BLVD, so it's easy to conclude that she was basically Norma. But if you catch up with latter-day appearances by Swanson on TV (talk shows and I think 60 Minutes did a puff piece where she shows off her Manhattan apartment, MTV Cribs style), it's incredibly apparent that, in real life, she was just a really cool chick, and that any resemblance to Norma Desmond is largely circumstantial. Incidentally, if you want your mind blown, go on YouTube and search "Gloria Swanson Brooke Shields" and watch them (and Barbara Eden) serve up Cole Porter's "What Do You Think About Men?" Trust me on this.

kenton

Hesse and Will look how I pictured Matt and Felix

Don Tickles

Will Wilder was a taxi dancer a taxi dancer not a taxi driver get your head out of your ass long time fan thnx

Anonymous

DYK that there is also an insurance agent named Mr. Neff in Twin Peaks? It's in the first season when Ben Horne and Josie Packard betray Catherine Martell (Piper Laurie) and Neff comes to collect signatures for the life insurance policy Ben and Josie took out on her after they decided to off her in the mill fire. He's equally sleazy, asking Catherine if there's "anything at all" he can do for her in a scene crackling with double meanings after they've uncovered a plot on her life. No way Lynch hasn't seen Double Indemnity a dozen times when he's writing that scene.

Anonymous

These have all been exceptional so far!!! Would love the idea of a Olivier Assayas double-feature built around Demonlover and Irma Vep - both have this incredible Y2K-era energy of the 20th century world dying and the interconnected (and malevolent) 21st century world being born.

Rohmer Simpson

All of Wilder’s 1970s films are very good, but AVANTI! is as great as anything else he made.

Alexander Fuchs

also watch people on sunday from 1930 by wilder, zinneman, siodmak and ulmer 🙏

Adam

i love this episode!

John Leavitt

If you want more background on Sunset Blvd I HIGHLY recommend the printed production dairy by the producer. It’s amazing how many bad choices got reversed and how much tinkering was done on set and on the fly - it was originally a much meaner story, a lot of lines were Ab Libbed, and Charles Isherwood himself did an uncredited rewrite of the ending which had a Psycho style “ah she went nuts cause of the movies!” Stinger (my favorite bit is that in the first script Norma is described as a Gloria Swanson type and they basically exhausted every other older actress in town before getting to her)

Rohmer Simpson
>>108254364

Reminds me of Ricardo Montalbán's "Five Stages of an Actor's Career" Who is Ricardo Montalbán? Get me Ricardo Montalbán. Get me a Ricardo Montalbán type. Get me a young Ricardo Montalbán. Who is Ricardo Montalbán? (Without looking it up, I'd wager this is an old showbiz chestnut that RM branded as his own - and why not?)

William Evans

You two absolutely must watch SHE HATE ME for Movie Mindset. There is not a more on-brand movie from the mid-2000s for this podcast. It’s a Spike joint that features lesbians having straight sex, animated sperm, birth sequences, Watergate, Private healthcare companies, AIDS, and baffling attempts at humor. Love it or hate it, there’s not a more perfect film for this podcast to discuss.

Anonymous

*Alternate timeline where talkies were never made* Norma driving the longest car ever seen through Hollywood. "What the fuck y'all know about this?" *Starts playing sing sing sing so hard it causes movie star 9/11*

Anonymous

still happy to be a patreon supporter and you guys should keep putting out whatever you want. but these movie ones are a basically a different podcast, one that i would not be into. just passing along as supporter feedback. but also, i wasn't into the hell on earth ones either. so basically just saying, i (and probably lots of other patreons) are here for just for main channel content, i.e. contemporaneous commentary, interviews, etc.

Axel Herrera

Two of my favorite movies of all time. This is the episode I was looking forward to the most.

Seth Morton

The hosts are spot on regarding Double Indeminity's existential emptiness. Another note to their reading; the wax cylinder becomes the new confessional. Both prefiguring the age of posting, but more importantly the inversion of the confessions of the flesh. Whereas the act of confession once brought out the inner truth as a means of assuring access to heaven, this confessional consigns one's fate to the past and merely improves the statistical accuracy of the actuarial table. Hell on earth indeed.

Seth Morton

With Hesse's reference of french film I hope we get a couple of entries from our froggy friends. Melville, Goddard, Alain Delon, Army of Shadows, Hiroshima Mon Amor, Jules et Jim -- I know Will is a diehard Le Cirque Rouge enjoyer.

Tommy

I love listening to Will talk and I really love listening to Will talk about movies. This was the best Movie Mindset yet, btw.

Scott Grabel

2002 was such a miserable year in how it solidified our War of Terror, and nothing summarized its monopolization of news for me like Billy Wilder’s death scrolling as text across the bottom of the screen during endless footage of 9/11 and Afghanistan.

Erin Kristina

In 3rd grade, I went to school with Tallulah Bankhead's grand-daughter, or grand-neice. I didn't know who Tallulah Bankhead was, my Mom said they based Norma Desmond on her. I knew Nora Desmond, of course, from the Carol Burnett skit. Finally watched the real movie just now. My mom was wrong about the character being based on her, but it was the 70s, nobody could check on a thing like that

Logan

Can't wait for Matt and Hesse's Marvel episode! Dr. Strange 2 is similar to Double Indemnity.

Rohmer Simpson
>>108275307

Bankhead, who was famously a sex-liker (or infamously, to the scolds of the day), once described herself as "Pure as the driven slush".

Rohmer Simpson

I get that you had to kinda put a clearance sale tag on Fred MacMurray as an actor, versus William Holden - hell, one of them starred in 400 episodes of MY THREE SONS and the other was Oscar-nominated for NETWORK - but the two movies he made opposite Stanwyck - one before INDEMNITY, one after - are high masterpieces: REMEMBER THE NIGHT, a perfect Preston Sturges script directed by the underrated Mitchell Leisen, and Douglas Sirk's THERE'S ALWAYS TOMORROW. Seek them out if you can.

Gulb

I've been to that spot behind the Hollywood Bowl. Saw Beck when he was on tour for Midnight Vultures. Take your special guy or girl to see a show from the woods up there. Highly recommended.

Katana King

Someone's probably already pointes this out, but a huge moment is S3 of Twin Peaks is cooper turning on a TV and seeing Sunset Blvd, the line "get Gordon Cole" is what starts to snap him back to reality

J.P. McD.
>>108275307

Every old time radio show would mention Tallulah Bankhead constantly because the name is funny. I hope Felix learns about her

Tony Millionaire

Wikipedia says he was a taxi dancer but I think there was a goof up.

John Leavitt
>>108275307

She might have confused her with Margo Channing from ALL ABOUT EVE who was 100% a more heterosexual, less cocaine addled version of Tallulah Bankhead - fun fact the writer of ALL ABOUT EVE wrote it in part due to his jealous of his brother being involved in SUNSRT BLVD.

Taylor McFarland

OKAY HEAR ME OUT…. Sunset Boulevard… the musical (just trust me) https://open.spotify.com/track/46KN4mFj7sfL8Oyep4cLnk?si=km571pb_S_eLHYb6wI6PEQ

John Leavitt
>>108296533

(Mumbling while taking a drink) arguably the musical is wildly homophobic but Glen Close was amazing in it and we deserve a filmed version before she dies

Peter Sullivan

Can’t wait for their review of Heat (1995)

Scot Forsythe

“I’m a writer—but hey, no one’s perfect“ (Billy Wilder) 🤗

Dan Hunter

Sunset Blvd or "all I gotta do is flatter and dick this queen and I get to live in a mansion???" Staring: everyone you know.

Anonymous
>>108309132

You can tell this movie was made before the invention of MILFs because it treats having a rich sugar mommy like a bad thing

Dan Hunter
>>108309132

Wilder trying to use human dignity as a plot driver. Americans born after 1983: what is this bullshit??

EaZy E
>>108309132

-“I’m just a common whore.” -“yeah buddy, ain’t it great?”

Ryan

Loving this series, two of my favorite movies ever! If I may recommend a double feature: Cure (1997) and Pulse (2001) directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa. Pulse, specifically, looks at young adults and a world modeled by the internet in a really unique, and terrifying way, and I think links with lots of themes talked about regarding a sort of 'crisis of loneliness' in recent Chapo episodes. Very ahead of its time in talking about the internet, would love to hear both your thoughts on it. Cheers!

Hampus Bystrom

Such a good episode!! Love Wilder. Ace in the hole and The Apartment are my favorites.

Steve D
>>108277832

Also Freddy set up a decent wine operation that’s still going.

etienne

so happy that chris cleaned up the ep tags so it's not like, Israel and Vore with the header from Blowback S2 at the top of the page

chapotraphouse
>>108321922

glad it's appreciated. some day when i'm insanely bored I have to go back and tag every movie/history ep and like, all of this is sus and other major sub-series.

Ty

The Sunset Blvd analysis is stellar

Matt Boi

Max is a cuck???

Claire Casey
>>108315246

Up ahead in the comments Chris and Will both basically confirmed there is a Kurosawa ep coming. To be clear, the one you're talking about, not like, Ikuru, Seven Samurai etc Kurosawa although honestly I'd enjoy hearing Will and Hesse spit on both of them

Anonymous

I’m sure it’s already planned out, but I’m hoping for a network and rollerball episode.

John Leavitt
>>108309132

Swanson on set remarked that she sympathized with Norma but didn’t understand why she was unhappy if she was rich and healthy had like this live in servant

Ryan
>>108315246

Totally missed that! Love to see it! Couldn’t agree more with you re: Akira Kurosawa too.

Ben Zaretsky

Guys this is great! More movie mindset really enjoying

MKatieUltra

I was at this cocktail bar in Hanoi last week and Sunset Blvd was on the tv. I wasn’t familiar with it, but got curious and googled Joe Gillis after seeing the credits.

Christopher Price

There were 2+ generations of bored middle-class housewives with money, time and little recourse for divorce. Those women must've conjured some classic murder plots with the odd insurance salesman.

Christopher Price

Also, there's a straight line from the Apartment to Wong Kar-Wai

etienne

wow only 2 more MM eps? limited edish slop, I'm already squealing for more

Anonymous

Great episode. I watched Sunset Boulevard last night for the first time and loved it.

Anonymous

It's so funny will mentioning just seeing Witness for the Prosecution because that's literally the movie I saw on Sunday for the first time ever, not joking.

Claire Casey
>>108382165

No there is more coming, Chris and Will both basically confirmed more than the schedule thread

danny

probably hack to point out but double indemnity feels pretty 1:1 with crime and punishment

J.P. McD.

John Dahl also did Rounders, giving it some noir vibes which is one of the reasons it’s great

Anonymous

Another great ep this combo has perfect chemistry

snafujesus

It would be cool if you announced the films for the coming week in the notes, so people have a chance to watch before they listen.

Jennifer Reft

Yes, bring back trains!!!

Adam Foster

On Joe Gillis being a horrible guy: Yeah, but just like everyone else in Sunset Boulevard he’s a product of the Hollywood machine. Made cruel by his desperation for fame and success and the complete apathy of Hollywood toward those aspirations he can only see people as a means to an end. Joe has become a housewife to Norma Desmond, trapped by his financial situation he becomes dependent on her. You can see his eventual murder in the same light as a jealous husband who kills his wife before she can leave him.

I am become reply guy

I just watched Double Indemnity, I don’t think I’d have enjoyed it half as much without listening to this first for all the subtext. My favorite line is after Neff declines to become an auditor Keyes says ‘I thought you were smarter than the rest of them, it turns out you’re just a little taller.’

Seymour Butz

Holy shit these are now two of my favourite films ever, they don’t make ‘em like this anymore folks!

Arielle Curtin

I saw Barbara Stanwyck in Night Nurse, a pre-code production, and my life has never been the same. Both movies discussed are incredible, as was the discussion!

Eamon Short

Goddamn, before movie mindset I don't think I heard any chapo eps with this lady on, if there are any. But she is funny as fuck and her and Will and great chemistry. Will describing the lighting as "everything is caressed by darkness" is a beautiful turn of phrase. Also she really really knows her shit. She even seems to have more knowledge on the subject than Will. That's no knock on him just a huge huge compliment to her.

Brad Plumb

Yes! I fucking love Christine! I thought I was the only one!

Anonymous
>>109774257

Just wait till you start listening to Seeking Derangements. It will make you life Fun.

M.R. Alchemist

Hilarious how the worse thing in the world for a young guy in the 50s is having to fuck a rich milf :/