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Addressing the L+R = J confusion (Patreon)

Published:
2023-05-27 02:31:04
Imported:
2023-05

Content

Hey Patreon Fam,
we've noticed some controversy in our latest L+R = J Reaction so we thought we'd address that.

For those concerned this might have spoiled us or negatively impacted our reactions, we can assure you it did not. Our mods put us through extensive questioning before clearing it and we didnt watch it till after watching 7x2.

Our decision to react on this was based on the following:

a) It was HEAVILY requested upon both on Patreon and YT
b) Most GoT reactors seem to react to this after 6x10 or somewhere similar
c) Our mods asked us how confident we were in our theories at the end of 6x10 - which we predicted Jons parents, and we said 100% confident on our theory, so they cleared it

So can everyone stop giving our mods a hard time. In the end WE, Spartan & Pudgey, have the final say and we made this decision. Whatever your position on it, we dont feel we were spoiled and we are as excited and enthusiastic about continuing GoT as ever!

Look forward to seeing you all on our next reaction, let's get pumped for the final leg of this AMAZING journey!!

Comments

Gam Mac

I just wanna commend the mods for getting S&P past 6x10 without spoilers. I didn't think it was possible but here we are.

Emmanuel Adedeji

Love you guys and your content, at the end of the day it’s done. But I definitely disagree, we want you to experience the show with an authentic experience (we know you also want to, hence the spoiler rules in comments. etc.) - if S&P didn’t watch something like this for any other part of the series (for such a big reveal, regardless of whether they suspected it) then why would they need to do it for this part 😂? Especially when there’s only a few more episodes till confirmation. Appreciate you mods and your hard work, still we’re all allowed to have an opinion (regardless of whether it’s disagreeing) without everyone else getting butthurt - the same way you guys are allowed to think it’s fine. Nobody is infallible, but I definitely think you guys jumped the gun on that one.

Anonymous

these supports are huge... much love to them :) Congrats on the 3000 <3

Anonymous

im amazed that there were actual people complaining

Stannis loves grammar.

Most reactors do piggyback r+l=j after episode 10. It is fun to listen to your take on that particular equation.

Anonymous

I don't get the controversy, you watched the vid after the reveal happened in the show. Am I missing something here?

Ghostcat

Sorry you guys have to deal with these comments over on pateron. Pateron should be a positive and encouraging space. I love that you're getting into the side content, don't let the nay sayers bring the vibe down. Keep going guys!! <3

Anonymous
>>109411586

Maybe because it's not 100% confirmed in the show, but watching the video confirms it.

Anonymous

No need to apologise for anything, R+L=J was so widely speculated and known during the off seasons of the show, everyone was essentially clued in before season 6 even aired.

Anonymous
>>109407546

Yeah, i respectfully disagree with the mods and have to side with you on this one. I was hoping to get their blind reaction to that particular scene confirming the theory. I feel like we are being robbed off that.

Anonymous

The video was just a compilation of moments from GOT that you've already seen. All the video did was remind you of those moments and let you come to your own conclusion.

♆
>>109414196

They watched a second vid that essentially laid out the entire plot lines of seasons 7 and 8.

♆

The videos were UNNECESSARY. Just because you felt the GOT writers extended the reveals too long doesn’t mean it’s up to you all to cut them short. I don’t blame Spartan and Pudgey even if they at the end of the day went for it, it was people who were impatient, who don’t care about reactors giving their most genuine reaction trying to push theories onto them instead of letting them figure it out, which is what we’re actually all paying for. Those videos did 99% of the work we could have watched Spartan and Pudgey do on screen later on in the series. The ideas and theories they brought up in that 2nd video hadn’t even crossed their minds before watching and you can visibly see it in the reaction. That is just a fact. And that’s exactly why you guys wanted them to watch it, so they could be spoonfed information and have their hands held as we wrap up the series. Name another reason why you’d make them watch those videos besides that. Name one benefit besides spoon feeding them information about the final season…. You can’t because that was the entire point of making them watch it, to spoil the ending without technically spoiling the ending, which is what you all did to yourselves when watching and now force every reaction channel to do the same. This fandom SUCKS!

fritz

One of the points reaction channels never consider is that I suspect people wanting reactors watching those videos are most likely not interested in watching season 7 and 8. They want their climax after season 6 and most likely won't return for the later seasons. Almost everyone considers season 7 and 8 not on par with the earlier seasons. Spoiling remaining facts or even what was ambiguous makes it even less desireable to watch reactions on them. So from the point of a reaction channel watching those videos is a dumb decision. You basically trading one video for one audience against 2 seasons for others. Maybe you should have at least made a poll, since people demanding those videos are probably more vocal about it than people that don't. Yes, you said they were convinced about their theories. Where they sure what kind of relationship R + L had? Where they sure what place in the succession Jon has for the throne? Did their opinion change on that? Is there more information coming? Yes. In my opinion some aspects were definitly spoiled.

Cam
>>109415101

Can you stop accusing everyone in every comment of some devious plan to spoil? Nobody wanted to “get away” with anything. The mods aren’t scheming behind closed doors to try to spoil things in a cheeky way for S&P. No one is deleting your comments. You can disagree, as you have, but stop making these ridiculous accusations as if some conspiracy is going on.

Anonymous
>>109416713

Seasons 7 and 8 are fantastic. Yes, I wish there were 10 episodes per season. But I actually find them the most rewatchable. I'm very excited for S&P to continue.

Munir

I'm still trying to figure out A²+B²=C². I hope none of this is on the final.

Anonymous

Not sure what's going on, sounds like the Mods caked it 😂

Stannis the Mannis
>>109416713

Fantastic? Please take the rose tinted goggles off. Does bronn have one line that isn’t about cocks?

Anonymous
>>109414196

Yeah I'm not sure what second video you're referring to. I only saw the one where it took moments from stuff they've already watched.

Anonymous
>>109416713

To be fair Bronns existence was just a show thing because of how fans reacted to him. So he’s essentially an entirely made up character for the entirety of the show.

Julien
>>109418725

This person must be new here. To accuse the mods, THESE MODS, of wanting to spoonfeed and spoil SnP... I don't even what to say to that. They must be new, it's the only thing that makes sense.

Malorie

That’s so funny that you posted this because I had similar thought at first and then also thought “well they’ve probably seen more eps than they’ve released so I’m sure they’re in the clear”

Anonymous

You guys are super entertaining to watch...I'm a huge World of Ice and nerd as anyone else but its ridiculous how upset people get about things especially when they have no idea what the behind the scene situation is in reality. Keep up the good work!

JBlaze24

Why are they watching separate theory videos trying to figure out everything before it happens in show? That is opposite of blind reaction. I didn't see the pole but don't know why people would have voted for that.

Katie Thomas

Everyone on here complaining about these videos being spoilers are literally spoiling these reactions just by commenting. Spartan and Pudgey don’t know it’s a spoiler; just a theory. Getting up in arms and saying “___ is revealed at ___ time, so watching this now ruins the reveal” is literally handing them the information you were concerned about them knowing on a silver platter. Y’all are spoiling it for yourselves. If you don’t think they should have watched it, fine, you are allowed that opinion. But think before you type Jfc.

AG
>>109435419

Seriously, this is the most asinine controversy i’ve ever witnessed on Patreon.

SuddenImpulse
>>109415101

" The ideas and theories they brought up at the end of that 2nd video hadn’t even crossed their minds before watching and you can visibly see it in the reaction. That is just a fact. " It is not a fact. You are not privy to numerous in-depth convos we had with them. We also have never deleted any comments disagreeing with us. We have never deleted a comment from you. You of course have your right to state your opinion that this should not have been done and why. However it is another thing entirely if you keep inserting and spreading falsities we have already clarified to you specifically, and purposefully trying to make people think things we have made clear are not true. If this continues, there is going to be a problem.

Stannis the Mannis
>>109416713

Not at the same level of involvement though so it is a fine point. Just speaking to the flanderization of almost every character post S4.

SuddenImpulse
>>109427728

"Why are they watching separate theory videos trying to figure out everything before it happens in show?" Did you read the explanation post?

Mzuka
>>109435419

Dude with the trident name tag is a bigger spoiler than any YouTube video

Anonymous

Well i think its all fine, he was allways raised by Ned and is allways a Stark anyway? :) Guys this was like pretty clear the moment as they cut to Jons face.

MattyK

god damn yall let em enjoy the show their way. if that includes theorizing, or hearing theories, who gives a shit

Anonymous

Whatever, do what you like, we all watched plenty of theory vids between seasons anyway.

Supreme Leader

What’s done is done. The main issue at hand is that a small group of mods have direct line of communication to S&P and are able to make suggestions that weigh more than the average patron by nature. Being in this exclusive group also makes them more friendly towards one another so it’s easier to agree unanimously on one thing. This group makes up less than 1% of people and are supposed to “represent” 3,000 patrons. Their ONLY job should be to mitigate spoilers and nothing more. Mods should take into account the videos that people want to see and create a poll that will leave the final decision to the majority of patrons. Especially on videos ride the line between being/not being a spoiler.

Cyan

The theory video didn't spoil anything. Sure, it made them more aware of certain ~possibilities~ but a possibility is not a confirmation. Some of you are only mad in hindsight because you already know some of those "possibilities" are closer to reality. But the person who made the video didn't know that for sure and neither do S&P.

Julien
>>109447108

Lol you don't get decide what mods "ONLY job" should be. This is SnP's channel and they will run it and empower the mods as they please. That 1% comment is so strange. Mods never claimed to represent anyone. They are just people that SnP trust and you literally have no idea how this came to be or how long they've known one another. I think some of you are under the bizarre notion that this place is some kind of democracy that should run by consensus 😂. Your voices are heard and taken into account but in the end, it's literally two people who decide what happens here. They decided to watch the video based on the information they had access to (which includes both sides). In the end, they decided to watch it. That, was their informed decision. It's unfortunate that you don't like it, but it's done and you should probably move on.

Rey Jr
>>109447108

They can do whatever they want. Still I think a poll would have been the best option

Rey Jr
>>109447982

Of course they know that it is true. Why would the mods suggest them to watch the video if it was wrong

Cyan
>>109447982

They know the major fact of L+R=J already before seeing the video. The smaller details surrounding that were just theories, the guy in the video even discussed theories that didn't end up being true.

Julien
>>109442502

Thankfully the mods have a system to shield them from spoilers

Julien
>>109449353

Sure why not. A poll wouldn't have hurt. But I did not think this a big enough decision to warrant a poll, and never ever EVER in my wildest dreams would have have thought that this stupid thing would elicit so HUGE a controversy. This is crazy. I've been watching GOT reactions since they have been a thing and I've never seen anything like this. Every reactor watched R+L=J after season 6. Everyone. For years and years. Without controversy. Clearly something has changed recently and the religious fanaticism against it (or the other vid) is weird af.

TallTyrionLannister
>>109427728

They literally figured it out while watching 6x10. That’s supposed to be the big reveal for people that pay attention. I’m guessing you didn’t figure it out then? Lol

Supreme Leader
>>109447108

They didn't magically have access to this video, they were spoonfed by the mods.Yes S&P has the final say but their decision is heavily biased on their private convos with a select few. Imagine paying 12/mo for blind reactions when only 8 people get to decide what's spoiler or not. The fact that you didn't anticipate this level of backlash just proves my point that many don't agree on this decision and that a poll is necessary. When people are paying their hard earned money for content, they have a say on what to recommend S&P, not just mods. You need to understand that people pay money to S&P only. We don't pay money to gatekeepers that won't allow patrons to vote on a poll. Clearly you haven't watched every single reaction to this show because there are some that watched it after season 7. Some even waited until the show ended to watch supplemental videos such as this.

Anonymous
>>109447982

Theorizing and knowing are two completely different things. Anyone who thought of R + L = J at the time were more likely informed by a friend or by video. It was not as common knowledge as people are making it out. Why confirm shit, It just ruins future discussions. It’s not complaining, it’s just pointless videos considering the show touches these subjects, unlike the GOT History and Lore which goes mostly untouched in the show.

ken
>>109416713

7 is really good. 8 has like 2 good episodes

Anonymous

Alls I know is if you decide to watch Star Wars and people convince you to watch the Machete order it would be great if you identify that in the intro of the first video and title…

SuddenImpulse
>>109447108

@Supreme Leader It must be really tiring coming up with all these conspiracy theories, assumptions, and projections, in multiple different posts about our mod group, the vast majority of whom you have never interacted with. It's really not necessary to make your core points. As an aside, you put a lot of focus on Patreons in a way that seem to suggest you want them and them alone to have full dictation of how things are done. I want to clarify that we try to keep in mind what everyone wants, not just Patreons (and that certainly is the norm across reaction channels). Obviously we value our Patreons a great deal but there's 50 thousand people supporting the creators on youtube as well, and without their success on youtube they would not have even started a Patreon. We try to provide various extra benefits to Patreons because of the extra support they are providing, and brainstorm more potential benefits to add on for Patreons in the future regularly, but we also don't want to create a situation where the youtube community feels like extremely second class citizens whose thoughts and opinions are just ignored either.

SuddenImpulse
>>109447108

@Rey Jr We will likely be doing polls for these in the future. I hope that helps couch your concerns on this. I am more than happy to have a longer discussion with you if you have any other concerns, suggestions, or ideas on how we can improve things going forward. Feel free to DM me on our community discord any time, and we can chat as long as you'd like. We want the community to be happy, and we want to be receptive and responsive to what people in this community want, expect, etc.

Jenny Tolls
>>109447982

@Aaron episode 6x10 basically confirms the real parents of Jon. S&P watching that video does't change anything lol

SuddenImpulse
>>109457168

As a big Star Wars fan I know how controversial and debated the watch order is. I do believe they plan to do Star Wars at some point, not sure when. We will probably do a poll on both platforms regarding what people prefer. Personally, I am of the mind it should be done in the way the creator of Star Wars, George Lucas suggests (which is chronological), but I have seem valid arguments for different orders.

Christopher
>>109457168

I genuinely hope they watch either chronological or theatrical and that I never hear the word machete from their mouths

Supreme Leader
>>109447108

The Patrons are what support this channel and is their main revenue source. They were able to quit their main job because of patreon. Of course they started in YouTube and we should consider the viewer base BUT as S&P CLEARLY states on all tiers : “patrons have access to polls that will determine what we watch next”. That is what people pay for to directly support the creators. With that comes benefits as listed by S&P. IMO the small group of mods are preventing those polls from being created because it seems like only their recommendations are being considered. There’s no grand conspiracy on the mods, people base their assumptions on the actions. Based on your actions one can assume that you hold too much voting power compared to the rest of the 3,000 patrons.

Shellbot
>>109447108

If you want a direct line of communication with S&P join the discord. That's what I did and how I ended up a mod. Join there and you have the exact same communication with them. They watched the video because so many comments for nearly the entire season six asked for it. I personally couldn't care less if they decided to watch it or not. As mods we have the power to watch videos to be sure it's spoiler free and delete spoilers in discord/YouTube. We can also chat with people and S&P. That's it. There is no magical conspiracy of mods forcing them to do what we want and only what we want. Most of the time they ask us if something has a spoiler because so many comments suggested watching and they wanna be certain it doesn't ruin anything. It's so weird that people think we are whispering in their ear to make sure we get "our" way lol we just want blind reactions the same as everyone.

Supreme Leader
>>109447108

People don’t need to interact with the creators or other subscribers. The minimum expectation is to receive the benefits listed on each tier. It’s where all users interact with content being produced by S&P. Clearly the majority of people do not use the the discord chat. It’s there if you want to use it. The issue lies in what’s not being delivered on their end (polls) which is being hindered by mods making their own suggestions. No one in this thread is saying that there’s a grand conspiracy of ya’ll forcing them to do what you want. It’s very obvious that S&P values your opinions/recommendations more than the average patron solely because of your position as a moderator. Theres a reason polls exist, it’s there so people can vote on the platform that everyones is actively visiting. It’s where everyone’s vote is also counted as equal.

Anonymous

when will it be unlocked for Super Soldiers? thankyou

ken
>>109447982

HBO literally told everyone who jobs parents are 2 days later. The viewers are supposed to know who the parents are

ken
>>109447108

First of all the point of main point of polls is to vote on shows they watch. Never did they say that any and every piece of content they consider watching will have a poll. Secondly, you’re out of your mind if you think the poll result would’ve changed anything. It’s the most requested video for every Game of thrones reactor and has been heavily requested here. Finally, they watched it because they wanted to and they can do whatever the fuck they want, they don’t need to ask your permission they don’t work for you. If you don’t like it leave instead of bitching and crying like toddler who didn’t get what he wanted

Anonymous
>>109457168

I legit watched a channel go episode 4,5,2,3,6 and skip 1 entirely. And got crushed in the YouTube comments and his video got 25% of the views all because some people convinced him the machete order was anything but garbage and that jar jar and episode one has “no relevant” information for the overall story 😂 it definitely sucked and was confusing to see empire reaction and the next video was clone wars… and people went nuts.

Mzuka
>>109447982

@Supreme Leader, ironically you’ve made the opposite. “Show don’t tell” is writing advice that means don’t tell your audience, SHOW it to them. That is exactly what was done in 6x10 when they SHOWED us who Jon’s parents were through visual language and context clues. You’re advocating that S&P wait till it is explicitly said in the show which would be TELLING. 🤦🏿‍♂️

spartanandpudgey
>>109447108

We just want to be clear that the tier says there will be polls, however we will decide on which of those suggestions we actually react to that month. We put a suggestion post at the start of this month (despite it not being in a poll format) it still served the same purpose.

Mzuka
>>109447108

Classic case of a vocal minority here. Been in the top tier for a little while, and R+L = J is always commented on the video idea posts and gets the most upvotes. The people complaining seem to be under the delusion that the majority of Patrons wouldn’t want this shown, possibly because we’ve been talking about how this is an absurdly big blowout? For a reality check, you’re really not a majority. I’m seeing the same names commenting all over the place and harassing the mods. The R+L=J video has as many likes as GoT episodes, and most of the comments are engaging with the video. The rest are a split between people complaining about the video, and people complaining about the complainers. Most people just enjoyed the content and moved on. You’re not championing some populist rebellion against the mods, you’re just souring the experience for a lot of people. Fair enough if you don’t like the decision, the mods have clearly and calmly heard you out and it’s already DONE. They’ve watched it. Move on. All of this is distracting from a much more serious issue, which is that S&P keep posting it as “L+R=J” instead of “R+L=J”. Really wish we could stop making a big deal out of something so trivial and address this before I lose it.

Julien
>>109475948

Exactly. A poll would have yielded exactly the same result. You can go to any of the 610 reactions and see a dozen requests and hundreds of likes for R+L=J. Those numbers will explode when the episode airs on YT. Pudgey said people have been requesting this video since the beginning. This guy is couching his weird bitterness in lofty democratic ideals (that are out of place here) and frankly, enjoying the attention from mods and the creators. It's all bullshit.

neutchain
>>109457168

I feel like if you watch them in the original release order the end of Episode V hits really hard, if you watch them in chronological order you only lose moments like that. The "birth" of Vader is tragic ofc but it hits much harder if you've seen 4-6 already.

Gam Mac
>>109415101

This comment which (I didn't read past a couple sentences) is UNNECESSARY 🤣🤣 This is S&P's channel. Nobody gaf what YOU WANT looooool

jxm82
>>109457168

I will die on the hill that release order is the only order for first time viewers.

Supreme Leader
>>109447108

Is it really that hard to understand that the point of contention is WHEN this video is watched. No one is saying that they shouldn’t watch this video. A poll started in the beginning/end of season 7 will have vastly differing results OBVIOUSLY. I’m sure you all enjoy the attention you get from the creators as well when you interact with them daily as moderators.

Jamie Maclean
>>109447108

Mods don’t have a pure monopoly over every video getting watch, from the very start since hotd, just made sure there was no future spoilers in GOT reactions, lore videos, and comments. R+L is a lore video with no spoilers except clarifying old scenes and eps, so it’s fine by s+p own rules. If you are still unhappy please apply to be a mod on discord, and I’m sure they can decide if you are being a really helpful community member. Otherwise stop, it’s not your channel, therefore it’s not your rules. Throwing shade at the mods for doing what they are supposed to, just makes it seems like your jealous or something, which I’m sure you ain’t but that is def how it’s coming across.

Anonymous

Where is the reaction I wanna see it D:

Christopher
>>109457168

You wouldn’t be talking about logical movie reviews with Mrlboyd would you?

Anonymous

I love you guys. Enjoying the journey so far and definitely excited and also disappointed that this is coming to an end :-(

Jackson Natoli

Hey guys just wondering will the L+R=J reaction be an additional video to your usual schedule or will it be incorporated into the normal schedule ?

Gam Mac
>>109447108

@Supreme Leader ffs noone cares what YOU want. S&P has 3k patreons and it's only the same 3 names I see whining about R+L=J! We're here for S&P however way they want to react to GOT, go start your own patreon if u want something done YOUR specific way LMAO

Anonymous

Haven't seen it yet, will it be available eventually? Or do I need to fork out another 4.50 lol

Anonymous
>>109435419

Umm the videos they watched literally confirmed it, that was what people took issue with.

SuddenImpulse
>>109457168

@Scuba Steve I can assure you that no matter what they do, whenever this eventually happens, they will not be skipping an entire movie. If there is a poll for this it would be either chronological or release, not any of these controversial, funky mishmash orders that people have come up with.

Saibal Sarkar

Theon has severe PTSD from being tortured for so long. Of course that scene was triggering for him. Yes he was killing people before in that fight scene, but his uncle putting a knife to Yara's throat, it probably reminded him of Ramsay playing games sick games with him, and then you see Theon looking around, all those men cutting off tongues and whatnot, Can you imagine being in his situation? The things Ramsay did to him, are beyond horrible. He was tortured man, of course he had flashbacks. I don't understand how people are upset about him jumping off. It's heartbreaking. How can people not realize the amount of courage and motivation it must have taken for him to become the person he was again? It's not like once he's decided he'll fight, he won't ever have problems again. The amount of physical and mental torture he went through, I think it's epic that he's still alive and is actively willing to even fight is more than enough.

Tiffany

Excited to see it!!

Katie Thomas
>>109435419

These were both made before the end of season 6 reveal so it’s not possible to confirm what they didn’t even know when making it.

Anonymous

I think pudgy missed the part were Robert didnt know because he'd kill any Targaryens

Maggie Jordan

It obviously doesn't matter at this point, but I still think the second video was unnecessary. Yes, Jon's parents were confirmed. Nobody is arguing that they weren't. The other details didn't even need to be mentioned. Like I said, it doesn't make a difference, but it would've been cool to see a genuine reaction when the time comes.

SuddenImpulse
>>109619086

"Nobody is arguing that they weren't." There are quite a lot of people arguing that, actually lol

Anonymous

OMG people an awful lot of drama over a couple of theory videos that they had basically already sussed out as the scene where the face changed to Johns, I watched hundreds of theory videos and sussed it out earlier when the show was originally shown I bet I wasn’t the only one, Karen Alert 🤣🤣