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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 363 | Moriarty x Jaffe: Total Chaos (Video) (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-20 17:01:00
Edited:
2024-01-24 12:46:54
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Moriarty x Jaffe: Total Chaos | Sacred Symbols+, Episode 363

A new year brings new possibilities... like a fresh Sacred+ episode of Moriarty x Jaffe! Today, I (Colin) welcome storied (not legendary) game designer David Jaffe back to + for a multifaceted conversation both serious and completely nonsensical. We touch on some poignant topics: The general state of our industry here in 2024, the controversy over AI art, rumors of some Xbox games coming to PlayStation, the cancellation of The Last of Us Online, alarms about slowing subscription models and the wariness of big publishers and developers to participate, and so much more. Also: Unprompted phallic discussions of a somewhat grotesque variety. We hope you enjoy the sheer chaos, and know most of you wouldn't have it any other way.

Comments

Anonymous

Hey guys, I'm guessing Colin is too busy to read this, but for everyone else: I LOVED habroxia 1/2, and I really want another game to play that has that kind of shooter or twin stick shooting, kinda rogue lite, but the most important thing is lots of meta progression. Not like dead cells, but rogue legacy 1/2, children of morta,... I mean health, strength, critical hits, etc. I'm hoping for switch titles but I'll accept ps4 and pc. I'll take metroidvania games that are rogue lites, but I really, really want a bunch of meta upgrades. (ruins of T.. Something on switch come to mind.) Thanks In advance. Cheers.

nicholas

Hey, Jaffe. Wanted to shout out your sense of humility. You are a legend as far as I am concerned. I am one of the folks who is like "Oh heck, Jaffe is on? I gotta click that one." That said, Colin is it possible you were thinking along the lines of AI just not being able to create something truly new? It's well understood that all art is derivative to some extent. Society draws a totally suggestive, arbitrary line around how much a work can be derivative and we call it plagiarism. I think maybe that's the thrust of your argument. AI in many cases, and perhaps inherently, crosses the lines that we set for humans by using other works to construct new ones and leaving DNA from its inspirations behind. In the arts we are agree plagiarism is wrong. If AI can only construct from other works to create new works, and it does not restrain itself in the vague way that humans agree to restrain themselves when being creative, is it not inherently always plagiarizing? I think so. I also think humans plagiarize all the time, and the way we check it is through social pressure primarily. And I think that is how we have to check AI going forward.

Yalingo

I agree with Jaffe for the most part about AI creation, but the problem I see with these companies moving towards AI is that if the tools get good enough and easy enough to use, why would I buy your product you made with AI when I could just input the same or tweaked and personalised prompts into the AI and cut you out of the loop. They're so short sighted and don't even understand what they're messing with, but I can't help but delight in the irony of the #learntocode crowd being replaced before us manual labourers. #learntodriveatruck dipshits 👍

Dan P
>>127613149

To answer your first part about buying something you can make yourself - that's totally fair. Even right now, a person selling something needs to give every reason and more to earn a customer's money. If AI raises the floor such that, you as a layman can compete, they don't deserve your money. However, the other side is that, you won't make something just as good, probably not. A skilled human intelligence artist using AI should theoretically always produce something better than just an average person trying to do it. The artistic experience will always be a + on the result. Also, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you will, it still takes time to sit down at a computer and think of a prompt and type it out. Like, how hard is it to cook your own meals? Everyone has a kitchen, so why is Uber eats thriving. However yes, it will cut a large part of the market out and those artists need to adapt or die, that's fair.

RoughSlpr

I also don't believe in free will but most humans need to feel as if they're accomplishing tasks to feel fulfilled in our lives. As religion becomes less and less important and jobs become further automated you're seeing the rise in depression and lack of meaning. That is the ultimate danger of AI imo

Pyo

this should be really good!!! WOOO

The Funky Monk (edited)

Comment edits

2024-01-23 00:03:35 This is such a fascinating conversation (the AI discussion). I'm on Colin's side, but I can see the despair on his face while Jaffe presents his side. And the despair is because Jaffe is being entirely rational but it's heartbreaking.
2024-01-23 00:03:05 This is such a fascinating conversation (the AI discussion). I'm on Colin's side, but I can see the despair on his face while Jaffe presents his side. And the despair is because Jaffe is being entirely rational but the reality is heartbreaking.

This is such a fascinating conversation (the AI discussion). I'm on Colin's side, but I can see the despair on his face while Jaffe presents his side. And the despair is because Jaffe is being entirely rational but the reality is heartbreaking.

warren chue

I always look forward to the podcast when Mr Jaffe joins Colin. They make a great team! I vote for more Jaffe

DirtyInverty

Sometimes when I have a conversation similar to your A.I. conversation here, there is one big difference I've noticed between the way I am thinking about the subject vs. the way the other person is thinking about the subject. The other person is talking about the subject as a matter of fact (as in they TRULY believe it), whereas I am talking about the subject more as a thought experiment. I am deeply thinking about the idea, but I don't ACTUALLY believe the possible conclusions I am coming up with.

The Lizard King

Totally disagree with Jaffe regarding AI. I like the idea in terms of games adjusting in the fly in some circumstances but as for creation, writing etc that deserves to be romanticised. The ‘Aha’ moment will never come in the way Jaffe is currently writing.

DoubleDave

I'm late to the party on this one but this was probably the best conversation on AI I've listened to. Granted I usually skip those arguments, but this one was great. Loved the discourse.