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Buffy The Vampire Slayer S06E17 - Normal Again FULL REACTION (Patreon)

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2018-11-01 16:30:01
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Jarrod Wild

This episode felt very meta. It's the writers and Joss and Marti telling the audience "yeah we're totally aware of what we're doing".

NewStealth

This is ONE of my favourite episodes, for sure, because for me and for my own personal interpretation of this episode, which is that she IS in a mental institution but that she also is the slayer, this episode shines a light on alternate realities and the idea of co-existing, contradicting truths. What if that demon's venom is actually just very supernaturally charged and sends you in to alternate realities? I get that it's uncomfortable, but I also love that the ending scene is what it is. I don't think it's about "is she or isn't she in a mental institution?", I think she IS, AND she isn't, at the same time. But then that's just my own personal weird take on it. Also, I also liked the episode because Joyce was in it.

Hans Olav

I can't really say that it is one of my favorites, but there are a lot of good scenes I think. SMG nails them as always, Wiffy (?) moments are always golden.

Claire Eyles

This episode is disturbing, and difficult to watch, but it's also kind of a brilliant in the way it depicts the depths of Buffy's depression. The fact that she thinks an insane asylum, with her Mum and Dad, and even the smallest glimmer of hope that she's going to be 'well' again, is (even for a short time) a better alternative than her actual life - yeah, that's pretty messed up, and also kinda deep. One of the reasons I love this season so much is because of the way it does depict something like depression, even on a metaphorical level, in the way that it does.

chris bullers

Realised the meaning of the bit where the doctor said 'last summer you had a brief awakening, but your friends pulled you back in'.... was referring to when she died, and was then resurrected. In that case, her 'awakening' was her time spent in heaven.

Amarantax

I actually really like this episode, but is hard to digest. I remember the first time I watch it I get spaced out for a week like WTF just happened.

Jarrod Wild

The doctor told Buffy to remove those delusions from her mind (her friends) to free herself and get better, so she tries to eliminate them, kill them. I'm one of the ones that doesn't believe she was actually in the institution, because even at the end of the episode she was still under the influence of the demon's poison. So I don't see it as an "is she or isn't she" ending. Plus Andrew and the nerds knew what the poison would do, giving them a chance for Buffy to deal with their enemies for them.

homoerotic 80s volleyball scene personified

Shan, the reason she needed to kill them was because she was clinging to them and that's why she couldn't return to the "real" world, and by killing them she would get rid of what was keeping her there.

CaptainNice

I like the part where we get to see Buffy's mom again. Ep 16 & 17... Sigh. Xander loses his mind, they Buffy does that same.

Tammy L. Faulkner

Buffy, Charmed and Smallville have done this type of episode... Don't forget that episode where Clark "Imagines" hes in an institution as well.

Tom Tattershall

It's not my favorite episode, but it's probably in my top 20 or so. I love the concept. It would have been so trippy if this had been a season finale or the series finale. I would have absolutely hated it as a series finale though.

William Nicolas

It's an interesting theory, but I'd like to believe otherwise. I mean, Faith had to be pushed by Willow to go save the girl when in Buffy's body. I think more like it was experiencing Buffy's life, free from her demons, transformed her somewhat, made her realize what she could be. Otherwise she would have fled of her own free will.

Chris Peacock

Easily my 5th LEAST favorite episode, but I don't hate it.

Daveangels

it does destroy some of the magic, especially the scene in the institution after she's back, it suggests it really is a dillusion we are watching and loving

Claire Eyles

In terms of Buffy killing her friends, and if they were figments of her imagination it wouldn't do anything - as others have said that was part of the delusional process of her 'getting better'. When she was in the Psych ward she would have been trying to, and being encouraged to think of them as not real, just part of an elaborate fantasy her mind had created. So even though she was trying to kill them in the actual world, in the alternate reality she would have just been letting go of her 'delusions' by metaphorically killing them off, or letting them go in her mind. I guess sort of like, although not quite to the same extent, but, okay I had an eating disorder for like a really long time (been in recovery/remission for a while now), and it sort of became like a friend to me, almost like a separate entity that helped me out, and made me feel better when I was experiencing bad emotions and stuff, and like I had something, or 'someone' there that would be a support when I needed it. Now obviously I know/knew that the eating disorder wasn't actually a literal separate entity/friend type thing, but it felt that way at times so when I went into full recovery I had to kind of metaphorically let go of that 'friend', that I'd known for like ages, by kind of killing that friend part/aspect off, or letting it die. I don't know, I'm not explaining it very well and getting all ramble-y, but from that point of view I get Buffy trying to kill Willow, Dawn and Xander when she's in that 'I'm just delusional in a psych ward' mode.

Bruce Trogdon

Very good theory but you should keep working on it. You may find that protecting others (starting with her friends and family) is an innate characteristic of Buffy Summers rather than The Slayer. It's an important part of who Buffy is and one of the things that sets her apart from previous (and the 2 later) slayers. The first example is in episode #1 when she realizes there's a vampire in The Bronze. Buffy doesn't want to be the slayer at that point so she isn't particularly concerned until she realizes the vampire is leaving with Willow. Then she's all about helping her new friend. And the final scene may be how Buffy is really feeling at that point since she hasn't taken the antidote yet.

Ryan Wilson
>>16798147

no it doesn't start at the bronze. It starts before that on her first day at sunnydale. Remember when she meets Giles for the first time she said, "she's retired as being the Vampire Slayer" after losing her friends and being kicked out of her old school. But after Cordy mentions the guy dead in the locker, her immediate response was, "how did he die?, were there any marks??" but after cordy​ said she didn't know, Buffy ran off to the scene to check out the body to see if there were any vampire marks on him(which there were).

Amarantax

For me, this is one of those episodes that grow after many watches, and every time you can get something different. more deep, or related to some personal experience. Now I get it as an obstacle or challenge of growing up that is disabling yourself and let someone else take care of you. Buffy has a huge temptation here, she has her mom back and her absentee father present, and more important she can keep being a daughter, a kid who don' t have to make decisions or deal with adults responsibilities, but to do that she has to stop thinking by herself and kill, erase all her inner growth (her slayer life). Is beautiful though that was Joyce the one who gives her the strength to stand up for herself and keep facing live like a slayer.

Jarrod Wild
>>16797088

It's a common TV trope that predates even Buffy, also known as "it was all a dream".

Jarrod Wild
>>16798049

She was still under the influence of the demon's poison through the end of the episode. They're about to make more of the antidote but haven't yet.

HuntingSwan

That's a really good theory about slayers Shan! I too think Faith had that impulse to help that only got messed up cos of her issues. Buffy does always come through though.

Freddy Bowman

Shan, your theory is solid. Buffy has instincts that kick in to fight evil that are innate because of her calling. When you have a calling in life it's almost like you can't help yourself. I mean, you can walk away from a calling but you are miserable if you do. When you operate in your calling many things are instinctual and the end result is positive. That's what I think you are talking about with Buffy. And I agree with you. And, "NO", this is not my favorite episode. Not even top 50 for me.

Freddy Bowman

Another pop culture reference, this time to "Ocean's Eleven." LOL This series is just about the best with that kind of stuff.

Bisibia
>>16796177

Yea I dont really see why people think it's anything but the poison. She hadn't drank the antidote by the end of the episode... so she was still poisoned. Hence the final scene.

Thomas Hansen

Second favorite episode of the season so far.

Chris (darkwater)

I'll give Xander the benefit of the doubt at least that he realizes how badly he screwed up. No one had to explain it to him.

cosmotron

Not really a fan of this episode myself. I think any kind of implication that the events of the show aren't actually happening is cheap. I don't care how carefully they crafted the idea of it in this episode, because it was very clearly not set up by anything before and it just makes me roll my eyes that I'm expected to at all buy it as a possibility. And if it *was* actually meant to be real, I'd be furious. I get a lot of people love it though, and I'm looking forward to seeing what your reaction is.

KiwiJello

Not my favorite. I don't like seeing the Scoobies fights. Hated the ending that suggests that this entire show is the delusion of a schizophrenic girl in an institution. Also, saying goodbye to Joyce made me ugly cry. Fuck Joss again!

Anonymous

This weeks set of Buffyverse episodes are the weakest so far. But your reactions were great as always.

Brandon Wiesner

You're not alone in not liking this ep. There are bitter debates about it, you have the camp that think she's really in an institution and everything that happens in the show is in her mind and then the other side that are like nah, it's just because of the demon and Sunnydale is real. I'm in the latter camp but it's clear that the writers were jonesing to stir the pot.

FernWithy

I'm never sure what to do with this one. It's an interesting concept, and SMG does a good job with it, but it's so drowned in its own melodrama that it just can't seem to get a real breath in there. It feels a lot more like a teen angst episode than anything that happened during the high school years. But there's some glimmer of something in it that always makes me remember it a better than it is when I'm re-watching it.

Ryan Martinez

Your theory is actually grounded. It's called a sleeper soldier. One that is almost hypnotically trained to call on skills it was trained to do but not aware of until a certain word or phrase or anything triggers them. Excellent assessment, however I disagree with it in this case. In all the situations you mentioned it's just the soul of a human being not wanting to see wrong be done no matter how much wrong they have done. Be it in Faith's case her turning the mirror on herself and realizing her own demons or in Buffy's just wanting to do right. Great assessment nonetheless.

Timotey Kuhn

You do always get stuck on Spike during the theme song, don't you? LULZ... :P ;)

igor.kh

I think this episode is better on a rewatch, knowing the ending. At the time when it aired, it was pretty frustrating, because people were still confused about where the show was going, whether The Trio were villains worthy of Buffy, whether the post-death depression story line was a good idea for Buffy. Certainly, the "it was all a dream" ending, if it became canon, would have caused an outrage. But letting all the anxiety about that go, one can watch this episode for how brave Buffy needs to be to make the choice to say No to an incredibly seductive alternative reality where she can have her mom back and be free of the hard responsibilities of being an adult in the world. And SMG nails all the emotional moments in it. So, upon rewatching, I think this episode floats toward the top, even if it doesn't overtake some of the all-time best Buffy episodes.

UTU49

I LOVE this episode because it's scary how much sense the alternate reality makes (the one in the mental institution). I also love how that reality could be very seductive given what Buffy, Willow, and Xander have been through this season. I love having to face the question: "What if NOTHING is really the way we think it is?"

UTU49
>>16817386

I also think it's super creepy how Buffy actually becomes the villain on her own show. I like the idea that you can temporarily decide to believe that the entire show is going on in the mind of a sick girl.

Shashank

I’m in the minority here but I love this episode [it’s in my top 30]. In a past life [my twenties] I worked with psychologically disturbed folks so a lot of this rings true to me in a simplistic way but that’s not why I love it. This episode probably captures Buffy’s dilemma this season more directly than any other. In a way the hallucination is again the choice to reject adulthood/struggle by returning “home” to her ideal mother and father [one that only existed in her childhood if ever]. This whole season has been that choice in multiple forms, just because she became an adult metaphorically at the end of season 5 doesn’t mean the desire to retreat from the difficulties [depression, financial worries, familial responsibilities, mind-numbing job, people with bad intentions toward you, toxic relationships] goes away: they recur all the time, almost every episode so far this season. The fact that her getting better is inversed here is cool: giving into the asylum is the regression which is so great because often people really breaking down feel it’s the best most comforting thing they can do for themselves. I don’t think its coincidental that Willow [her metaphorical spirit] being threatened broke thought the most and distressed her, the idea of a childish security at the loss of her spirit focused/forced her to make the hard choice and choose her spirit and the whole messy life That scene between Joyce and buffy when she tells her to “Believe in herself again, and buffy says thank you and goodbye is so incredible. Sometimes we need to recall that others [especially a parent] believe in us to believe in ourselves again. The last scene doesn’t bother me because she hasn’t taken the antidote yet and also it’s her choice of which reality she commits to that’s important to me both in the literal and metaphorical story. Personally I think this season is the richest in sub text and metaphor while also being the messiest in literal story. We’re finally far enough that I can begin talking about some of what I love. The more times I watch Buffy the more meanings I see, maybe delusionally sometimes :)

raymond julien

A/ I found this episode reflecting us, the viewer; as we sit 'here' watching a fantasy reality because we prefer to be 'there'.

raymond julien

B/Her Mum is still here strength.

UTU49

Hi Willow. How do u get a paragraph break in these comments?

John Boehmer

This episode is either the most important episode in the series or it's a fun little filler episode. Either way, I like it.

Anonymous

I don't like this episode.

Beauty Effulgent

This is one of my least favorite episodes of the entire series. Objectively speaking it's pretty amazing, but personally I can't stand it.

Becky Howell

I’m not a massive Dawn fan but I will stick up for her rn. Firstly, if my big sister (anyone really) came into my room without knocking I’d be annoyed too. Secondly, while yes Dawn knows what she is and why she was made, she also has 15 years of memories of being Buffy’s sister and only a year of knowing that those aren’t real. We can’t expect her to just get on board with that and except it all of the time. The sister that she remembers and has grown up with (real or not) has a ‘better’ world in her head that includes their hole family and not her, that can’t be easy to digest.

Elise Lanciault-Breton

I have to admit that I hated this episode the first time I watched it, and I believe I watched it for the first time in 2003 or 2004 maybe? When it got released on DVD (because I used to watch Tv in French and switched to watching original versions of Buffy when I got a DVD player). Anyway just so you know, for a long time it was one on my least favourite episode because it made me so uncomfortable but lately I started liking it because it’s brilliantly done. Like: what if all of this is just in Buffy’s mind? And when the doctor said she was doing better for a summer until her friends brought her back I was like omg that’s because she was resurrected. Like this is clearly not my favourite episode but still, it is beautifully done!!!

Bisibia

I can't say this is my favorite episode but I love it. I love it because while we know that she isnt actually in an asylum, they still do a really good job of getting you to buy into the fact that it might be anyway. We know at the end she's still hallucinating because she never took the antidote. I think some ppl dont like this because they take the final scene like it might be real, cause that's the last thing we see. But in reality, we know she's still not cured. So if you take that element out, it's just and interesting experiment of examining the ridiculous nature of the show, comparing it to the real world, and doing its best to get the audience to buy into what they're selling... even tho it's an impossible task. To me, that's super impressive. Talking about creating dawn for a familial bond, the villains getting lamer because she doesn't love the world of Sunnydale anymore so it's less epic, and the mention of her awakening during last summer (when she died), are all nice touches to get you to believe what hes saying is true. And they do this without breaking any of the rules the show has set. Also, joyce is back and her advice was ultimately what saved buffy... which is beautiful. I just think its really clever and well written... and acted. Big fan. Honestly, not sure why others dont like it.

Vicky N

This is one of the best episodes of this season for me, and one of the highlight of this show. I like almost everything about it. How it is cleverly written to explore Buffy state of mind at this point, after all she’s been through. I love the meta elements incorporated seamlessly within the plot. And SMG was phenomenal in this.

Shauni Livingstone

There's a moment in another one of joss whedons shows that one of the characters says something about their cousin Buffy being in an asylum. Which obviously made ppl think that maybe all joss's shows are in the same universe and that maybe she was in an asylum all along.

Shauni Livingstone

I actually prefer to believe that both are real......we have seen there are alternate dementions

HelloPatreon

Despite the fact that he clearly has a personal stake in this, and is expressing himself harshly, Spike actually gives Buffy some sound advice. She needs to reveal her relationship to Spike (and by extent the full nature of her inner demons/turmoil) to her friends so that she can move on with her life. She is essentially trapped in state of limbo where she can’t confront her actions/state of mind over the past year. That said, I think the sound advice came by accident as he was clearly lashing out here.

Holi117

this episode still makes me uncomfortable, but i love the spike dialogue in here... talking about how he could have made her happy if she had let him. he goes about saying it at totally the wrong time though. And the whole assylum thing weirds me out so much. that final scene, where buffy isnt there but the scene is still on going... i hate that it leaves us wondering whats the real thing and whats not! The bit from joyce at the end always chokes me up - buffy just needed her mum, needed to hear her mum say those words!

Andrew Pulrang
>>16795587

Yup. I think this is the most workable interpretation. But I also think the writers intend there to be a slight confusion in the end ... a nagging realization that the institution / Mom / Dad world might be the real one after all. On the other hand, the involvement of the Trio I think gives us just enough outside explanation to accept that the alternate world was just a delusion imposed by their monster.

Andrew Pulrang
>>16796197

It's like when you're having a bad dream, sometimes you can bring it to an end by doing things "inside" the dream that bring the story to a close. It's all pretty murky, but it's a sort of dream logic.

Andrew Pulrang

I think that the simplest, most straightforward explanation of all this is that with so much of Buffy's world in turmoil, she needed a sort of "visit" with her mother to bolster her confidence. The Joyce Buffy remembered would have encouraged Buffy to be strong and take control of her life ... so the dream mother she conjured up, (with the artificial "help" of the demon juice), provided her with the encouragement she needed. If dream Joyce had been real, it's just what she'd have said, and it happens to be what Buffy needed to hear. So some of this was by outside design ... the monster ... but it worked out because what's in Buffy's mind is what she needed.

Shauni Livingstone

i chose to believe that both realities are real and are both alternate dimensions and that either with buffys death in season 1 or with the worlds bleeding into each other in s5 the buffy in the asylum world began seeing our buffys life and it sent her crazy getting confused between the 2 and then our buffy sees asylum buffy when shes stabbed by the demon and cant determine which is real, but they both are but in different worlds.

Max Brander

this episode also reminds me of that supernatural episode from season 2 called what is and what should never be ( i know eric kripke was inspired by this episode)

Ron Fehr

Having listened to commentary on dvd, it was explained that this was more like a 'what if' episode. It was definitely food for thought.

Ron Fehr

Hey Shan. I love your theory on vampire slayer. They cannot 'not' help. I understood your explanation. Yes it wasn't a great episode to watch, but it made you think. And it was great to see Joyce again, even if it was in Buffy's dilution.

Richard Lucas
>>16876923

But she did get to say goodbye to her mum in this episode, which she did not get to do in season 5.

Richard Lucas

This episode freaked me out the first time I saw it. If there is a new Buddy show, it would be awesome if it started in an asylum, then goes to Sunnyvale.

Jean Olenick

This episode is not my favorite by any means and I either skip it or don't enjoy it on rewatches, but it raises some very interesting questions and I'm glad they made it. ... Unlike "As You Were" which is just *aggressive eye-roll* and a few others which I just don't like and prefer to ignore.

Eric Haefele

With the exception of "Once More With Feeling", season 6 has been my least favorite Buffy season, so many lame episodes.

Anonymous

I think this one is actually a fascinating mindf*ck... it's always screwed me up. Brilliant stuff.

Anonymous

Maybe the world she is in is real but she tapped into an alternative universe where that version of her is insane.