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Sacred Symbols+, Episode 370 | Nintendo, Yuzu, and the Hazardous Future of Emulation (Video) (Patreon)

Published:
2024-03-09 17:01:01
Edited:
2024-03-12 16:55:24
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Nintendo, Yuzu, and the Hazardous Future of Emulation | Sacred Symbols+, Episode 370

Sacred Symbols+ is designed, in part, to facilitate deeper discussion about gaming-related topics that don't necessarily connect to PlayStation or its ecosystem, and today's episode is one such offering. As such, please welcome LSM legal analyst Rick Hoeg to the show, along with Punching Up co-host Dagan Moriarty and Summon Sign co-host Brad Ellis. I wanted these three folks to join me (Colin) with a purpose in mind; to facilitate a chat about game emulation from multiple, disparate perspectives. Yes, we focus on what recently happened with Nintendo and the Yuzu Switch emulator, but we also talk about the economic and moralistic questions that arise when you steal, no matter how you may choose to justify it to yourself. And as you'll find out, our justifications (or lack thereof) vary as widely as the ethical and monetary quandaries themselves. Vote for Hoeg! https://heroes.stroke.org/rick-hoeg/

Comments

derekmaycare

Great episode. But by far one of the worst arguments Colin has made is that a game is preserved by there being screenshots, videos, or trailers of it. The essence of a game is playing it. There is definitely a preservation problem in the video game industry. Console manufacturers purposely create it.

nicholas

Copy protect it like Drugs in the US. Give IP holder the ability to copy protect it for three years or so past the last meaningful update or after it has not been for sale for three years. Whichever comes first. If the company abandons its hardware or software for three years then let the copy protection sunset. I don't think writing this law would be that complicated honestly once the manufacturer is not profiting or offering a version for sale anymore then it does become a preservation question. But if they are actively making money on the game or hardware or if they are actively supporting it then it should not be legal to copy.

Tyler Kottmyer

Related but slightly off topic question. I'm curious how everyone feels bout preserving previous versions of a game. Usually, the easiest versions of a game to get are the current version and 1.0 on disc. What if 1.06.2.whatever ends up being the "best" version? Not legally but morally, should the companies be able to decide this for us like (Banksey shredding 'Girl with Balloon' after the sale closed), or should we have the option to preserve patches for posterity?

Tyler Kaminski
>>131909436

I also find this take of his baffling. I’m not really a user or even a supporter of emulation, but I don’t understand his take on that. He mentioned holes in the argument of pro emulation people, but I found many holes in his arguments. If we care about this industry, we should want preservation for all games. Games are meant to be played and experienced. That is the process.

Garry
>>131909436

I agree a clue is in the name it’s a game if it can’t be played and only videos then it no longer available. It really is a poor argument, he did make better ones but that was a very strange take.

Jared R
>>131909436

Playing devil’s advocate here, as I’m pro-emulation. Could one counter that a Broadway play is *meant* to be experienced in person, but having the script, the cast recording, and maybe even a video of the performance is the best way we have of preserving it? In essence, sometimes things can’t be preserved in their most pure form, so we just have to accept the methods we do have.

DDTJOESTAR

This conversation is always fun to me until I get the itch to play Shadow Hearts for the 13th time in a year and see a $200 price tag for a PS2 title. That will always tangle me up lol.

derekmaycare
>>131909436

I don't buy that argument either @Jared R because it's implied that something can only be "preserved" in a static form. Plays are intended to be seen live, but if we have the static script, we can still create new performances of that play. Its essence has not been lost. With videogames, they are intended to be played. Each person's playthrough is a tiny bit different, but the software is the same. If we have the game's static software, people can still play the game and create their own unique playthroughs. If all we have is a video of one person's particular playthrough online, then this is not possible. The essence of the game has been lost.

Garry
>>131909436

But by having the broadway script you can always stage that play again. But games your stuck without it.

NorthOfAmerica

Send Dagen a FUM. I think they need a chewy tip for ppl like the D'meister.

Andrew Simmons

I love PS1/PS2 era games. I signed up for PS Premium the day it was announced to be introducing classic titles. Massiveky let down by how poor the selection was. I ended my subscription in October and bought a retro emulator. Not touched the PS5 since. Ive played MGS Twin Snakes, Parasite Eve which never had a PAL release. NFS Underground, Small Soldiers.... Id buy all of these on Playstation but they dont let me. I had these on disc but my PS1 broke. I bought some on PS3 store but cant access them on PS4 or PS5. Ill stop emulating when they sell it to me.

Jordan Wray
>>132061135

Why even trust them enough to buy anymore, I too bought an extensive selection on Ps3 that's no longer available and I'm two Ps3s down.

Feverdream -

This conversation is easy for Collin considering his wealth and the fact that he had access to hundreds of games while at ign that he can still play to this day. Meanwhile us gutterfolk are getting criticized for wanting to play a game like spec ops the line or sly cooper for the first time with the only options being ridiculous used markup prices (which don’t even go to the devs anymore), a poorly localized port or pure emulation.

TundraBoyMuc
>>132202857

Why do you NEED to play these games though? There's so much else to play in the modern era that resorting to piracy just to play specific games seems silly, especially when said games could easily see a re-release down the line.

Feverdream -
>>132202857

Not sure what you mean? Gaming is my passion and I didn’t get to do very much of it growing up due to strict parents so with the exception of certain handhelds I missed out on pretty much everything up to the ps4 era. Over half my backlog is before the ps4 era and yes there are some great re-releases like dead space, but they’re still few and far between.

Keith Huntington

one thing to note: just because someone downloaded a copy of zelda befor street date, doesn't necessarily implicate that they didn't buy it as well. i would like to hope that 75% of the people who downloaded the rom, did so just to experience it before it streets, but still honored their preorder. the other users are probably those who don't have a switch, and just simply stole it.

TundraBoyMuc
>>132202857

I'm just not sure why you need to play these specific games that aren't readily available when you can easily play so many great games that are, be that old or current games. We are drowning in amazing games already this year and have been for a while. There's more than enough to be passionate about without resorting to piracy imo but to each their own 🙂

Jared R
>>132202857

Getting onto someone about downloading a game there’s no way to pay for is like getting onto someone for jaywalking across an empty street, imo.

Guybrush Threepwood

its amazing how many otherwise intelligent adults have the view "if company X decides (for any reason) to not sell me product Y, I am entitled to steal it." which is the ethical reasoning of a 12 yr old.

Guybrush Threepwood
>>132202857

"If I can't afford product X, I am entitled to steal it". Congrats you have the ethical reasoning of a 12 yr old.

Feverdream -
>>132202857

Hey man, I’m totally against emulating games that you have access to already. If i lack the funds thats a whole different personal problem. My argument is basically emulating games that you can no longer buy directly from the devs or digital storefronts shouldn’t be inherently wrong.