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Angel S05E16 - Shells FULL REACTION (Patreon)

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2019-08-01 22:41:21
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Comments

Adrian G

Aww Shan *hugs*

Second_Strike

Haven't watched yet, but looking forward to seeing Shan's opinions on Gunn. My least favorite part of these episodes is the other characters treatment of him. I get that they are confused/scared and looking for somebody to blame, but he can hardly be blamed any more than anybody else can just for their accepting jobs at Wolfram and Hart. Or Fred who is supposed to have a genius level intelligence and be an expert in the physical and metaphysical who decides to poke/prod random objects with no protective gear. He kinda gets made the scapegoat when he had zero way of knowing the outcome of his decision.

Duck
>>25339555

Agree w/ you about Gunn. And re: Fred: lol I know! Like obviously it's not her fault, Knox is the one to blame here, but c'mon girl, wear a Hazmat suit or something! Or get one of your employees to excavate the sarcophagus; I wouldn't imagine a particle physicist would be all that great at it anyway.

Anonymous

I would literally pay money to see Illyria fight Glory, or at least see an interaction between them 😂

Mementovitae

Even though the events of the previous episode broke me, Illyria is a freaking amazing character. One of my favs for sure. And I love how unintentionally funny she is.

Ariel17

Some amazing acting in these last 2 eps, especially Amy Acker, so effortlessly switching to this Illyria persona. And surprisingly J. August Richards, all the scenes he tearfully hides his shame and guilt. I also love the last scene with Wes and Illyria talking about how he’ll help her cause she looks like Fred. That soft painful “yes” he gives......just really powerful acting all around. There’s also some foreshadowing about Fred’s death in previous eps I think, like in season 4 when Gunn and Fred go after that boy before he gets in contact with Jasmine, Fred responds to Gunn about Angel saying they needed to be emotionless to survive, she responds (paraphrasing): “I’d rather still feel something then become a shell....”.

Brendan O'Connor

Between this episode and Hole In The World, this made Knox one of my most hated characters in the Buffyverse. I’m glad Wesley got him, I just wish he suffered more.

Richard Lucas

1) ASR, if you are feeling bad at Angel ending soon and you like David’s work, watch Bones which he also stars in. Twelve seasons to keep you going! 2) have you ever watched South Park? Over 20 seasons! 3) Don’t forget about 7 seasons of Xena which aired around the same time as Buffy and the two shows were often compared to each other. Willow even jokingly asks why Buffy didn’t go dressed as Xena in the season 2 Halloween episode when Buffy dressed as a helpless Victorian damsel.

mossomness (Amanda Moss)

Fun fact: The character of Illyria was created because of a Shakespeare reading at Joss' house. They were performing Romeo and Juliet, and Amy was playing Lady Capulet. Apparently, she accessed a vocal range none of them had heard her do, and she was really scary. She was so good that Joss wanted to show the world what Amy was capable of. So he created the character of Illyria.

Ariel17
>>25343315

Another moment of foreshadowing was more recently in the episode “Soul Purpose”. During Angels hallucination dream Fred does surgery on him and removes a bunch of random stuff from his torso, and at the end she remarks: “There’s nothing left— just an empty shell.”

FernWithy
>>25341674

I was just thinking about that. I wonder if they ever went up against each other in the old days.

FernWithy

The way they handled not having the Buffy characters in it--"WE DON'T TRUST YOU!"--is not my favorite. I'd have rather they just ignored them. Or used them properly.

FernWithy
>>25342114

Yeah, I always feel guilty about the fact that I LIKE Illyria. I miss Fred, but Amy Acker's creation of this character from nothing in seconds was... amazing.

Anonymous

I always feel so torn by these two episodes, they really are amazing episodes, some of the best in the series, but they are definitely sad. Also while I loved Fred and it's sad to see her go, Illyria is actually a really interesting character.

Claire Eyles

When the previous episode first aired I was so sure, because it was the last ever season of Angel, that Joss would go against type and Fred would be saved. I should have known it's Joss Whedon & no one gets a happy ending in the Jossverse. But then we got Illyria, and Amy Acker's performance was so amazing that Illyria actually became one of my all time favourites of any of the Angel characters in the series. It was a very confusing time, mourning the death of one beloved character whilst amping over the new character that had caused her death - and they're both played by the same person.

Chess Red Eagle
>>25344283

No win situation there. It was already established 4 or 5 episodes ago that they didn't trust Angel and the gang. If they had helped Fred it would have ignored that canon and felt like a cop out.

Thomas Hansen

I like when episodes are able to make me really sad, so I like these episodes.

Claire Eyles

Knox reminds me a little of Warren as well, in that they both appeared to think they were bigger than what they really were. With Warren you see Rack looking down on him as he's trying to brag about how evil his 'Trio' is, and with Knox he's all, "I'm with the King" and Illyria is just like, "My last Qwa'ha Xahn was taller", and tells him to shut up.

Scarlett Monrow

1) Logically thinking, if searching for a solution with least damage, Angel should have withdrew Illyria to the Deeper Well. It's better for 100 thousands to die (then continue existence on another plane) , then for one soul to be destroyed. It's like there would be a choice: 100 thousands get sick with nasty flu and recover or one person dies. 2) I really like that the show had the guts to kill off both female characters, it made it much more realistic.

John Boehmer

Love Fred. Love Illyria. Love Amy.

J.D.
>>25343580

... And then gave her and Alexis Denisof the lead roles in a Shakespeare movie he made himself, which she utterly stole. Win!

J.D.

I have to assume that this was actually how the intended the season to end. Illyria wakes up in ep. 15 or so, they battle her for a few episodes (a la The Beast), eventually she wins but discovers her army dead, and then the last scene of the finale is effectively the last scene of this episode. Then on to season 6 (which may or may not have resembled the way the rest of this season plays out - I don't know).

Timotey Kuhn

After what has been happening, you absolutely have NO reason to apologise for anything at all.

Brian Søndergaard

Awwwww. Shan...... :( Last episode broke you. Big hug.

BOO

I love the ending song, it gets me every time! And Fred driving off, saying goodbye - it's so bittersweet.

Anonymous

One of the saddest episodes but also a really good one. I loved Fred but I'm glad Amy is still on the show, Illyria is great.

Emma goldsbrough

another emotional eps. Gosh Joss does not like couple been together.

Mike Woodcock

In retrospect, Wesley was so perfectly happy in Smile Time that I thought he would turn into Angelis. A happy Wesley was a death sentence for Fred. We all know the drill by now.

Anonymous

Sadness apart, The character of Illyria shows us the good actress Amy Acker is. Playing two so different characters is great.

Loves Bitca

At first I thought you said that Crawl should have a Warrior's death. I thought hell no he doesn't deserve a warriors death. Then I realized you said a Warren death. It's funny, I went on a binge the other day, rewatching a bunch of your old reactions. Remember how much you hated Wesley when he first appeared on Buffy? Times they do change.

Jason Veevaert
>>25380782

And if it makes you feel any better, fred does still exist, just inside of Illyria.

Jason Veevaert
>>25380782

Fred's soul is contained inside of Illyria, kind of like angels in supernatural, except her shell is now conventinally unbreakable.

BHillzebub
>>25380782

Sorry. Have to disagree here. Fred's soul was (and I quote) "burned up in the fires of creation". Nothing of Fred exists within Illyria with the exeption of memories. :(

Claire Eyles

I almost forgot as well, I've been trying to track this down but there's an interview/q&a thing with James Marsters I remember seeing ages ago, where he talks about a take the did in the sword fight scene with Amy Acker as Illyria there's a moment when part of him isn't actually acting. They touched on it in the Angel reunion, that the rest of the cast were wondering how Amy was going to handle playing a character like Illyria because she's such a sweet person in real life. When it came time to film the fight scene, there was apparently a moment when James Masters in character as Spike is looking at Illyria like he's taken aback at her strength, but during the scene James Marsters was also thinking, "Holy shit, you're terrifying!" so what they got from the scene was a mix of Spike's character reaction and an actor's response to how the scene was being played as well. I don't think they confirmed if that was the take that made it into the actual episode though.

Dennis Bryant
>>25352749

I have seen it several times now, and it still breaks me. These two episodes were pretty rough on the emotions, and I expected them to really hit her hard, especially how hard she shipped Fred and Wesley.

Dennis Bryant
>>25380782

Yeah, Illyria says as much about the "fragments" that remain, tiny bits and peices of memories, not anything more. But they are a part of her now.

Ron Fehr

Although I don't like what happened to Fred, I also don't like the idea of wishing someone dead. People may deserve it, but we should not wish anyone dead.

Ron Fehr

I'm confused. If vampires can't get drunk, then why was Spike drunk when he showed up on season three of Buffy?

Loves Bitca
>>25681210

Vampires Can get drunk. Spikes been drunk many times. They just have a high resistance like many things, and it takes a hell of a lot. Spike just couldn't get drunk off of those little tiny bottles.

Ron Fehr
>>25681210

Larry Berry My thinking too. I seldom drink, but I would think a normal person might just get a small buzz from those little bottles.