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Raids of German People and Territory (Patreon)

Published:
2021-03-31 15:27:14
Imported:
2023-06

Content

This week the British are in the centre of our focus. They carry out a major area bombing raid and a commando raid on a port, and crucial German (French) port. They are not however successful across all theatres of war, as Japanese forces gain ground in both Burma and New Guinea, and in the Indian Ocean Britain is doing more evading than fighting. Even in Malta there is some good news, though the Brits likely don't see it that way just yet. This is because despite major bombings of the port island, any actual invasion plans seem increasingly unrealistic. 

Files

136 - The Carpet Bombing of Germany begins - WW2 - April 4, 1942

Britain's campaign to firebomb the old towns of Germany where civilians reside begins in earnest this week. The British also destroy the port at St. Nazaire in commando action. In the Indian Ocean, however, they are avoiding contact with the Japanese, even while on land the Japanese advance in both Burma and New Guinea. Check out Indy's Tie Barn to get your own tie right here: https://www.youtube.com/c/IndysTieBarn/featured Join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TimeGhostHistory Or join The TimeGhost Army directly at: https://timeghost.tv Check out our TimeGhost History YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/timeghost?sub_confirmation=1 Follow WW2 day by day on Instagram @ww2_day_by_day -https://www.instagram.com/ww2_day_by_day/ Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TimeGhostHistory/ Between 2 Wars: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrG5J-K5AYAU1R-HeWSfY2D1jy_sEssNG Source list: http://bit.ly/WW2sources Written and Hosted by: Indy Neidell Director: Astrid Deinhard Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson, Bodo Rittenauer Creative Producer: Maria Kyhle Post-Production Director: Wieke Kapteijns Research by: Indy Neidell Edited by: Iryna Dulka Sound design: Marek Kamiński Map animations: Eastory (https://www.youtube.com/c/eastory) Colorizations by: - Daniel Weiss - Carlos Ortega Pereira, BlauColorizations, https://www.instagram.com/blaucolorizations/ - Election1960 from Wiki Commons Sources: - Bundesarchiv - 101II-MW-3722-03 - IWM C 2351, A 11787, H_018753_1, R 1827 Soundtracks from the Epidemic Sound: - Rannar Sillard - Easy Target - Edward Karl Hanson - Spellbound - Phoenix Tail - At the Front - Jo Wandrini - Dragon King - Phoenix Tail - Last Minute Reaction - Craft Case - Secret Cargo - Fabien Tell - Last Point of Safe Return - Howard Harper-Barnes- Underlying Truth - Flouw - A Far Cry - Fabien Tell - Break Free - Wendel Scherer - Time to Face Them Archive by Screenocean/Reuters https://www.screenocean.com. A TimeGhost chronological documentary produced by OnLion Entertainment GmbH.

Comments

Anonymous

What Watch was indy wearing

Anonymous

Great stuff this week. Stilwell’s disparaging term for Chang (‘Peanut’) didn’t help things on that front either

Anonymous

At 8:45 there is a misattributed quote: "In addition, Chiang himself would accompany them back..." is attributed to Arthur Harris, "Bomber Offensive".

Anonymous

If the Axis had won the war, Harris would have been, in my opinion, rightly charged as a war criminal.

Anonymous
>>56821049

I'm sure they would, but it would be hypocritical at the highest level given the ethnic cleansing and genocide the Axis participated in. At the end of the day, the RAF bombing was about defeating Germany and liberating the occupied countries. The Germans have already mudered far more people than the area bombing campaign would kill, and would have killed tens of millions had they won the war. The RAF bombing campaign diverted guns, aircraft, manpower, and resources that could have gone to support the German subjugation of the Soviet Union and the extermination of the Jews and other "Subhumans". Ultimately, the RAF city bombing campaign would morph into a multi-faceted campaign that included the destruction of synthetic oil refineries, German rail centers, V weapon and U-boat facilities, direct ground support for troops and such. It was certainly a ruthless way to wage war, but it was borne from the inability to do much else at the time to hit back at Germany.

Anonymous

Maybe I should have worded it this way - if "Bomber Harris" was on the Axis side he would have been considered a war criminal bt the Allies

Anonymous

I have been looking but cant find how many troops did Brit have on Malta in Mar, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug '42

Anonymous

Approx 11 Battalions of British infantry, 3 Btn Maltese, 3 Gunner Rgts plus Royal Malta Artillery and a Home Guard of @3000 Plus support units totalling about 1800 who if pushed could pick up a rifle this included members of the Army Catering Corps who presumably could have done more damage to the Italian invaders by cooking them a meal.

Anonymous

Toad in the hole and haggis claim 100 more Eyeties. Good show, old bean.

Anonymous

I’ve read that a few Commandos from the St.Nazaire raid were able to escape capture, sneak out of town, and get themselves down and across the Spanish border and eventually back to the UK. Anyone know of any sources documenting this?

Anonymous
>>56919023

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_stnazaire2.html#dawn After (just) doing some searching this page has some decent info.

Anonymous

Bombing industrial targets is bombing civilians at work. Whether you bomb industrial or residential targets, you’re bombing civilians either way. When an army is chewed up in the war’s maw, it is replaced with civilians. The bombing offensive is not punitive. The purpose is not to punish the German people, nor is it to cripple industry or morale, but to threaten them with annihilation by terrorizing and killing them. The normal way wars end is with a negotiated settlement, but the Allies would not accept a negotiated settlement, only Germany’s unconditional surrender; total victory. A power will only surrender unconditionally if threatened with annihilation. If the objective is total victory, then the only usefulness battle has is to seize positions to project power from in order to hit the enemy at home. If you’re not going to pursue a negotiated settlement with the enemy, you have to terrorize and kill them at home and not stop until they surrender, are incapable of resistance, or are annihilated. If this prospect is too grizzly for your liking, you could avoid the bombing offensive by fighting the German Army in the field and then negotiating peace with Hitler. If you think the ensured survival of Nazi Germany through a peace deal sounds like a less grizzly prospect than the bombing offensive, then go ahead and condemn the bombing offensive. It is a tragedy that so many people were killed before the war ended. However, to condemn the Allied bombing offensive is to condemn the Allies' pursuance of total victory. I wouldn't. I think a negotiated peace would have been a mistake and that there was no morally superior course of action the Allies could have taken in response to the kind of confrontation the Axis were giving the rest of the world. The war had to be brought to Germany and to Japan.

Marc Steenbergen Netherlands
>>56962237

Very good points, Italy and Japan accepted with the latter negotiations a compromise on with regards to the Emperor (but still complete occupation). So there was very limited room for negotiation. Germany could have opted for the Italian way and e.g. Stauffenberg tried. Besides Germany was a Democracy before Hitler, sadly to many took what Fritz Fischer called the sonderweg. And fortunately Germany has changed an the neighbours never left.

Anonymous
>>56962237

The Blitz proved civilian bombing was NOT effective. In fact, if you look at allied intelligence it might've even had a positive effect on German morale - it gave them an enemy to hate. The only real bombing that seems to have had any practical effect was attacks on infrastructure. Also, as someone who had family that participated in the fire-bombing, it was REALLY hard on the morale for the bomber crews - they knew what they were doing.

Anonymous
>>56962237

Hay u do know that in wars past when a city was taken it was often times subject to sack if not total destruction. War is war. It is not fought just with armies but with populations. An army that does not have a population to support it does not last long. So if u are going to fight a war (which I would not do for any reason have been in one already and found it to be very dumb) u have to take out the other army and the population that is supporting in or u will lose.

Anonymous
>>56962237

The 'total destruction' of a city is NOT something that has been done in modern times, and we have rules of war that dictate how combatants shall conduct themselves. For example, the Geneva conventions, of which the UK is a signatory. Attacking civilian populations is a WAR CRIME, of which the British are unconditionally GUILTY. Even US commanders - the US is NOT a signatory of the Geneva conventions, we agree to follow them, but are not bound by them - found the idea revolting and refused to switch to bombing civilian targets (in Europe). I will reiterate, what you are describing is an outdated concept that has not been practiced in modern times*. *Except by a select few countries, such as Italy and Germany in WWII, whom were found guilty of war crimes in post war tribunals.

Anonymous

The Allied bombing offensive was justified. The burden is on us to consider the options people faced in the past, not just to condemn them for doing bad things. The bombing offensive was resorted to because a negotiated settlement was an even darker prospect. The Germans sought a negotiated settlement with Britain by threatening her empire. Hitler did not seek total victory over the British, so terrorizing and killing the Britons didn't serve his interests, and therefore cannot be justified as seeking to end the war. The true purpose of the Blitz remains one of the war's biggest mysteries, but it is my opinion that Hitler was of the mind that bombing could hinder production and morale, but that it just proved not to; only to terrorize and kill. In any case, the Allies understand this quite well and can use terrorism to further their strategic goals in a way the Axis cannot. Unconditional surrender can only be obtained by threatening the enemy with annihilation and the only way to do that is by actually annihilating some of them. It is a horrible thing to sow death and destruction like this, but the purpose of annihilating some of the Germans is to get all of them to surrender, not to wipe their people from the continent. It cannot be compared with Axis atrocities, which were aimed at the expulsion of peoples from Europe and carried out on a scale that dwarfs the Allies' killing of civilians. We also get confused by making the rather arbitrary distinction between 'the home' and 'the front'. People live at the front. Battles are usually named after towns near where they were fought: towns where people live. At the front, living rooms are mortared, bathroom windows shot through, bedrooms blown up. The war brings destruction everywhere it goes and, because the Allies would accept no terms of surrender, could not end until it went to Germany. The monstrous Nazi regime would not surrender. If you maul its armies in the field, it will send you its teenagers, then its twelve and thirteen-year-olds. Even fighting its armies in the field involves killing children. Many of the soldiers of the Axis' conscript armies were victims of political murder; given suicidal orders in a lost cause by callous political ideologues. Is it morally superior to kill a generation of young men while their totalitarian masters shovel more of them to the front to die? The Allies may not be able to topple the Nazi regime, but if the German people were to suffer the war's privations, they would want it stopped at once. Then, maybe the people will topple the regime. The German people at home were not feeling the privations of war. Instead, the people in the occupied territories were starving to death. In order for the Germans to be coaxed into surrender, this had to change. It is a horrible thing, but this task necessitated inflicting on the German people the death, destruction and destitution that people in the war zone had been experiencing. The Allies did terrible things in the cause of goodness, but this is called "sacrifice" and what was preserved was worth the price paid. If the twentieth century has taught us anything, it's that the march of progress is not inexorable and that we must defend ourselves against backward ideologies that threaten to plunge us back into paleolithic violence and poverty. In the furtherance of such a cause, the infliction of death and pain is no less terrible, but is certainly justified.

Anonymous

The bombing of Dresden prevented a siege of Dresden like what happened at Budapest- 75,000+ civilians died there, 230,000 German and 250,000 Soviets over a four month period. The 25,000 that died at Dresden were for all intents and purposes a lesser of two evils.