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How do you feel about recipes? (Patreon)

Published:
2022-11-09 12:48:02
Imported:
2023-02

Content

Getting a rare recipe can be extremely satisfying, while not having any weapons for days can also be very frustrating.
How do you feel about the recipe mechanics? Do you like it? Hate? Do you have any ideas on how to improve it?
Feel free to share.

Comments

MiniMegaHammer

I don't like them because most of the time its just a convoluted shop. You need to go to the city so unless its a very good item I mostly don't bother. And you have no means to specifically grind materials, so mostly I need to buy from the blacksmith. It doesn't help that a lot of the equipment are just bad.

Josephus

I know in the past certain recipes stayed between runs. I also know this was a bug. But, does it really matter if you have a permanent Knuckles recipe? I think making certain recipes permanent will help. Some very basic and maybe one or 2 high end as earned rewards.

Gerald Gantos

The recipes are pointless, and the crafting system means it's never worth making weapons. Maybe instead enemies should just drop the completed items occasionally, and the blacksmith should just sell a random selection of 2 or 3 items per day.

spacepups

I like the recipes right now, but that being said, the system could definitely be improved. Here are some ideas: - The recipe system is complicated because there are three primary factors coming into play that you need to balance. Gold drop, materials drop, and recipe drops. These three all need to be balanced in order for the recipe system to "feel" right. You'll always need to have a gold drop. However, you could always eliminate one of the others (materials for example) out of the loot pool and make it only accessible via the city. For example, you might have the loot pool be only gold and recipes, whereas materials are acquired by buying them at the shop in the city. Of course, you might have to increase the gold drop to balance this. Or, like others have mentioned you could make the current "event" recipe shop become a permanent fixture in the city. The event recipe shop is a little frustrating the way it is right now, however, and I would suggest removing some of the lower tier recipes out of the pool and upping the cost a little. You could even make Kira a preset visit place like the city instead of having to explore the dark woods for her. That way, you could have an avenue for recipes via the city, where you go to the shop and get a TRULY random recipe, or a definitive recipe shop at Kira's where you have a "clearer" chance of getting the recipe you want (with some chance of failure and at the cost of defeating a particular enemy multiple times). Either way, eliminating either the materials or the recipes from the loot drop pool would help reduce the amount of tweaking and adjusting you'll have to do to make sure the game is / feels balanced (which is especially important if you're considering adding more recipes or adding new content). Personally, I think increasing the gold drop slightly and removing materials from the loot pool is the simpler option. - Another idea is to have a definite drop after a certain number of victories. For example, there's a 20% chance of Mia dropping a Sword Recipe, but right now it's completely random. Even though there's a 20% chance of getting the recipe, you could still theoretically defeat her 10 times without getting it. I feel like after 5 times of defeating her the drop should be guaranteed. To combat making recipes too easy to farm / grind, you could always lower the probability (20% --> 15% for Mia for example) - @Rob mentioned that RNG is a GOOD thing. I 100% agree and think that whatever rework you do to the recipe / crafting system needs to ensure that the game still has variability to it. It can easily get boring without some RNG. Whenever I get a great recipe, immediately my focus becomes getting the materials / gold needed to craft it, and it significantly affects my strategy going into the castle. Without some RNG, there merely becomes a "meta" to play each update... where certain strategies will always yield great results. With RNG, you ensure that the player cannot rely on one single strategy and must deal with situations as they arise each run, and THIS keeps the game from getting monotonous. For this reason, I strongly disagree with some comments before me suggesting that recipes stay with you throughout your runs, and also that you should be able to buy any recipe you want from the shop. - @Gerald Gantos suggested random sales of 2-3 items per day in the city of recipes. I like this idea and would also say this is a viable alternative to making the system better. This ensures "some" RNG in that you'll have to spend / waste time every day to check what items are available in the shop that day, and that you may never be truly able to buy the recipe you want during a run. - Legendary recipes (like Lich's Grasp / Fallen Champion Sword / etc.) should be kept the way they are. Every time I get super-rare / legendary recipes, I'm almost always able to make my way through most (if not all) of the castle even early on through my grind. These recipes need to be kept rare, and they should NOT be saved through runs (you have to find them each run). Sorry for the extremely long post... This happens to be my favorite patreon project and I almost check every day for an update. Looking forward to seeing HC2 and any reworks / future updates you have for HC1!

diogaoo

This feedback is extremely valuable guys, it is not possible for me to reply to everyone individually, but you're all helping me a lot. Thank you so much for everyone's participation and especially for those who took the time to write how they really feel about the topic. It's great to have you all by my side ❤

Vincent

I agree that it shouldn't be 100% predictable, as that would take some of the joy from ''woo! found the item I wanted on an early day!''. At the same time, there is some frustration trying to farm a recipe for 8 days straight. This could make you fall behind on income and xp (if the recipe is in an early zone). A solution in-between other suggestions here, could be that once you have gotten the recipe once, you don't keep it, but it gets added to the rotation of a shop. So, if there are only 3 items on sale at any time, you still need to have found that item on a previous run for it to appear in the shop. Could also be done different for different items, as someone also suggested: - basic items are always available in the shop - more advanced items need to be unlocked before arriving in the shop - 'legendary' items never appear in the shop, but has to be found in each run. I also like the idea someone posted, that after you defeat a specific enemy x times (perhaps 5?) in a run, they are guaranteed to drop the recipe. Alternatively, defeating an enemy could increase the chance of loot on the next time you encounter the same enemy (in the same way the ''escape'' chance increases after failed attempts, if I remember that mechanic correctly. More exciting, could be to have some ''quests'' handed out by the shopkeeper, to unlock new recipes. Perhaps the shopkeeper heard of an exciting recipe that some enemy knows of....then you would have to do something to unlock it in the shop. Could be something cool, or something as simple as ''kill Amy 50 times'', persisting across runs. Other suggestions: - Get defeated by an enemy a number of times, to ''infiltrate'' their lair, and search through their stuff? - The hero need to ''wait'' x times in a single battle with that enemy, spending the free time, searching through the combat area while taking hits unprotected. This could be, for example, 10 ''waits''. - A different version of the previous point: Having an active 'quest', activates a ''search'' button in combat with relevant enemy. This would basically do the same as ''wait'', but not restore stamina, and also not lust/hp from perks related to waiting-in-combat. It could even cost stamina to perform a 'search' - The hero would need to sneak into the house of the enemy at night, and attempt searching for the recipe while the enemy is sleeping. When a quest is active, after 22:00 (when the only option normally would be 'sleep'). Arriving at the house, the player would have to search the house. Could be simply clicking ''search'', which would cost some stamina (after all, you're tired in the middle of the night), add an hour to the time, have a chance of finding the recipe, and an (increasing) chance of waking up the enemy, and getting ambushed. If you mess up and keep searching after 06:00, the enemy has a very high chance of waking up, and you get attacked. Running out of stamina while searching makes the hero fall asleep...in the enemies house... well, that can't be good... A different type of experience, could be that you have a chance (for example 20%) of finding the full recipe when defeating the enemy. But, you could also have a 2% chance of finding a 'fragment of recipe' instead. Find x number of fragments, and you can hand it in to the shopkeeper, and it will be added to the store's rotation.

mckig

I've read some of the options, and the shop selling a rotation of recipes daily/at a cost is one of my favorites. One extra thought I had and I think diogaoo mentioned a while ago is an upgrade system for basic items using relevant materials. This could mean the basic items would lose their recipes and be bought with coins. Rare and Legendary recipes still have recipes and require materials to make, staying completely unchanged. But I agree, there are a ton of good ideas and I would be happy to tinker around with some of these concepts if you wanted to move forward with any of them and see how they would work.

Vincent
>>95453087

The upgrade concept could be nice! Random thought to spin further on upgrades: There is the heroine/hero's guild in town, that hands out the mission to hunt down some enemy. This concept could be expanded so that there are several guilds, and they may approach you during the game. Perhaps you could rise in their ranks by staying in the same guild, and doing quests for them (such as the 'kill an enemy' quest), and doing so would unlock benefits. One benefit could be access to better upgrades for weapons. Maybe the assassins guild would have something with crit chances or poision, the thieves guild...perhaps better loot? Warriors guild: more base attack on weapons, or a block chance? Alchemists guild: Chance to get potions from loot? Or possibility to upgrade potions? Perhaps combining a red+purple potion to a blue? Probably lots of possibilities with something like that

Anonymous

how about some type of trade in system, where you still have to initially get the recipe to drop, then craft a certain number (my initial thoughts are either 3 or 5) in that run and trade them in to the shopkeeper to permanently unlock the recipe across runs. This would give players alternative objectives for runs and expand a little bit on the roguelike elements currently present.

spacepups
>>95441778

I love the "sneaking into the house" idea. That sounds like a lot of fun with a chance for more bad ends from characters we already love!

mckig

Another idea for recipes: Allow a slot for a recipe to be preserved in a run. This would be recovered later on in whatever form seems the best. Only common recipes can be saved. For example, maybe the player saves the Hammer recipe for the next run. Maybe the shop sells it at a ridiculous price (400 gold). And this could be a fixed price or variable depending on the item. Or maybe the saved recipe can be in the Forest chest random event instead of the Knuckles recipe every time (defaults to Knuckles if nothing is preserved). The important part is somehow preserving ONE recipe from one run to another. It can be free, brutally expensive, a points reward...

Vincent
>>95961103

Could work well as an addition to the bank in the Hills, perhaps. Similar to the bank deposit, you could rent a bank-box for storing one recipe.

NotSure117

Random thought I had -- is there any way to make travel more direct? Finding the Deep Forest shack, the Hills bank, and even sometimes the Talisman enemy can be difficult due to bad luck. Is there any way we could maybe spend some amount of stamina to guarantee finding the enemy/location of choice? For combat it would put you at a starting disadvantage, and in general would take up precious time, but could be used to avoid spending 2-3 full days hoping to luck out.