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XRF? (Patreon)

Published:
2018-04-04 18:52:45
Imported:
2021-10

Content

Hey guys Iā€™ve got a guy willing to sell me a hand held xrf gun that can tell me the ppm concentration of 50+ elements. It is almost 20,000$ and thatā€™s a huge discount he is giving me. Should I go for it?

Comments

Anonymous

Whoā€™s is it? I work with SciAps

Anonymous

It's out of my purview. I'm just a software engineer.

Garoninja

I won't tell you how to spend your money, but if it's within your means and you think you'll get some real use out of it.

Anonymous

Holy cow, $20k? It better turn those elements it's measuring into gold!

Anonymous

It would be really cool to see this in some mining videos. I would say if you are financially stable and have some good uses in mind then go for it

Anonymous

Make and model?

Anonymous

Can it make you $20k? If not, then no.

Anonymous

Im sitting here doing a brochure for SciAps new x250

Anonymous

That looks like its 40-50 videos or 3-5 months of Patreon payments. It might distinguish you, like the slow mo guys camera distinguished them, but it also pushes you further out of the "dangerous stuff you can do safely at home" market.

Anonymous

I'm no expert on XRF but I'm pretty good at investigating products

Anonymous

Always have to think of the opportunity cost (i.e. what else could you do with $20k).

Anonymous

Look at AMPTEKs XRF Discovery Kit First. It may be a better fit for less

Anonymous

deals like that don't come around everyday. do it

Anonymous

If you think that you can make back then ide say go for it, its a usefull tool

Anonymous

I totally think you should go for it! You can then actually QUANTIFY the purity of your final products in stead of just stating "it's probably over 90% pure". You could also refine techniques for removing specific stubborn contaminants!

Anonymous

Iā€™d go for it if you have the means. Would be an extremely useful tool

Anonymous

Try it first, get and check all the documentation (service card, warranty card, calibration, etc.), talk with the manufacturer how they handle personal sales with respect to service and warranty. Worth considering, but do it properly!

Anonymous

I would agree with others that it's only a good deal if you're confident it'll make you enough money to cover the initial cost. I do think technology like this would increase the production quality of your videos, but so would better cameras and video equipment.

Anonymous

If you can afford it hell yes. If not, didn't you get to is one in your video about your metorite? If you could get more access to that I would suggest that instead.

Anonymous

I don't know the details of it, but a quick search reveals some on sale for less so it would have to be a good one. If you can use it to make money through your metallurgy work for example as well as videos then I'd go for it, but if it's just for the videos then it's a risk you'll have to consider. You've had issues with strikes in the past and you just need to look at the news today to see that YouTube is not a guaranteed way to make money.

Anonymous

Those things are pretty cool. Iā€™m sure you could find some interesting ways to use it in videos and experiments as well. If you think you could resell it after messing with it for a few months and recoup maybe 15k or so then i would go for it. But 20k is a lot for something with such limited uses. Also I think part of the appeal of your channel to me is your ability to do cool stuff using pretty obtainable an inexpensive gear and materials. Using high end scientific devices kind of takes away some of the charm maybe? But its your money and your channel. Do whatever you think.

Andy Pugh

I think it seems like an awful lot of money for a fun toy. For rather less you could analyse with this ( <a href="https://www.ebay.com/itm/152825743441" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/152825743441</a> ) and do fun other stuff too.

Anonymous

Get AvE to BOLTR it! <a href="https://www.patreon.com/user?u=516138">https://www.patreon.com/user?u=516138</a>

Anonymous

Will it help you in your future endeavors? What kind of maintenance does it require? Will this make you a profit of return of function? Sounds cool to have, but is there something else in that price range that you could use more?

Anonymous

I came here to say "DO IT" but then I read what everyone else wrote and I think they are smarter than me.

Anonymous

Who cares about profit or ROI? Do it for the science!

Anonymous

If you're not experienced already with one, rent one first, there's many rental options online. point it at everything in your house and run around the ranch and point it at every rock, You could probably do it in a couple days, then make the choice to buy later. 20k is a lot for a seldom used tool.

Anonymous

It sounds cool , would be cool to see how it looks on the inside (AvE) and how it works , Its a lot of money , but i know how i would feel over such a Geeks Toy , its a hard one. you could make a series (how to build your own DIY Spectrum Analyzer )

Anonymous

We have a desktop model at work, and it is great fun. That said, what elements is it capable of sensing? Ours can't detect any of the lighter elements (below Na I think). You also have to look at how the sensitivity in atmosphere is (ours uses a vacuum chamber). For your refining I feel like it would help, but I don't know if that help is worth $20K. Fun toy though.

Anonymous

Looks like a fun toy to play with and explore the world, but sounds quite expensive, maybe a cheaper desktop model would make more sense?

Anonymous

Worst case, re-sell for a profit if he's giving you a huge discount?

Aly

that'd be pretty cool :D

Anonymous

Would it enable you to do more chem. Intense videos? Would the purchase offer you a solid return of investment? Would you be able to utilize it is a useful way for your videos or would it only be a show piece?

Anonymous

Sounds cool and 20k is not that much money. I say go for it if the offer is legit and the instrument working. On the other hand a DIY flame or even plasma spectrometer would be even cooler šŸ˜Ž. The coolest though would be a comparison of the capabilities of the XRF and something DIY.

Anonymous
>>11304919

That's a dick move. Presumably the seller is offering the discount because he wants to see *Cody* using the tool. At least Cody should give the original seller the right of first refusal if Cody decides to sell it.

Anonymous
>>11304772

I feel like AvE's approach to tool reviews would be a little rough for delicate scientific equipment ;)

Anonymous

Do it I say, XRF's are pretty easy to use and interpret, and very useful like you said

Anonymous

I quick search on eBay has the Niton XL2 (apparently the market leader) for $18K. Does this $20K device really represent a discount? I would imagine that a company selling such niche products would PAY YOU to have their brand broadcast to your 1.4M subscribers - if just 1% decided to buy one, that'd be an additional $280M revenue for the company. Don't underestimate yourself, Cody.

Anonymous

If you want to do prefessional work with it and considered maintenance and repairs AND you do not have tobtake a loan, grab that chance.

hey7328

I subscribed because of all the crazy homemade stuff you make (mine, gunpowder from pee, hydrogen generator, rocket attempts, etc.). I think buying all this expensive stuff that a professional would use pushes your channel away from it's original base. It makes it less interesting, and less challenging

Anonymous

For Youtube use only i think it would not be worth it. Use aproximate cheap methods (and film them) and in special cases pay for a professional essay which you can discuss with us. And use part of the saved money for a holyday to boost your creativity ... think of your fusion project, too ;-)

Anonymous

Iā€™m pretty sure some kind of mass spectrometer is less than 20k, also pretty sure there are more than 50 elements, i vote NO, even tho is does seem like a sweet piece of kit. Rather see AvE crack it open

Anonymous

Some interesting replies both ways. If you want it get it. It would be interesting to see one in action and how it works.

Anonymous
>>11305292

Sorry, but 1% is a HUGE exaggeration. It would be really nice if just 10 people would actually buy something. I can't even stress how much wrong you are.

Anonymous

Use of an xrf can get really technical and there are a lot of subtle details to consider not to mention many brands, competitors. I have studied much about it to include making my own setup (see AMPTEK inc and Theremino websites). The price is too high for a used instrument. Xray tubes can wear out over time. Try renting one first for testing. Some day I will have one.

Anonymous

seems like this is a tool used to answer a very specific type of question. Do you have $20,000 worth of that type of question that you need answers to?

Anonymous

Do not expect to quantify ppm levels with a handheld!!

Anonymous
>>11305354

otoh it would help to verify things made by simple things. Make some element with simple things and verify the method with the device

Anonymous

My thoughts are similar to everyone else. If you have the money to spare, and it will genuinely give you more than the alternative uses for the it, go for it. That means videos, professional work, fun, or just the pleasure of owning it. It's a lot of money, so you should probably only spend it if you're reasonably sure you'll get your money's worth.

Anonymous

Is this something that you have been looking at buying, or is it something where an opportunity just popped up? If it's the latter, maybe you should wait a few days, work on a few projects, and mull it over. I can't speak for how good the deal is, but I know I find myself wanting stuff I never knew I needed because it's hard to pass up a good deal.

Anonymous

If you believe it will help you make $20,000 in additional content go for it.

Anonymous

why not just rent one?

Anonymous

If YouTube content creation is Cody's job, then would such a purchase be tax deductible?

Anonymous

We have a few of these handheld XRF guns at work (about twice what youā€™re looking at paying). Weā€™ve had some issues with them being one or two orders of magnitude off on some of the more trace elements (gold and silver), though weā€™re not looking at those elements. Most elements are reasonably accurate down to approximately 100ppm, below that, readings are sporadic or 0, so donā€™t expect to get any data from samples with elemental concentrations in that range. Also, lighter elements sodium and magnesium can only be detected in a helium atmosphere as their X-ray fluorescence is completely attenuated by atmospheric gases. Carbon and lighter are completely out of the question with our instruments. We also have 11 or so NIST standards to calibrate our guns, and even then they can be temperamental. And like mentioned by someone else, the tubes do die. We run around 500 samples a day and they can last months or a few years, just depends on chance.

Silviu T

$20k is low for professional XRF equipment. OTOH you can make your own from some smoke detectors, a custom made lead mantle and a detector. Check this: <a href="http://www.gammaspectacular.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=73" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.gammaspectacular.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=73</a> I know Steven ( the board admin and OP in that thread) personally, he's a very cool guy. I'm sure he would answer any questions you have.

Anonymous

If you can net OVER 20k and still pay your bills its a fantastic tool to have (if it all works as intended) would totally give your video a more professional feel when you have the data from an XRF to attach to your work. I can see it being one of those tools you don't use often but when you do it will be a great addition. plus if Cody's Lab is a registered business, isn't their some tax write off you can do for it

Silviu T
>>11306771

And another thread. <a href="http://www.gammaspectacular.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=238" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.gammaspectacular.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=238</a> In this one I suggested Cd-109 as an excitation isotope, should work better than Am but has a short t1/2 meaning you would need a new source every year. It is used commercially for this purpose apparently. To further make my point clear, I think you should build one. I think it would be well within your abilities and would make good YT material (the building, testing etc)

Anonymous

I don't think you should buy it unless you plan to use it as a professional geologist and make back your money.

Zorn

i vote no. 20.000 is just too much to ever have a good return on that investment, and so you're paying for the results the device can give you rather than the returns of it. And that'S just not worth 20.000$. i'd suggest to instead take 1/4th-1/2 of that, and make some "cheap but so far not really worth it"-ideas. but: I won't be mad at you if you do it, you know how to do the science and i don't.

Anonymous

that's 180 square feet of 1/4 inch steel (in project sized chunks). what do you think you could do more cool stuff with? I vote 'eh', but i'm bias towards your make stuff videos than your bio hacking

Anonymous

Iā€™m not sure. I think Rustle Mooreā€™s comments above are pretty accurate in that the thing takes calibration and careful feeding and such. $20k is a good price, but I donā€™t know how accurate and precise X Ray fluorescence will be for QA in your setting. In competition, there are older competing bench based technologies, for instance, mass spectrometry or NMR that take a bit of work to use, but produce highly accurate QA results, and could possibly be found used in this price range. I guess in the end, it depends on if this thing will return good value on its $20k investment price, compared to other stuff that $20k could buy; the classic economic question of opportunity cost.

Kevin Faccenda

I don't think so, that's a lot of money and I doubt that you can get 20k worth of use out of it as others have suggested.

Anonymous

IMO, if you can afford it, and you think it will improve your videos/life $20,000 worth, then go for it, but there are tons of things you can get for 20k that would be far more useful. I don't know what you currently use for camera/audio, but that is a department that can always be upgraded, and it doesn't hurt to have multiple quite good cameras to record with. It would be a really cool piece of kit, but i think that 20k is best spent elsewhere.

Anonymous

Honestly, my vote is 'no'. When I watch youtube videos, I'm usually looking for neat projects that I may someday be able to afford. Even on an engineer's salary, $20K for a single piece of equipment is out of my reach. If you're looking to show off elemental analysis, I'd look at something cheaper like a spectrometer or spectrophotometer. Those can be had in the hundreds to thousands region.

Anonymous

I work with a few of these and they can be super useful for soils and identifying minerals, they do however have their limitations, kile not being great high concentrations of heavy minerals ( such as gold) and not being able to pick up the lighter minerals (Lithium). Considering the price you mentioned the unit is most likely a few years old which does mean the accuracy will be a bit lower. We have also just had one serviced by the manufacturer which came in at a cost of just over $5000. A small desk unit would give you way better results and should come it at a similar price.

Anonymous

I for one trust that you will do great things with it. Go for it!

Anonymous

I'm guessing you can take core samples and choose to dig or mine an area based on the results of that meter rather than send in samples to a lab, that sounds worth it since you eventually want to make money mining

Anonymous

Very useful if you're using it for rocks and need a decent estimation of element composition. We've used a couple ourselves.

Anonymous

No, opportunity cost is too high. There are way more things you can do to improve your videos with 20k that this. If you want to make a video featuring one of these, then perhaps you could find a way to hire or borrow one.

Michael Aichlmayr

I would never want to dampen your passion, but, wow, that's a lot of assays, and a lot of money that could be used for a lot of other things. I like the rental idea, or maybe someone would loan one to you in exchange for the product placement (either way, get insurance on it, you know, for in case you accidentally drop it from your drone or spill something on it. šŸ¤£)

Anonymous

The only problem is gun is in the title of it so youtube would demonized it. Because they do not know the difference.

Anonymous

Actually proving out the results is something that differentiates you from the many dozens of people carrying out exciting looking reactions in their garages; if this tool can help demonstrate the outcome of the reactions, sounds like the thing to do

Anonymous

What an exciting opportunity! My experience with an XRF suggests that good analytical results require sample prep and non-trivial analytical procedure that you are capable of, but not necessarily interesting for Youtube watchers. Interesting element analysis, like gold, use tracer species and a correlation study...arsenic and lead are useful measurements - so it is good for environmental studies, less good for prospecting and exploration. Would love for you to make interesting discoveries using this technology, but I would worry that its capability would disappoint and fall unused, a waste. Good luck Cody!

Anonymous

I have my own setup based on theremino equipment

Anonymous

If the investment is worth it and you can make a ton of content and better content out of it, that gets monetized.

Anonymous

The way I see it: In favour: - If it is still calibrated, and detects the elements you need to defect, twenty thousands isn't much. - It will make the content of the videos better, make the chemistry more precise. Against: - It has an extremely limited amount of cases where you actually need it. - You can find a used bench one for much less (I know, they are the size of a fridge instead of handheld) Or even a plain old mass spectrometer. - I believe it will make some videos less attractive because no one has one in there kitchen draw. - How will you possibly use that investment to make money? I mean extra money, such as how many more patrons would you need to get, or how much previous substances would you need to better refine? Doesn't sound like a sound investment. Unknown: - What is the customer service like for a second hand through a private sale? - What is the maintenance cost? Calibration cost? I would say no, don't get it. But that's only my point of view.

Paul Grodt

No clue if you should get it, That entirely depends on your personal finances. But I know I've always wanted one since I first learned about them as a kid watching Modern Marvels. I've only ever gotten to see one once at one of the larger scrap-yards in my city; and I had to wait around for half an hour for them to get the guy who was allowed to use it just to show it to me. I _feel_ like if you bought it and things ever got rough, you could resell it any time and recoup those costs. But yeah, this is a tough decision.

Anonymous

That or buy 20k worth of fireworks. For science of course.

Anonymous

You should consider the service and maintenance costs as well. Although it is not the same technique, I use SEM with elemental analysis using EDS sensors based on somewhat the same principle. There are costs associated with having this service each year that add up to nearly $5K. So, it is not only the initial $20K you are looking at. Personally I would take a pass on that. I think there are other big ticket things that you would have more fun with. But you are the final judge of how to spend such a big chunk of money.

Anonymous

XRF equipment is quite robust and is easy to calibrate. As you said, the "pucks" are used for calibration which is rather simple. The only thing that can really wear out is the x-ray tube, but it typically doesn't see that much usage time. You could get unlucky and the electronics could break, but that is unlikely and the handheld units are meant for use in mining and scrap recovery applications. Another thing to consider is what price you could resell it for. If you could resell it for close to what you pay, then there isn't that much at risk should you find that you are not using it that much. If you are looking to continue mining or recovering scrap metals, and could resell it at a price close to what you pay, then I would seriously consider it.

Anonymous

I think so! Couldn't that be applied to virtually any mineral you pick up? Could provide material for a lot of different videos.

CodysLab
>>11317294

My thoughts exact. More ā€œwell loved unitsā€ are selling on eBay for about what I would be paying. In fact by threrining to buy one on eBay instead I got the price reduced by another 2k

Anonymous

If it works, and you have a specific idea of what you're going to be using it for, then go for it!

804R

Honestly, eh, and I guess that means "no". It's neat, but I don't think it will make your videos any more interesting and that is a lot of money I'd rather you'd spend on something else that'd be more interesting and might help grow your channel.

Anonymous

Cody Iā€™m friends with the CEO of SciAps, heā€™s the guy who started Niton, &amp; Innovx(now Olympus). If you like Iā€™ll connect you two guys. Iā€™m sure heā€™ll have something that would fit your situation. New or used. Interested?

Anonymous

This guy <a href="https://youtu.be/XD9DjtFgjIc" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/XD9DjtFgjIc</a>

Anonymous

I just got off the phone with him. I told him about your channel. He said heā€™d be interested in getting you setup. He took you seriously when I mentioned you werenā€™t looking for freebies and were willing to put some if your own $ in the game. Heā€™s a good guy to know if youā€™re in chemistry science.

Anonymous
>>11323752

If he can arrange an Olympus Vanta XRF at a good rate it may be worth it. I can get one here for about $32000 new without the "friends and family" discount. They are some of the best on the market at the moment.

iceowl
>>11322819

Wow. I didn't even know such things existed. So the guy in the vid is holding an xray in his hand...and zapping a sample and measuring the fluorescence and the SW inside analyzes the curve in 2 seconds and picks an alloy from an internal library. I was involved in Auget spectroscopy when I was a grad student, and that puppy was big as my bedroom (vacuum stuff). To get that HV accelerator in his hand, and hold a sample up to it - and not worry about exposure, is just incredible. Learn something new every day. Cheers.

Anonymous

Cody build yourself a lab for your experiments, and of course you need tools, buy the XRF i think it is a good idea

Anonymous

Tough call! It's definitely a terrible investmentā€”the likelihood of earning an extra $20k+ by featuring it in your videos is exactly 0%ā€”but I doubt your interest in it has to do with money. If you're looking at the one made by Bruker, I used it in college and grad school and it's still by far my favorite scientific instrument I've ever used. If I had an extra $20k just sitting around, I'd have a really hard time letting the opportunity slip by!

John Gillotte

Probably. Though the XRF might not have much draw on its own, xfr gun max video on youtube hit 50k view only, it would unlock that quantitative bite to your chem videos. I really like the chem videos but most of them end up in resulting in and eyeball analysis. The XRF would allow for follow up vidoes on how to further refine things, cannot really do that with an eyeball measure.

Anonymous

If you have the cash for it, I would say yes. It would induce you to make a lot of videos that require its use to justify buying it and I'm all for that!

Anonymous

Check out sciaps.com X and Z xrf/libs handhelds.

Anonymous

$20K is nuts, can you ask for a trial run for a month or so, to see how much you actually use it?

Anonymous

Cody here's a desktop (rather than handheld) analyzer for $19K but it can do atomic numbers 12 to 92. <a href="http://www.bmisurplus.com/products/46961-micro-pioneer-xrf-2000h-x-ray-system-spectrometer?gclid=Cj0KCQjwtZzWBRD2ARIsAIPenY1GEfAjD4HSPIlyLDKrQXPvu1_wTpoldA2ECw5a0qYXvlC0sF64aosaAvStEALw_wcB" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.bmisurplus.com/products/46961-micro-pioneer-xrf-2000h-x-ray-system-spectrometer?gclid=Cj0KCQjwtZzWBRD2ARIsAIPenY1GEfAjD4HSPIlyLDKrQXPvu1_wTpoldA2ECw5a0qYXvlC0sF64aosaAvStEALw_wcB</a>

Anonymous

I think you should go with something more true to the lab. Get and xray generator, and detector, a block of graphite for a crystal, an oscilloscope with a FFT and cobble together your own homebrew xrf. If anyone could pull it off it has got to be you!

Anonymous

Make-it! X-ray tube, detector, some electronics, some lead and peak deconvolution software. Although. probably not very portable. Cheers, Mark

Anonymous

Yes! All the way :)

Brian Reddeman

Aren't XRF readers finicky about tuning? I've had XRF machines return Al, Si because it wasn't tuned to things like Fe, Sn and Ti

Anonymous

I've been burned. I'd be suspicious.