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Buffy the Vampire Slayer || 6x15 || Discussion **please read below before watching** (Patreon)

Published:
2022-07-23 19:01:01
Imported:
2022-07

Content

6x15: "As You Were"

Next: Angel 3x15 on Sat 7/30 (taking Wed off bc its a double upload day bc of my mistake lmao)

--> okay SO... funny story.. I sat down to make this video and clicked "6x16" instead of this episode to watch and did not realize my mistake until AFTER I was already done with the episode 😀 haha.... yeah lmaooo

so you guys can watch both of these episodes one of two ways, just the normal way, 6x15 then 6x16

OR if you wanna see how I saw it:

- watch 6x16 Hell's Bell's all the way through until I realize my mistake and stop it (00:46:49)

- watch the entire 6x15 As You Were video

- go back and finish 6x16 Hell's Bells starting around 00:46:49 for the review of that episode

I really wasn't sure how to edit these because it was kinda all over the place, so I decided to just try and edit like I normally would, but if you would like to go on that insane journey of watching the wedding episode and THEN the one where Riley comes back... there u go! haha


SO ANYWAYS... yeah, perhaps I shoulda let this one be a skipped one <3 lmaooo Im kidding Im kidding! It was interesting getting to see the drama of it all with him coming back /with a WIFE/ and also the drama of Spike and Buffy.... which sheesh their scenes...... ENOUGH... "Im sorry William"??? SHUT THE FUCK UP. LIKE ACTUALLY WHAT THE FUCK??!

lmaooo okayyy okay, so yeah, happy double upload day! sorry for any confusion for watching, hopefully both these episodes (maybe this one more than the next) you can just have fun with the chaos that happened due to my mistake lmao.

Files

Comments

Terri

I always though it was particularly nice that Buffy use's Spike's real name during the breakup scene. In season 5 season finale Spike says "I know you'll never love me. I know that I'm a monster. But you treat me like a man and that's..." The feelings between Buffy/Spike are so complex that even the writers disagreed on which way they wanted to drive the relationship. That's why some episodes you get an actual romance and others you see it as a downward spiral of Buffy's depression. So honestly don't feel guilty kind of shipping them. The way the write it is very confusing. They throw in lines that support Buffy actually having some real feelings for him and others that don't. Also, interesting to note in this episode Spike seems to not care if Buffy is just using him. Yet, in Once More With Feeling he sings about her using him and basically framing it like he doesn't like it. So either he is getting more desperate or again...the writers are all over the place with the characterization.

Giorgia M

This episode is such a weird one. I liked a lot of Buffy and her character progress. The Spike situation still makes no sense no matter how many times I rewatch. It’s not because Spike is too good to do something evil but the way it’s done and the info we get doesn’t add up to me. It’s very confusing and bad writing honestly! It could’ve been a better episode, there was potential for more.

Ron Fehr

One thing that I like is that they didn't make Sam into a bad person. She realized that she said something wrong when bringing up Willow using magic, and she apologized to her for it. Any other type of person for Riley just wouldn't seem right.

Alley Box
>>88250222

no fr.. i was expecting it to turn out that riley framed him or something bc like??? since when does he do this kinda evil stuff? i think someone made a comment tht maybe he did it to get money to help buffy, but they didn’t make that a point to mention, so the whole “imma hold these eggs for a friend bc im evil” is so strange

SpikesEcho
>>88250222

Yeah like, kitten poker to international arms dealing?? Just not Spike's style. Nor is going by some other name like "the Doctor". Very bizarre choice in the writing

alex
>>88250222

I wish they had re-mentioned it, but a few episodes ago when Buffy was miserable at doublemeat, she says she is there for the money, and Spike says 'I can get you money' or something like that, and only in this rewatch with you did I decide that that kinda feels like ok justification for this episode and the whole doctor crap

Giorgia M
>>88250222

Yes it’s definitely one of the only Buffy episodes I can remember where I have to jump to conclusions and fill in the gaps to make the story cohesive. Thankfully the whole focus wasn’t on the spike reveal it was more about Buffy finding herself again so him supposedly being “the doctor” didn’t matter as much. However, Spike is not on the internet dealing international arms. He is smart but c’mon, he doesn’t even have a phone. If he was really holding them for someone else who was dealing them, in an attempt to make money for Buffy, then why wouldn’t he continue to say that instead of just sort of accepting it at the end? I don’t know there’s loads of stuff Spike could’ve done that could have triggered the break up without this. The more I think about it, the more questions I have 😂 Spike was framed? Spike was the doctor? They are all about as plausible as each other with the lack of information we have.

tc3
>>88250222

I can see the Sunnydale Press headline in the following morning’s newspaper: Vampire Caught in Evil Act Must be Someone Else’s Fault Unrelated Note? Orphanage receives an influx of cash from anonymous donor I do agree that the writing could’ve been better. Because of course it could. I generally prefer foreshadowed events to surprise twists, however Spike has had to adapt ever since the chip was implanted in his head. Can’t kill humans? I’ll kill demons. Can’t physically hurt Buffy? I’ll manipulate her friends into pulling away from her. No longer with Harmony (who was willing to role play) and can’t get Buffy to love me? I’ll commission a sexbot… With the fact this doesn't seem like something he would've done in the past, isn’t it possible that it's one of the ways he has adapted to his circumstances? Either way; whether he really was holding them for a friend (unlikely since that was a deliberate, on the writer's part, cliched response to being caught with drugs) or was selling them as the doctor (I think the truth is somewhere in between, the name definitely didn't make sense to Spike, but he was aware of the eggs) I don't think he was doing a noble thing. He could've easily told Buffy at the wedding (if not before) that he was trying to get money for her. So for me that's an easy thing to scratch off the list.

Giorgia M
>>88250222

@tc3 I am making no statements about Spike’s good moral fibre. He would’ve 100% stolen, lied, sold stuff on some black market etc whatever. That’s not my point. It’s more that the way the writers have written it doesn’t make sense, from the doctor code name, spike being savvy enough to have went online and already set up a sale of the eggs to some random country as weapons but not knowing to keep them refrigerated or frozen 😂 I don’t know. I wish the writers team wasn’t so mixed on Spike so we could get a more well rounded consistent characterisation. Rather than spike bad therefore we can write in any crime and say it was him no matter how illogical the methods of the crime for his character is. It could’ve worked with just a little bit more information or framing I think. But alas !!!

tc3
>>88250222

Hi Giorgia M, sorry about that. I was trying to make a more general statement. I knew you weren't trying to say Spike is too good, you flat out said as much in your original post, so apologies if that was implied in my comment. I have a simple headcanon that works for me (the adaptation thing + he's still trying to figure things out + Riley's info isn't 100%), so it's something I can file under "could've been done better but I get it". I fully agree with you about the writing in this episode (if the writers were mixed on him in general I think it still works; we can see glimpses of positive aspects but then see as he always regresses to the mean).

Jaren
>>88250222

Spike doesn’t seem like the type to have limits on what he’ll do for money. 😂 I might be the only one who doesn’t think it’s not in his character.

Giorgia M
>>88250222

Hey tc3, I totally get you now! I think I just took you the wrong way there. Yeah I think that framing it as spike adapting but also Riley not having correct info makes more sense and helps alleviate the brain pain. Thank you!

Giorgia M
>>88250222

@Jaren Yeah I actually agree with you !!! It’s more that I can’t see him on the internet trading international arms because that seems too high level of a crime for him and him having the doctor as his name 😂

Cory Garron

I was never much of a Riley fan (although hes not bad in season 4), but more than 20 years later, over a dozen viewings, countless hours reading and debating in Buffy forums, but he's mostly pretty good in his return (sans his withholding info for dramatic effect at the beginning). He's back in season 4 form, and really helps Buffy out. She's pretty far down throughout most of this episode, maybe her lowest. I've grown to have a mature pride for both Riley and Buffy at the end of this episode (despite the cheesy helicopter exit). Good for you Buffy, begin that ascent, you know you'll be the better for it. And Spike would obviously have no ethical qualms about selling the eggs to the highest bidder. But it's absolutely not his style. If only they could have come up with a better way to remind us of what he actually is, a soulless thing, anthropomorphized. It's taken me nearly two decades to get over some petty differences, but I love you Buffy.

Chess Red Eagle

I guess I'm in the minority here but I've always really liked this episode. When I heard that it has that low 6 rating I was genuinely surprised.

Ron Fehr
>>88321644

I personally wouldn't have rated it very high, but I wouldn't have rated it that low either. I think ratings are always a but subjective. There are always opinions involved.

Anonymous

I have been wearing my Bike shipper glasses on for more than 20 years and the reason he was “the Doctor” is to get Buffy money. He tells her in Dead Things that he can get money for her. Money must have been damn good. It was his sick vampire way of proving for her or just trying to.

Rockyslide4 4

Kind of funny how the episode she accidentally skipped is one of the most skippable episodes of the entire show. Not to mention lucky - imagine how confusing it would've been with, say, episodes 7 and 8 instead.

hannemanart

Ugh... Riley....

Steve Quast

Maybe your mistake was really orchestrated by the universe to keep you from having to see Riley again. Almost dodged a bullet, but not quite.

Ron Fehr
>>88357948

I think we needed this episode for closure though. Now Buffy doesn't have to think about him anymore. He's doing okay.

Dee Aitch
>>88319760

The way it was written, it almost feels like he wasn't the doctor, and he was just "holding them for a friend". The doctor reveal was just so awkward and not in character. Yes, I see spike holding the little nasties for someone else to get a nice payday, not caring about what menace they will do later. But he doesn't strike me as an international arms broker.

Anonymous
>>88319760

The episode leaves room to internalize your pick: - yes he is the doctor. - no he was just holding for a friend. He doesn’t always defend himself beyond the initial protest (followed by Huff, whatever). {Also, there is only one The Doctor, the original you might say}

Marie Green

I'm not a big fan of Riley, but there's a lot to love in this episode. I laughed heartily multiple times. "My hat has a cow." XD The humor is great, the character work on Buffy is great. It's Riley's odd blankness and the bizarre conclusion to "the doctor" plot that makes the episode a little weak. I think this episode would have worked better if it had been Angel who returned rather than Riley, although of course that couldn't happen due to the shows being on different networks with no crossovers. But if it had been Angel, the final speech would have hit deeper. They wouldn't have had to come up with some global demon threat (the definition of Riley's job) to make Spike responsible for. It could have just been some magical doodad that Spike stole. Plus it would have been awesome to see Angel (and maybe Cordelia!) reunite with the gang. Riley not telling Buffy about the demon or being married during that whole long car ride reminds me of that Lemon of Troy scene in the Simpsons: "Are you sure it wouldn't be faster to just tell us what happened?" "No! I said there's no time to explain and I stick by that."

ghostofdurruti
>>88324836

The "why" of it isn't the problem for me--Spike would totally pull some stupid, dangerous scheme for cash even without any particular need to do so (and yes, Buffy's financial problems probably gave him extra incentive)--but rather the "how". We're really supposed to believe *Spike* has connections to "foreign military powers" (and somehow arranged for the demon and it's eggs to be smuggled into Sunnydale in the first place)? It stretches credulity, to say the least...

Joshua Gosdin

I f*cking LOVE Dawn in this episode. Several times throughout the show, but particularly this season, Dawn SQUARES UP on Buffy's behalf. Like in "After Life" when she literally shouted down the rest of the gang when they were crowding Buffy. Here, Dawn's coldest of shoulders towards Riley makes me love her so much. The sisterly bond is strong between the two of them.

Loves Bitca
>>88248461

Even in OMWF, he sang that she was using him, and if that was the case to let him rest in peace, but he was still following her and blocking her exit as he told her to leave him alone. Even then he was being contradictory as the writers intended. Even when she ran off he said "So you're leaving?" as though he expected and wanted her to stay while he was telling her to leave him alone.

Holi117

Ahhh.. THIS episode. Riley says “i dont have time, sorry to drop in suddenly at your work that i have no idea about since i just arrived covertly… we are tracking a rare, almost extinct demon. They breed so damn fast, we kill one and a dozen seem to show up in its place…” But didnt you JUST say it was super rare?! Now you say in THE NEXT SCENE that its a breeding machine?! Hmmmmm. So in your rush, how did you find Buffy? Did you call Xander? Or Willow? Stop at the house looking for her there first? Did they tell you where Buffy would be? If you were in a rush, why not have them call her at work or something? Maybe you wanted to just drop in all commando-y. Or maybe you didnt just drop in. Maybe you went to her house last night, spied on her and Spike and found out where she works so you could drop in the next night in your big ole rushy rush.. maybe that’s why you dont seem surprised to find Spike and Buffy together at his crypt? Cos you already knew? And how did you go that long talking about crap and not mention that you were married!! You’ve been gone like 11 months, 13 at most! You managed to get over the “love of your life” meet somebody new, date them AND marry them?? But then dont mention them until they literally show up and announce themself? I swear, i truly dont believe Spike was the doc. Where would he have the connections to be an international demon arms dealer?! He blatently WAS holding them for somebody else for some quick cash, and had no idea what they were or what to do with them. We have seen Spike lie (Spike who very rarely lies), and i’m pretty sure if he knew what was going on he wouldnt have hung out casual with Buffy in the crypt and both fallen asleep… gah! I hate this episode so much! And in my long opinion lol, i truly think Buffy ending things by using Spike’s human name was a kick in the teeth. She keeps saying he is dead inside, a soulless thing, disgusting with no feelings. Then calls him William?! Just to break him more, or is she that clueless for real? Ergh! I hate it all lol