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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 241 | Revisiting The Last of Us: Part II (Video) (Patreon)

Published:
2022-11-12 17:01:02
Imported:
2023-01

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Revisiting The Last of Us: Part II | Sacred Symbols+, Episode 241

For more than two years, the conversation surrounding Naughty Dog's PS4-exclusive The Last of Us: Part II has largely been toxic, unenjoyable, and regrettable. Yet, we here on Sacred Symbols have tried to put out constructive and worthwhile conversation around the game, specifically back in its launch year of 2020 when we (for the first and only time) did two review discussions and spoilercasts for it. With our coordinator and shopkeep Micah having recently played it for the first time, we thought it would be a great time to sit down once more and -- with renewed vigor! -- examine the game through a critical lens. And so, we present to you a third conversation dedicated to The Last of Us: Part II, our first in more than two years.

Comments

Dylan Manuszak

It seems like you're taking criticism for this game and boiling it down to bigotry. People like SkillUp had legitimate criticism for this game and barely talked about the story. I kind of expected more from you.

JoshM

There's something super interesting about TLOU2 and no matter how divisive it is, I really think there's a lot to celebrate about the game, and I almost feel like a lot of the critiques almost play into the themes of the story - like how long it is for example, maybe the game is *too* long, but maybe that's the point, because it's intentionally trying to make the player want it to be over and done with; we're supposed to want the best for the characters. Either way, whilst it's not my personal favourite game of all time, I totally get why Colin thinks this is one of, if not PlayStation's best - I can't name another game that's put together the way this one is narratively speaking. Certainly a very unique game and shows well how expansive games can be when it comes to how they tell their narratives. Enjoyed this talk, was super interesting to hear this discussion!

LastStandMedia
>>95677998

This comment is a wonderful reminder of why I hate talking about this game, so thanks for that.

Dylan Manuszak
>>95677998

Do you expect all your patrons to agree with everything? Anyone that doesn't is an asshole?

bix hutch

This reaffirmed why I'm not interested in playing this. Yes, Colin is right about many of those choices and story beats being great writing and storytelling. But video games work much differently then a movie or a book. Playing the game is in some way not only putting you in control of that character but somewhat making you be that character. I simply do not want to play as Abby. I have no interest in you making me sympathize with her, making me not sympathize for Joel or so on. I'm sorry but it's a big no for me. When movies do these kind of things it's just a different medium. Not only do you not want control of this person but movies last at most 3 hours usually, not fucking 30. Making me slog through something I simply am not interested in doing for so long is just bad VIDEO GAME design. 30 hours is also fucken way overboard for this type of game. Micah seemed to be in the same spot of so many others I've heard. Even at it's most positive people just don't want anymore of this story which bares very poorly for this being a continued franchise. When you try something really different this is almost always the end result. Some will love it and some will hate it. I've been open to hearing something to change my mind but it was actually listening to Colins take aways that made me give it another hard no, not Micahs.

Chuck Rude

After replaying the story of Part I, I think one of the biggest differences between one and two is subtlety. They don’t need to say it or have a sex scene to tell us that Joel and Tess are involved, Tess doesn’t need to look like linebacker in order to tell us she’s a badass, there doesn’t need to be yelling in order to show conflict between Ellie and Joel, there doesn’t need to be giant blood ritual slaughter or a cult mural to show that an antagonist group has a big religious element to it, there doesn’t need to be “fuck fedra” graffiti every 100 yards to show there’s a clear animosity toward an incompetent government, they don’t need to have a weed and sex scene in the first hour to have a character rebel or show their interest in a person, or have unnecessary sex scenes at all, there’s so many tiny details that tell you a lot without ever saying it. You can totally look over or miss them, whereas part two kinda beats you over the head with everything. And even the endings, part one leaves you in a mixed feelings state and then you are the judge of how you feel about the actions at the end. All reactions you have can be defended because they it’s genuinely really grey, then part two basically puts a monocle up to its eye and “oh hoo hooo, revenge isn’t actually good and that’s the only answer here!” Not caring that you’ve killed hundreds of people, many more innocent, just to get to Abby. It just doesn’t make any logical sense. I also just disagree with that theme. All kinds of movies and such stories have that idea that revenge isn’t worth it, but I wonder how many of those writers have actually felt revenge. It doesn’t change things that have happened, that’s extremely obvious, does anyone actually think that?? But revenge feels great. And it bothers me when writers pretend that it doesn’t, I simply don’t believe those who wrote this have ever had that feeling in any consequential way. Part 2 is a great game. I think it frustrates people when a great game could have been even greater with just a few small changes, which adds to the odd divisive nature of this game.

Chuck Rude
>>95754353

Waned to leave some positives. The Lev story was subtle and something in me just appreciates that a lot more. The seraphites were super interesting, there were a lot of very creative ideas implemented, combat was amazing. Really liked this episode and hearing Micah’s perspectives. I respect and like Colin’s as well, and it is such a very top tier quality game, they’re just not new to me like Micah’s. Thanks for the content <3

Sam
>>95754353

I think you make a lot of good points. And yes, the vitriol is extra strong because this game comes off the back of one of the most universally beloved games of all time. People wouldn't hate part 2 so much if part 1 hadn't been so good. I think it should be noted that Bruce Straley co-directed the first game and left before part 2. For me it's clear he was a much needed barrier to Druckmann and balanced him out so that the first game could retain its subtelty and wide appeal.

Birdo64

Thought the episode was great! One of the best video games of all time. Thanks Colin and Micah

Halph Pint

Great episode...at the end of Part II they Abby and Lev wind up on Catalina, which I assume is where the remnants of the Fire Files are....I think third game would be some kind of a redemption arc for Ellie and ultimately sacrificing herself for a potential cure.

Rameen

I’m late to this, but always good to hear Colin talk so passionately about TLOU. I also bawled my eyes out at the porch scene. It’s super sad and I love how it completely recontextualizes the story and Ellie’s motivations within the last few minutes of the game.

Kaz Redclaw

I never faulted Joel for saving Ellie, because if you searched through all of the firefly notes in that last level, you find out the whole thing was a long shot. It wasn't the least bit a guarantee that carving up Ellie would lead to a cure. They were just stabbing in the dark to try and gain clout for their movement. There was a TON of things they could have tried before they go nuclear by killing her, and they were too impatient to bother doing the hard research. The fireflies are scum. Of course, almost every other faction is scum too. This is all from the first game though, I've never played the second one because of the hamfisted way they did the sequel hook in the first game. I found that to be entirely inept.

Kaz Redclaw
>>96761579

(They very well could have been destroying a chance at a cure by hopping straight to murder instead of doing experiments first.)

Taylor kazemba

I think Abby was ment to be trans and they changed it. Her hands are huge for a “woman”.

Taylor kazemba

Trans people would not exist in this space. They don’t event really exist in third world countries. There are no trans people in tribes in Africa. No way when fighting for survival in that world would there be trans people.