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TLOU Wrap Up Discussion Episodes 7-9 (Patreon)

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2023-07-07 16:31:25
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More of our ramblings! We honestly could not stop talking about this whole series for like an hour lol Please don't hesitate to tell us if we are way off base with any of our conclusions/theories 😂 We love hearing from you and about all the little things we didn't catch. (Also please tell us season 2 is coming soon 😭)


Arcane starting next Friday! Hopefully you stick around to enjoy that with us as well! 💕

-Haylo & Kiss XOXO

Comments

Freddie D

It’s one of my top shows ever… You two are going to think about it everyday for a long time and thats the brilliance of this show. The ending with Joel was meant to make people feel conflicted. Heres the thing, that man had his life ruined 20 years earlier. He never thought he’d be close like that again with someone and it happened. All you have to do is put yourself in his shoes and theres your answer. Now about the lying part every parent has lied to keep their kids safe from stuff. I believe he wanted to shield her from the stuff that he did to save her from a certain death, for an uncertain be all cure. I mean they were gonna do brain surgery in that run down old hospital. If you listen carefully you can hear the Dr ask if they have enough electrical power. That in itself told me they were ill equipped for something of that caliber. Please do your self a favor if your gonna look into the next game dont spoil it for yourselves either play it or watch a play through and please if you do please post reactions to that. They’re saying season 2 wont start filming till the end of the year and the writers strike may have pushed that back… What a fun discovery you have been!

Fangtorn

Yeah, you're definitely supposed to be conflicted. The fandom is still divided on whether Joel did the right thing ten years after the game came out. Personally, I'm in the camp that Joel is in the wrong, though it's understandable why he did what he did. I think he's the bad guy the same way Henry is a bad guy, not because he's evil but because he "did a bad guy thing" to save someone he loves. A big theme of this story is the dark side of love. In my opinion Ellie would've totally sacrificed herself. It seems to me she's been struggling with survivor's guilt ever since Riley died and she didn't, and it's only be compounded by the death of Tess, Henry and Sam. Joel knows this, she all but told him she was willingly to die to find the Fireflies, and that's why he lies to her. He doesn't want her resenting him or running off to find more Fireflies. This all could've been avoided if Marlene had asked Ellie, but to ask you have to be willing to take no for an answer, and the Fireflies aren't. If Ellie says no and they let her walk out of there mostly likely the human race goes extinct. Even a tiny chance of a vaccine at the cost of the life of one girl is worth to potentially save humanity, at least in the Fireflies' and my opinion.

Creative Geek

Well said Freddie! I don't think Joel is a bad person, if you suffer a great loss before it's so hard to go through it again and he can't lose her.

Freddie D
>>112403905

I totally understand what you’re saying. Joel since playing the first game in 2013 has become my favorite character in a show or movie. I got Luke Skywalker as my favorite as a kid and Joel Miller as favorite modern day

Rufus May

When Joel asks Ellie if she wants to turn back and stay with Tommy, and she says she wants to finish what they started even though it's dangerous, that's the question and answer to what choice she would have made.

Freddie D
>>112405498

This is the brilliance of this story 10 years later everyone still has their way of what Joel should of done. That ladies got it right when they were talking about it. No black and white the grey aspect

Chris Unknown

"Also please tell us season 2 is coming soon" Sadly it could be end of 2024, or early 2025. IF we are lucky. Because of the writer and actor strikes that have been happening it could end up later than that. Fingers crossed!

Soccerdmon

First, amazing reactions. Glad I came across your channel and am planning to stick around and see what you guys are serving up. This show was amazing! I never played the game, but am planning to. I love how they do leave it as a grey tone, 'who was right, if there was a right way'. I'm definitely team Joel on this. He over compensated his lies when he could have made it an easier lie, not saying lying was correct, but definitely made it more complicated to come back from. Ellie definitely knows how Joel thinks and works. She's been with him for months. So it's safe to say she knows he's lying. Also, ep 8 had a lot of snow and it was snowing as they were heading away. Ep 9, no snow, so it had been some time between the events and she is still trying to make sense of things. Roles have been reversed, Joel trying to be the light hearted caring person and Ellie is closed off and tucked away. Marlene was not "the only one who understood" what has to happen. She said she was there when she was born, as if she played some part in it, but she didn't. She didn't even want to take the child anywhere, but finally agreed to do it. Then she dumped her off at Fedra never to be seen again until Ellie is bitten. That tear they focused on with Marlene was not for lying to Ellie, but breaking the promise to her friend. She had no relationship with Ellie and was only ever worried about a possible cure. They 'thought' that they could find out what made the 'immunity' work. Basically, they would be dissecting her to figure it out first, starting in the brain, if they could at all. My thought is that Marlene was not trying to find this cure for all the people in the world, but more selfish reasons. So that she can finish her purpose as the Firefly leader and remove Fedra. It's just trading one regime for another. Should Ellie really have a say in what happens, tough to say. I know some therapists (friends/family) that have all stated that a child should never make that kind of decision no matter the situation/world/etc they live in. Children are not fully developed in their mental capabilities until in their 20's. And even then, it's still questionable. So, did a father save his child from certain death, yes. Did a father lie to keep his child safe from physical, emotional, and mental harm, yes. What parent wouldn't. Plus, they were both planning on living after the whole ordeal. "And after we're done...I'll follow you wherever you go..."

zelda 💫

You ARE supposed to be confused.

zelda 💫

^oops I didn't realize enter meant I sent it immediately. I have MORE THOUGHTS. Playing the game was even more confusing. We had to play AS Joel for hours, with some time as Ellie, and there was no way to finish the game without killing everyone. It creates a cognitive dissonance because I KNEW the Fireflies weren't necessarily wrong, but... I didn't want Ellie to die. Joel didn't either. I think it puts you in a position of caring for Ellie and wanting to protect her, only to flip that on you and force you to make difficult choices if you want to save her life. From Joel's perspective, I don't think he cared about right or wrong. He just cared about Ellie. I'm not sure if it makes him a villain, but it makes him a villain in the eyes of a lot of people. Also, I think you're right that Ellie 100% would have made the choice to die because of the events of the prior episode. That begs the question... would that be for the right reason? Like, should someone suffering from depression or trauma, a child no less, be told that if she died then she might save the world? Of course Ellie would have said yes, but that doesn't mean she was in the right mindset to even make that choice. I don't think Joel was thinking of all that, but there are a lot of factors to consider. Ellie is still a child and shouldn't have the burden of the world on her shoulders. Killing one to save many still isn't a moral choice to make, and is that a society we want to endure?

Daniel jackson

Will you watch the game cutscenes, or prefer to stick to the show?

Soccerdmon
>>112409566

Yes, I'm right there with you that they knew exactly who they were. They also had radios on, so it is also safe to assume they radioed it in and Marlene instructed them to do what they did. The way they did the music and lower the ambient noises wasn't a sense of happiness or even a victory coming up. It was more of a sadness that this situation had to happen. They all did a great job of acting their parts and portraying every emotion. Right up there with Band of Brothers...lol.

Haylo

The more I dwell on it (and read these comments 😅) the less confused I am. It was just so shocking to witness the contrast in the Joel we've heard about, and the Joel we've actually seen up until that point. Though we did get a sneak peek in Episode 8! The fact that there is no "right answer" makes it such a great story.... It's so much more relatable than the "good vs. evil" that we usually get in writing! No one is 100% good or bad (except for David heck that guy) and that's what makes us human. We will be thinking about this one for a LONG time! - Haylo

silverarrow06
>>112481905

Yes, exactly my thoughts! 🙂 This story isn't about apocalypse or zombies. Not even about fungi. It's about love and what you're willing to do for the people you love. If I remember correctly you said you'll start with "Arcane" some time soon? I have the distinct feeling you will love that show as much as this one. 😊

Ryan Wilson

Today this show got 24 Emmy nominations. top three are: Best drama series, outstanding leading actor in a drama series(Pedro Pascal) and outstanding leading actress in a drama series(Bella Ramsey.)

simpLeXity

Sorry for being late to the party but this caught me during a small vacation/family time and I didn't want to watch the finale and this on the run. It seems everything was touched on already in the comments, no-one is all good or all bad (except Dave and Kathleen). Marlene took the politician approach, doing it for the greater good justifies killing soldiers and a girl even if the cure wasn't a sure thing. Joel has seen what people turned into and considers them worse than the infected, definitely not worth losing his new daughter for them. His fear of losing her was also greater than her knowing the truth, he can't risk it. Ellie is afraid of ending up alone and everyone betrayed her trust, she knows, will she let herself believe it? I don't know if you 2 are gamers, if not, you should definitely watch the first game's play-thrtough at least, maybe even react to it for us, i think it will be fun to discuss the differences and we can all pretend it didn't end yet lol

Barbie Pootsky

I haven't read through all the comments so I don't know if this has been said already, but the Joel you saw take down the Fireflies is the Joel that Robert in the first episode was petrified of. In Ep 1 when Ellie asked "What are they capable of?" This was it. Also, I think its a little limiting to think in terms of was the cure possible. Joel thought it would be. He even said "find someone else." So, when he went on his rampage, his mindset was "Screw the world, I'm saving her." That is where you have to judge his actions. Marlene didn't give Ellie the option because if Ellie said no, the fireflies would still do the operation. Joel didn't allow her to wake up beforehand because if she said yes, he wouldn't allow the operation to happen. Its two dedicated people fighting over the destiny of a girl who has no say. Whichever side you are on, what Marlene and Joel did is wrong. Ellie is the only one here who isn't in the gray Also, ABSOLUTELY play the game!

CaptainMaakasu

Late to the party of the TLoU watching, had to binge it after I finished your OP watchalong ^^' I love your reactions! And I know most of us would love to watch you play the game or at least react to the cutscenes from the game + the left alone DLC, which was adapted in episode 6. From what I've heard the 2nd game will be split up in 2 seasons, and from the reactions of this season... I can simply say you're not gonna like season 2, but I can't wait for your reactions <3