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Episode 95: Koch'd Up (Part II) (Patreon)

Published:
2020-09-01 08:24:20
Edited:
2024-03-03 16:57:56
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Content

We continue with part two of our episode on the Koch Empire, dive into the legacy of the Cato institute, Murray Rothbard's self proclaimed Leninism and The Belden Program. 

links: 

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/independent-and-principled-behind-cato-myth/

https://thebaffler.com/latest/the-forgotten-man-ganz
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/08/journey-into-a-libertarian-future-part-ii-the-strategy.html

http://davidmhart.com/liberty/AmericanLibertarians/Rothbard/Rothbard_1977TowardStrategy.pdf

http://www.libertarianpapers.org/articles/2009/lp-1-3.pdf

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Comments

uya

legalize oc80s

every man a kong

makes me think twice about the left libertarian guys i met at BLM rallies. that sucks. some seem like they’re not beyond hope

every man a kong

it was fun seeing them scream “royalists!” at the cops though

Sebastian Wittekindt

So what's the Belden Programme???? Way to end on a cliffhanger my dude

will h

best podcast

Ira Lewy

Tony Cliff is good.

Michael Coutts

James Buchanan had the idea of slowly infiltrating and creating lots of think tank orgs. Have each one go after one specific thing but they all Voltron together

Connor Keeley
>>43229952

"left libertarian" is different from American libertarianism which is being discussed here. Left libertarian is pretty much an umbrella term for a variety of anarchists and townhall/direct democracy socialists

Lou TheGivingFish

Brace's rant at the end cured my interminable depression

nick b

Can't wait to receive my Belden Programme creatine shakes and VHS tapes!

John Harwood

AEI is at least as important as Cato.

profitprison

Hell yeah pylon rules

c_stenzy

The stuff at the end parallels with something I've been thinking a lot about with everything going on recently; there's not going to be a "civil war" between left and right in the US like a lot of Online™ leftists think. It'll end up as a new Indonesia 1965.

Caitlyn

Best eps yet. Cant wait for Thiel stuff.

dex

love these episodes thanks guys

akazi

Great episode

DukeDuke

very cool that you discover the great conspiracy being fought on the field of political economy and immediately fall into nihilism and defeatism. not saddening at all

A S

It isn't defeatism, it's reality. No one anywhere has any ideas and no one is making any progress. Things are going to get worse before they get better. IF they get better. I don't know when "The Left" lost, but it won't get another chance for a very long time, again, IF they get one at all.

bnlar

can't wait to be the first adherent to The Belden Problem. Is it a diet?

richard

Cut to a twitch streamer leftist waiting in the wings with a 3 hour YouTube video titled 'Critique of the Belden Programme'. Spoiler alert: he is NOT wearing the correct attire to be critiquing ANYTHING

Morgan VanYperen
>>43268395

they haven't at all. they are so hopeful, motivated, and committed to their cause that they are willing to admit the awful state and current direction around it, and internalize that truth. there is no chance of any effective action or tactic that would drive society towards communist ideals without first having a clear-eyed view of this stuff. too many leftists focus far too much on their ideals and are completely ineffective because it's easier to have hope for things that you want, but that you can't do anything to make happen, than it is to look at the harsh reality and not only be humbled by it, but also be able to do anything about it to the extent that you can, and not trick yourself into thinking there's already some slow, steady progression building through our generation and the next that's actually bringing us closer to where we want

Poinks

Tacoma Wept

Dan

Liz was saving sugar for her wedding night.

Mike Keegan

Great episode.

Saoirse Murray

Daddy yelled at me at the end. 😢

JackApollo

best pod of all time

Agave Maria

Ight so who’s putting the hit and run on Brace’s wiki?

Red Baltimore

The only blind spot these right wing ghouls have is the deterioration of material conditions. Their ideological project relies on the perpetuation of material comfort in the imperial core. You speak of people willing to die for their ideological project on the right, but the ideology is just an avatar for the wealth and comfort they've been provided by the system. As the contradictions of capitalism heighten, fewer and fewer people will see it as the mechanism by which they enrich their lives. No matter how strongly libertarian freaks believe that capitalism is infallible, it is inherently flawed, and will eventually crumble. Will you have millions of people fighting for austerity and privatization once they lose their homes or are burdened with insane debts? Will their vast network of cadres be effective once US dollar supremacy has been dethroned?

Daniel Moiseev

The ancap utopia sounds a whole lot like Patchwork as described by neoreactionary blogger Mencius Moldbug, who is allegedly Peter Thiel’s political tutor. Can’t wait for you guys to talk about Theil!

Bong Bong

This podcast is on a collision course with Dave Emory-- y'all need to have him on! This episode was pure Dave Emory circa 2012.

antipatterns
>>43292022

The choice right now is between liberalism and neo-feudalism, and people seem to be abandoning the left for those camps. Stocks are up. I don't see why mass poverty and death will lead to the end of anything.

Doug Cartel

so in the absence of the state to mobilize the largest possible sums of capital they think insurance companies will be able to do that? i just keep thinking about how mercenary armies were a popular trend in antiquity on and off, but the main deciding factor of their popularity was how much capital warfare required. When mercs' budgets hit a certain plateau, states would rise to meet the demands of capital mobilization where mercs couldnt'. At least, thats a very abridged explanation of centuries of war according to an old edition of the Cambridge History of Warfare.

Doug Cartel

anyways, love to believe in a political philosophy that believes in no rules but also that the masses are just giant piles of dumb flesh also, i wish i knew more about that one freak's explanation of the mechanisms that are supposed to mobilize famously risk-averse capitalists to fund the private defense of a cluster of city states against the feds.

Phil Hostak

Holy shit that peroration was great Brace!

a clash of purple
>>43309090

Pretty sure that part of the big plan is that there won't be any more feds once they get their way. And why would they need to defend themselves against forces of the government when they own the government? What, the CIA is going to launch a palace coup in Kochtopia to install someone less right-wing? An American president declares war on Gates-Bezosia to get the taxpayers' money back from the oligarchs? Mexico invades Slimivia to nationalize the telecom industry? Doesn't seem likely. EDIT: Didn't see your first post at first. I think you've pretty much pointed out the obvious result. These libertarian utopias would just be forced to turn into the next generation of nation-states, though I think that would be the result of their wars against each other, not necessarily against these decrepit and corrupt empires they seceded from.

a clash of purple

Alright, well, I pretty much agree with Brace's rant at the end, but I'm going to keep donating to DSA unless he's got a better idea. I mean, the DSA could become a vehicle of change if it only had some decent leadership... If there's a better alternative out there, let me know.

Well aged meme
>>43282913

yo that shit was kinda intense. I didn't realize i had just stopped working and stared at my monitor while dude went off.

Dr. Lumpenjoker

Keep mentioning Hjalmar Schacht! I used to think I'm the only one interested in this mofo. And maybe one day somebody will tell us how to pronounce his first name.

Matt Giesler

Damn Brace go off king

Poinks (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-23 00:52:51 "DSA is an op", sucdems etc. Party for Socialism & Liberation (PSL) has been at the forefront of BLM/anti-police protests across the nation and enjoy the endorsement and sponsorship of other leftist orgs. They are definitely the fastest-growing Marxist org at the moment if you're into that sort of thing.
2020-09-02 21:09:18 "DSA is an op", sucdems etc. Party for Socialism & Liberation (PSL) has been at the forefront of BLM/anti-police protests across the nation and enjoy the endorsement and sponsorship of other leftist orgs. They are definitely the fastest-growing Marxist org at the moment if you're into that sort of thing.
>>43325368

"DSA is an op", sucdems etc. Party for Socialism & Liberation (PSL) has been at the forefront of BLM/anti-police protests across the nation and enjoy the endorsement and sponsorship of other leftist orgs. They are definitely the fastest-growing Marxist org at the moment if you're into that sort of thing.

Katie

Do an episode on Dan Schneider and Bryan Singer once youstart looking down that rabbit hole you will never resurface.

Stephanie Han Sola

Fuck man Brace went off on those last few minutes of the podcast, shit really scared the shit outta me ha.

Red Baltimore
>>43292022

Stocks being up doesn't really mean anything to the vast majority of people and they're up because of the fiscal voodoo we are afforded by controlling the global reserve currency. The only reason we can print trillions and shovel them into the stock market without facing massive inflation is because everyone buys oil in dollars, does major trade deals in dollars and pays their national debts in dollars. That isn't going to last forever. The dollar is likely to be replaced by the Renminbi over the coming decades as China solidifies their spot as the number one economy. The US will need to use it's Military to shore up lost soft power, which will be unpopular at home leading to even more disillusionment. It's one thing for people who've only ever known poverty to remain in it without major changes in the prevailing ideology and worldview. Reducing once-prosperous people and make them poor and hungry, it's going to have dramatic effects on the superstructure. Likely leading to extreme polarization with more and more Fascists and more and more Communists. Our job is going to be working to ensure the latter prevails in the end.

rocco

Really really good, wow

Anonymous

So what do you recommend the left should do? This is super nihilist and the mentality so many people on the left have, which is why we can’t actually be a united front.

Hazzy (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-23 00:52:44 thanks guys, i've started listening to this since the begin of quarantine & its been keeping me sane. Just caught up, yall rule. ILY
2020-09-03 15:13:57 thanks guys, i've started listening to this since the begin of quarantine & its been keeping me sane. Just caught up, yall rule. ILY

thanks guys, i've started listening to this since the begin of quarantine & its been keeping me sane. Just caught up, yall rule. ILY

Jacques Robespierre

ANCAP utopia is just cyberpunk by Mike Pondsmith.

Anonymous

When they made the new 80s that you couldn’t shoot up anymore I basically gave up and decided to get clean

Jared Hamilton Peil

No one else is doing stuff like this! Liz you're a genius and purdue pharma you really made a humdinger with those 80s. It's actually really fucked up they started making them gel up because we would still try to bang em.

Caitlyn

“If you’re willing to die for the cause of the left you probably have very bad depression” 🤡 wrote this in my notes app

Luke

Brace my boy come on at least let me get a pamphlet or something don’t do me like that

cheep_hardware
>>43382934

I think the lack of a united front is more attributable to liberals/leftists who flee from an honest assessment of the effectiveness of their 'beliefs'. Voicing frustration with the widespread lack of intent to succeed...not what's preventing a unified Left, in my opinion.

Carson D

great episode! i was wondering who the new left/yimby turned libertarian is that brace referenced to in the last ten mins?

Sarah

The Guy with the Shoe on his Head = Vermin Supreme, and he's literally a comedian.

Sarah

Ok, so if these libertarian nutjobs are that close to getting a fractured former US-Dystopia, what the fuck can we do about it?

Joel Smith

I miss 50 dollar 80’s.

Joel Smith

Dude those 80’s that you couldn’t crush put every oxy dealer I knew out of business. Nobody wanted those. Had to just get 30’s after that

Shane

I am way out of my element.

every man a kong
>>43230010

you can’t @ people here? but Txv1138, that one was counterprotesting a blue lives matter demonstration

Julian

So depressing. We’ve got the worst of both worlds, right wing economic policy and cultural Marxism. If only we could do a little switcheroo... Some kind of like, national socialism or something.

Brittany Bell

What is the song at the end?

Lojban Chauvinist
>>43231976

$100 says there is no program, they don't have any coherent ideas about a way forward. And are you really part of the Left if you believe leftist ideals are outside the realm of the possible? What's the real difference between that and a liberal who likes to dream of a Star Trek future?

Lojban Chauvinist

It's sounding more and more like the hosts don't have coherent politics. They want to reorient the Left towards appealing to average working people, yet cling to the alienating language of Communism. They hate the United States and all versions of U.S. nationalism, yet oppose the disintegration of the U.S. at all costs. They believe in adapting to material conditions, yet (it sounds like) they see literally NO way forward for the First World left, making their politics identical in practice to those of an apathetic liberal who vaguely wishes socialism were possible. I hope I'm wrong – will keep listening to find out.

Lojban Chauvinist

Fifty-fifty on the "Belden program" being either a riff on leftists who see themselves as the "star of socialism" or some version of Third Worldism...

K Barlas
>>61883656

They're communists, the ideology the hosts express on this podcast is Marxism, clear and consistent.

J Vito

fuck yeah pylon is epic

JJ Moffett V

I like the implication that young Chomsky is trying to sit down and straighten out Brace and Liz about being more professional podcasters and they just fuck around and blast him on air.