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Angel S04E22 - Home FULL REACTION (Patreon)

Published:
2019-04-26 10:34:47
Edited:
2019-07-27 01:42:05
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OneHub link: https://ws.onehub.com/files/nacfebr8

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/27fd1sjz63i1kv8/Angel%20S04E22%20-%20Home%20FULL%20REACTION.mp4?dl=0

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Comments

Kelly Marie

This episode is so sad. Poor Connor, even though he can piss you off like there’s no tomorrow.. you can clearly see the pain and torment in his eyes. He never would of changed, too much damage was done by Holtz and living in that hell dimension so I think Angel did the right thing. So wolfram & hart belong to the A team now, let the fun begin :)

Anonymous

shan please dont watch the opening credits scene for angel just for the very first episode, im sure people on here that watch angel know it contains spoilers

Freddy Bowman
>>22125402

What makes you think Shan would watch Angel S5x1 before she's finished watching Buffy S7? Not gonna happen. There's no need to be concerned about her being spoiled in this instance. She's smarter than that.

Anonymous

i know shes watching buffy first lol im just saying it now in the angel comments

Anonymous

oh okay just saw ur comment zoot my bad lol i dont go in the comment section enough to see other people have already suggested this

Zoot!
>>22125888

So you're aware, there are a half dozen mods and Dipper (the best ever!!!) on Discord, plus a bunch of regular patrons that help with this sort of thing.

BaoziBang

Hiii, I want to become a Patreon for a higher Tier in the next 2 Months (depending on when I finally get the rest of my Pension 😂) and just wanted to ask if anyone requested the Pilot for Lost Girl yet?!

Zoot!
>>22126357

Yes the pilot for that has already been watched. I think it was one of the earlier ones.

Brian Søndergaard

Am I the only one who for once thought Connor was a tad bit interesting? Sure when he first appeared he was, but turned out kinda bland imo.

Spencer Williams

By opening credits, they actually mean the opening song, not the usual credits that come afterward. Though maybe you knew that already. Anyway, I like this finale a lot and what it sets up. I can't believe we've finally made it to Season 5 of Angel. It also happens to be my favorite season of the entire Buffyverse, so I can't wait for you to experience it.

Holi117

I was really tearing up at the end, its been awhile since i watched season 4!

Emma goldsbrough

Great reaction. can't wait to see your reaction to season 5

Jason Veevaert

He gave his son a happy life even if he meant he wasn’t there for it

Chaotic Cam
>>22126780

If written right, and a better actor, his story had potential to be maybe not great, but a lot more sympathetic and interesting then it turned out. The concept itself was interesting.

Tammy L. Faulkner

So, like I've said before... Least favorite season, but, the ending KINDA made up for it. Going into my #1 favorite season and can't wait to see your reaction.

Bruce Trogdon

There are a lot of interesting 'behind-the-scenes' stories out there about how this final version of the Season Four story came about, but most of them probably include spoilers for S5 so ignore them for a while longer. I like season four, even though it wasn't a very good year for Angel the Champion who started in a box on the bottom of the sea, lost his destiny in Vegas, lost Cordy again (in multiple ways), lost his mission of helping the hopeless (in fact he ended up helping the perfectly happy), lost Manny, lost himself for a while to Angelus and to Jasmine. Angel's metaphoric alter egos got the big wins: Angelus killed the Beast and Connor killed Jasmine. On the positive side, Angel captured Skip, convinced Faith to keep working on her redemption and released the North American television audience from Jasmine's thrall. Plus we got an episode with Fred, Faith and Willow which was very cool. And at the end, after all the talk about the importance of free will, Angel disregards it all and makes a deal with an evil law firm in order to give his son the happy life he never had.

Will Crow

S5 is amazing and I've never seen anyone do reactions for it! Glad you've made it this far!

Anonymous

I am SO SO excited for you to watch Season 5. I've stated before that Buffy in my opinion was the better of the two shows overall...but Season 5 of Angel is the best single season of either show. You're the first reactor I've had a chance to observe through this season, and I cannot wait!

Ariel17

So.....I’m guessing I’m in the minority based on the comments I’ve seen, but I actually REALLY enjoy this season (doesn’t mean it’s my favorite or objectively the best). Of course I’m upset with how Cordys story arc was written this season and at the same time I like to appreciate the opportunity it gives the actress to flex new acting muscles and playing the evil character. But with this finale and especially the ending scene with Connors new life is why I enjoy the season as a whole, because that scene perfectly bookends the season with the very opening scene of the season 4 premiere. Angel, at the dinner table, observing a happy family. Only in the beginning it was his idealized vision of what a happy family looks like, and the end it’s him observing from the outside, a happy family scene. Both scenes are essentially fantasy (Angel hallucinating in the first and the second with Connor and this new family living with fake memories, like Dawn as ASR mentions). And it just portrays how important the concept of family is to both Angel, and of course Connor. Throughout the whole season there are moments where Connor shows his yearning for a family (like when he saves that family when their car breaks down, or when he feels sick to his stomach at the sight of the Svear family being butchered, to this episode where he is irate at the cop who almost committed suicide leaving a wife and child). And after everything that went down at the end of season 3, Ángel has a hard time providing Connor with a stable family and home life (understandably, Angel has been through some shit). But ultimately, this rare opportunity that was given to Angel (being a father) was difficult for Angel to deal with, since his destiny is so much more important in some respects. So Angel comes to the realization that in order to continue his mission while still doing what any parent wants (ensuring their child’s happiness) he sacrifices that opportunity to be a father. Both Buffy and Angel shows have shown that the greatest form of love is sacrifice, and this is a huge sacrifice for Angel. Plus that scene between Connor and Angel in the store, right before they fight, I feel is the rawest and most emotional scene from David Boreanaz. Really great scenes all around, and exciting setup for season 5!

Shawn Skelton

S5 is by far the best season. Can't wait to see how you enjoy the premiere!

Chris (darkwater)

S4 has flaws for sure but I do like it much better after Jasmine appears.

Mike Woodcock

Never been sure why Connor's character didn't work for some fans. For me, his story and endless resentment really made sense and added a lot to the show.

Zoot!

And so ends one of the weirdest seasons ever. I have to admit, it was a little bit fun seeing your annoyance with Cordy's storyline. I completely felt the same way, so I got to relive the annoyance. I'm actually glad that Connor got a happy ending. Can't wait to see how Wolfram & Hart turns out! :)

KiwiJello

I am with you Shan. Conner has always been one of my least favorite stories in this Buffyverse. Can't even tell you why so much as he was off-putting and really rude, but he never softened up to counter it. Not even with Cordie. He was like the embodiment of Angels brooding LOL

KiwiJello
>>22151041

The timing couldn't be better. A couple of days ago, Charisma Carpenter nailed a reporter for lying about this storyline being a sort of punishment for her getting pregnant. She nailed them on twitter and called them. Makes me love her even more!

o

The ending arc of series 4 of Angel is one of Joss Whedon's worst moments as a creator. He did all of that to Charisma Carpenter's character of Cordelia because he was upset with her for not telling him earlier about her pregnancy. Joss felt it forced him to take time away from the ending of Buffy to rethink the story arc of this season. This was Joss behaving as a child and the character of Cordelia suffered for it. If you get the chance you should go check out the backstory on this, it was a lot better and ended up getting Charisma Carpenter blackballed by the CW for a bit.

Bruce Trogdon
>>22156355

Charisma recently tweeted (4/20/19) that there was NO hiding of the pregnancy during AtS 4. She has said the same thing over the years, and numerous writers have backed her up, that when she found out she was pregnant, she let everyone know. But this rumor continues.

o
>>22156355

what are you talking about?

Bellatronics
>>22156355

Totally with you Taz. This is why I hate season 4, for what Joss did to Charisma and her character. Not the feminist he used to think he was. We didn't actually get to see Cordelia all season, just some higher being possessing her, yet we don't get to find that out for long time, therefore assassinating her character until that is revealed. I miss Cordy so much this season. And then she's just left in a coma at the end of it. There was no need for that - they could have easily written that she came out of the coma when Connor killed Jasmine. Since Charisma was available to be in that scene unconscious, then she could have come out of it and had a few lines. And look at Shan's reaction to Cordy being wrapped in explosives by Connor - no real emotional reaction or concern for Cordy. NOT blaming Shan at all !!! - maybe Shan just thought Connor wouldn't actually press the detonator, it would be too dark a turn in the story. But maybe instead - or as well - it's that this season drained away people's love for Cordy - and that's so sad. :'(

Bruce Trogdon
>>22156355

Yeah, sorry. Charisma's original tweet was why I posted the link. Lot's of comments are spoilery as is the article she was referencing. Look for allcharisma on twitter if you're interested.

Bellatronics
>>22156355

Well Bruce, maybe she's trying to smooth things over, because when actresses in Hollywood complain about how they are treated when they are pregnant, that get hardly any work for years. Boys club y'know. It would make total sense for her to later on be papering over everything that happened, cos she's the one that got black balled - and I presume wants more work. I would really have to hunt out the links somewhere, I don't know if I have them - but I am backing up Taz here that this wasn't all just some rumuor in fandom - it came from stuff Charisma herself said, in interviews I think? In any case, the arc for Cordy in this season SUCKED. We didn't actually see Cordy ALL season apart from in a coma. Before the coma it was a higher being possessing her and it was awful plot and character assassination ( i.e because we did not know this for so long, she was acting weird for ages with no explanation).

Bellatronics

For how I feel about season 4 - see Taz Simms post above. This is why I hate season 4, for what Joss did to Charisma and her character. Not the feminist he used to think he was. [Ok I’m repeating here on Cordy/Charisma- forgive me - but it’s my feelings on the whole season and it flows into the other parts of this post.] We didn't actually get to see Cordelia all season, just some higher being possessing her, yet we don't get to find that out for long time, therefore assassinating her character until that is revealed. I miss Cordy so much this season. And then she's just left in a coma at the end of it. There was no need for that - they could have easily written that she came out of the coma when Connor killed Jasmine. Since Charisma was available to be in that scene unconscious, then she could have come out of it and had a few lines. And look at Shan's reaction to Cordy being wrapped in explosives by Connor - no real emotional reaction or concern for Cordy. NOT blaming Shan at all !!! - maybe Shan just thought Connor wouldn't actually press the detonator, it would be too dark a turn in the story. But maybe instead - or as well - it's that this season drained away people's love for Cordy - and that's so sad. :'( I find Connor an absolute pain in the arse too. I have a bit more sympathy than Shan for why he is though. Growing up in a hell dimension is gonna fuck you up. So much that he could not accept any love or learn any lessons once he got back to the his father’s dimension. But despite understanding why he’s like this - I agree with Kiwi Jello above. Connor is not played with any sympathy, he doesn’t have any redeeming factors - only knowing in our heads what happened to him. But is we don’t actually see any softer or compassionate side of this character actually on screen, then that is not enough. So yeah, I really dislike season 4 - much more on re-watches, so this is my first full one and it annoyed me more than the first time. I don’t like the Jasmine arc either. The only parts I like are Spin The Bottle, the Faith arc, and Willow’s appearance. Especially her wee bit of chemistry with Fred there - that woulda been an awesome ship, so much better than Kennedy!! ( The only person I could see Willow with after Tara - they would be so cute!!!!!!!!) Oh - and I liked Angelus’ re-appearance to a degree, but I felt that was a bit wasted. I was frustrated at bringing him back only to be locked in a cage most of the time, and then not do very much when he got out. And also! ( LOL) - the Beast and rain of fire arc. All that was shot through with annoyance at Connor and the Cordy not being herself stuff though, so taints the parts I do like. I didn’t post a few of these things on the appropriate episode reactions partly because life has caused me to be knackered a lot, and partly cos I’ve felt drained by this season and lacking in energy for it. I watched it anyway, cos it’s a very long time since i’ve seen it and I wanted a full re-watch/refresher before season 5 - which I often just watch on it’s own, going straight from the end of Buffy re-watches. I’m not sure it was worth it, and may not watch the full length reactions for season 4 with other reactors - not even Liam! Well, not all of them anyway. I wanted to wait to the end to say my frustration with what Joss did to Charisma & Cordy, cos I didn’t want to expectation spoiler that her story this season gets no better at any point. Hence all my complaints and ranting in one big post, LOL.

Bellatronics
>>22156355

Woah - ok Bruce. What Charisma said there - is that she "never HID her pregnancy from production". This sounds very much like anger at lies ( that she mentions in her tweet) - that she deliberately 'hid' her pregnancy from Joss/production team. i.e all the articles, comments etc in the media/from 'fans' that blame Charisma for what happened in season 4 - that it is her fault that the storyline had to be changed and for 'causing problems by hiding being pregnant'. Charisma had a previous miscarriage, so she waited a bit to be sure things were ok that time before saying she was pregnant. But that is not HIDING it - every pregnant woman has the rights over her own body and to decide when to tell this information, including to employers. Especially since it WAS still early in the pregnancy when she told Joss/the writers - end of the 1st trimester I think. That's still really early and a failry usually time to tell an employer about being pregnant. NOWHERE Bruce does she say in that tweet, that all of the troubles on the set of season 4 and the way she was mistreated and the bitterness with which her character's arc was re-written badly - Charisma DOES NOT SAY that none of that happened, deny all of her previous many statements on this and say it was all rumour. You are contributing Bruce to white-washing over mistreatment of women actors on Hollywood. Please do not do that.

Bellatronics
>>22156355

AH ! SHAN - DO NOT READ THAT TWEET - or at least not the thread of comments below. There are spoilers in it from comments from Charisma herself about season 5 !! Bruce - you should have checked for spoilers there.

Bellatronics
>>22156355

To summarise though leaving out the spoilers, below the initial tweet, Charisma writes again of her anger and hurt at how she was treated on the show just for being pregnant. She reiterates - the bit that is ‘rumour’ - is that she hid it and it’s her fault.

Bruce Trogdon
>>22156355

And NOWHERE in my post do I say that all of the troubles on the set of season 4 was her fault. I referenced a comment from Charisma Carpenter in which she said she did not hide her pregnancy as a reply to the OP about Joss being upset because CC did not tell him about the pregnancy earlier than she did which implies that she intentionally hid the fact. Thanks for pointing out the spoilers on the link.

o
>>22156355

so your comment had nothing to do with what I wrote? But the narrative you wanted to get out about what I wrote? I am so lost right now. Are you saying that I said it was her fault? I blamed Joss Whedon for this/

o
>>22156355

Charisma Carpenter was the victim in this.

o
>>22156355

and the viewers because this thing started off so well and kind of went off the rails there at the end. I enjoyed the season overall but you can tell that something was up and it cost us the character of Cordelia Chase and the reasons are kind of petty.

Bellatronics
>>22156355

Bruce & Taz - I think there's been a misunderstanding here and we all actually agree with one another and are supporting Charisma. I'm knackered now though, so will come back to this soon & say more.

Bruce Trogdon
>>22156355

Taz wrote: "The ending arc of series 4 of Angel is one of Joss Whedon's worst moments as a creator. He did all of that to Charisma Carpenter's character of Cordelia because he was upset with her for not telling him earlier about her pregnancy." The phrase "not telling him earlier" implies (at least to me) that she had been keeping it a secret from him which was fresh in my mind because of CC's tweet from a week ago in which she wrote that she never hid her pregnancy from production. I don't know all the details of what happened but the point I was trying to make was that, according to CC, whatever happened was not because she was hiding her pregnancy.

o
>>22156355

Now I get it, my words and thought were construed as something that I did not state but might be implied. Fair enough, it is sometimes difficult to understand intent in writing. For future reference in the future if I mean to say that CC was hiding her pregnancy I will state that "CC was hiding her pregnancy from Joss".

Ron Fehr

Remember the episode in season three where Angel was going to take the elevator to visit the home office of Wolfram & Hart? And remember who was taking Angel there. Holland Manners. He told Angel the same thing that Lilah told the group. Their contracts extended beyond death.

BOO

I hated Connor during my first viewing of the show too but the tragedy of his character kinda hit me later in life I guess. Now some of Connor's scenes get me really emotional, maybe because I know how things end for him and I've had years to digest everything.

Anonymous

I'm sorry. I was one of the people banging with the "don't watch the credits" thing. I just join patreo, soooo maybe I wrote it again today on youtube before pledging here. Sorry again. Enjoy S5, imho is the best Angel season and one of the best series finale in series history

Anonymous
>>22143951

Everything you've written is brilliant. I totally agree. Right from the beginning of this episode, when Connor nearly shoved that cop after finding out he had a family and was contemplating suicide, I knew at that moment that Connor wasn't gonna let him off easy. Connor got really pissed at the idea that this man had a family and he was going to leave him which to him would be a terrible thing. Connor didn't have a family, a home to go to so he felt that deep jealousy over those who do and you can see how wounded he feels every time he sees people who have what he never really had. Also, I like that you saw how much of that scene at the mall where Angel confronts Connor before he blows himself and the people around him how emotional that was for both actors. I don't think I've ever seen David get that emotional since near the end of season 3 of Buffy (or maybe it was more on Buffy's end that the raw emotion took place lol) but I'd have to say that this episode showcased the most intense father and son moment for Angel and Connor (the 2nd one would be their first meeting in (s3ep20) 'A New World' and then (s4ep1) 'Deep Down'. Anyway, that being said, I really did like how Connor's arc ended here and what Angel did to 'make it up to him.' I don't think Connor really redeemed himself... more like made things worse in the end by involving people and getting himself killed but I think that's now besides the point since this whole W&H offer opportunity would be used for a good purpose... in Angel's end mostly. I think the whole point about Connor's role is that aside from the fact that it definitely moved the story along and gives context to how much his psyche's been corrupted by Holtz brainwashing since birth (and leaving him open wounds throughout the season that's never been healed) but also you can see how much this is a parallel to people who struggle all their lives to find peace and simply couldn't find it until they find a way to end their lives instead. Some people never find that and it's really tragic that he turned out that way. There was some profound lines in Connor's dialogue with Angel about the only thing that changes everything is death. Which also mirrors Angel's life in a way. After he died, he became a vampire and then having been re-ensouled, it's like he came back to life or at least struggled to get back on it. Maybe it's one of those stages in life that Connor needed to go through. When the scene just faded to white after Angel slashed him (which happened too fast so I'm not sure if he did end up killing him?), that's probably when he decided to use what W&H has to offer by bringing him back to life with a new set of memories... or maybe he didn't kill at all 'cause I couldn't imagine Angel doing that to his own son. And speak of almost killing Connor, this definitely mirrors the very first meeting of the two: Angel holding Connor down with a knife on his other hand. Definitely a Biblical reference to Abraham sacrificing his son, Isaac (except the son wasn't trying to kill his own father or anything). ok well anyway, I've gotten on too many tangents, but I like the way this episode was set up for season 5.

Anonymous (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-09 12:05:52 For me, I actually just more like pitied Connor for making the decision to involve other people and taking them down with him as if that's going to really solve anything. 'Cause he still did have a choice and it's sad that there are people in this world who do end up in that situation that there's simply no way out from their own pain, their own misery, so they have to end it and leave a bloody mess behind. Like perhaps in his mind, the world's now in chaos after the death of Jasmine, the death of his 'offspring' through Cordy (still more ICKY with him and Cordy than the Jasmine-daughter thing lol) so why not blow a couple of innocent people who make him suffer with envy for having what he could never have. And I think that's one of the reasons why people can't sympathize with his character 'cause he might still have a chance to turn a new leaf, to change... like Faith or like Angel. But the thing about Angel is that he didn't choose to change until he was cursed. He needed to be cursed in order to be made new. I wonder if the writers thought that the way they should write Connor's arc is that it had to be Angel who'll decide for him, if he's got all the power or resources he can get to do that. And being a father, a father who truly loves his son, he'll do anything for his child. A prodigal son who could never find joy, peace, in a world that he never felt like he belonged to 'cause he was raised in hell, I think it only makes sense that as long as Angel lives, he'll find a way to bring his son back into the path he's on. Something that maybe his own father probably tried to do but maybe he just didn't know it 'cause he was rebelling at the time. It's like the tragedy of Connor is just illustrating the tragedy of Liam, in Angel's human life. Angel only became who he is after he died and I like that line Connor said about the only thing that changes everything is death. Anyway, I could go on and on about the deeper concepts here but I thought the way things ended for Connor here, with the interception of Angel, is well executed. Like it totally ties in with the whole W&H offer. I like that he made this decision in exchange for Connor's new life. He loved him so much that he was willing to sacrifice and let go of everything he believes he's risking by making a deal with this law firm. It's like going against his principles and yet if there's one thing that he knows he has to do now and that's save his son. He couldn't afford to lose Connor and I just love how they wrote that in to illustrate how much he's willing to do.
2019-05-04 20:10:04 For me, I actually just more like pitied Connor for making the decision to involve other people and taking them down with him as if that's going to really solve anything. 'Cause he still did have a choice and it's sad that there are people in this world who do end up in that situation that there's simply no way out from their own pain, their own misery, so they have to end it and leave a bloody mess behind. Like perhaps in his mind, the world's now in chaos after the death of Jasmine, the death of his 'offspring' through Cordy (still more ICKY with him and Cordy than the Jasmine-daughter thing lol) so why not blow a couple of innocent people who make him suffer with envy for having what he could never have. And I think that's one of the reasons why people can't sympathize with his character 'cause he might still have a chance to turn a new leaf, to change... like Faith or like Angel. But the thing about Angel is that he didn't choose to change until he was cursed. He needed to be cursed in order to be made new. I wonder if the writers thought that the way they should write Connor's arc is that it had to be Angel who'll decide for him, if he's got all the power or resources he can get to do that. And being a father, a father who truly loves his son, he'll do anything for his child. A prodigal son who could never find joy, peace, in a world that he never felt like he belonged to 'cause he was raised in hell, I think it only makes sense that as long as Angel lives, he'll find a way to bring his son back into the path he's on. Something that maybe his own father probably tried to do but maybe he just didn't know it 'cause he was rebelling at the time. It's like the tragedy of Connor is just illustrating the tragedy of Liam, in Angel's human life. Angel only became who he is after he died and I like that line Connor said about the only thing that changes everything is death. Anyway, I could go on and on about the deeper concepts here but I thought the way things ended for Connor here, with the interception of Angel, is well executed. Like it totally ties in with the whole W&H offer. I like that he made this decision in exchange for Connor's new life. He loved him so much that he was willing to sacrifice and let go of everything he believes he's risking by making a deal with this law firm. It's like going against his principles and yet if there's one thing that he knows he has to do now and that's save his son. He couldn't afford to lose Connor and I just love how they wrote that in to illustrate how much he's willing to do.

For me, I actually just more like pitied Connor for making the decision to involve other people and taking them down with him as if that's going to really solve anything. 'Cause he still did have a choice and it's sad that there are people in this world who do end up in that situation that there's simply no way out from their own pain, their own misery, so they have to end it and leave a bloody mess behind. Like perhaps in his mind, the world's now in chaos after the death of Jasmine, the death of his 'offspring' through Cordy (still more ICKY with him and Cordy than the Jasmine-daughter thing lol) so why not blow a couple of innocent people who make him suffer with envy for having what he could never have. And I think that's one of the reasons why people can't sympathize with his character 'cause he might still have a chance to turn a new leaf, to change... like Faith or like Angel. But the thing about Angel is that he didn't choose to change until he was cursed. He needed to be cursed in order to be made new. I wonder if the writers thought that the way they should write Connor's arc is that it had to be Angel who'll decide for him, if he's got all the power or resources he can get to do that. And being a father, a father who truly loves his son, he'll do anything for his child. A prodigal son who could never find joy, peace, in a world that he never felt like he belonged to 'cause he was raised in hell, I think it only makes sense that as long as Angel lives, he'll find a way to bring his son back into the path he's on. Something that maybe his own father probably tried to do but maybe he just didn't know it 'cause he was rebelling at the time. It's like the tragedy of Connor is just illustrating the tragedy of Liam, in Angel's human life. Angel only became who he is after he died and I like that line Connor said about the only thing that changes everything is death. Anyway, I could go on and on about the deeper concepts here but I thought the way things ended for Connor here, with the interception of Angel, is well executed. Like it totally ties in with the whole W&H offer. I like that he made this decision in exchange for Connor's new life. He loved him so much that he was willing to sacrifice and let go of everything he believes he's risking by making a deal with this law firm. It's like going against his principles and yet if there's one thing that he knows he has to do now and that's save his son. He couldn't afford to lose Connor and I just love how they wrote that in to illustrate how much he's willing to do.