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Angel || 4x20 || Discussion (Patreon)

Published:
2023-03-23 19:59:00
Edited:
2023-03-25 19:11:46
Imported:
Tags:

Content

4x20: "Sacrifice"

Next: Angel 4x21 on Sun 3/26 (maybe Mon)

edit: yes, it’ll be Mon!

YOOOOOOOO, THIS EPISODE WAS SO FRICKIN GOOD. I AM LOSING MY MARBLES RN!!

I absolutely loved this episode, it was soooo well done! and that preying mantis looking demon was soooo great. I can not get over this episode! I am so excited for the last two episodes of this season!! AHHHH

hope yall enjoyyy! :D

Files

Comments

Adam Session

Edlund writes 4 episodes of Season 5. Don't want to spoil anything, but one of them is my favorite of the series for non-story episodes and has a 9.3 rating. Abandon all Hope is my favorite of his Supernatural episodes.

Anonymous

Never seen “Supernatural” (plan to someday) but Ben Edlund is also the creator the big, blue bug of justice known as “The Tick”. He wrote, drew and published his own comic book in the mid-eighties and the character was later adapted into two live-action and an animated series. Any one of them is worth a watch.

lurker1316

The bookends in this episode are pretty solid. Someone who knows the truth has to live through this. Hearts get in the way. Talking about how it was odd that they needed to name her. Even the bit about what if they took Connor and he did wake up kind of comes back with the kid waking up and being under Jasmine's control. Love the way the episode sets itself up for its payoffs.

Jamie Morgan

Just gonna say this now because I feel like I don't see much discussion of it in the fandom, but Gina Torres absolutely KILLS IT as Jasmine! The way she treads the line between calming and creepy is masterful, and her accelerating descent into mania in this episode. I've come round to season 4 in a big way during your reactions, but even when I really hated it, this story arc was always one of my favourites in the Buffyverse, largely because of her performance. I also really like the way the demon's vernacular is written - not broken English exactly, but just...slightly wrong English. It's really interesting.

Matthew Garrison-Perkins

Why a 7.5 on iMDB? Witness the effect of cancel culture aimed in the wrong direction. S4 wasn't loved by the fandom, but a significant portion of the online hate is directed at this season of Angel due to Charisma Carpenters revelations about Joss Whedon's alleged and probably true very negative actions towards cast and crew. Its very revisionist. Even S6 and S7 of Buffy took online hits from essentially online protestors who never even watched the show. When you get done with S5 of Angel, dig into it. its the ugly side of both the television industry and the ugly side of social media protesting. Once you've researched the topic from multiple points of view, you'll have a better understanding. Its unfortunate for everyone involved.

Anonymous
>>104760969

There were no "alleged and probably true" negative actions. They were confirmed by practically every cast and crew member, not to mention the writers, to the point that everyone had a Joss story to share. And there's no revisionism here, Season 4 of Angel was ALWAYS disliked since it came out for poor storylines and bad treatment of characters.

Nebraska
>>104754074

I'd say at least two of them are worth a watch, but that one should watch all three to figure out which two.

FernWithy
>>104760969

People legit disliked these seasons from the time they aired. I like this part of S4, but the season preceding it was such a trash fire that they wouldn't have gotten a season 5 without promising some course corrections because they'd lost a LOT of goodwill. There are times you can say, "So, the toxic behavior was bad, but jeez, the writing was amazing!" (in fact, I'd say that for most of the series). But Joss's bullying and fury at CC's nerve at getting pregnant completely screwed up everything about s4 up to here. The art was actually corroded by the toxicity.

Matthew Garrison-Perkins
>>104762570

No revisionism?...what year did Angel S4 air? What year did iMDB begin tracking TV series likes? And yes, alleged. You and I weren't there. So the best I can truthfully state is it was "probably true". Don't attack the criticism by willfully ignoring the parts that don't fit your paradigm. It's unbecoming.

Matthew Garrison-Perkins
>>104762826

Interesting then that someone "the reactor" seem to be enjoying it quite a bit since she is watching it without foreknowledge of the behind the scenes ugliness. And leave the cast and crew alone. Instead, consider how well they did in spite of the ugliness.

Jeff Cornell

The spider creature reminds me so much of Gnarl from "Same Time, Same Place" that I always have to check imdb to be sure they're not the same actor.

TheEvilSmurf42
>>104760969

James Marsters stated in an interview with Michael Rosenbaum that Angel was canceled after season 4 and that one specific thing that Joss promised the studio saved the show. I can't say without spoilers. Frankly it's understandable that it was canceled. While the writing was always strong the choices the writers made in this season alienated a lot of their audience who just stopped watching it.

Ryan Powers
>>104760969

Season 4 was bottom of many people list (Connor is *not* well loved, and is a main focus of this season, regardless of Joss being an asshole) pretty much from when it came out. You can disagree about the quality of the season all you want, and Alley can disagree too. That's fine We don't all have to like the same things. But revisionism is a pretty strong word to be throwing around while you are a major perpetrator of the same. Lashing out at revisionism, while being *heavily* revisionist, and also lashing out at people for "willfully ignoring the parts that don't fit your paradigm." while you are doing *exactly* that is some pretty thoroughly impressive projection. Me? I don't think S4 is as bad as many do. But those impressions by many *way* predate issues with Joss.

Oxmustube

What have we learned today? Alley is slow-mo slut. No, wait! She's a slut for slow-mo...

Shaun Houghton
>>104771803

Apparently Alley is into people with a moustache and who can't run. Quite a select niche, but not judging.

TheyCallMeJeff

For me, this season is very much a paradox. I love the part of the story of heading into an almost religious-style end of the world with rain of fire and everything, those parts are great....then there's Connor and his relationship with Cordelia. As long as an episode does not remind me of that, I am fully enjoying the season. Also I liked Season 3, all the Darla and Holts stuff was interesting to me. Of course, the season ending the way it did was a big let down. Not as good as Season 2. I mean, it's hard to beat Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been, Darla, The Trial, Reunion, and Epiphany.

Cameron Lapp
>>104759878

It's also worth noting that both Gina Torres & Nathan Fillion are Firefly alum on the shows right now :D

El
>>104760969

you're literally the one claiming people liked the episode more at the time and have since gone back and changed their opinions based on new information about Joss and the behind the scenes stories, and people are responding with evidence that plenty of people disliked this season and these episodes from the start. you are painting a fictionalized, a.k.a. revisionist, version of that history. not to mention, you opened with outright hostility ranting about 'cancel culture' (not a real thing, btw) and apparently people who have never watched the show giving it low ratings (also a thing that doesn't happen, or if it does, is so rare it won't make a blip in the imdb rating) so it's kind of hard to take your argument seriously.

Matthew Garrison-Perkins
>>104799338

Once again, you're putting meaning behind words I didn't write. A significant portion liked the episode and S4. 1% is significant by definition. Cancel culture certainly exists, it has by many different names throughout written history. Compare the number of children named Adolf worldwide prior to Ww2 and after. Or for a more recent example, how many films or TV series has the amazing actor Kevin Spacey been in since the allegations about his possible sexual assults? Bill Cosby? Paula Deen? Paul Rueben? Ok now on to the iMDB ratings. Many non viewers of the show posted negative ratings on platforms like iMDB against many targets for many different reasons, but the most likely was social media pressure. As IMDB wasn't gathering likes when many of these targeted shows were originally airing, there are, with relative certainty, a number of them who voted negatively due to what they heard or read about on social media. If you read my post, you'll understand quickly nothing I said was offensive. I was stating my opinion, and because I didn't declare, without reservation or first hand knowledge, that that Joss Whedons transgressions were true and not alleged, albeit by many who worked with him, I've received nothing but griefer comments. I understand some of the commenters may not be fully fluent in English, but most of you probably are. Therefore, I can only assume some of the commenters are being willfully ignorant to try to win an online argument to confirm their internal paradigm.

Graeme McCutcheon

Was looking up IMDB during the episode, was thinking I know the actor from somewhere. Think you called it at the end - was probably just thinking of that monster from Buffy. However, apparently we have seen him before - turns out he was one of the Watcher's council thugs in the Faith sequence in Buffy S4 / Angel S1!

Milamber
>>104760969

Lololol you are a riot. You should take this show on the road. And by that I mean get outta here.

SweetSummit
>>104760969

@Matthew Garrison-Perkins As others have done a far better job than I at replying to you, I really only have one thing to say. You have mentioned once that someone ought to look up the definition of something before replying to you. You have also mentioned that some fellow commenters may not speak English as their first language and therefore would not be able to be as capable of commenting as you can. On four occasions you referred to the website IMDb as iMDB, which of course stands for the Internet Movie Database, hence why the 'b' is lower case and the 'I' is upper case. I would politely suggest before you go around throwing accusations of people not speaking English as their first language or looking up definitions of things before commenting, that you do the same. Thank you. Much love.

Patrick Armbruster
>>104760969

The episode has 1364 votes as of just now. We're definitely _not_ talking "the ugly side of social media protesting". And if the episode went from 7.7 (2015) to 7.5 (2023), maybe the news had an impact. I mean: Why shouldn't they.

Macca Fan
>>104760969

Why should he leave? The right to have a differing opinion is still alive and well. Your comment supports his cancel culture theory.

Corey Wolf

Sounded like Brent Spiner to me. (Data from Star Trek Next Generation)

Andy

Is that creature better than Dinza? I don't thinks so. "She's far from you champion and needs you no longer."