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AMD's Gaming Hegemony till 2024 - Die Shrink Telegrams (Patreon)

Published:
2023-04-06 00:19:53
Imported:
2023-04

Content

So the R7 7800X3D is out....and yeah it seems like AMD will keep the gaming crown for another year or more just like they did with Zen 3...what do you all think about it?

While Tom did plan to do a video about today's CPU launch initially, he doesn't really think there's much to talk about regarding the actual launch itself...but maybe you will change his mind.  

Write in below with your thoughts on the 7800X3D, how Intel can respond with Raptor Lake Refresh, and what the implications are for the market if Intel has no good gaming answer until late 2024 with Arrow Lake.

You have ~24 hours to submit below!


https://youtu.be/78lp1TGFvKc

https://youtu.be/na9_eQ9E20s

https://www.techspot.com/review/2657-amd-ryzen-7800x3d/

Comments

Chris Rijk

After the reviews came out, I found myself wondering if Intel should have done an optimised version of the 13900K for gamers. Eg, remove all the E cores and replace them with extra cache. I think that would have been effective but would it have actually been profitable for Intel? Would it have actually increased total sales enough to justify the extra development costs? I doubt it.

Anonymous

There is much to talk about the 7800x3D launch, you should make a video Tom. /jedi mind trick

Anonymous

I like how CPU reviews often include various workloads when benchmarking, but one that seems to be missing for my use case is latency for VSTs (virtual instruments) in Digital Audio Workstations. In theory the best choice would be the CPU with the best single-core performance. But with complicated schedulers, CCDs, 3D cache, E-cores, etc it would be reassuring to see Linus finally get around to making his DAW video/s.

Chris Rijk

Not only have Intel lost the gaming crown with little hope of getting it back any time soon, they tried too hard to win every benchmark and their designs are too costly as a result. Unless the market rebounds very quickly I think the next two years are going to be painful for Intel, both in terms of mindshare and profitability. This is where a win at all costs mentality falls apart. Hopefully Intel learn the right lessons from this and come back stronger.

Dr Forbin

Yes in gaming the R7 7800X3D is a great gaming CPU but the overall performance it is not the best. The I9 !3900ks though a kiln fire is clearly the best overall CPU in all but gaming metrics. AMD clearly missed the mark with the 7950X3D which should have been the best on paper. Hardware scheduling seems to be the culprit here. Does AMD have a true fix for this colossus hardware failure? Clearly the X3d variants were not ready to compete on the high-end with the Intel I-9 class 13900k/ks. I personally was going to buy that 7950X3D but I settled for the 7950x at a great price thanks to the intro of X3D, thank you MicroCenter!

Anonymous

Since Raptor Lake is at the limit of power and thermals, do you think Intel would make a die for Raptor Lake Refresh, or a future architecture, that's strictly performance cores for gaming so they can reallocate CPU resources to possibly beat AMD's X3D CPU's? If so, would they do just 8 p-cores or go higher with 10 or 12 or even 16 p-cores? More cache? Would love to hear your thoughts

QuickJumper

This is much bigger issue for Intel than just losing gaming. Intel is shrinking, losing resources, losing employees. It doesn't matter that Intel will necessarily get worse. If they focus on their core business they can improve a lot but the problem is that AMD seems to be improving faster. With less employees than Nvidia they can outcompete Intel in 2023. And if Intel's IDM 2.0 strategy doesn't work out then Intel will become the size of AMD in just a few years.

Anonymous

I think you're overstating AMD's position here. Yes their lineup is better, has less power draw and overall I'd buy Zen 4/AM5 over anything Intel offers. But the general public doesn't care much about power draw yet, and cares about gaming CPUs somewhat less than one might think. After all, you're better off with a 7600x and a 4090 than with a 7800x3D and a 4080 for most games that require power. Intel still has a decent lineup with the 13400f, 13600k, 13700k being great for their price, margins notwithstanding. I think the real place of danger is in the server space. This is the market that deserves full attention. Win or lose, that's where it'll matter.

FloridaMan
>>105764193

Define General Public. American audiences won't care. European ones probably do

FloridaMan

I think I'm in the position of Who Cares? Perhaps I haven't seen enough CPU benchmarks or CPU scaling benchmarks. Everything is just so ridiculously fast. Anything past 120 Hz unless you are playing competitive multiplayer is overkill. And then competitive multiplayer is well above 240 Hz with the top 15-20 CPUs (k, x, X3D, non extra letter)

NVious

While having the Halo Gaming CPU is important, that's not what most customers buy (saying that as someone who recently bought a Ryzen 5 7600). As long as both AMD and Intel offer competitive products in the $200-$300 range for the bulk of the market, consumers will be in a good place.

Chris Rijk

Arguably, AMD's hegemony is not complete until they release Dragon Range-X. Also arguably it is not complete until all major OEMs and pre-builders offer X3D parts on their gaming desktops. I get the feeling that almost all X3D parts are going to the DIY market - I did a quick check and couldn't find any X3D pre-build options from Dell, HP or Lenovo even though they all offer AMD options.

MelodicWarrior

Given where Intel is with supply, I am thinking that Intel is in for some rougher waters still. If we look at the regular client space where gaming, office and home uses are, Intel coming in with Raptor Refresh is only going to be a good thing if two Critical factors are fulfilled. The first is OEM's and other partners manage to dump off mist of the 12th gen products they have before the year is over. The second is they would need to be able to provide parts and chips to their partners in a more timely fashion. If neither criteria is met, then Intel will be out of the game until Arrow Lake. If Intel is out then I could see a scenario where AMD becomes the "best seller" for a long extended period in the retail space.

Woody Chang

The 7800X3D was as expected, so there weren't any surprises in regards to gaming performance and productivity shortcomings because of the lower core count. But, definitely kudos on the efficiency, which probably needs to be brought up more.

Woody Chang

As for Intel, I would guess that if Raptor Lake's refresh actually beats the 7000 X3D parts by 3-5% in gaming and/or productivity, maybe it will be enough to maintain mindshare. However, what about later on? Even if Meteor Lake gets a desktop part, it sounds like it would be hamstrung a bit compared to Zen 5 in gaming because of being 6P+8E configuration, despite any IPC gains. Let's not forget that the motherboard costs that people slammed AMD for during the 7000 series launch will come back to haunt Intel, as you'll have to upgrade to a new socket and chipset for possible desktop Meteor Lake or more likely Arrow Lake upgrades. Perhaps if the tile architecture is able to save on costs, then Intel can lower processor prices and be the value brand. That's much harder to do when your financials are tanking and need every bit of revenue you can. To be fair to Intel, when AMD introduced Ryzen, I think they were in far worse shape and managed to survive.

qhfreddy

I think I'm kinda impressed at how much vcache is hurting the clocks of the 7800X3D, I can understand the drop off in all core clocks for power/thermal reasons but the voltage limits seem to have really hurt the boost clocks in gaming. I wonder how fast it would have been if they could use most of the clock range of the 7700X.

qhfreddy

I continue to be disappointed by AMDs software/driver implementation for the zen4 X3D parts, Techpowerup for example encountered a big where changing processors from a 7950X3D to a 7800X3D led to the AMD PPM scheduler treating the system as if it still had a 7950X3D in it... I honestly think this is worse than the problems Intel had with Alder Lake and DRM because DRM software has historically been extremely buggy and finnicky and these are not parts of the software stack controlled by Intel. AMD is entirely in control over how they implement the scheduler and their drivers, and again it just comes across as half baked. The AMD "bad drivers" meme will continue to be something buyers believe in if it isn't fixed.

Aiden Maltbie

It's fast, and it's efficient. But so is my 5600x.

Anonymous

Paying $450 for an eight core CPU in 2023 is kinda absurd in my opinion. Even Intel has more "cores" at this price point (or perhaps the 7900 non X). This CPU should have been $400 tops, and they should have cut the prices of the remaining 8 and 6 core parts a bit further. Gaming performance looks great though otherwise. I think when AMD finally moves to bigger CCDs these X3D parts will really shine.