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Guderian is Out! (Patreon)

Published:
2020-12-23 19:28:04
Imported:
2023-06

Content

This week, Japan sees resounding success with its attacks on South East Asia. The Arcadia conference is held to coordinate the British and U.S war efforts. This conference is desperately needed, as both countries have seen major losses to Japan. Hong Kong falls this week. FDR decides to write off the Philippines as a loss and put all U.S resources behind the crucial port of Singapore, a move that infuriates his senior military officials. 

The Germans are not having the same success as their Japanese counterparts. In fact, the failed German drive on Moscow has now put their Army Group Center at risk of being wiped out. Hitler spends this time ordering his commanders not to withdraw one step and enforces this by dismissing anyone that's disobedient. Among those dismissed is Heinz Guderian, one of the leading thinkers of the concentrated German armor tactics which brought their Army so much success by this point in the war. 

Files

Heinz Guderian's Christmas and the fall of Hong Kong - WW2 - 122 - December 26, 1941

The Japanese offensives and advances in Southeast Asia and the Pacific continue unabated and both Hong Kong and Wake Island fall. British and American leaders begin the Arcadia Conference to decide just how they are going to fight this war together, and there are more changes made in the German High Command on the Eastern Front, even as the Soviets make advances there. Check out Jean Paul's museum here: https://www.romagne14-18.com/english-home Join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TimeGhostHistory Or join The TimeGhost Army directly at: https://timeghost.tv Check out our TimeGhost History YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/timeghost?sub_confirmation=1 Follow WW2 day by day on Instagram @ww2_day_by_day -https://www.instagram.com/ww2_day_by_day/ Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TimeGhostHistory/ Between 2 Wars: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrG5J-K5AYAU1R-HeWSfY2D1jy_sEssNG Source list: http://bit.ly/WW2sources Written and Hosted by: Indy Neidell Director: Astrid Deinhard Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson, Bodo Rittenauer Creative Producer: Maria Kyhle Post-Production Director: Wieke Kapteijns Research by: Indy Neidell Edited by: Iryna Dulka Sound design: Marek Kamiński Map animations: Eastory (https://www.youtube.com/c/eastory) Colorizations by: - Dememorabilia - https://www.instagram.com/dememorabilia/ - Carlos Ortega Pereira, BlauColorizations, https://www.instagram.com/blaucolorizations/ - Norman Stewart - https://oldtimesincolor.blogspot.com/ Sources: - IWM: FE 203 - Battleship by Anand Prahlad from the Noun Project - Man by Milinda Courey from the Noun Project - prisoner by Luis Prado from the Noun Project - bockelsound from freesound.org Archive by Screenocean/Reuters https://www.screenocean.com. A TimeGhost chronological documentary produced by OnLion Entertainment GmbH.

Comments

Anders

Solid plan by McArthur.

Anonymous

British PM Winston Churchill suffered a heart attack during his stay at the White House in December. He traveled to Canada by train, as his physician, Lord Moran, forbade his travel by air(unpressurized cabin) to London for several weeks. Thus came about his famous speech in Ottowa, also when Yousef Karsh snapped the famous photo of WCS.

Anonymous

Yo, Indie and crue! You are F... awesome. What about women "wharewoolf" of the ss (i can send you Rob Zombie Version)? So as to speack females in Wehrmacht in general?

Anonymous

We are also approaching the time when Chiang kai shek first offers to send Chinese troops to help defend Burma and Britain says no.

Anonymous

I guess I'll do what is becoming my weekly defense of MacArthur now. First though, I'm not a fan boy of MacArthur, I don't love or hate the guy. I just think he has gotten a terrible reputation thanks to many media members from back in the day not liking him (because of trivial reasons like not giving them interviews or the housing he gave them not being to the level the journalists received in Europe) and some older historians making errors and not focusing their work on primary sources to make their conclusions. As for this weeks topic on MacArthur regarding the food/supply situation. To start I'll say as Indy mentioned in the video when the Japanese attacked the US and Filipinos forces were in the process of changing up their defensive plan to stop the Japanese at the beaches. The Japanese attacked while MacArthur's command in the Philippines was still waiting for the troops and equipment to make such a defense possible. It is not MacArthur's or anyone's fault the Japanese attacked in the middle of the changing of the plans, the Japanese just deserve credit for a well executed and timed plan. As I stated in past comments General George Marshall who also served in the Philippines was in agreement with MacArthur's plan to change up the defensive plan of the Philippines. After the attack on the Philippines began MacArthur immediately recognized the new plan could not be executed and reverted the US and Filipino defensive plan to the plan to defend at Bataan and wait for the US Pacific Fleet to help them. That of course could not happen anymore since the US Pacific fleet was pretty much destroyed. MacArthur was able to get the majority of his troops back to Bataan with a large amount of supplies but he did not get all the supplies he could have gotten. He is often criticized for not taking the rice supplies from the Philippines capital city of Manilla. Could those supplies have helped the allied forces last longer in Bataan? Yes, I do think they may have. But even if they could have lasted longer in Bataan with those supplies I still think MacArthur made the correct decisions in not taking the food supplies from Manilla. I'll explain why I think that below. I think MacArthur's decisions was correct because first, lets point out that the US and Filipino forces within the Bataan peninsula will last many more months there then anyone thought they would last. When the Japanese first started attacking Bataan they thought they would overrun it in a matter of weeks and were so confidante that they will start to remove troops from the Philippines before taking over Bataan. With great anger and regret the Japanese will need to then send troops back to the Philippines in order to try to knock MacArthur and his forces off the island. They fail to do so even after bringing the forces back to the Philippines. It wasn't until after FDR ordered MacArthur to leave the Philippines that general Wainwright will surrender the island when the Japanese capture Cargador Island and threaten to execute the troops they capture there. That is months past where anyone thought the allied forces would last and months past even what the original defense plans called for the forces at the Philippines to last on the Bataan peninsula because the US Pacific fleet was supposed to come help them right away in the original plans. The second issue with taking the food from Manila for the troops in Bataan is it would have led to people in the city dying of starvation. That was all the food they had to live off of and if they found out that the Americans took it for themselves there is a chance that the people of the Philippines could have reacted to the Japanese invasion like the Asian people of the European colonies did and support the Japanese. Had the Americans not treated the people of the Philippines like a independent country they were looking over or had MacArthur been demeaning to the troops of the Philippines it could have resulted in the allies having to fight yet another enemy forces. Something MacArthur is almost never given credit for is his love of Asian culture (he used to where a a kimono while smoking a cigarette in a Chinese jade cigarette holder). MacArthur always went out of his way to praise the people of the Philippines and their military to the point that quotes from MacArthur on the Filipino troops are still stated today as a matter of national pride in the Philippines. So at the end of the day I don't see how it could have been worth it for MacArthur to take the food supplies from the people of the Philippines to feed the troops in Bataan when while short on supplies they did still have enough to be able to hold out there for months longer then anyone thought they would have and taking the supplies from the people of the Philippines could have also resulted in the people shifting their allegiance from the United States and over to the Japanese as happened on many other colonies the Japanese took over.

Anonymous

Guderian championed the 'Moscow first' plan, where he focused on Moscow and not go for the Ukraine. Even though it wouldn't have won the war and left valuable resources in the south uncollected. Now he's getting sacked, and afterwards he'll claim that if only Hitler had listened to him and not redirected south and captured Moscow they'd have won. Him and the rest of the generals were messing up as much as their leader was.

Anonymous

Great episode! Merry Christmas to you all

Anonymous

Great episode. Also great to hear JP's museum will make it ! For anyone that wants to learn more about the Malaya debacle James Eeling's Principles of War podcast series is quite good. https://www.owltail.com/podcast/8097-the-principles-of-war-lessons-from-military-history-on-strategy-tactics-and-leadership/best-episodes

Anonymous

Dan Carlins Hardcore History does a really good breakdown of the Japanese advance in South East Asia.

Anonymous
>>50073181

First, the Japanese, the Filipinos, the Thais, the Burmese, the Indonesians and Asians in general were not simpletons whose feelings about Japanese invasion would be dictated by how the white people in charge reacted to the Japanese invasion. The Japanese had spent years building up networks in Burma and in Indonesia which helped when they invaded. They were also helped because the Dutch Policy in the DEI was much less accommodating of local elite participation. The same was true in Burma where the British had imported a sub strata of mid level officials from British India to run the place which limited opportunities for Bamar people to rise in the colonial government. These were long simmering situations with decades behind them. Even there... Japanese mismanagement quickly turned these movements hostile with the Burma Independence Army turning on Japan in 1943. The Philippines were not the same. The US had committed the Philippines to independence in 1916 to be completed by 1944. The Filipinos weren't naïve idiots who didn't know about Japanese atrocities in China. They knew and they were under no illusions about what Japanese conquest would mean. The president of the Philippines even tried to get Filipino neutrality recognized by Japan and the United States. The idea that MacArthur or any US commander would have had to tell the Filipinos that Japan was bad news. Second, Filipinos were going to start dying of starvation the minute they came under Japanese control. Food for 100,000 in Bataan wasn't going to make a difference for 500,000+ in Manila... because the Japanese needed food. Any food not taken by the Americans wasn't left for the Filipinos... it was left for the Japanese first, and only then would the Japanese decide what went to the regular population. We don't really yell at Stalin for not leaving food for the civilians as the red army retreated because we know that those people were screwed the moment the front line got close to them. Any food was going to go feed somebody's troops, not the civilians, the only choice was Soviet or German ones. And if you look into the specifics it's even worse. You can read this book, https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/5-2/5-2_15.htm (The War in the Pacific by Louis Morton) an official US history of the war. Look on page 255, "At Tarlac Lt. Col. Charles S. Lawrence, commander of the depot there, planned to take over about 2,000 cases of canned food, mostly fish and corned beef, as well as a considerable quantity of clothing that belonged to Japanese firms. He was informed by MacArthur's headquarters that he had no right to do so and that he would be court-martialed if he did. These supplies were later destroyed during operations" That's not ok. That's not a "whoopsie doodle." Macarthur didn't revert to stockpiling supplies on Bataan until December 24th.... more than two weeks after Japan had destroyed the airforce in the Philippines. Up until that point, US army logistic teams were still helpfully shipping supplies to forward bases, nicely gift wrapped for Japan which had proven its ability to smash through Allied troops in open terrain. Also, most of the 110,000+ people in Bataan (69,000 troops + 26,000 civilians) were also Filipinos, only about 20,000 people there were Americans, so I don't think diverting food from Manila to feed them would have been taken as badly by Filipinos as you posit. Third, that Macarthur took 9 hours to bring himself and his command up to combat readiness after hearing about Pearl harbour is inexcusable. He heard about it at 3:00 AM and his planes were still on the ground at noon. Finally, the change from War Plan Orange was incredibly wrong headed. The original plan was for an estimated 40,000 troops to withdraw to Bataan to hold for 6 months and deny Japan the use of Manila Bay. In the historical situation, War Plan Orange ended up being hastily reinstated with inadequate supplies and 3 times as many troops, many of whom had already been defeated in the field. The plan still worked for 3 months however. Had Bataan been properly supplied, it could have held out for longer and that buys time. It forces Japan to waste troops in the Philippines and not reinforce Burma or China, it helps pull them out of New Guinea. We can see the effect of forcing the enemy to maintain a siege on the Eastern Front in Leningrad, where the siege tied down 3/4 of a million German troops for 2 years. In the actual historical case, the Japanese were able to bottle up Bataan with less troops than the Allies had and redeploy because they knew the troops on the peninsula had already lost all offensive capability.

Anonymous

Hear you and saw you are some cool names for aircraft carriers.

Anonymous
>>50093807

It's a good breakdown until the US gets involved. For example, leaves out Burma entirely with the exception of one mention in episode 5 which is sort of like... "Woops, I left that out when it actually chronologically happened. Here is 2 minutes to say the Japanese are also fighting there, but now back to 3 hours on New Guinea and Guadalcanal" It's a good series, but it shifts from the Asia Pacific war.... to the Pacific War pretty hard once the US joins.

Eric Johnson

Indy we need to hear you play the guitar!

Anonymous

Merry Christmas!