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Fireside Chats, Episode 91: Teaching America's Youth (Patreon)

Published:
2019-05-29 16:00:04
Imported:
2022-01

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The American education system is pretty unique, especially compared to the rest of the modern world. Instead of having a totally top-down governmental approach, schools in the United States are left largely to the whims of state and local bureaucrats, and the outcomes are as varied as they are fascinating. One such teacher in one of America's thousands of school districts is today's guest, David. David's a middle school history teacher, and I got to pick his brain for about an hour about what he does specifically, but also about the state of America's schools more broadly. What are kids learning? How are teachers teaching? And in what ways do we get it right or need to improve? Eyes front, class. Let's learn something.

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Comments

David Graham

Being myself an education major, I have a particular interest in this episode. Really cool, and what are the odds that his name would be David?!

Keith W

Relevant to the discussion: The Case against Education by Bryan Caplan. College in mostly a signaling tool that one is capable of conformity, doing work and showing up, not a vehicle for gaining useful knowledge. One can learn needed knowledge far more efficiently using the internet than they can going to school. The sooner we accept that school is an inefficient waste of money and retool our efforts to educating ourselves in a better way, the better off we will be.

BM

Great podcast. If I could give any advice to a teacher as a high school drop out, it would be the following: kids need to know how important being able to write is (business writing) and how amazing trades jobs are (I'm corporate).

Joey Rawlings

Wife is a teacher and I hear the same thing about hanging 2-3 months off - my defensive reply is “Imagine crunching a 12 month job into 10 months. That’s teaching.” Then they seem to get it.

Daniel Boyer

Great episode. I myself am a teacher of ten years. (high school math in Ohio) My summer starts next week! I don't feel guilty taking that time off as this is a very demanding job both emotionally and in terms of time spent. As I am sure Colin can relate, it is a job where nothing ever feels complete. There is always more I could be doing and shutting that down to take time for myself is easier said that done.

LastStandMedia
>>23178863

I somewhat agree. I think I was among the last generation of kids that got a "real" college education, frankly. Smart phones didn't exist, you went on the Internet on your laptop, we used AIM... it was a different Internet. And so we were more grounded in reality, for lack of a better term. You're right: College has ALWAYS been about that. My mom taught in college and said the same thing for years; it's about showing you can begin something, do something, and finish something. So yes... we need to change.

LastStandMedia
>>23181597

I was (and still kinda am) always surprised how naturally writing came to me, and how hard it was (and is!) for other people. It starts with showing how important reading is.

LastStandMedia
>>23182201

I'm sympathetic to the argument. I see how hard my sisters, my brother-in-law, my sister-in-law, and my cousin work (all public school teachers; my brother-in-law is a principal). But the fact remains, lots of us fit 12 months of work into 10 months. I guarantee you I work longer hours than your average teacher, and I do it all year. (I also get paid a lot more, so I'm not complaining.) I guess my point is, teachers shouldn't be defensive about it. They get a fourth of the year off, and that's a perk of the job. But it's also reality: Weekends and three months off every year is baked into the cake. Teachers aren't uniquely overworked or uniquely tired, but they do get the unique benefit of getting three months in a row off every summer.

LastStandMedia
>>23182975

Totally. Math! I don't envy you. It must be hard to get kids to care. But it's such an essential subject.

Andrew Collins

Excited to listen to this! I am a history teacher in Canada! (Colin, i also went to school for history with dreams.of being a historian....ooof) I respect the hell out of teachers in America. As far as i understand it it is a hard, thankless job. Its similar in Canada but i am paid fairly well for my work, which makes it a bit more palatable IMO. So all you American teachers: keep on keeping on, the future of your country needs dedicated educators like yourselves!!!

Anonymous

This was a good episode and David, you did a great job. I have some thoughts. When you mentioned the school tracking in Europe, my ears perked up and I noticed you said that if you go the 'dumb school', you can still go to college but have to pay, whereas the ones who went to 'smart school' go for free. You specifically mentioned this in the context of German exchange students, but I absolutely know this isn't the case in Germany. Lower tiered students can do well and move up, get their diploma and then go to college for free, but there is no way to pay your way without having the the prerequisite education. As far as other European countries, I'm slightly familiar with France and I'm positive the system is very similar. Now it could be the case for others and I'm trying to do some research, but it just doesn't quite line up with what I know in general about the education system here. I'd also like to mention one other thing, I suppose as a defense of this European school track system. A lot of it is based on teacher evaluation and not test scores - or God forbid a single standardized test. (Not to shamelessly plug the episode of Fireside Chats I had the honor of doing with Colin, but this is also something we touched on) Anecdotally, my SO was recommended for the lowest tier track because she wasn't doing well as a foreigner in elementary school. Well, somewhere in 8th or 9th grade, she committed to really working hard in class, turning her grades around, petitioned her teachers and after only a few months she was accepted into the school where I eventually met her (and is now studying to become a teacher, funnily enough.) This was ultimately based on her teachers and principle seeing her progress and making a recommendation. One other thing to mention here is that about half of your grade for every class is teacher-evaluated participation grades. How well you pay attention, answer questions, do homework, etc. Many of my friends also moved up the 'track' and are now getting degrees. A few others realized it wasn't really for them, left early and went to trade school, since that was always an option that was not only presented, but actively recommended as a viable alternative. The system isn't as rigid as I had maybe made it same in the episode I did, or like many seem to think it is. Also anecdotally, my sister is currently attending US high school in a good area of Florida. She's a smart kid and has a unique perspective because she also attended German elementary and middle school before moving back to the States. I really love the school spirit they have and we absolutely get one thing right in the States: the school programs, sports, theater, extracurriculars and the like are so much better, but the baseline knowledge of an average graduating high schooler just isn't on the same level. Something I also agree with, college research programs are also extremely strong in the US and a large reason why we have so many top tier colleges. But I just don't know about the secondary education. My sister is breezing through 10th grade AP math because it was the same math that she learned in 8th grade German school. I could talk for hours about this topic and I'm really glad there are more and more perspectives accumulating on Fireside Chats. Truly a fascinating subject.

LastStandMedia
>>23191618

It all depends on where you live, and the laws in your state. New York teachers aren't hurting, I can promise you that!

Marcus Brown

You're not nuts, you were great and there's nothing wrong with your voice lol Great episode as always Col, till next time.

Chad Lewis

Great show! You guys nailed this topic

Chad Lewis

This. 1000x this.

Zach Brown

I love to see how many of the patrons of this show are teachers and have so quickly listened to the episode and responded here. I, myself, and finishing up my fifteenth year of teaching high school English and theatre in the suburbs outside of Philadelphia, and I love hearing the stories of others in my profession, especially from other areas of the country. I’m really pleased that, right off the bat, David defended our country’s standing in the world (literally) of secondary education. This is not necessarily saying that our system is better or worse than those of Europe or any place else around the world, but comparing our scores with those of foreign nations really is apples to oranges. For the most part, other countries around the world do not educate, assess, and compile all of the scores of ALL of their young citizens, and that needs to be kept in mind when comparing where our educational system falls on a global level. If you only tested and compared the best of the United States’ traditional students, the headlines would be much different. Fantastic Fireside Chat.

Michal Dudic

A fantastic episode. But I think an extra 20-30 minutes would serve this conversation well, as it would many past fireside chats. Is the 60-minute format deliberate? I guess it's better for a podcast to leave me wanting more rather than overstay its welcome but still, I wonder.

LastStandMedia
>>23203697

I just kinda let the conversations run their course! They seem to settle into that pocket. That said, I recorded one this week that's far closer to two hours!

Michael Candelaria

In regards to the Mario Odyssey conversation. I loved that game, it's the first proper Mario I have played since 64 and it blew me away. I didn't realize I needed a Mario game in my life as much as I did till I played Odyssey. That said it's not a 97. On a 10 scale I'd give it a 9, a 4 out of 5 and if we are going the 100 scale I'd give it a 92...93 at most. Anyway, that was rambling for no reason. Thanks for the great show and awesome CLS content in general

Trent Miller

😂 you guys saying that middle school your friends “don’t matter”😂 ...it’s true though.

LastStandMedia
>>23221834

I think I can literally tell you the name of like six people I went to middle school with.

LastStandMedia
>>23204918

I don't contest that it's great; I just am pointing out score spiking, and also why scores in general are dumb.

Michael Candelaria
>>23204918

Word, I totally agree, they are totally antiquated....that may read weird because I just used a butt load of numbers but I agree

Trent Miller
>>23221834

Same. But that’s more due to the fact that I went to school where there were only like 6 kids in the middle school haha.

Edwin Garcia

Puerto Rican emigrants? 😂 we are Culturally though I get it

Edwin Garcia
>>23243369

He mentioned that he worked in McDonalds with Puerto Rican emigrants which means that he might not know that Puerto Ricans are US citizens by birthright but doesn’t bother me or anything, I just wanted to throw it it out there lol. When I say culturally emigrants, it has to do with the fact that not everyone in the country knows that , he could be a plain example of it and it’s fine, it’s part of it. I could go on to more detail but I don’t want to make this post long 😂

GameSimp

This was an excellent fireside chat. Just saying.

Adam Niksch

This has been really neat to listen to. My mom is works in the office of one of the better elementary school in Houston ISD. I think her and David could have some very interesting conversations. My moms big gripe has always been throwing money at schools and how that just doesn’t work. Some of the worst schools in Houston have the most public money available to them and yet never seem to improve. Parents have to teach the importance of education to their kids because if they don’t care, then why would the kids. My parents were certainly involved with my education growing up (not in a helicopter way). They always offered to help when I really was struggling but wouldn’t do my work for me either. Just like you though, in the end I was the one responsible for my education and my grades. If I ever blamed a teacher for something, I essentially had to prove why he/she was at fault. The end result was 99% of the time, it was my own fault, which is something I plan to teach my own kid when he’s old enough.

LastStandMedia
>>23358841

More money won't fix education. Hiring better teachers, getting rid of Byzantine employment protections for shitty ones, keeping parents engaged, etc. is the key. I went to a terrible school on Long Island, and I'm fine. =D

Anonymous

Good chat. My mom and my sister are teachers (well, my mom's retired). I tend to agree that they're underpaid and overloaded. Also - I think education needs some different approaches. Example: due to the way writing was forced on me in school, I thought I hated writing. Later in life I learned I LOVED it. They need to find a way to help kids find more ownership in their education. People learn what they want to learn to some degree. Also - as mentioned - the whole thing about college being the only way to make a living/be successful is some of the most self sabotaging propaganda there is. We NEED skilled tradespeople too and they can make A LOT of money. Then you can sprinkle in some "higher" education around trades work... like how civic awareness can protect your trade and your industry etc. Thoughts....

Anonymous
>>23358841

Specifically targeted spending could/can help. In poorer communities a lot of parents work multiple jobs, if there was a budget for after school tutors to help with kids whose parents can't provide much practical support. Also - breakfasts and lunch programs. Too many kids in the US don't know where their next meal is coming from. I saw a story about a principal out east somewhere that noticed his kids had issues with attendance because they were embarrassed about not having clean clothes, so he turned an old utililty room into a laundry room for kids. Funding for things like that would help... as well as potentially other hygiene and dignity oriented programs so kids can feel good and safe in school. I think money is too often thrown at schools to invest in programs that people use to boost their ballots rather than programs that address how kids feel about being in school and what they can get out of it.

LastStandMedia
>>23409088

My simple conclusion is that we need to invest in trade schools and start migrating young people away from college, for the most part. Let those who excel at STEM or who have a real passion in art or history or whatever occupy those seats. Everyone else should go make a good living as an HVAC repairman or an electrician or something.

Nathan R

This was good stuff. I just recently decided to change my career to teaching, after 5 years of accounting/finance. I have been a full time substitute for about 6 months and it is crazy to see the difference between the less fortunate (title one schools) and the wealthier schools. I did a long term sub job at a title one school and bro....... it was nuts. Kids were constantly fist fighting, cursing at each other and me, arguing with teachers, and talking throughout the lessons. I had a girl student try to fist fight me. She put up her fist and I got to eye level with her and said “I’m like 100lbs more than you. Do you think this will end well...”. Oh yeah I forgot to mention these were 4th graders. This experience really opened my eyes to how hard it is for kids to grow up in environments like that and exceed in school. Also, I just got certified to teach in Texas and we do not teach the civil war as if the south was right in their actions..... but I am sure some teachers do spin it that way in less diverse communities.

Nathan R

Yeah in some ways, but every career path has its own headaches.

Anonymous
>>23243369

I want to apologize. this has been brought up a bunch. Honestly, I never meant to offend, or make light of. You are correct culturally there is a difference, I probably would have made the same mistake if I was talking about America Samoa's. This has been on my mind since it came out of my mouth. I think it's the dumbest comment I've made on record. This is also why I'm coming out and saying something about it. (Now you know my name). Interesting fact Samoa is a territory but people born there are not citizens.