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WARNING! POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD!

A while ago I said I had four ideas for the next story I intended to write, and that I would eventually ask my patrons what thoughts they had on each. Well, I’ve made an outline for each of the four ideas. Here is one of them. If you have time, please take a look and tell me what you think. Does this look interesting to you? Do you have any ideas or concerns you wish to raise? This isn’t a popularity vote, and I reserve the right to do whatever I want regardless of the reception each idea gets, but I do care what you think. That’s why I’m asking.

Oh yeah, just to reiterate the warning at the top of the post and clarify it – the following is a fairly detailed look at the story idea I may eventually write. If I do, some of the information may constitute mild spoilers for that story. There is nothing really crucial here, but obviously I cannot discuss the story without revealing some surface-level details about it. You have been warned.

Story Idea 2: The Infinite Dungeon

The premise revolves around the Infinite Dungeon – a constantly reshuffling dimension full of monsters, puzzles, traps, environmental dangers, and other obstacles – and a set of powers inspired by video games. 

In other words, it’s a LitRPG story. The protagonist gets powers that turn him into a video game character and he must navigate a dungeon-like environment to get stronger. He can put things into an inventory, look at his own stat screen, and grows in power as he levels up and finds equipment in the dungeon. And he isn’t the only person given this power.

The Setting: 

The world is completely mundane, aside from the people granted gamer powers. These people have gotten their powers at the same time the protagonist did, so the wider implications of people with these abilities is nonexistent at the time the story starts. However, I do intend for mundane people to start reacting to things as the story progresses. The protagonist will try to be somewhat discreet with his powers, but not everyone else will bother with that.

I am still undecided whether to make the setting a slightly altered version of our world or to make a brand new setting with no magic and modern level of technology but completely different in terms of borders and politics. I’m currently learning towards a brand new world – it would take more work, but it would give me more creative freedom (and I wouldn’t have to pretend I know how people in the USA live their lives). If you have any thoughts on this, I would appreciate your opinion.

The Infinite Dungeon itself is inspired by roguelikes, and the way they use procedural generation to make brand new randomly-generated levels for each game. The dungeon in the story is even more diverse than these games, and can create a wide variety of levels for the ‘players’ to explore: seemingly natural cave systems, derelict spaceships, rusted skyscrapers straight out of post-apocalyptic fiction, fantasy castles and palaces, etc. I don’t intend to limit myself to just regular tunnels and goblins here – each level should be its own bizarre thing with different enemies and treasure. Though obviously there is place for more mundane fantasy dungeons in there too.

The power growth is closely tied to one’s progress inside the dungeon. Players cannot not grow much in power and levels unless they descend into the dungeon’s depths and risk their life there to acquire prizes.

The Protagonist: 

The protagonist for the story hasn’t been 100% finalized, but he’s meant to be a 20-something college student when the story starts… meaning he has lots of free time for exploring the dungeon and other things necessary for the plot. He is enamored with the idea of supernatural, and perfectly willing to take risks and put his life on the line. He eagerly accepts the gamer powers granted to him and delves ever deeper into the dungeon, not because unfortunate circumstances compel him to, but because of his thirst for power and adventure. 

The protagonist isn’t meant to have any ‘cheats’ – he’s just somewhat lucky and willing to take risks. But we’ll see.

Other Notes:

The story has no obvious threat looming over the protagonist. There is the mystery of what the Infinite Dungeon really *is*, and why people have been given these powers, but aside from the dungeon dangers the main threat to the protagonist are other ‘players’. It's just a bunch of people with gamer powers exploring their powers, getting stronger and engaging in politicking with one another and the world around them.

For those of you who don’t mind spoilers and want to know more, you can find out more about dungeon mechanics and gamer powers in this document here.

Oh yeah, I have a somewhat silly question for my readers… if you were suddenly granted a power like this, one that starts rather low-key and requires you to risk your life to grow stronger, what do you think you’d do with it? Would you try to keep it a secret or would you run into the streets, screaming to everyone that would listen that you have magic? Would you take risks to acquire more power or play it extremely safe? If you were approached by other players for cooperation, would you be suspicious of their motives or eager to cooperate for mutual gain? How would you react if the government tried to confiscate your hard-earned magical loot? We’re talking a general order for people to hand it all over, not police kicking down your door and pointing guns at you. Is there any particular ‘build’ you would go for, assuming you could choose whatever you wanted?

Anyway. Hopefully the questions were at least a little amusing, if nothing else.

Comments

Ungrave

I'd say of the 4 ideas you've presented, this one certainly appeals to me the most. I very much like the idea of being a superhuman in an otherwise mundane world, and have spent a lot of time thinking about how I would protect myself with such an opportunity. As for your question about how I would deal with having such a power, I would certainly play it cautious. The moment I find myself with abilities outside of the human norm, I would elect to go full tinfoil hat, making sure to avoid speaking about my abilities around other people or around unsecured electronic devices. I would also spend time trying to build up a support group of trusted individuals, much like a company, to keep the government off my trail and assist me in monetizing my gains from the dungeon without promoting a visit from mysterious government agents. Overall, this is a pretty good premise and I would look forward to seeing what you do with it.

Corwin Amber

If you go this route, I definitely agree that you should use a brand new world version. Considering how people in this world live their lives, with their opinions and the stupid mistakes they make; it would be nicer to have a world where you have at least a little more control over who is in charge and how they would react to stimuli.

Anthony Daniel Martin

This sounds good. For your questions: have fun with it, try to keep it secret, take risks because I'm greedy, consider working with others, and keep what I've acquired because again, I'm greedy. As for the build, it would be something like the Arcane Trickster from DND.

Corwin Amber

I agree with being incredibly cautious. A secret only stays that way if I don't tell anyone else. Finding trusted individuals would be particularly hard unless the power set I received in some way offered an ability to enforce the secrecy. Monetizing it until having enough money to support oneself/group without the authorities finding out would also be agreeable.

Anonymous

Alternate modern settings is such a rare treat in fiction, unless you consider the eastern Europe one, which hides the vast majority of currently invented fictional countries, somewhere in its dimensional pockets.

Rex Schrader

This feels a bit generic to me. Sort of a "been done" (although obviously not exactly like described). I don't feel a real hook here. What is the tension, where is the potential for character growth? RE: Risking your life to grow stronger That'd be a hard no for me. I've got a wife and a daughter. It would take a significant alternative threat or other massive life change to make me want to stick my neck out, even if I had magical powers.

Corwin Amber

I've now read all 4 options. Personally I like this one most for a primary story, but I feel the need to point out (having read plenty of other litRPG stories) that if this is the route you go, please just make sure that the math behind the stats and how their numbers convert to bonuses (for instance vitality to health regen) actually make logical sense and remain consistent throughout. Having said that, the King of the Junk Yard seems like a way to write the equivalent of a self-contained short story periodically when you need a break from this (or whichever you write as a main).

esteban albo

As said ,the dungeon trope is flourishing nowadays but i do like it. The issue for me is the logic behind the power.what i liked in mol was the fully fleshed magical theory and the logic of a spell was asserted by it. The game trope is hard to explain and goes fast in the plot armor and it s sad.i think i would love the story if you managed to make the gamer side of the story more lively . The 24hours limit restrain some of it for example and from my point of view

nobody103

The tension here is mostly personal - the danger of losing one's life and powers, of being betrayed or forced into hiding, things like that. There is no great crisis that must be resolved; nothing like MoL's invasion and time loop. I realize this is insufficient stakes for a lot of people, but adding a global looming threat would kind of go against the concept of the story. I'm still considering the protagonist, so I can't answer the other question yet.

esteban albo

And for the question. I think if i find myself with unexplainable power i would like to know how it works . I would go for the archimage style and if i can spread its use i would gladly do it

Anonymous

yes please! i love litRPG

Young Youghurt

I like this A LOT! However I find some similarities with the Tower of God and persona series which I both like and would love to see their hypothetical child. Just saying so you can I don't know cross examine them or something. I personally would try to find companions, confidants etc. Then I would be jealous if someone was better than me. I would never ever try to shout it out to the world unless some stronger bad people would be exploiting their powers on plebs.

Anonymous

I would definitely try to be as low key with 'mah powers' and set to not tripping too many alarms and see how the situation develops, while trying to get as powerful in the dungeon as possible, preferrably until most dangers in or out would cease to be a threat... That said, any RPG upgrades that can help to increase the Intelligence/Wisdom, strategic thinking, social engineering, socioeconomics understanding to adapt faster to the changing times and preferrably nudge the world towards the better outcomes would be nice options to invest. It depends on how extensive this LitRPG's skill tree is and where the applications of each ability or skill end. It's hard to say about risk management from a person, who doesn't have a history of dealing life or death situations. Fictional characters are a coin toss in that sense, they can get either way, as a life of -danger and violence- adventure would change them after a while, so as I writer I'd went with what would be the most interesting story, not a "realism". If possible, I think promoting secret identities inside the dungeon might be a good idea, even if temporary measure, at best, at the current level of technology. Revealing one's identity as a show of trust. Not, that it would be easy to convince others to adopt this practice uniformly, but it's one of the cases when it does makes a lot of sense (so obviously all the teenage/30yo edgelords drunk on power would ignore it). That said, going out in a dungeons with other people is still a risk, when there's power involved, there are some people, who would kill for it... You really have to get to know people in order to trust your back with them. How they would act under pressure, what they value most... In my mind [hand over your loot] isn't a 'personal property extortion/dangerous alien weapons withdrawal' issue, but part of the broader 'supernatural individuals regulation' and 'First Contact response' issues, and thus it would very much depend on a lot of factors. It might be suicidal/extremely unwise or it might be incosequential depending on what I plan to do, where I am and who are my enemies/allies. I'd go for optimizing everyday effectiveness, overall health and intelligence, making life on Earth more comfortable and less stressful without any excesses and sudden windfalls, while going all-out powerhungry wizard, who wants to cheat death in the dungeon. :P I would focus on vast array of magic powers with good synergy and a lot of creative applications plus damage evasion, regeneration options. Not getting hurt and not relying on others to heal you is a good backup, when things go FUBAR. I'd try to appear as if I know and can do more, that I let on and use that persona as a leverage in negotiations and use dramatic pauses to assess the situation and think. =)

Anonymous

It sounds like the mundane world will play a rather small role in the overarching plot. That's such a waste. Making the mundane world have its own technology/magic that doesn't mesh with the Dungeon Powers is a great source of slowly growing tension and friction. The way to make this compatible with the protagonist's motivation is to make the technological/magical powers very elite – either through inherentness (such as magical aptitude or genetic compatibility with cybernetics) or cost (magical materials or personalized technology) – so that the protagonist doesn't have hope of accessing them. And I'll have to stress that with LitRPG you have to make sure to not get lost in the power treadmill. Every explicit power up should also constitute a change in the status quo. It's the inherent trap of the LitRPG genre. I really like the idea of making rewards and requirements scale exponentially; it helps avoid the aforementioned trap. Furthermore I also dig that the protagonist has a positive motivation (want) instead of a negative motivation (fear of loss) though of course it's best to always use a bit of each. Not giving the protagonist a cheat is a breath of fresh air though Cheats exist for a reason. If you do decide having a Cheat would be better for the story then all Gamers having unique Cheats would be a great idea. Organize these Cheats then into a couple loose categories and you've got a framework for PvP already. Now to the questionnaire: > Would you try to keep it a secret or would you run into the streets, screaming to everyone that would listen that you have magic? No, I'd either land in a mental hospital or some unofficial governmental lab. > Would you take risks to acquire more power or play it extremely safe? I'd probably try eat my cake and have it too but I'd probably try to get myself hooked on power-up euphoria to temper my cowardice. > If you were approached by other players for cooperation, would you be suspicious of their motives or eager to cooperate for mutual gain? I'm a naturally trusting person but I've cultivated paranoia. I'd work out some flexible but comprehensive rules to moderate the cooperation. > How would you react if the government tried to confiscate your hard-earned magical loot? Depends. How is our power differential at this point in time? How is my economic situation now? If I'm powerless and poor, I'll have to roll over just like irl. If I'm not really stronger but have a good deal of money by now then I'll fucking sue the government. If I'm stronger, well fuck them; I'll just ignore them, they're beneath me and the free market while probably paying out worse literally will make society as whole better off and as such effectively me also better off. > Is there any particular ‘build’ you would go for, assuming you could choose whatever you wanted? Close range battlemage (punching people with fireballs!) with a couple artillery type spells up my sleeve when I really need to fuck someones day up or as a strategic asset in a larger joint cooperative. Oh and also utility magic, lots of utility magic; being able to dive right into the gore in the fight and afterwards just showering on the spot with some magic would be great. Though applying magic, let's say, "creatively" is a better approach than buying spells designed for that (Rocket Jumps but with magic!). Also improved cognition is a vastly underestimated power; thinking 10% faster is a far greater advantage than hitting twice as hard, not to mention how thinking broader (i.e. increased working memory) is a f'ing OP. Well, I've been reading through the doc and if you want I could roll you up an entire character of me to use as an NPC :Ü™

Adrien Matricon

- Regarding the setting: I think "brand new world" is the superior option here. That'll allow your story to be timeless, regardless of new trends/technology/big political event. - Regarding the overall thing: I'm a bit worried about it being a LitRPG; leaving aside the bad ones, very few of those manage to go from good to great. I hope you can write it in a way that the system supports your story (many go for number-porn instead), and that "go get more levels" isn't the answer to everything. Also, I really hope you don't plan to make it another harem story, as is so common in this genre... - Regarding the main character: seems fine to me as long as there's a convincing reason for the main character to go back to the dungeon when traumatic stuff happens (he's inevitably going to come close to death at least once) - Regarding how I would go about things if I were in this situation: I'd keep in mind that I want to settle and live a peaceful life down the line, and that living an ordinary life is always an option, so Id need to have a clear goal in mind for me to go and risk my life in the dungeon: it could be I want to gain a convenient ability (the ability to teleport to avoid commuting, eternal life, etc) before settling, to get an item that can only be found there (the cliché would be a potion that can cure a family member's disease), or maybe simply to farm the dungeon and sell items a year or two if that can make me a billionnaire. Whatever the goal, I'd be sure to have a clear exist strategy and not keep betting my life until I lose it. What were the other questions... right. I would play it as safe as I can. I wouldn't hide my powers from my friends and family, but I would try to prevent it from being public knowledge because that could lead to trouble down the line. If the state decided to confiscate stuff, my reaction would depend if it's to appropriate it (in which case I'd be miffed and either hide mine or try to strike a deal so that they actually compensate me for the stuff I bring back) or if it's similar to banning guns IRL (in which case I'd probably just leave my stuff in a secret stash somewhere in the dungeon)

Bbyh

I don't love litRPG, so I'm not a huge fan of this one, but I couldn't stop myself from sharing my strategy. Play it safe and see if I can watch what other people are doing, then mimic the risks of the more successful. (Survivorship bias would be a problem. Try to find failures of the same sort to offset.) If I can't watch other people, then I ramp up my risks as I become more familiar with the setting. -As to handling stuff over to the government, in the real world I would probably comply with a firearms collection because I don't think it would necessarily come from a bad place nor is it impacting me and my chances for success in the world not that it would apply to me in the first place. Justification and impact on me would be the two criteria I think I would consider in any such situation. (Impact on me would likely have a larger weight.)

Anonymous

Regarding your question (NOT silly): I tend to reject the extremes of all these dichotomies. For me getting these powers would be an invitation to learn as much as I could about the characteristics of the virtual world. I'd have to become powerful over time to be able to explore more and more dangerous places. I'd also be extremely interested in big questions -- Why does the dungeon exist? Who or what created it and controls it? What limits does it have? (Both spatial and other.) Etc.

Anonymous

To be honest, I'm really not a fan of LitRPGs. Almost all of them devolve into complete power creeps. Its not very interesting when a character can hit the side of a barn with a hammer a couple of times and then they suddenly have the ability to build the Hagia Sophia. Also, the world building often feels really shallow. Video games can get away with some of the story stuff they do, because its convenient for gameplay. Almost every litrpg story I've enjoyed has really downplayed the litRPG elements. One of the things that made Mother of Learning stand out from the crowd was that it wasn't yet another litRPG story. -The idea of an infinite dungeon showing up in the real world is a cool idea though. I'm just not interested in a story that awkwardly forces video game elements into it. Its a more interesting and cooler story, if people don't get weird little boosts via leveling and skills, and have to figure out and adapt to everything on their own.

Anonymous

All of your four stories have parts that approximate the Infinite Dungeon, which works well. I don't much like the sound of making the Infinite Dungeon the entire story because it has too many degrees of freedom, so there's little if any need for commitment / focus. To counter this you could carry the reader along with great writing and/or very creative world building, but depending on these to carry the story would be difficult.

Anonymous

Also: A general comment about your "everyday world" in any story, specifically catalyzed by your point about having to "pretend I know how people in the USA live their lives". One aspect of MoL that I really liked was the NON-US character of family life, casual interactions, attitudes. These seemed completely genuine and realistic, not blatantly different from the US, but different enough to give the story an extra interesting flavor. So whether this is just how you see ordinary life where you live, or whether you made it up, I feel it is 100% better than trying to imagine living in the US.

nyt

Premise-wise, I find this is the most appealing, in the same way that MoL's Dungeon was a very exciting piece of worldbuilding to reader and had the same weak-to-strong setup. However, I think you should go with whatever premise has that spark for you personally. It won't have the same magic if you're not in love with the protagonist, setting, and plot. There's more than enough stories out there with amazing premises but development that eventually falls flat. As for the setting, there's a lot of questions right off the bat. What are the nature of the powers (what powers are available)? Are the powers usable in the real world? Why does the real world exist in the setting? Following that, what are the stakes (both plot and overall story)? If nobody clears the dungeon or if some malicious player achieves godlike powers and decides to create a hegemony? If there's no consequence to ignoring the dungeon (besides losing the powers), then the setup favors certain personality types and that would affect the real-world implications of what these people want, once they become powerful. Can new people get Gamer powers? Is there some probability distribution or selection criteria for who gets powers? Or can new people only get it after the death or loss of power of current players? How does time transition work? 24 hours dungeon-time = real time? Infinite = 100 levels? Given the rules and depending on just how many people of the world's population gets this power, the start will be a complete mess of leaks, even though it's in the individual player's best interest to grow in secrecy as long as possible to get the headstart. Depending on difficulty, the short 24 hr restriction means each level is probably (progressively) intense and challenging. I assume eventually the difficulty will make it impossible to solo and cooperation becomes a must (unless levels have some kind of scaling per player, balanced against a team's versatility). Depending on the sociopolitical situation and how players view each other, how would cooperation even work? Is there a game menu for PMs? Can players meet on the same level by chance? If players have to congregate on the internet, say goodbye to privacy as the government will surely be combing and keeping track of all known players. You'd see government-affiliated teams try to any% speedrun their agents to a position of power (in a realistic world, brainwashing loyalty is almost guaranteed - unless people don't know the eventual end-game powers at stake, there'd be constant paranoia of eventual rogues). There is zero chance it would stay a secret past the first day. In our modern world, forums and social media would explode with evidence and speculation. I assume the one year limit is announced early (why one year? seems like low stakes compared to at least one level per month/week) so it'd be a real clusterfuck. If each level's makeup is set in stone or recurring (as opposed to truly infinite and random), then players would quickly start analyzing each level and successful strategies. Independent teams may or may not share that info. It's in the players' best interests to cooperate with others for the info (unless sociopolitical factors of course, or psychological factors like the prisoner's dilemma / zero sum attitudes). However, privacy of where your "door" is set becomes paramount. At some point, once people know who you are and where you live / set the door, there's going to be unsavory strongarming / blackmailing. Depends on how valuable "loot" is. There'd be mindgaming if there's no surefire way to compel people to handover loot (they can choose to rather die fighting). Mechanics of the portal/level generation might also be relevant. Nobody would know what build to go for at the start, since there's no info. It'd be very blind touch and go, but there'd be a tendency to stick with known video-game archetypes like melee/ranged/magic. The Dungeon might reward creativity and novel (ahem lucky/anthropic) approaches in that case. Personally I think tying the Dungeon to the real world makes the story harder to execute, because of all the loose threads of connections, real life, and politics. Outside of making the protagonist the luckiest Stu alive, there's going to be some serious (Ready Player One) questioning of how governments and megacorps are screaming noooooo!!! you can't just beat our colossal resources and clout!!

Anonymous

After reading the linked doc: I think narrative interest would be hard to sustain because of the very close mapping to rogue-likes. Also I see major problems (possibly opportunities?) in joining the mundane world with the Dungeon. If you bring back magical items, do they still have magical powers in the mundane world? Are their powers the same? Variations on this could lead to interesting dynamics -- find / create items in the game that have useful powers when you bring them back to the mundane world.

Anonymous

More generally regarding interactions between two worlds connected by a portal -- this seems like a potentially very interesting dynamic that can be used in all your other story ideas. Bringing a team through the portal is a great part of the picture -- I thought the team dynamics of MoL contributed a lot of the long-term interest. Bringing items through the portal can potentially have a big story impact either way -- guns in Avalon, or spell casting in a data center.

nobody103

Nah, I'd be afraid of offending you by making an uncharitable depiction of your NPC. :D But if put a support character that punches people with fireballs, you'll know where it came from. ;)

nobody103

Of course the items still have powers in the mundane world. Would be kind of lame otherwise.

nobody103

>Are the powers usable in the real world? Of course. >If there's no consequence to ignoring the dungeon (besides losing the powers), If nobody reaches level 50 by year's end, that would be catastrophic. But I intend for multiple people to reach this level so that's kind of a non-issue. >Can new people get Gamer powers? Yes, but it only happens once a year so it's not relevant to the story... which is currently set to last for a single year in-setting. >How does time transition work? 24 hours dungeon-time = real time? Yes. The time you spend in the dungeon is the time taken out of your normal life outside. >unless levels have some kind of scaling per player, balanced against a team's versatility. There is, in fact, a kind of scaling per player. However, most people would still probably benefit from cooperation with others. It's easier to specialize in one role and work with a team than try to do everything on your own. >Is there a game menu for PMs? Can players meet on the same level by chance? No and no. Players can eventually unlock a meeting place in the dungeon, but aside from that they must meet up in the real world if they want to. >There is zero chance it would stay a secret past the first day. So quickly? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I kind of think that's too soon. Most players don't have any overtly magical abilities except for their inventory. And it would take a while for people to take reports seriously, I think. I personally think it would take at least a week for people to start paying attention. >(why one year? seems like low stakes compared to at least one level per month/week) A level per month is even lower stakes than current limit (level 12 vs 50), and the reason I didn't use one level per week is because that would punish anyone who is unable to enter the dungeon for a week for any reason at all, even if they are better than your average player. Plus, a level per week ultimately works out to an almost identical number (lvl 52 vs 50) so it wouldn't change much. Think of it as the dungeon testing your basic math and ability to think ahead. :)

Anonymous

I like that the floors would be different for each player, but you can invite and be invited by people. That allows a lot of variation if you work with friends/allies. Is it possible to revisited layers after you cleared them? I very much hope so. The NPCs are supposedly indistinguishable from actual people, so it would be interesting to explore how they view themselves. Since each level is generated differently for each player, does that mean they popped into existence when the player got their powers? Does the death/failure of the player lead to the destruction of the dungeon world associated with the player? Assuming the MC is not a psychopath, he'll probably make acquaintances and friends in the world. It might be an interesting dynamic to explore that the MC might be responsible for... everyone living in the dungeon. It's a bit reminiscent of the time loop in that regard actually, best not to dwell on what happens when the world resets. I don't think I have to repeat the warning about not turning it into a shallow LitRPG, because I know you're a good author. :) It's better to build deep and wide rather than high. Much like "Forge of Destiny" is a Xianxia story that has actual multidimensional characters with real development and good world building, I trust you to not screw this up just because there is a lot of garbage in the LitRPG genre. ;) I always enjoyed the MoL chapters where Zorian went exploring the dungeon and new locations a lot, so I'd very much enjoy reading your writing about new fantastic places and creatures. Experiencing the world through the eyes of the protagonist and learning all the secrets of the places he goes. Or not. Because you don't just automatically figure everything and that's part of good writing. As the MC I'd stay out of trouble and secretive until it becomes clear how the world's governments etc are reacting to this. As for skills/classes I'd choose... I'm not sure. Definitely something that can heal, because dying sounds like a bad idea and it is a useful skill in both worlds. Is crafting a thing? (Not that I would go down that road)

Deegles

I forget the name of the game, but it has procedurally generated levels that you fight in and get items etc. The key mechanic though is that the longer you stay in the level the more the difficulty escalates. I think that would be a fun twist for the Infinite Dungeon, having the monsters become increasingly powerful over time or maybe as you get farther and farther away from your entry point. Initial difficulty could also be scaled to your level when you enter. That would also neatly solve the problem of people farming low level enemies forever.

wanderer117

Now to the questionnaire: > Would you try to keep it a secret or would you run into the streets, screaming to everyone that would listen that you have magic? At least initially I would be pro Masquerade. Maybe telling my immediate family, but if I can't induct anyone into the dungeon / need to explain to them why I can do X maybe not even them. > Would you take risks to acquire more power or play it extremely safe? If I had the chance to get unknown power by taking unknown risks with my life right now I wouldn't take it, but if I was put in a dungeon instance, and had to work my way through it getting powers at the end or along the way then might go back again. The double unknown, unknown risk and unknown rewards would make it undesirable, but even one instance of base line might be enough to get me to go back again and again. > If you were approached by other players for cooperation, would you be suspicious of their motives or eager to cooperate for mutual gain? It would depend on weather I knew them already or not. I'm not great at reading people biased on first impressions and I don't think I would be willing to enter a life threatening situation with a rando. No PUG, yes grouping with friends. > How would you react if the government tried to confiscate your hard-earned magical loot? Probably just ignore it. Make a point of not using power in public / ways that could be easily traced back to me. > Is there any particular ‘build’ you would go for, assuming you could choose whatever you wanted? Some kind of prediction abilities (maybe see 5 sec into the future) combined with enhanced movement options (teleport or enhanced speed w/ wall climbing). Probably not the best at DPS, but useful in solo or as support in a group. Both powers work well together, and could probably be used subtly in the real world

wanderer117

I like this idea, but I would need to know more about the MC before I would know how much I like it. A character that is willing to risk their life for power needs a strong motivation, be it nothing to lose, something they strongly want that they normally couldn't get, swept away by the excitement / adrenaline junky. There are plenty of options but the character's motivation(s) and response to this would make or break the story for me.

Keifru

Blue Box Spam and/or Numbers Go Up Syndrome would be huge issues if they appear. IE, too much RPG in the Lit, detailing every tiny change (if a skill up is established to increase a thing by +5, its just irritating to detail every single skill up and its new value. Treating the reader as if they dont have basic math skills is blarg). A big thing for 'becoming a game' to me is actually balance of the game itself. More Log Horizon or .Hack or Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash, less SAO, to use anime conversions. Still, probably the second preference just because MoL means I kind of give the benefit of the doubt due to meticulous handling of story threads and setting elements. But as a 'lighter' story, I'm not sure...

Andrew

I like this one a lot, but I'm sort of biased. I'd like to hear more about what sets it apart from similarish stuff like Tower of God, Infinite Competitive Dungeon Society, The Tutorial is Too Hard, etc.

David Otis

As much as I love litrpgs, there are so many out there that are half baked that you would have to do something novel with his powerset to really stand out I think.

Ole Halvorsen

I would really love your take on the litRPG

Faren

Have you thought about writing a lovecraftian horror?

Mr R

LitRPGs are almost universally bad and I agreed with you that something like Erestu is a better way to have such a game like system. Otherwise it feels shallow and ripe for abuse. Plus, the dungeon doesn't feel natural based off what you've said, like Erestu's did. But you're a good writer so maybe you can make it work. I feel like the Dungeon shouldn't be generated out of nothing, but instead it contains some vast collection of worlds which it stitches together to make a level. Once the level is cleared, those parts aren't used again for a while to give things a time to refresh. But this shouldn't be obvious, at least not at first. Perhaps there's some incentive to keep things a secret for adventurers too? Learning sounds too OP and difficult to write around in the same way Zorian becoming a collective superintelligence would have been. But if you do choose to do this, I think you should play up the consequences of twisting your psyche like that, losing some of your humanity in the process. The main character should lean more towards exploration as a motivation, I think. Perhaps make them some kind of biologist or archaeolgy student? Or maybe just someone who has always dreamed of travelling? I find that more relatable than a thirst for power. If I were put in that scenario, I think I would share info about the place because I'd need other perspectives to figure out what the hell is going on. Plus, I would want to know how this could benefit humanity, or harm it. Hence I might try to find better people than I who I could aid in pursuit of that task. Hence I'd want to meet other gamers, but would be reluctant to trust them since they could be(come) monstrous. Also, no way I'd give these things over to governments, at least not secretly and without ensuring nothing too destructive falls in their hands. Also, I'd try to be quite cautious about exploring things. As to a build, I'd probably try to be a jack of all trades but that could be a bad choice. Which reminds me, I don't think specialisation should be too rewarding, or certain skills having too much power.

Mikhail Gorodetskiy

This is the least thing I'd want to read based on the premise. So far "The Gamer" webtoon is the only thing I read in the genre it was underwhelming to say the least. Boring grind, slow story with underdeveloped characters. As a game that would work better, but as a comics, it's just boring. Without questions at the end, I would be extremely skeptical. With them, I'm moderately skeptical. But if you make this work, that would be an extremely great surprise and enjoyment factor would double. >If you were suddenly granted a power like this, one that starts rather low-key and requires you to risk your life to grow stronger, what do you think you’d do with it? That's really depends on a bunch of things, especially on how much of a risk it should be. If it's more like mountain climbing or parachutes they I'd go for it. If it's "stranded on an island with a knife" kind of risk, then nah, not interested. > Would you try to keep it a secret or would you run into the streets, screaming to everyone that would listen that you have magic? Neither. I would tell some of my friends, but I wouldn't actively tell everyone. And if asked, I'd lie outright. Being abducted by an intellignce agency is bad for my wellbeing. >Would you take risks to acquire more power or play it extremely safe? Safe. As safe as possible. After all, with a power like heal I would have lots of time. > If you were approached by other players for cooperation, would you be suspicious of their motives or eager to cooperate for mutual gain? Since I'm bad judge of a character and there is a great risk, I would be suspicious until I get something like "lie detection" spell or it's already one of my friends. > How would you react if the government tried to confiscate your hard-earned magical loot? We’re talking a general order for people to hand it all over, not police kicki?ng down your door and pointing guns at you. If it's something non-critical, I would bargain a bit and give it away, and immediately begin to execute my plan to disappear. Unless there is some global world thread and know I can help to thwart it, being on a radar of any government is bad for me. > Is there any particular ‘build’ you would go for, assuming you could choose whatever you wanted? Yes. Heavy protection and all kind of healing abilities, preference to healing if mutually exclusive. Heal a lot, stay behind trouble, if possible, have a teleport to a safe place. If there is no choice but to fight, some pain suppression spell/potion would be good as well.

Anonymous

LitRPG always forces complex mechanisms in some kind of number system that cannot possibly do them justice. I image you would get tired of it quickly. Plus numbers are not really interesting. My least favorite of the four.

Anonymous

I like this story and “Zenith of Sorcery”. At first, “King of the Junkyard” idea was my favorite, but I am not sure that I prefer mentioned episodic structure. Still, I would enjoy “King of the Junkyard” if you choose it. “Refuge in Void” also looks interesting, but we need to wait longer since idea is still under development, so I am not voting for it even it is very good. Again, if you choose it, I would be glad to read. Questionnaire: “if you were suddenly granted a power like this, one that starts rather low-key and requires you to risk your life to grow stronger, what do you think you’d do with it?” That depends on the level of the risk, but I believe I would try to grow the power stronger. “Would you try to keep it a secret or would you run into the streets, screaming to everyone that would listen that you have magic?” I would keep it quiet, but I would share this with some close friends and family. “Would you take risks to acquire more power or play it extremely safe?” Depending on the situation. If the world goes wild, then I need more power to survive and I surely would rush it. If everything is calm, then I would try to learn and achieve as much as I can with minimum risk. If my progress stops or I realize that risk allows exponentially increase the reward, then I may risk depending on the reward. “If you were approached by other players for cooperation, would you be suspicious of their motives or eager to cooperate for mutual gain?” I would. But I would try to cooperate anyway. Of course, I would spend some time for precautions and developing some procedures and scenarios in the case of betrayal. Such as having safe places (unknown for the others) and ability to run there, making sure I would survive sudden attack or foresee it and avoid it completely. I would also try to find out everything I can about people which I cooperate with, before I gave them the answer. Their personal history, history in the dungeon, police reports on their real names and so on. Sharing information about our real identities could be part of the pact but only if I can move out and prevent finding myself. Even there is no way to know will person betray you or not, there are clues and negative signs which may be a signal to stop conversation and avoid the person completely. “How would you react if the government tried to confiscate your hard-earned magical loot? We’re talking a general order for people to hand it all over, not police kicking down your door and pointing guns at you.” I would be disappointed. Taxes is one thing; total confiscation is another. If a gamer did not do anything wrong, I would not be impressed by such actions. Still, the reasons are important. If society likes to learn and research, why not? But if government ask for something, I believe it should be temporary thing, and it should be some reward since they obviously renting my tools. Also, I would like to give some things, then give them back and give another. Confiscation? Don’t like that. “Is there any particular ‘build’ you would go for, assuming you could choose whatever you wanted?” Combination of pure force, healing and some research / creation abilities. I don’t think pure force has any help in real world, but healing and divination would not help if all ways are blocked and you are hunted by crowd of monsters. So pure force, like attack/defend magic or some brutal body strength, to survive the dungeon and some skills which are useful in normal life. Healing sounds cool, especially if society finally agreed to live in peace with “gamers”.

Anonymous

I think this is my second favorite, possibly just to see how you spin the impact on the world as the story goes on. I could see this being really interesting, and eventually hopefully the MC would start teaming up with a support system of both those that can and cannot go into the dungeon (unless anyone can), which i think could be really ripe with potential. If you have a support group of medics, or people buying you materials, who cannot level up, that puts them at risk.

Anonymous

This is my least favorite of the 4, primarily because it is too straightforwardly LitRPG. The first time I came across this concept I found it super compelling, but having read a few of these I think it's too hard to add anything new and interesting. In particular, Worth The Candle is a fic where the explicit game layer plays a big role, and all else equal I'd prefer your next story to be something else.

Anonymous

To answer your questions though: if I were suddenly given these powers, I would recognize that the set of people who are willing to take risks are going to quickly outpace those who aren't, and my comparative advantage is going to be very small if I'm not willing to take risks. I would probably study strategies people use to play ironman mode in various games, and I would take intelligence gathering very, very seriously, as it seems to me the best way to get yourself killed it to go into the dungeon without understanding what you're going to face. Along these same lines, anyone unwilling to team up is going to be significantly held back. I would try to find trustworthy partners with differentiated and complementary skillsets to my own. I would keep it secret insomuch as I could, but I wouldn't be willing to keep up a dedicated facade of "just an ordinary person with my ordinary job"- that seems far too much opportunity cost when I could be grinding levels. Most likely I wouldn't end up "keeping it secret" because I wouldn't be trying to live a normal life- I would have hideouts and loot caches and safehouses scattered across the world, and not actually try to live a normal life. If the government tried to confiscate my loot, I would try my best to hide the best stuff, recognizing that the power law probably applies to loot, and "pay my taxes" on the lower powered 80%.

Anonymous

Concerning the setting, the USA is so large and varied that you could probably get away with just about any kind of vibe if alongside due explanation you place it in "a small town somewhere," "along the western coast," or whatnot. America is large enough to accomadate all kinds of places. British author Lee Child said he set his Jack Reacher series in America because "it's easier to be rootless and alienated in a giant country like America...I wanted big, rangy plots; big landscapes; big skies." There are American sensibilities and there are a dozen Americas. On the topic of The Infinite Dungeon, the different levels give me the feeling that this story would have an episodic structure: there is an inherent episodicism in ending one level and starting another, no? Unless, I imagine, the levels were interconnected or so large as to be like phases of the world. Regardless, I'd speculate that you'd have to take care so as to make sure wildly different dungeon levels wouldn't come across as lol random and undermine the dungeon's sense of place, being, gravitas...not sure how well the sense of mystery would fair in a lol random setting. Well, any setting can be written any way, but I think the dungeon setting could very well write the story for you if you're not careful. My understanding of roguelites is that procedural generation is a means of generating infinite content...this book will not have infinite content in the way a game does, so I question why you've chosen procedural generation as your inspiration. Would a roguelike dev prefer to handcraft ten thousand levels or procedurally generate them? Is procdural generation a practical solution to content deficit or an artistic choice? Also, I think characters are kind of critical to a dungeon crawler, since the levels are always changing and (I'd argue) there is an inherently artificial aspect to the dungeon scenario. I like that the mc is a college student who has a life outside of the dungeon (I think?), and personally I'd throw in some out-of-dungeon romance plot, have the MC reflect on this collision of two worlds, that kind of not-entirely-dungeon-centered thing. There's the dungeon, but also maybe classes and schoolwork, sorta like the dichotomy between school life and the larger point of conflict in Harry Potter (investigate the off-limits place, but also study for tests)? I like the mysterious nature of the dungeon, although I'm not sure if the mystery should play a prominent role...maybe the mystery is just part of the dungeon, like how in LoTR not everything about the elves is spelled out for us, only suggested elegaically, broadly. Moving on, if I was granted a power I would probably risk my life to make it stronger because it would be more interesting than anything else I've got going on, and I'd be really curious to see what this power thing was about: if you grew a new limb overnight, of course you'd try to flex it. I'd keep it secret though, and try to live a more or less ordinary life on the side–or maybe try to instill a sense of wonder in some people by showing it to them. That would be fun. Gaining power and getting involved in power-gaining politics would be tempting, but I wouldn't want it to take over my entire life, either...I'd fight against my loot being taken involuntarily, though I wouldn't be against a robin hood sort of scenario either. I'd want to be a paladin class! Sorry for a long comment.

DiabolicalGenius

Order of preference, ideas 2, 3, 1, 4. This is the idea I like best, but that's mainly due to personal taste and preference above all else. I like works where the character's abilities grow and develop as the stories go on. Especially if they start off as a mundane human and gain supernatural powers after the story starts. I'm also a fan of korean soft apocalypse novels where dungeons appear and people gain fantasy abilties to be able to go inside and hunt monsters/find treasures, while monsters threaten the world at the same time. Of course, almost all those novels involve the protagonist having a 'cheat' of some kind, giving him a huge advantage over the rest of the 'hunters'. A special system that allows him to level up in a setting where no-one else can or a second chance where he time leaps to his younger self and uses future knowledge stack the odds in his favour and accelerate his growth. While such advantages are nice and all, I've really been wanting to read one where the protagonist doesn't have any 'cheat' and has to rely on his own wits and ability to compete with others who get access the dungeon at the same time. So yeah, this is right up my alley. I'd also really like to see it in a contemporary setting based on the real world, just because part of the charm of this sort of work is to imagine if it could happen. I also like seeing stories where people with such abilities appear in the ordinary world and the effects it has on things. I can understand how it would be a hassle, but absolute accuracy isn't really necessary. At worst, you just need to introduce it as an alternate reality that resembles Earth closely and has mostly the same names and history, but differs from the real world in small ways. That way if anyone has objections, you can just say it's an alternate world and therefore won't be the same as reality. As for the questions, I'll follow up with the separate comment for them.

DiabolicalGenius

As for your questions, I'd definitely keep it a secret until I understood the situation and the consequences better. At most I might make inquiries online to see if I'm the only one, while taking precautions for anonymity. As for risks, I'd likely go with a balanced approach, measuring the risks against the rewards while keeping in mind my own ability. I would try to avoid being passive when power is there for the taking, but I wouldn't start assuming I was the protagonist of the story who's plot armor would kick in to save me if I got too reckless. Cooperation might be difficult for me. Half my leaning towards secrecy is driven by cynicism and trust issues, so I'd hesitate. At the same time I wouldn't assume I could do everything alone like some cheat protagonist. So I'd take precautions and be careful. Trust would have to be earned. I wouldn't trust someone I just met with my life, but would probably loosen up if they proved themselves to a reasonable extent. If the government start making one sided demands, I likely wouldn't care. Unless they had a method of finding and forcing me to comply, I'd likely ignore them. As before, I'd go with the balanced approach measuring risk vs reward. As for build? Since I didn't spoil myself by reading your notes about the system, it's hard to say without knowing what's available. Likely what's most efficient for being able to work solo or with a part as needed. I like utility, but if it means I'd have no solo combat ability and couldn't level up alone then it would be impractical. I prefer mages, but it would depend if they can handle enemies alone or if they need a shield in front to keep their casting uninterrupted.

nobody103

>so I question why you've chosen procedural generation as your inspiration. Because I like playing roguelikes. :) Therefore, my first idea when thinking of life-becomes-game is not a MMORPG or FInal Fantasy or whatever... it's a roguelike, with it's death around every corner, completely unpredictable levels, and strange loot that isn't carefully handed out to the player but is instead more like gambling. I guess I like this idea of unpredictability - the idea you don't really know what you'll encounter next when you descend down a level. I've yet to truly find a game fic that functions like that. More often, the levels are completely static but unfairly difficult, so the protagonist has to have completely broken powers or people have to learn through trial and error have to beat the level. They also tend to ficus almost exclusively on bosses, probably because regular enemies are hardly a threat in most games, and I wanted to change that. Infinite Dungeon has very few bosses, but that goblin assassin hiding around the corner can totally ruin your day if you're not careful. But it's not supposed to be lol random. Just like every rougelike has patterns that can be learned, so does the Infinite Dungeon. More to the point, each level has a theme and a pattern of its own, and perceptive and intelligent people can make their task a lot safer and easier if they can figure it out. (I suspect that most rougelike makers would indeed prefer procedural generation to making 10000 hand-crafted levels. Being unpredictable and doing things that weren't specifically programmed into the game is part of the point, and I often hear makers of those games say they were pleased when their own game 'surprised them' with something. I suspect that most of them would prefer honing their procedural generation to handcrafting levels.) Yeah, the character is definitely supposed to have a life outside the dungeon. I agree that this is one of the bigger faults in a lot of gamer fics - the fact the protagonist seems to have no friends, family, or anyone else in their life.

Anonymous

My platinum standards for LitRPG are The Wraith's Haunt and the Completionist Chronicles. I'm also going to throw in a recommendation for Reborn: Apocalypse though that does a lot more than just LitRPG :Ü™

Anonymous

This is my favorite story idea. Personally I really like LitRPG stories and would be really happy to see your take on it, especially since most LitRPG stories out there have an overpowered MC that basically marginalizes everybody else. So seeing the concept I enjoy with your ability to build up a great cast of allies and enemies around the MC, that are a genuine help/threat would be definitely something I love. Moreover seeing a character slowly grow in strength is appealing to me and I imagine that would be a focal point of this story. (Out of similar reasons I like story idea 3 the least.) For the questions: If you were suddenly granted a power like this, one that starts rather low-key and requires you to risk your life to grow stronger, what do you think you’d do with it? -Playing it safe sounds more realistic, maybe a party if possible. Would you try to keep it a secret or would you run into the streets, screaming to everyone that would listen that you have magic? -Pretty much keeping it a secret, with telling family and the closest friends as exception. Would you take risks to acquire more power or play it extremely safe? -As above, save. If you were approached by other players for cooperation, would you be suspicious of their motives or eager to cooperate for mutual gain? -Depends on the person, optimally would be other players with a close skill level to build trust and grow together. How would you react if the government tried to confiscate your hard-earned magical loot? -As long as I think I could get away with it and not be identified, keeping it. Is there any particular ‘build’ you would go for, assuming you could choose whatever you wanted? -More from a reader’s perspective, but summoning would be cool, especially if it includes sentient beings that could converse with the MC as I love the interaction between your characters. If it's planned that he is mostly in a party that would do the job as well. I just primarily hope that he isn't alone most of the time in the dungeon.

Anonymous

Thanks for the very good point. I wasn't thinking about the vast emergent gameplay and unpredictability roguelikes allow for. Even outside of roguelikes, I think your point holds to some extent with games like Minecraft, KSP, Prey and Dwarf Fortress. Interacting systems in games, as well as procedurality (which is itself a system of interacting components, I guess) can lend a lot to games. I'd argue though that many roguelikes are skin-deep as a result of their great reliance on procedurality, and after some time can become little more than a skinner's box. Personally, that gambling aspect turns me off after a while, because it starts to feel like the game is designed for retention and replayability more than meaningful enjoyment: such is my hesitancy towards procedural roguelikes, though it's probably just a matter of taste. Anyways, it would be very interesting to see how you approach writing a roguelike!

Anonymous

Not my favorite of the ideas, mostly because I still feel like it is vague in terms of characters. Would like to see how you build out the dungeon elements. Or House of Leaves style, what the exploration of these repetitive labyrinths does to the psyche. The dungeons themselves becoming an object of fascination and not simply the objects in them. Were I granted this power, I think it would depend on how much I could use the powers and equipment acquired to advance my existing plans. If they were all combat oriented, I would not care. If they could help one write or garden or teach then there would be temptation. I would tell people what I was doing only the extent required to gain entrance to a dungeon (word choice here is funny, there is an analogy to attending a kink club). Ideally, the dungeon crawl and my usual life would be kept separate - cooperation within the dungeon would be great so long as I expect my identity to be kept secret.

mant06

Would the magic skills here also be closer to magical martial arts and such, rather than standard spell casting.

nobody103

Yes. A person's ability (if they have it) can resemble a standard spell like invisibility or fireball, but everything else is more magical martial arts than flinging magical projectiles and whatnot.

BramBora

In litRPG the Numbers and Levels are often used as a crutch , and you dont need that (dont even get me started in abilities locked behind level numbers). Since you dont have any other driving cause, you will have to make the dungeon interesting on the overall level, not just the individual floors. Dont forget enough mystery , you will need it ;)

nyt

Noticed my reply to your reply was removed - Patreon told me some replies were marked as spam by a 3rd party provider but they've repopulated. Also wanted to let you know I came across a somewhat similar story concept on Royalroad: Dungeon Crawl Carl. I think it hits a lot of the overarching shape of your story idea, but without the real world element. It's pretty good.

Anonymous

There is a great system set up in TBATE - Relictombs

Anonymous

If you where to do this in a rogue like dynamic I always thought that dungeons can be a bit stale when grinding to get stronger is taking up lots of time. In one book I read there's the protagonist and he is flung into a scene it would always be completely random and every character has a task to complete on that stage/floor so one might be trying to overthrow the mayor while another might be trying to assassinate someone. There tasks would create competition between characters and clashes when tasks overlap which would be awesome with multiple character perspectives. the ones that succeed gain a reward I know it's not really dungeony but it's kind of the Idea that defeating the boss isn't the only ending and you can show of smarts and cunning because otherwise power leveling insues and it's always about the stats