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-----[Law&Disorder] For those of you who weren't in the Poll post:--------------------

For those of you who weren't in the Poll post,  here's a td;lr of what it said about L&D:

Law&Disorder will have Memory Panel as a requirement to avoid overloading the game with similar code when merging them is just better. Here's where I shoved the 'see records' option for now:
(the below is a GIF image file and can' play properly in the patreon app, only plays on browsers)

You can see the mod tracks both when Sims get caught and when they don't. Also tracks people involved, in memory-panel style, not just for fun but also because what a Sim does and in front of or to whom shall impact relationships and consequences in general.

For now all the mod does is track things, but now that tracking is nearly all set, I can get started on applying consequences.

------ [RPO] FYI of Two tiny additions --------------------

I am adding too very small things that were requested by patrons a bit ago.

One is an interaction to take a pregnancy test at the doctor (Rabbit hole).

The other is 'Ask about Pregnancy', which gives in the answer the current trimester, how the feels about being pregnant, and whether or not the Sim wants children.

-------[RPO] the Baby Gender question--------------

So, let's talk about a feature which has been requested again and again and again. That is, preferences for 'baby gender'.

I had this chat with many of you on Discord. My answer was basically 'We'd have to find a way to not make it about baby biology / not make it transphobic'.
In my head, I don't really understand baby gender preferences as I myself don't want a child. But I was thinking it has to revolve around personality hopes because it surely can't truly revolve around baby biology, can it?
So, for that, I originally came up with a pretty convoluted plan.  It would've basically had a bunch of personality related preferences and hopes for how the child could be like - in the end, kinda looking like the chemistry system, except obviously non-romantic.  And in the end opted against that, because it is also unethical for parents to obsess over exactly how they want a child to be in this level of detail.

So, we end up with a simpler model, which incorporates both an idea of personality and an idea of gender, by being formulated around gender EXPRESSION (not a preference for a certain biology, but, what the child could choose to embrace as an identity and what that could mean for their personality).

We end up with a tiny, OPTIONAL feature (setting to turn on / off) whose effect is small (ie gives a moodlet at ultrasound and birth) AND whose writing tries to remains open at all times.

So, the effort is all in the conceptual approach and wording.  I take these 'baby gender' preferences to come from the hope of bonding with one's child, and how we all have an easier time bonding with certain people with certain aspects or characteristics.  So, this is what the preferences are built around. Baby gender as in 'oh I generally bond better with people who exhibit certain personality traits or choices which are often associated with a girl identity, so I would prefer to have a child who is girly too'.

That is the attempt here to create a bridge between outdatedly exclusive binary concepts and inclusive ones.

I initially thought I would just release it done as shown below because it's been so requested and in my burnt out brain I just wanted to 'close the question', but I sometimes know better than to always listen to the burn out part, so I would rather ask first as I am really unsure about it.

Fact is, I have stayed away from it for all this time for good reasons, but in the end, I'd rather try to do it in an inclusive or thoughtful way, than do nothing and then see trans-exclusive versions only appear & circulate. That concern brought me to actually get working on it despite my qualms.

PLEASE share your feedback; if the consensus is that this is bad or should not be in the mod, I will destroy it without a look back.

Here is what it looks like.

Please let's be kind and open minded to each other as we discuss these questions.  Thank you.

Best,
Lumpinou

Comments

Anonymous

I understand wanting to be inclusive of everyone, but I think the way you have it now just complicates it. A baby does not have the capacity to choose how they want to identify and doesn't even realize that's a choice it can make, so why not keep it binary? That's how they'll be born anyway. That'll make it easier to avoid awkward wording. You can introduce all the other stuff in another life phase. I would also vote for a separate module or something to enable/disable.

lumpinou

Thanks for sharing your opinion! I agree of course that a baby who can't even recognize itself in a mirror can't really have deep thoughts on that or on anything really - but the question is, when a parent 'wants a boy' what does it mean? I cannot imagine that it is about the genitals the baby is born with because that makes no sense for people to care about that in cultures where there is relative 'equality' between the biological sexes. In my mind, it therefore has to have something to do with who the child will be, how they will behave, etc, hence the behavior notions and the more awkward and complicated terms. As for enabling disabling, yes this is shown above to be completely optional anyways. All that being said I do totally get your point and meaning and you are not at all the only one here to think so, considering the many similar comments. I understand it because there is indeed some awkward stance or phrasing there. Thanks for taking the time!

Anonymous

How interesting...I never ever pictured having to think something like this through in such detail. And reading your whole post, I see how complicated this whole topic is. Personally, I would not even touch it because it seems like it leaves so many windows for people to be offended on either side. Like a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of thing. But then again it's such a unique concept to bring to the SIMS that I would sort of like to see how it plays out in game. From the screenshots you have shown, I don't see any issues. I would play and see how things go. I know for me, I have always "wanted a girl" lol but it is definitely more for the personality aspects - doing girly things together. So it really isn't about gender but more about personality. For me.

lumpinou

Exactly, I do feel it's a damned either way type of thing indeed! But, the reactions have been more like 'I don't like the ambiguous wording' and not like 'this is horribly phobic' so, I think I can live with it in this case even though I am a bit sad that truly it seems to not quite fit what anyone would want -. Since nobody here seemed to find it offensive, I added it in the mod yesterday, it's off by default. I will see what the greater public thinks and re evaluate if need be of course. Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion

Anonymous

You know, this actually goes hand in hand with the LGBT mod. It adds a layer of depth I don't really get with the negative reactions included in that module. i know the 'wanting a certain gender' thing is controversial, but at the same time, I think focalizing on expression rather than the child itself is a good storytelling mechanic. Excited to play with this!!! amazing work

Katti Smith

Hey I'm having an issue with my RPO with couple not having the different break up options or the divorce process. All it has is separate option. Idk if that's a new feature. I tried moving sims apart or separating for a while but the other options doesn't show up. I have the current mod with all mods included. I took out the settings options but it doesn't resolve the issue.

lumpinou

Hi, please check the FAQ about this https://www.patreon.com/posts/76258385

Anonymous

german translation ?

SamWisez

Can teen Sims not put their baby up for adoption? I tried both single and with a partner/married and it still won't give the option, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place? Or do they have to wait until it's born?

Nascent

I'm late on commenting so not even sure if you'll see this. While I appreciate the amount of thought you've put into this I really hope you exclude it. I do not believe this feature is necessary for this phase of life and is very decisive no matter what side one falls on. Let's let babies be born what they will and allow their experiences and personalities to develop from there.

bubbles97

i think you should have optional downloads for people who want the preference to say boy/girl and another optional download for people who want the personality preference if it’s not too much work! otherwise i love the idea as it adds more realism with game play 😊

SkyXSimone

I don't think putting boy or girl would be transphobic because it not directly misgendering them. They're an unborn child who has no actual preference to be called in which way until they say otherwise.

Anonymous

Hi! Non-binary person seeing this super late over here: I think it's... whatever fine if you want to include it. I can see why people do and I'd trust you to do it more delicately than other modders... though I think it does contribute to spaces that are unsupportive to letting a child (or adult) figure out their own identity. I would really really prefer that it be off by default though, like the homophobia module. Mostly though, I would really prefer that there not be a feature where random adults ask you about your infant's genitals as a means of making conversation. I went to two baby showers in 2022 and none of the parents disclosed nor emphasized their children's sex, but many of the people in our parents' generation Just.Kept.Asking. and even tried to circumvent their child's wishes, bullying them into naming a sex so they could get the "right" color clothing. It made it incredibly uncomfortable for the parents and also those of us who were attending as nonbinary, genderqueer, or trans* people generally. Given how many random autonomy issues Sims have, I could see every conversation with the pregnant person being all about this (and the new fishing locations you've discovered).

lumpinou

Hi, It is off by default, and does nothing without player action even when turned on, so, no worries about that! :) Secondly, no worry about others asking baby genders, that's not a thing in there! All it does is give a way to manifest a preference. I'm not convinced to doing all the rest which I consider archaic at best. And, this is to me not about baby genitals. (No more than parents' wishes are, either, in my view, in the modern USA for example). But yes of course it can lead to oppression, kinda similar to the way a parent who wanted a sportsy child can force them into stuff they don't care about or like and into being someone they're not. Just as you said - like the phobia features in lgbtqia, totally optional and off by default, can play in some people's storylines and be unused by others. (and about autonomy, as a general note, I am always very careful with autonomous interactions and you can notice that normally they do not result in any kind of spam. But once again that is not relevant here as that's not part of it!) Thanks for taking the time to write!

Jenny

I think it should be optional to have this “ boy or girl” thing , babies are born and as they grow up they decide who they want to be. Parents might want a bio boy because they already have girls, and vice versa. Or they might want a boy to continue the family name and there’s also medical issues that only pass to certain sexes. Once that child grows, it can decide to be whoever they want and parents should love them the same. But really this is the sims, a game and they all act the same no matter what they identify as so it is tough , whatever you decide im sure itll be a good decision, you can’t please everyone with these things.

Anonymous

I think the idea to have it off by default is fine, as well as making sure that the autonomy for the asking is either really low, or there's an option to tell them to stop asking you and it'll turn off their autonomy for asking. Just don't remove the features entirely; I personally would like to see the gender disappointment because it does happen for some people, on top of discrimination actually being a thing. You don't see that in mods and I know why, but I want stories for my sims to feel actually real instead of a perfect fantasy.

lumpinou

The difficulty is that different players want different things and trying to find middle ground is not always easy. I try to cater to various storytelling preferences and playstyles via offering all sorts of features and making them optional either by file removal or settings on / off switches. On the matter of baby bio gender, there has been in history a lot of trauma having to do with killing babies that are born in the least wanted gender and other such things - the biological aspect carries a dark past. And of course in the modern Era, it also doesn't always translate reality for some. Those two facts push the features of the mod toward a more modern interpretation. It won't speak to everyone, that is for certain. In fact it might be so in between things that it will speak to nearly nobody. I just wanted to try. Personally, I don't want children so this doesn't speak to me at all either way in any capacity. I just try to keep my personal opinion out of it and just try to understand what others think and see and to translate that into the game

Anonymous

I love both ideas!!!

Anonymous

I love that you are so inclusive and thoughtful in your decisions! <3