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I sent this letter to Patreon support.

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I am writing to object to your new fee structure.

As far as I can tell, the motivation behind the new fee structure comes from the desire to charge Patrons immediately when they subscribe. This leads to individual, anniversary-based chargers instead of collective, lump-sum charges at the end of the month. And this leads to increased transaction fees, which has led to the new fee structure.

I can only speak for myself when I say that this all seems completely backwards. The soul of Patreon is the people who pledge small amounts. Why would a Patron who pledges $1 to five different Creators want to be charged $1.38 instead, five different times a month, rather than having a single charge show up at the end of the month? It seems like lump-charging Patrons would also solve your transaction fee problems since surely it is cheaper to process fewer, larger transactions. I don't know... maybe not.

I have never understood the motivation to charge Patrons immediately. As a Creator, I don't get paid any faster, because I only pay out at the end of the month anyway. The motivation can't be to capture the very first payment, because a Patron who subs and then un-subs 2 weeks later... well, who cares about the $2 you lost from him by not charging him immediately anyway. 

The argument about consistency falls flat too. Every month, my pledged amount changes. Guaranteeing a consistent 95% doesn't help when it's 95% of an inconsistent amount. Anyway, I'm running a business here. I am more than capable of dealing with a cash-flow variance of +/-10% for goodness sake.

Frankly, I am suspicious that this whole thing is really to benefit Patreon, not Creators. It seems like Patreon is the one who will benefit most by charging Patrons immediately. I can't figure out exactly what the angle is for you, but I can't really see much of an angle at all for Creators or Patrons, so I have to assume you're acting in your own interests. Or maybe you just don't realize how messed up this seems from the other side.

Comments

thedroneracingengineer

This infographic breaks down the effect very clearly. <a href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQd24IAWsAAFQFG.jpg:large" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQd24IAWsAAFQFG.jpg:large</a> I can't help but notice that at the smaller pledge levels, the percent going to Patreon + Fees is much larger. The Creator always gets 95% of the pledge amount, but Patreon ends up getting a much larger cut of Pledge + Fees. So ultimately Patreon takes in more money. Which... it spends on fees? That's what you're supposed to assume anyway.

Anonymous

Perhaps I can toss you money through PayPal monthly?

Anonymous

Thanks for staying on top of this. A lot of smaller creators are going to get dried up in this. 95% of nothing is nothing.

Anonymous

Yah, they charge 2.9% transaction fees, but my guess is that they're processing enough transactions to have negotiated a much lower rate with payment gateways, so they're making money 3 ways. 1) the $0.35 fee, 2) the 5%, and 3) the diff between the transaction fee charged vs. what they pay on the back end.

Anonymous

Do I smell an opportunity for someone to create a cheaper Patreon competitor?

Anonymous

I also like that they seem to have left it to creators to notify patrons...

Anonymous

This is frustrating to see as I remember when Jack Conte started Patreon. :( He and his wife use it for their solo projects + Pomplamoose. I hope they fix this. :(

Anonymous

Keep us updated with their response!

Anonymous

Well said!

Anonymous

I pay multiple creator a dollar each. The 35 cents per video are killing me. It effectively charges me 37.9% worth of fees. I'm going to give them a little time to fix this or for a competitor to come up. I would rather manually setup some sort of bill pay to creators before ever spending a 37% banking fee.

Anonymous

OMG, Patreon just warned me about the excessive fees that a lack of net neutrality will cost me. Its unrelated to their new pricing but still amped up my anger about excessive fees.

Anonymous

We'll likely all follow you if you migrate to another platform, if there is one...

Anonymous

Yeah, I want to give money to you not Patreon. Appreciate they are a business but the 5% plus fee and processing charge seems excessive given the market they cater for. Don't know how it works in the US, but in the UK as I'm paying for a "service", I pay 20% tax on my donation. I was surprised by this when I first set up the account to donate $5 a month and got charged $6 with the tax. I can "donate or gift" money without paying tax in it, but I'm buying Patreons service to give you the money. With the new fees I pay the 20% tax on the full amount which will include the $0.35 and the 2.9% processung fee will probably be charged on the gross amount. So to gift $5 to Joshua, I get charged $6.61 (Comes to $6.606 so I guess the round up!) yet he'll only get $4.75 of that. The extra $0.61 isn't really an issue (Which is I guess what Patreon are banking on) but it bugs me there's nearly a $2 difference between what I give and what Joshua actually gets. Particularly as legally I can gift money without paying tax on it.

Anonymous

Pre-rant: I am a dev, anyone who wants to collab in connecting Patreon API to PayPal subscription and bypass Patreon keeping the service them reach out. --- OK GO&gt;&gt;&gt; I am on the warpath against Patreon for this one. I will tldr; some key info (day job is software/gateway processing/e-commerce). First: Are they not bulk processing? We need that answered, if they do the ~38cent goes away -- if they are not then come here for a bitch slap, if they are..I have a hole I would like to push you into. Next: They screwed up, I know b/c we handled this in one of our businesses - sub $2 freestanding charges cost almost $0.50 for us, we adjusted payouts for small purchases to not pass the fee on to anyone like Patreon did. Next: This is an anti-creator move by making the supporters foot the bill of their mistake. Sure they stick to the claim of paying creators the max at the expense of a lot of user exit. There are a few more analysis on this and none are good. Did they discuss this w/creators? Did they think this was just gonna be okie-dokie?

Anonymous

I'll tell you what this does for me, of the 5 people I support on here, I'll be cutting my pledges down or dropping some all together. In the end they will be screwing the creators... Not cool Patreon!

Anonymous

So anyone know or have an idea what Patreon pays for it's banking services? Would be interesting to see what a forensic accountant would make of it all.

thedroneracingengineer

I really do like Patreon, especially the community it lets us have. It's working well for me and I don't intend to leave just because of this. I hope they see the error and correct it. Fingers crossed.

Anonymous

My mother told me "no free lunch"

Anonymous

Patreon said " Give me your milk money kid!"

Anonymous

Great email. Concise and to the point.

Anonymous

I'm sorry, but I am done w/ giving Patreon money. This whole idea that they can charge us more because they think they entitled to it. We contributors are doing creators a favor so they can continue to create, not because we getting a service.

thedroneracingengineer

The service that they're providing is connecting you with me. The service that I'm providing is entertaining and educating you. Without Patreon, I guarantee I wouldn't be where I am. I'm not trying to justify their decision though. I disagree with the new charge structure.

Anonymous

Totally agree John. i'm in the UK too and had exactly the same feeling when I became a patron of JB. Why not just 'donate' money direct to a JB account? not sure how the tax law works in the States, guess JB would have to pay tax on that at the end of the year? which would be more work/ accountant fees for JB to deal with adding to his already heavy work load?

Anonymous

I’ve deleted there email now that basically said they were going to increase the fee/ handling fee/ up there rate… want ever!! It’s not up for discussion, so Thanks for letting me know you WILL be taking more money from me for yourself and not the creator. Colour me hooked in and now a cash cow! Appreciate your response JB, but I doubt it will make a difference. Bit like a bank saying we are increasing our charges for your account because?…well… we need more, cause the corporation wants more…suck it up, or move on, we care not! We use patrEon as a payment conduit funnel to JB and others, am I right to say that? They want more cents to the dollar… which is bullshit. They preform NO service for me apart from a glorified bacs transfer! I’m quite capable of setting up a direct debit / standing order to another person’s bank account thanks! Is there not another way to pledge money to creators? I’d like to know what business benefit, apart from money into JB account patrEon gives to JB, I guess its this message board? There must be a better way to get my whole $5 right into JB’s account. Cutting the patrEon out of the system? Or am I talking horesshit!

Anonymous

Have you considered setting up a paypal subscription instead? I think Paypal takes less of a cut than Patreon does now. I'd be happy to move over to that model.