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The Expanse Ep 2x8 Full Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-05-03 21:13:19
Edited:
2023-05-08 22:23:33
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Dawes is more dangerous than anyone anticipated. Sync up and find out how!

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Comments

Grumples

I really love the back and forth you two have with your differing opinions! Really shows events aren't always so black and white.

Nerd Going Outside

Don't take this as a criticism, but I was surprised how much energy was spent justifying the arbitrary murder of innocent individuals on the grounds of a legitimate beef with the current government of their place of birth.

stuart greenley

NERDY!!!! great connection, have you ever been punched in the face....... when it happens see how you feel!!! There is something about it! Bonus material Nerdy's Revenge story! I will kill for what I believe in - I believe you should go to two episodes a week! 🤣 Diogo is an OPA member and was a soldier, I don't think he was privy to knowledge of Kotazar. Just like a foot soldier doesn't have all the knowledge of a three-star general. My take was that the factions of Belters acted on their own, not for Dawes or Johnson, but who am I....

Thomas Menard

You guys should watch foundation on apple tv. I bet you guys would love that show.

Thomas Menard

I also don’t think many people have reactions to it and there is a second season coming out soon.

Quark's Bar

Both opinions are correct. The bad guys this ep were a radical group of killers, with a bad plan, that would end up getting a lot of belters killed, achieving nothing for the belt. They did it because, in their minds, due to real life experience, the current pressure cooker situation, and whatever revolution-propaganda they've been fed, they felt they had no other choice.

Bluestar

Its fun watching Clarus being just so done with Nerdy this season. He's like crimes against humanity are a fine and reasonable response to generational abuse and oppression, and she's like I dunno fam, spacing refugees doesn't seems like a good thing.

Hollie Jones

The discussions after the last 2 episodes have been so frustrating. Nerdy is wrong and keeps talking over Clarus who is right. Fortunately this discussion will not come up again for a long time. Nerdy is setting himself up to be a Marco fanboy. I love your reactions just don't agree with Nerdy on this topic. Drummer is a badass!

Joe
>>107777613

Understanding where something comes from is not the same as thinking its fine. Nerdy said multiple times it wasnt okay. He was also entirely correct in pointing out that Clarus is trying to logic through an intensely emotional response. As Naomi said in the previous episode (paraphrased) "lose half your people and then you'll see"

Deana DeWall

Since they didn't mention the goddess of the episode, I vote Drummer! lol

Dan Pettit

Take care of yourselves guys. Get over that crud!

Samuel Eng

Ive seen this show before.... ngl this epi still made me tear up.

Amber A

I think Nerdy's thinking of a song off "Come From Away"...can't remember the name of it, but I recognize those lyrics from that play. I think anyone can agree what was done on the freighter was objectively wrong. Those 'inners' were regular people, no direct control over their governments. This is the base conflict with what's often considered 'terrorism'. Oppressive power marginalizes and subjugates a group, and the longer and more severe that gets, the higher the odds there will be some in that oppressed group that will fight back and use violence. Often, they don't have the ability to harm the people in power. Over enough time, especially generations, they can view the oppressive power's populace as complicit because they're not rising up against the human rights violations against them. That can have some truth to it, even if that responsibility isn't very fairly directed. And when the oppressed strike out in self defence, it gets considered terrorism, because it's easier to categorically dismiss. Yes, sometimes there is a group intending to cause mass terror. Other times, that's not even a consideration, such as this instance. So it's wrong, objectively wrong. But it's definitely a form of respectability politics to say those oppressed who turned to violence can't be trusted. Blanket dismissing them will limit the voices and perspectives of the marginalized, not all violence is the same and carries the same intent (the belters are allowed to have bad people in their population, even bad political sects, when the official UN and Mars governments are both monstrous and morally corrupt, it wouldn't be right to hold the belt to a higher standard than those with power over them), whereas those in power can't be dismissed similarly despite their violence being inflicted on the micro and macro levels. People who engage in self defence still deserve a voice, even if they end up hurting those who aren't directly responsible for their plight. Belters have to fight for air and food and water. it makes a very twisted sort of sense to, after the UN and Mars destroyed Ganymede and their food supply, ensure as many resources as possible go to belters, by any means. Which in this case means spacing the inners on board, because they take up more resources than belters naturally, and the more resources they can spare for belters, the better they can prevent their own deaths. it's not a righteous action, it's not good, but it's a decision I can manage to understand in its base practicality. I didn't get the sense that prejudice led the decision to space the inners on the freighter; the dialogue was "Inners wreck Ganymede. Belter life first from now on." There wasn't glee when he said it, there wasn't outright anger. Just a firm, determined statement of fact. Belters need air, food, and water. They would have more with the Inners off the ship. They can't rely on the belief that the UN/Mars won't keep destroying their homes (or the stations they work in, like Tycho), so they need to keep their resources for themselves, because the UN/Mars won't help them and might keep destroying their ability to survive over their petty squabbles and egos. I fully believe there's existing passive disdain for 'Inners' that may have helped get them to where they feel more comfortable doing what they did, but I doubt it was the driving force. Families in the belt have to let some of their family members due so the rest of them can survive, simply because there aren't enough resources. In that context, with their homes and food supply (and water supply, if you count the Canterbury destruction) being destroyed, and resources being more valuable than gold, they would be able to come to some reasoning to conserve the resources for themselves. One solution to all this, at least through some semblance of justice system, would (at least something along the lines of) be to remove from power the UN and Mars governments en masse and try them for their crimes against humanity, remove and try the Corps leadership helming the stations in the belt, the security forces on those stations, the military, etc. and provide reparations and official rights to the belters, seizing property and wealth of all who gained from the oppression and dispersing it among the population of the belt evenly, and give the belters full control of the stations in the belt in some manner of elected democracy or collectivist government. Of course, Mars and the UN would never agree to that, even if it would be justified, and asking the belters to compromise on justice and reparations would be ethically and morally wrong. They need freedom, yes, but they also need to not be placed at the starting line of a 10000m race that started 40 minutes ago, that's not equitable. Belters wanting a 'seat at the table' would mean something different to each side. The UN and Mars would likely, if absolutely pushed, be good with each having a third share, because they could always vote the belt down. That wouldn't make political sense for belters, hence why the belt considers UN and Mars inners...it's a two-sided system for them because Mars and the UN each treat them horribly, so even if Mars and UN hate each other, they're unified when it comes to the belt. So politics is out. Betting on the goodwill of the average citizens is out, because nothing happened over the generations to help the Belt get out from under the UN and Mars. Nerdy is right that the belters don't have any good options left. They don't have any good options left *because* the UN and Mars reject any potential good options because they have the power and are unwilling to yield it. The staff on the freighter did kill all those regular people, but that evil act was rooted in the UN and Mars's ongoing effective genocide, they lovingly coaxed those conditions out of the aether with their oppression of the belters and destruction of their food supply, and it was all entirely preventable.

Bluestar
>>107777613

I agree. But he also wasn't condemning the action either, you can know something is wrong and still be okay with it given the circumstances. I'm a be honest, the way Nerdy was talking about everything genuinely gave me the impression that he implicitly agreed with their actions, even as he was horrified. He is very clearly on the side of "The oppression of the belt justifies any actions the belters take, regardless of its merit or morality. Because at this point what do you expect people to do." It's fine to understand why the people of the belt feel like they have no other options at this point. But these people were helpless refugees and his attitude this episode just gave me that impression.

Daxeah
>>107787858

When I fist looked at this, I was like damn, they wrote a book! But I can't help but agree with you on all fronts. Thank you for putting the right words to how I feel about the situation.

PKS
>>107787858

@Daxeah, can you share 10% of your patience with me please.

Xavier
>>107774848

Sorry but Foundation is garbage. Not only a terrible adaptation (unlike The Expanse) but also a nonsensical and boring execution. Curiously, the only interesting part of the show is the Clone Dynasty plot which is completely made up for the tv show. They should have made their own IP instead.

Daxeah
>>107787858

I don't know if you want it... it comes with annoying side effects but on the flip side I hyperfocuse like a boss. (ADHD for the win)

Bryce Carlson

Do you remember when Bobbie's team was first on patrol she saw somebody waving at them from the agricultural dome? That was Mei Meng.

Bryce Carlson

A person can be smart. People are dumb, panicky animals that will expect the worst. And that is particularly true in the Belt. After all, Anderson Dawes expects the worst of Fred Johnson. And if I say more, I will be accused of spoiling.

Bryce Carlson

The "problem," is that Earthers, Martians, and Belters each see both of the others as "sub-human" and that they are therefore justified to treat the others in any way that they choose with no moral compunctions.

Bryce Carlson

Once Wes Chatham was told Amos Burton's backstory, he went ahead and researched that background so he could do the character justice.

Armani

whenever the next voting poll is , I still think you guys should react THE BOYS by Amazon prime

Zyrus
>>107774234

Less justifying, and more understanding their motive. Understanding a motive is not the same as condoning an action. Detectives learn why murderers murder all the time, that doesn't mean they think murder is ok.

Zyrus

"Fred has influence in the belt because of Dawes" This is factually not true. If it was true, Drummer would not have remained loyal when the scientist was kidnapped or during the attempted hijack of the missiles.

Daxeah
>>107831163

I'm pretty sure he knew Amos's backstory going into the audition, he already loved the character and only wanted to play him.

Anonymous

You might of missed some nice drummer dialogue during your argument, great episode!

DrEEsky

Mostly it seems you are "arguing" on the same side of the equation here. Nerdy sees the motivation for the Belters on Tycho station to cause chaos, even if they die for it and Clarus (?) also understands they are upset and angry but doesn't understand the value of the actions they are taking. One on the refugee ship to cruelly make the Inners think they are going to another ship and then space them (they all went through the same catastrophe together!) and then the faction on Tycho shooting Drummer for not joining them and shooting another belter when Fred refuses to give them the launch codes. Their plan is of course to fire the nukes at Earth and cause chaos (very often the motivation for a lot of radical behavior!!) even if they are killed and as someone who believes in peace, live and let live like Clarus, I also don't get the point even if I understand the motivation. On another note, Clarus' guesses about what is to happen are routinely On Point!! Amazing work there! "something terrible is about to happen", it did, "the protomolecule is on Ganymede", it was! You have my attention and you really "get" this show!!

Armani
>>107832836

Ohh, didn’t know , have they watched invincible?

Sinewmire

The thing you might be missing is that Anderson Dawes genuinely believes in the siblinghood and mutual sharing of an anarchist Belter nation. Fred wants to use the nukes and the protomolecule to create a new Belter governement, in the model of Earth or Mars. Anderson Dawes doesn't want to become Earth or Mars. The oppressors, where the few hoard as much power as they can, and all the people can do is hope those in power today are good people. He wants to keep the Belt as it is - cooperation and mutual assistance against the real enemy, space. So Anderson Dawes shares the information. For better or for worse, he believes that humanity is better off if everyone has the weapons, everyone has the knowledge. Even if it causes arguments and fights, they are arguments and fights between equals. That's my take on it, anyway.

CrazyChameleon

You really think that vengeful thug wouldn't have used the missiles if he hadn't been lied too. You're naive bro.