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Should I release this bonus Zelda video? (Patreon)

Published:
2017-03-23 07:38:33
Edited:
2017-03-23 07:57:32
Imported:
2020-07

Content

Hey team

After I finished my Breath of the Wild video, I toyed with this idea of doing a bonus follow-up video, to touch on that same topic, but from a different angle. 

This would allow me to make stuff without the epic production schedule of a usual episode (using a more off-the-cuff script, and re-using footage gathered for the main video), and also touch on topics that don't exactly fit GTMK's remit. 

So I made this video, touching on some of the more interesting elements of Breath of the Wild's somewhat-maligned soundtrack - from allusions to classic Zelda tunes, to referencing the game's themes in its music, to a lovely example of a song that changes over time. 

You can watch it above. It has roughly the same spoiler content as the main episode. There's a spoiler warning towards the end for a side-quest you may wish to finish yourself. 

So I'm pleased that I was able to make something, from start to finish, in less than two days. On Tuesday I wrote the script, gathered a bit more footage, recorded the vocals, and laid down all of the audio tracks. Then on Wednesday I overlaid some video footage, applied some motion graphics, and exported. 

A normal episode can take one, two or, three weeks to make!

But I'm hesitant to release it on my channel, for a number of reasons. One, is that I value quality extremely highly and want everything that appears on my YT channel to be awesome. I don't do update videos or anything like that, to reflect this. While I'm proud of this music-related video, I'm not sure it's as worthy as main episodes. 

Two is Zelda fatigue. So far in 2017, subscribers have seen a Twilight Princess Boss Keys, a Zelda 1 video, a Breath of the Wild video, and they'll soon be seeing a Spirit Tracks Boss Keys. If I was a viewer who didn't care about Zelda, another video might just make me unsubscribe!

And three is that it's another gushy BOTW video. I mean, I love this game like crazy but as a critic I'm not sure I want to come off as a hopelessly biased fanboy for a certain game. Though, maybe that's fine - we all have our preferences, and I'm not really shy about revealing them (see: number of Far Cry 2, Mario, Dark Souls references in GMTK). 

Anyway. Would really appreciate your thoughts on this one. I'm obviously not charging Patrons for it, and it may also have some ads because Nintendo took a copyright strike on the music (though I may fight that, as it's about the music, and should be covered under fair use). 

(Scrap that, YouTube's copyright claim thing is really scary and it basically threatens to delete your channel if you make a false claim so eff that)

Thanks!

Mark

Files

Breath of the Wild's beautiful soundtrack | Downloadable Comment

Uploaded by Mark Brown on 2017-03-22.

Comments

Anonymous

Hey Mark, amazing video as always. You need not worry about quality as everything from what you say to all the edits are top-notch as usual, really awesome stuff like main episodes. The spoiler really makes me want to finish the quest as soon as possible (even though I don't want to grind the rupees out) but yea I must say that even though I knew the music was amazing, subtle as it was, had carried so much meaning and incorporated so well to the game's theme as well as the Zelda Legacy. Thanks for the video, I'd say to upload it but be careful with the copyright strike stuff!

Anonymous

Hey Mark! The quality of this episode is still very high. Thank you so much!

Anonymous

Hey Mark, this was quite entertaining! The music in this game is quite subtle, and I love the little allusions to other Zelda games and songs scattered throughout. The town quest that you talked about at the end of the video really reminds me of the Colony 6 quest from Xenoblade Chronicles, developed by Monolith Soft. In that game, you gathered new townspeople and renovated a town, with the music changing the further along you got. It's funny to think about, especially since Monolith Soft helped work on Breath of the Wild. I can understand what you mean by your audience possibly having "Zelda" fatigue. However, this was very well done, and would be a great addition to your initial BotW video. I think it'd be a waste if you didn't post this video after working on it, especially for how efficiently you produced it. Though, if you wanted to, you could always make a pinned comment on your initial Breath of the Wild video, with a link to this one. Possibly unlisted as well, if need be.

Anonymous (edited)

Comment edits

2023-01-06 20:14:47 しっとりおっぱい最高ですわぁ〜
2017-03-23 08:04:58 I loved this one, Mark. Bring it on!

I loved this one, Mark. Bring it on!

Anonymous

I am loving the video so far, I'm at 7:45, and I'm off to do that side quest now before I finish the video.

Anonymous

Hmm, I really like the video, but I think it there's a little too much listing near the beginning and it drags a bit before you get to the meat of the essay (although i can sit and listen to Zelda music all day, so no complaints from me) Breathe of the Wild is a phenomenal game, and there's a lot to discuss. Share the video while it's still a hot and relevant thing. We only have a few more days really till Persona 5 comes out and we move on.

Anonymous

Hi Mark, I would release it as it's still a good quality video and talks about some interesting things. Having a separate playlist for non GMTK videos is a good idea. Zelda fatigue could be a problem though, I agree there. However it's to be expected that there will be tons of Zelda videos around at the moment. Perhaps put up a short non-Zelda-titled video explaining that a more varied service will return before long? Anyway, love the channel, it's all fascinating stuff!

Arvin

Hey Mark, the Main theme actually also appears in Kass' theme (Complete version)! That theme is my favourite from BotW so far: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiU65nQdZE8" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiU65nQdZE8</a>

Anonymous

Imo it is an interesting video, but since it focuses on a) a single game and b) something you've pretty much already made a video on, you are right to have some concerns. Considering how you said you would not speak about Zelda for a while on your previous video it would be strange that you release a new one so close after it. That being said, if it makes sense financially and/or you feel proud of it by all means release it. If not, then perhaps release it (unlisted?) together with your new Boss Keys episode, linking to it at the end of the video.

Mathew Dyason

This is great! I really loved the part about Tarrey Town, poetic stuff. Is it just me or is there a hint of Zelda's Lullaby in the piano of Tarrey Town too? And my goodness I just love that plonky piano when riding your horse. From an editing point of view, I don't think there's that much of a dip compared to GMTK. The difference I think is in the writing, it seemed a bit less structured, up until Tarrey Town at least. But i think if the script was a bit tighter, it could probably stand as a GMTK episode. Though I guess a lot of these things aren't unique to BotW, but just interesting examples in the game. Big question for me would be if it will impact your schedule. If you can knock these out and continue posting GMTK at mostly your usual pace, then go for it! I wouldn't worry too much about Zelda fatigue or coming across as a fanboy: just do you! People obviously like your Zelda content anyway. And it's kinda understood to be an accessory to the previous episode, not a whole on its own. Perhaps it's worth marketing it a little differently with thumbnails, to make it obvious it's not GMTK and therefore not held to the same kind of standard, if you're concerned about that. I truly don't think the difference is that too great, it doesn't come across as phoned in at all. I was wondering if I could do something similar, but am suffering from a lack of Switch. :( Video was very interesting for me at least, so I say go for it!

Anonymous

It honestly doesn't seem like much more than gushing - fair enough the use of the soundtrack and the soundtrack itself are good, but I think you should have more to contrast against. If this works - what doesn't? For example, I like final fantasy's music, but it's pretty much non-stop, but I feel it works for the game where they control scene transitions and scoring and where the music is pretty much the voice of the games, not much else in terms of atmospherics - referring to the ones before voice acting was introduced, as you have to use music differently and more carefully when voice acting's involved. Some games don't let the actors do their jobs and just flood the scene with music. And some games wouldn't have let botw's world do its job and flood that. Let me put it this way; can you demonstrate that the game would not work if the score had been different? Probably a bit daft to try and demonstrate opinion, but there you go.

Anonymous

The the video is as well executed as always. Though it is quite different and less packed with design content apart from using the music (Adaptive Soundtracks got it covered enough I think). It is a great treat for Zelda fans but not so much for others, unfortunately. If you would add some contrast (Like Alexander above said) it would make the episode more interesting and educational than just presentation of good soundtrack.

Anonymous

My 2c is the quality's on par with the rest of your great content, but I'd have to agree it's a lot of Zelda on the channel in a short amount of time. What about keeping it in your back pocket for a few months? You could release it when you've got a busy week or something unexpectedly pops up.

Anonymous

Have you thought of making a second channel where you can put up videos like these among other things like your monthly playlists? I would love to see other things from you other than just your GMT episodes.

Mathew Dyason
>>4381649

Also, I think Kakariko Village is referencing Epona's theme! Not sure why that is though.

Anonymous

If you just add [Bonus] in the title or any mention saying it's a different kind of video, I think it should be great to go public. I mean, Casey Neistat doesn't overthink this, everything he uploads is in the same channel: daily vlog, experiments, ads, shorts etc. And the whole reflects his work, as your channel will reflect yours (experiments included). PS: you will always have complainers :)

Liam Harvey

You're being too harsh on yourself Mark, that was a really interesting video! Tarrey Talk was a fascinating bit of analysis. Nice work. It's very different from a GMT episode, sure, but by being clearly designated as a bonus ep, those expectations aren't there. Plus it must be nice for you, right? Those little stray thoughts and diversions whilst you're playing/writing can have a home too, you're not beholden to your (otherwise excellent!) format. Especially with going full-time, you might need that little extra spice occasionally, while not necessarily committing to a huge undertaking like Boss Keys. Downloadable Comment though? Hm.

Anonymous

I understand what you mean, you don't want to stray too far from your brand and want to keep your channel in focus. I'd say the music is worth talking about, though. It's always been a big part of past Zelda games, and the lack of it (or reserved use of it) this time around is rather important, I think. It's as much of the design as anything else, like when the air is cold you get that piercing high strings. Also, I like your mo-graph, do you use After Effects?

Anonymous

It's such a great tool, I'm constantly blown away by how versatile it is. Keep at it! &lt;3

Anonymous

You've spent time on it so I think you should release it. Another Zelda video doesn't hurt, and people always want the extra depth and thought you give your topics.

Anonymous

Hi mark, I really like this video and I think it manages to capture a lot of what makes BOTW's music so great. It is a mature soundtrack that knows when to sit back and when to embellish. The notes you dont play are just as important as the ones you do. In particular i love the moments of subtle piano flourish, just as you cross the brow of a hill to take in a new landscape. It feels at times that there is a dedicated conductor watching you play and timing those moments pefectly. You should definitely release this video.

Anonymous

Absolutely loved the video! Release this to Youtube, it's great quality!

Anonymous

It's a good one, but not up to your quality standards. I mean, it fuels my hype for this game, but it's not a usual GMTK video where you show how some stuff can be done in various ways and what's good or bad about it. Here you're just showing how cool the soundtrack for BOTW is, and that's it.

Ed White

Hi Mark! I agree with everyone else that this is a great video, even if you think it's not on-brand for GTMK--though it does feel on brand to me! That said, there may be a middle-ground here. Why not just start using these "GTMK lite" videos as a Patreon perk? And maybe you post some of the standout lite editions to your main YouTube every so often if you're running late, etc. Personally I'd like to see even more videos from you, so this scratches the itch in between new uploads. Not a bad thing and potentially a great way to boost your Patreon even further. You could probably post even rougher content/drafts here and I'd still be happy at the opportunity to peek behind the curtain.

Anonymous

I am a big fan of you quality standards and for me this video works perfectly well as a bonus follow-up of the last GMTK episode. The video ist still very well produced and your approach remains rather analytical despite being less tightly scripted and having less cross-references. I was actually wondering about BOTWs soundtrack, it being an open world game and me having the Adaptive Soundtrack episode in mind. It does fit into your body of work. Then again, I like all of your videos for their quality and for your calm thoughtfulness, so personally I won't get fatigued easily by your content as long as your style and your quality standards don't drop drastically, no matter what's the topic. If I wasn't a patron I definitely wouldn't have wanted to miss out on this!

Anonymous

Entrancing video, love the idea of the DLC series.

Anonymous

I found it well-produced and interesting, if small, but your concerns are valid. After all, you did promise you wouldn't talk about Zelda ever again. ;-) You could recycle the content in a larger GMTK episode on dynamic music... no, wait, you already made such an episode (and dedicated a third of it to Nintendo games). :D So options are: release it, keep it a Patreon exclusive, or diversify and actually make a separate channel dedicated to "Downloadable Comment" and/or "Zelda Maker's Toolkit", under the assumption that this won't be the last one, either. I dunno. But I'll be gobbling up these videos wherever you post them.

Rich Stoehr

Hi Mark - I like that we're your "team." :) As a fan of soundtracks, I thought your video was insightful and that, with all the Zelda you've been playing recently, you are uniquely positioned to make some of the observations you have, like all the callbacks to previous Zelda games buried within the score itself. That was a long sentence, sorry. Anyway, there's things you mention here that are a lot more than just "gushing" - you're still taking a closer look at a specific game element and why it matters to a game. The main difference here is that you're not extending the idea to other games, but your adaptive soundtracks video for a lot of that work already - might be good to refer to it here somewhere. Is this a full on GMT video? No, but you're not billing it as such. Is it interesting, insightful, and does it say something unique? I'd say that it does! Pretty awesome, in my book, and worthy of your channel. I think it's good that you're branching out and trying new things. Nice work!

Anonymous

Hi Mark, i get your concerns. 2 Years ago you made a Video about adaptive Soundstracks, which was awesome btw. I think you can use this Material to make a similar video about Video games referencing their own music or using silence or whatever. This way the material you made isn't "lost", you enhance the quality of the video and its not about Zelda. Nevertheless, thnks for showing it to us

Anonymous

I'm personally always hankering for more of your content. However, you're right, this feels more expository than some of your other videos, and it's on similar content. I would say that people who aren't interested will know that at the start, your intro outlines pretty clearly what the video is about. Maybe just let your viewers decide if they want to watch or not? I still think it's top notch work :)

Anonymous

As far as YouTube and Copyright/ Fair Use status, it's pretty well known to be broken. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBtRhgLo3rk" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBtRhgLo3rk</a> is one video among many of the subject. I'm not sure how automatic Nintendo is as far as copyright violation reporting is, but...

Anonymous

Hey Mark. I liked the video just as much as your other videos. Very informative, well structured and high production quality as always. I think it would fit right in with your other videos. And as it's not a main video, I don't think it will lead to people unsubbing because of the amount of Zelda content. It's not like it's taking much of your time away from working on the main videos. I did however notice that you called the instrument that was added in the Tarrey Town music with the Gerudo a "sitar"? I think it's actually some kind of hammered dulcimer, maybe the Indian variant, Santoor. Just a minor thing though. Thanks for showing us the video. Love your work. :)

GameMakersToolkit

Hey everyone. Thanks for your comments, I read them all and took them all in. I'm going to release this episode, but make it very clear that it is a bonus video. I think my pursuit of super high quality has lead me to not doing videos I'd really enjoy making and I wanna break that spell a bit. GMTK will always be subject to the highest scrutiny, but that doesn't mean I can't kick a little loose on the channel and still share my opinion in a video. This is something I'll be handling carefully of course - don't expect to see one of these very frequently at all. But glad to have your support, and very much appreciate the feedback / criticism.

Anonymous
>>4382694

I think you're making the right call on that. Thanks for posting it though, I believe. Proper labeling is key. I already know a few people I would love to share this particular one with.

Anonymous

I just started watching but have to say that "downloadable comment" is so delightfully cheesy I had a smile on my face as I internally groaned :)

Anonymous

Great video as usual Mark, and I'd love to see more stuff like this in the future. I certainly think this is fit for YouTube but it might also be a good fit for another, more-relaxed series like Game Maker's Playlist on Patreon. Either way keep up the awesome work!

Anonymous

I haven't played a zelda since ocarina. For the first few minutes I was really digging the video, but after so many different points and examples I though it was not quite as punchy as I would have liked. If it stuck to just the more interesting points and was shorter I'd dig it on the channel. (Oh and if you ever want help pronouncing Japanese names, hit me up. I live in Japan and speak Japanese.)

Anonymous

Personally I agree with your reasons for withholding it. It's a good video, but there are a lot of non-Zelda fans around! Thanks for asking us, "Hamish" ;)

Anonymous

I know it's not on topic, but I do have to say I love this community. This is the most patron participation I've seen for a creator and everyone is giving reasonable feedback on the topic. Keep it up everyone. Oh, and I heart you Markie.

Anonymous

Reading your post, it seems you already decided that you won't be sharing this on youtube :)

Anonymous

I was torn watching it between a bit of Zelda fatigue and feeling like it was a great analysis of the work. Posting it as an extra video rather than a full GMTK was probably the best shout!

Eric Brookfield

I appreciate this video a lot, but understand and empathize with your reasons for not releasing it. The soundtrack to this game is impeccable, and a lot of its quality comes from nuance. You explore those well in a way I found interesting, but less Zelda-happy fans might be turned off by. I'm glad this video exists and I think others would enjoy it too — maybe release it in a few months as a sort of bonus?

OSW Review

Currently I'm JONESING bad for more BOTW (I've cleared it but don't have the time to do all the Shrines) Re: Channel Quality: I get that you wouldn't want people coming across this video and taking this as the average quality of your chanel; although I counter that people know it doesn't say GMTK on it, so it'll be treated as such. This seems like it's perfect Patreon-exclusive content. How about use the series to drive a few more pledges? Re: Zelda fatigue; I don't think you should take people not wanting more of a particular topic in mind - we all have the option to not watch. For example, LGR does way too much Sims stuff (IMO) so I just don't watch those particular videos. Re: Gushing; I don't think you should be reluctant to release videos saying you love something - a) it's your honest opinion b) the internet needs more positivity and c) especially if it's high quality content grounded in facts. Re: Nintendo - I imagine you mean copyright CLAIM right, they didn't strike your channel?! BTW if you counter-claim it, Nintendo will blanket deny it, meaning you've to appeal it (leaving your channel open for a strike, which is much more serious). Of course you can appeal the strike, but I bet you really, really don't want to do that! So overall I say have it as Patreon exclusive things. BTW I'd listen to you talk Zelda for as long as you'll do it! Boss Keys is actually what got me to sign up to your Patreon!

Anonymous

You should definitely post this video. Music is an often overlooked and undervalued aspect of game design and your coverage fills that gap. Well done, and keep up the excellent quality of GMTK.

Anonymous

I actually call this fair game for GMTK. Games often time focus on nothing more than what you can blow up, or kill, or interact with in "fun" ways without much thought to theme or any other kind of emotional attachment. This video is a great example how Nintendo made their game a richer experience by emphasizing what the designers WANTED you to feel while playing the game. Part of the art form that is making video games should be about more than just what's fun or clever. The music and audio cues in BotW and their dynamic nature have an immersive quality that drive home the designer's intent. It puts you into an emotional state that drives up the player's incentive to play the game, and makes achieving the goals of the game that much more satisfying. Maybe you'll wind up alienating some non-zelda fans with this post, but what you'd lose is perhaps outweighed by what you'd gain by posting this video. You've presented very practical information about the use of music in games with this video, and it could start very meaningful conversations about the current state of sound design in the industry. Plus, as some other people have noted, it's not like anyone is forced to watch what you release. I want you to post this either as a bonus follow-up to your BotW video or as it's own stand alone GMTK video. Either way, putting it out there for the broader public to see would be beneficial for devs

mcwizardry

Great episode, definitely do more of these.

Josh Foreman

I feel you, as a fellow YT creator. But from the outside, I don't see this as lacking any quality that your regular videos have. There are fewer animated diagrams, but the subject matter doesn't call for that. Speaking of the subject matter: it is a BIT ancillary to design tools, but then, successful games WORK because they tie all the ancillary parts together, so I think it's valuable to analyse them and praise them when they are successful. I don't think Zelda fatigue is a big deal considering how much material is being generated around the franchise lately. It's par for the course.

Anonymous

Nice job Mark--love to see content about the music and sound design of games. Glad you published it!

Anonymous

I don't know how you should strategically release this type of content, but I was happy to watch it!

Ed White

One thing that wasn't in the video that I think is worth noting: the sparse music may have actually had practical design implications as well. This world is so vast, it takes 20 minutes to just get from location to location--let alone do anything--so it's hard to fill that much time without getting repetitive. Add the fact the world was designed to be scoured over by the player, you'll see that if you were trying to fill every moment with catchy, driving tunes, you'd soon end up annoying the player, no matter how big your soundtrack is. Also notice that the music only changes to being intense and noticeable during game states you shouldn't really stay in very long, such as a town or combat, so it's okay to be bolder there since there is less risk of exhausting the player. Really, it's a very savvy way to fill the time for a game so vast and so populated with multiplicative opportunities. Also, this video seems to have gone over really well on YouTube, so congrats for that. I guess you were worried over nothing :)

Anonymous

I think this was a great idea!

Anonymous

Fantastic video! I'm glad I played the Tarrey Town side-quest already however. I found that to be a BIT more spoilery than any of the content than in your previous video. Thanks for the video!

Anonymous

You could always just start another channel that just talks about Zelda all day.

Anonymous

Thank you Mark for making me ruin myself with tears by playing the Rito Village theme. I hadn't heard it because I had the sound off while playing and now that I know what it is, I become a hot mess whenever I want to talk to bird people.

Anonymous

Today was the day I thought "Screw it, I'm Patreon-ing (yeah it's a real verb, shhhh) Mark". Loved your vids and this music vid was the final push. I don't really patreon much either, you and Danny O'Dwyer are a club of 2 currently :D

Anonymous

Your videos are always a pleasure, but this one was particularly wonderful – really glad you made it. (It pushed me to finally become a patron!)

Anonymous
>>4529695

Also, pardon me if you've answered this elsewhere, but what tools do you generally use to create/annotate your videos? The audio equalizer used repeatedly in this episode was particularly gorgeous.