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Sacred Symbols+, Episode VIII: Elevating Ellie (Patreon)

Published:
2019-09-27 16:01:02
Edited:
2019-09-30 00:27:01
Imported:
2022-01

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Content

Colin's Last Stand's completely unintentional (yet still expertly-timed) The Last of Us Week concludes with an episode of Sacred Symbols+ all about The Last of Us: Part II. Over the past few days, a deluge of information concerning the eagerly-awaited sequel has been released, including the game's release date, myriad hands-on impressions, lots of new dev interviews, and much more. Yet, fans of all things Joel and Ellie want more, and we now have plenty of information from which to speculate. So let's do just that, with some two dozen of your own questions, comments, concerns, thoughts, and ideas structuring the conversation. With Joel fading to the background and Ellie truly becoming the star of the show, it's safe to assume we're going to receive an adventure that's going to thoroughly surprise us. It only makes sense to be excited... and perhaps just a tad bit skeptical, too.

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Comments

Anonymous

Downloading now. I can't wait to hear this episode. Your Knockback episode, SS and now SS+ about The Last of Us has made my otherwise stressful work week tolerable. Thank you to everyone at Colins Last Stand (Colin, Dagan, Chris, Etc.)

Dave Carsley

When they first showed the trailer fading to black with the sound of a gunshot, I figured they were trying way too hard to make you THINK it was Dina that got killed, but that it was actually probably Joel's death that puts Ellie on this revenge quest, and that the scene where he grabs her from behind was just an earlier scene cut in to present an illusion. But after watching hands-on impressions (specifically from Easy Allies), it seems to be confirmed that Ellie truly is already on this revenge quest to avenge someone's death (although we're not certain it's Dina's) when she encounters Joel-- who has been raising hell in the settlement she's in while trying to catch up to her. So although he may die in the course of the game, it's definitely not his death that's the catalyst for her journey. I suppose Naughty Dog could have created fake gameplay, dialog, and cutscenes to throw the media off the real story, but I highly doubt it. That seems like way too much work at a critical crunch time. P.S. We did encounter Stalkers in the first game, they just weren't all that different than the runners (just a bit smarter), and the dev team didn't do much with them. I'm glad to see them flesh them out in Part 2.

Anonymous

I'm media blackout for tlou. I wanna listen to this, but I don't want to know anything about the game. I hate myself.

Sumojoe118

Colin if you want a better idea of how open the last of us 2 will be you should play Uncharted The Lost Legacy. There is a chapter of the game that is basically a small open world where you can complete objectives and story sequences in whatever order you want. This part of the game takes about 2-3 hours to complete. I think we will see this kind of thing heavily expanded upon in part 2.

Elijah VanderSande

Just wanted to add a quick correction, the stalker infected were actually the first game, when you were playing as Joel in the basement of the hotel, many of the infected chasing you were stalkers, as well as when you were in the sewer with Henry and Sam. These infected were unique because they would hide and wait for you around corners and ambush you instead of just rushing you mindlessly like the other infected, but the game didn’t capitalize on their uniqueness too much, as they were only featured in a few short segments. This makes me more excited for Part 2 because I really wanted to play against a more intelligent infected type in the first game, I’m excited to see more of them!

Dave Carsley

I've been wanting to mention this for quite some time, but haven't wanted it to be taken the wrong way. I think Colin needs to perhaps understand that when he looks at game-length, he is [unavoidably and understandably] looking at it through the specific lens of being a part of the games media. This naturally requires that, once started, he makes finishing these titles something of a priority in his life; he needs to be in "the know"; he needs to be part of the conversation while it's happening; he needs to move on to the next game. To a certain extent, this applies not only to Colin, but to this whole audience (including myself) as well. Keep in mind that we -- the folks who fill our free time with gaming podcasts, websites, documentaries, conventions, etc. -- are the "hardcore". We are the people who will buy a game and sit down with it every single night after work for 5 or 6 hours (or 12+ hours on a weekend) until we finish it. But remember, we're only a few tens-of-thousands of people in a pool of tens of millions who buy and play games. The vast majority of those people want as much value as possible for their $60. This is of course not to say that a longer game is inherently more "valuable". We all know that when a game, for instance, locks off the continuation of the story behind a level gate and forces the player to engage in hours of absolutely pointless fetching and tower-climbing just to advance to the next story beat, it does not serve to make the game better. That being said, *if* a story remains consistently gripping and emotionally satisfying, I'd wager that a significant majority of players would prefer it to be, say, 40 hours instead of 15 (again, that's IF it's good enough to keep them engaged). I don't think most of the game-buying public sees a story based game as something to be conquered or "beat", but rather as something to be enjoyed for a few hours once or twice a week until concluded... and they greatly appreciate the extended entertainment. I'm not AT ALL saying Colin's perspective is invalid or wrong. It's perfectly valid! He, like anyone else, simply looks at these things through the lens of his own life and experiences. I'm just saying that his lens, his experience, is likely not the same as most consumers. Most folks look at a lengthy video game the way they might look at eight seasons of Game of Thrones, or an unusually thick novel. Not as, "Oh no. I have to watch all eight seasons of this just to get to the end? That's way too daunting!", but more like, "Wow! I have so much to enjoy over the next couple of months! I can't wait!" Hopefully that makes sense.

Jimmy Champane

I am dreading how a game this violent is going to be covered by sites that consistently miss the forest for the trees when writing about any piece of horror media. I cover the genre on my YouTube channel and whenever one breaks into the main stream, the conversation shifts from talking about the actual piece of media to whatever dumb controversy the hate-click generating sites can come up with. This year I’ve seen Polygon whine about the gore in Stranger Things 3 and in the case of IT: Chapter 2, multiple articles on whether or not a gay character should have died on screen like they did in the source material. The same things happen in video games too. When Resident Evil 2 Remake came out I saw countless articles like "We pUt a SpEeDo on mR X" instead of genuine critiques or examinations of what makes him such an iconic villain. The Knockback episode on it was awesome, though. Naughty Dog is my favorite developer because they DON’T give you choices to make. They stick to their guns and tell the story they want to tell. We get the privilege to experience that story. P.S. - I still have my copy of The Last of Us you signed for me at Beyond! 300. Wild how much has changed since then!

Devon McCarty

Great episode! I know it'll never happen, but it would be awesome to have skins from Hugh Jackman's Logan in this. Perfect fit. #GiveEllieClaws

Dustin Shaneyfelt

Haven't listened yet because I haven't played Left Behind yet, and I don't want to have it spoiled. Does anyone know if he gets into that on this podcast?

hugplx

I wonder if the 2 blu ray discs themselves are a red herring. Imagine if our actions completely altered how the story went. Whether going full murderhobo or Solid Snake makes a difference, and thus there's a not insignificant part of the story we won't see in one playthrough. I know you want it to be super focused, but if it's done in their polish, I think this could be hype af.

Mr Worry

I really wanted to hold out to replay the game till closer to release of 2nd. But after this week I'm downloading it now. Plat time

JD

It has been confirmed that the 2 disc is only in the special edition and the 2nd disc is for the soundtrack.

Kyle Day

Great episode. So looking forward to this game. One question that didn’t get on the podcast. How confident is everyone (Colin) that the game will hit the 2/21/20 date? Given naughty dogs recent history with uncharted 4 specifically and the slight delay on the original, I’d say a delay is likely. However, this games rollout seems more deliberate and planned out. So basically who knows 🤷‍♂️

Anonymous

Okay, I really have to ask because I know how much Colin is looking forward to The Last of Us part II. Is there any way in which we can get an episode of Sacred Symbols+ featuring Dagon for this game? A Spoilercast perhaps? Maybe a roundtable discussion with Sophia as well if all parties are comfortable with it? Maybe peer pressure Chris to join? Come on Chris, I know you wanna be a part of a Last of Us part II talk. You know it...

Corey Adams

I’m very interested to hear your thoughts on the multiplayer, or lack thereof, in Part 2. There are so many vagaries within this universe

Kenneth Oms

The only demo trailer I watched, which was enough, was Neil and his team talking about the demo and things that changed gameplay wise. They showed a little gameplay but it wasn’t too much it was perfect

Kenneth Oms
>>27275699

I was about to write this haha! The stalkers were terrifying in last of us 1

Ryan B.

Hey Colin, I appreciate the content as always, but I think you might be a little off concerning potential spoilers for Naughty Dog games generally. I remember, in the lead up to Uncharted 3 which was advertised heavily (even in movie theaters at the time), that virtually every set piece was spoiled by public adverts. The fire at the chateau, the sinking ship, and the airplane/desert wandering sequences were all featured heavily- to the extent that nothing was dramatic as I played the game save for a few narrative plot points. All this to say, I don't trust the Sony machine when it comes to these things and I'd be genuinely surprised if much of the Last of Us Part II isn't spoiled by February of next year. Being that I'm in graduate school and that is my last semester, when my thesis is due, I'll probably have to wait until Summer to play and thus remaining naive to the end might become damn near impossible.

Marcus Brown

Can't wait for this game. Although I disagree with the length preference for I love the slow burn but respect your opinion. I will say this though, I feel the revenge aspect may be the result of the death of Joel. I hope they don't do it but if anything this world has taught us is prepare for the worse.

LastStandMedia
>>27271826

I just feel like anything we think is obvious or not obvious or whatever is intentionally telegraphed. I really don't feel like we even have enough information (or will we) to know what the revenge mission really is.

LastStandMedia
>>27272051

That's on the list. I was so underwhelmed by Uncharted 4 in hindsight, the more it sat with me, that I was never all that eager to play Lost Legacy. But I will.

LastStandMedia
>>27277022

Well, like you said, I have no real choice but to look at things through my own lens. That's the only valid perspective I can provide. But I think you're overestimating how many people want to finish these long games, and all you have to do is look at Trophy percentages to see. You will seldom find a game with anywhere close to a 50% completion rating, and that number plummets the bigger a game is.

LastStandMedia
>>27281167

I think Naughty Dog is uniquely positioned to weather any controversy about the game, and they're obviously telegraphing the game's extreme violence -- without reservation -- in their trailers. This game is gonna be gigantic, and I don't think any media narrative will strip it of likely being PS4's single biggest exclusive, when the dust settles.

LastStandMedia
>>27291657

They'll hit it. They wouldn't have announced it less than six months out if they weren't. I'm confident.

LastStandMedia
>>27292829

I'm sure we'll do an episode of KnockBack on TLoU 2 at some point in the future, and we just did one on the regular game. But I don't know what Dagan would necessarily add to what we've already done, at this point.

LastStandMedia
>>27309912

Perhaps, but Uncharted doesn't hinge on its story, and that game's large narrative moments weren't spoiled at all.

Anonymous

I think this game will pull a big plot twist , something no one will guess ?,

Anonymous

like Ellie dying and you play on as Joel to get revenge ??

GabrieleEU

Just a little note: we did see stalkers in the first game. They were only used twice, in the hotel basement and when Joel was with Sam in the sewers. They were in the more horror sections, both when Ellie and Joel got split, yet another intresting piece of "storytelling through gameplay" from Naughty Dog.

Jonathan Perez

Hey guys if ya want a little more reading on the number of ways a card deck can be shuffle check this blog post out ( https://czep.net/weblog/52cards.html ). There is also a great video on youtube by vsauce which you can find by searching 52 factorial. Not related to The Last of Us I know but a mind blowing little fact nonetheless.

Anonymous

The older I got and the more games I play, I totally understand what Colin is saying about game length. Open world has become such a trend in games where this is so much empty “bloat” just for filler. Especially when we as gamers are so spoiled from the vast amount of games and selections, it’s very easy to be turned off just by the overwhelming empty landscapes. Only so little games do open world right including GTA, RDR, Horizon, Witcher. TLOU was a perfect length in my opinion, but anything over 15 hours is a bit much. I never really understood some gamers saying a ten hour game isn’t worth $60. RE2 remake was easily worth the full price purchase. The quality of game is ALWAYS better than the quantity. Look at Assassin’s Creed franchise for example. Every single game is full of bullshit filler. The last good traditional game was Unity (after it got fixed).

Anonymous

The PS Blog article New The Last of Us Part II Gameplay Details Revealed also revealed a pretty significant story beat. I'm sure it happens pretty early as it appears to be partially/entirely the reason for the revenge train. Won't mention it here, but just a heads up that info is out there.

LastStandMedia
>>27371937

The beauty of the market is that there's a place for everything. That said, with the latent nature of development, we're getting so many long, bloated, and frankly boring-as-fuck games that prioritize length over content, which sucks. Three-Fourths Home is less than a half an hour long, and is a hell of a lot better than Rage 2.

Luke Bernhard

About the gameplay runtime - I don't understand why you want "less" game. Yeah - red dead was way too much story. Took me about 85 just for the 6 chapters because you get fucking lost in it. But I think a 30 hour massive beautiful experience would be perfect. Days gone was way too long as well, but I think this will definitely be a linear experience. I never thought once during any naughty dog game how long I was playing it, and I think that they will do a splendid job pacing a 30 hour experience in TLOU universe.

Nathan Cermak

Thanks for answering my question Colin. I’m hoping for a game that takes about the same amount of time as Spider-Man did. Horizon has also been moved to next in line after BL3! :)

Sean Hogan

Great episode, Colin! Wonderful to get back into the world of Last of Us on the road to the sequel

Cillian O Connell

This was a fantastic episode Colin thank you. Really reminded me of the great spoilercasts you did on Beyond and why the Last of Us is one of my favourite games. Brought back fantastic memories of playing it. Haven't played it since 2014 so I think I'm overdue a replay.

LastStandMedia
>>27476873

The equation cannot be hours = quality, or hours = time well spent. I simply cannot subscribe to that.