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Attack on Titan 4x20: "Memories of the Future" // Early Reaction and Discussion (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-16 04:12:05
Imported:
2023-01

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Attack on Titan 4x20: "Memories of the Future" // Early Reaction and Discussion

00:00 Intro 05:47 Reaction to Show 18:35 Discussion

Comments

三上
>>99789904

Hi, I am Japanese. Grisha says "カルラの安否", so the translation is correct. The pronunciation is similar for sure, I'm impressed at your listening ability and careful attention to small details.

Stephen
>>99789904

Oh interesting! Thanks for the correction! I'm still working on my listening hahaha

D

Last Also...Anna is super smart lol Edit: Ben too.. 1:34:00 Comment. Chef's kiss. The fact that yall are able to put all this together in one sitting is brilliant and makes me excited for future shows like this that you watch....monster hint hint lol

Stoke me a clipper

As this episode alludes to, Eren saw his dad's memories when he kissed Historia's hand. He probably saw the memories future Eren let Grisha see, too. Four years ago, he saw a terrible future. Four years later he's doing everything in his power to ensure it does not stray from that path. Those who push themselves into hell...

Anonymous

How can I wait till friday tho

Child of the forest

Okay, it's just amazing how you were able to put so much together in one sitting. But just in case you two are not able to articulate it well in your head, I'd explain the paths mechanics here which took me 3 re reads of the manga chapter for this episode to fully get. Time travel is not a thing in AoT. Only the memories and will to act travel. Zeke and eren were there the entire time, but grisha saw Zeke only twice. One was when he was in the basement and the other was outside the cave. Again, it's the memories. Grisha saw everything from eren's pov. The reason being eren was standing behind grisha and looking at Zeke on those two occasions. As Anna pointed out, eren realised this when grisha first saw Zeke in the basement. And after that you could see how the control of this journey shifted from Zeke to eren. Till that moment, zeke was leading the way. But right after eren realised what's happening, he took control. Another thing, grisha never saw future eren, he just felt his presence. In the 🗝️ scene when grisha is looking at future eren, he's basically looking at himself in 3rd person. It's not memories of the judgement day that he's seeing. Those are memories eren has ofcourse sent him but whenever he looks at eren, he sees himself in 3rd person because eren is looking at him. Also in the cave grisha felt eren's angry presence behind him. Grisha was literally being watched by eren all along and grisha knew this. Lastly, attack titan can see the future is a very oversimplified explanation. Actually it's the memories sent by eren to the past that makes AT see the future. Same happened when eren passed the memories to Kruger (the owl) when se said "you have to save Mikasa and Armin" to grisha. Eren IS the Attack Titan. The characteristic of the Attack Titan to keep moving forward and seek freedom is literally Eren's characteristic. Eren manipulated all past users to keep moving forward and act the way he wants just so he could reach this point so much so that it was thought to be a characteristic of the AT when eren is literally the person who gave this power to AT. You asked "why eren", it's because he is the only person to satisfy certain conditions. He had the AT, the founder and a titan of royal blood using which he made it to the coordinate. It doesn't even have to be AT. If eren had the cart titan, he could have still done the same thing and the world would have said "the cart titan is the one that moves forward and seeks freedom". So it's not that AT influences it's holders to seek freedom, it's eren influencing other holders throught the AT to seek freedom. And yes Anna, eren can manipulate previous holders and he did that to all the holders of the AT since it's first holder to reach the point where grisha takes the founder and gives it to eren. "We were led by our memories for this one moment". Just like how the first king's ideals affect every founding Titan Inheritor, eren's ideals affect every past AT holder. So FT is connected with the past and AT is connected to the future. So eren created these manipulations after getting access to the coordinate after they touched, but then a future eren sent the memories of these manipulations to grisha in the past. It's trippy. Like the forming of the memory and the sending of that memory is happening at the same time. So as Ben said, everything from s1-s4 was already influenced. Yes it was. Because grisha getting the memories of getting manipulated by eren into killing the royal family is a memory being sent to him by a future eren(Eren we are about to see who's gonna do "something terrible" as grisha said). The same eren who sent him the future memory of "something terrible" that grisha tells zeke about. Eren cannot see the future. Nor can any holder of the AT. It's only when eren wants them to see what he has already seen in his time that past holders can see the future. Eren only saw his future in a roundabout way through his dad's memories when he kissed historia's hand. The same memories that he created after going to the coordinate with Zeke and then sending those memories to grisha. Yes, it's a loop. So yes, AT is on rails. Now there's this question to ponder over, does eren have free will? It might seem that he does because everything happened as he wanted but then by knowing the future, he's trying to make sure it doesn't deviate from that path. So, is he doing what he's doing because he saw the future and does that make him really free because the future is holding him captive? To me, eren is a slave to his own future memories and his nature. This entire episode was a commentary of nature vs nurture aka eren vs Zeke. Lastly, You may think how grisha touched Zeke. It's just that he was hugging the space where zeke was standing. In real time, if anyone had seen grisha would have thought grisha is just hugging air. That scene symbolises a "fake" hug or a "hollow" hug symbolising it's too late for grisha to redeem himself as zeke's father.

Joshua

Great discussion as always! Something to add is this. I do not think that Eren necessarily got a "power up" when he touched Zeke. Eren's attack titan power has always been the same, which is to send memories back to the past. HOWEVER, the fact that Zeke used the paths to bring Eren into Grisha's memory, means that Grisha saw his OWN future through Eren's eyes, which led him on the rails to this specific outcome. This is not normally possible. At least that's how I saw it.

Deonte Gray

Eren is the child geisha wanted in Marley and zeke is the child he wanted on Paradis

Russell Gambardella

It’s interesting how after Grisha steals the Founding Titan he asks Zeke to stop Eren…yet he proceeds to inject Eren with Titan serum and give him the Founding Titan. I know he’s been manipulated by Eren who’s been showing him convenient bits of the future but technically, he still had the choice to never give Eren the Founding Titan at that point in time. I’m not saying this is a plot hole as I can think of a few reasons why Grisha would still ultimately willingly choose to give Eren the Founding Titan… “boy” Eren technically hasn’t done anything yet…Eren’s safety…hoping the future he saw through Eren’s memories is not set in stone…Grisha was very traumatized and emotional in the moment he asked Zeke to stop him….etc, I was just wondering if there’s any more explicit clarity on this in the manga as I haven’t read it yet!

Readster
>>99724248

My understanding is that once Grisha gets back and finds out that Carla is dead he gives up completely and doesn't care anymore. He's lost both of the women he loves as well as his sister. Noteably, when he injects Eren, along with the line about Armin and Mikasa, he also tells Eren to avenge Carla. Basically Grisha is so overcome with grief, along with all of the emotions he's still feeling from taking the Founding Titan, that he has completely changed his mind and just wants to let Eren get his way.

Child of the forest
>>99724248

One is that he found carla dead and thought that he has no other choice. Also his term of 13 years must have been close to being over. Another reason is yet to be animated

Deonte Gray

Look at how eren is positioned everytime grisha saw zeke eren was facing zeke when grisha saw zeke

Eugene

Definitely Pieck fiction.

Joshua
>>99724248

My speculation is that Eren will still send more memories back to the past in a convenient time to convince Grisha to give Eren the founding. It's like they said, Eren picks and chooses what memory to send back to direct how Grisha reacts. At this moment, he sent memories of "something horrible" because he knows this is what Grisha has to see right now. It's possible that Eren sends "something good" when Grisha gets back to Eren, which convinces him.

bondbond53

Eren himself has always been a slave to himself and the idea of freedom

Russell Gambardella
>>99724248

Ah yea I forgot to consider his further troubles emotional state when he finds out Carla is dead, thanks!

Russell Gambardella
>>99724248

Not sure if it’s because I’m on mobile but I wanted to thank you all (Readster, Sayantan, and Joshua) for taking the time to reply! Great community <3

Stephen

One thing I noticed in this episode is when Grisha says Eren didn’t show him whether or not Carla is safe, he says “カルラの安地” which better translates as Carla’s safe place” or a safe place for Carla

hman70

Part 3 March 4th! At their pace they’ll catch up with about two weeks to breathe. 2023 is our year guys

Adam Adamowicz
>>99802991

Yeah! They'll be exactly on time to watch it live with all of us, that's gonna be so freakin sweet!

D
>>99720384

Your analysis of Eren's free will is exactly what I ess getting at in earlier comments. And I completely agree with your conclusion. Great post.

Adam Adamowicz
>>99727452

Exactly. It's easy to miss but it explains perfectly how this works. Griesha can hear Eren because he has the power to glimpse into the future, so he can connect with future Eren. But why he can see Zeke? Because they are together in these memories, whenever Eren is connected to Griesha and looks at Zeke, Griesha can see him too, like from a 3rd person camera perspective. It's crazy how well thought-through this is. Isayama alone gave 10 times more thought and consistency to time travel than all of superhero genre.