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RWBY Volume 7 Episode 12 Reaction (Patreon)

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2024-06-15 16:00:05
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Early ad-free access for our RWBY Volume 7 Episode 12 reaction

Comments

Wulves Gaming

Amazing reaction! I already put this on Episode 11 of Volume 7 but I'm going to add it here as well. I would love to see a reaction and hear your guys opinion to RWBY related videos within the future. Both videos are by EruptionFang. The Wasted Potential of Adam Taurus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZiQAq_nf1s Lusus Naturae EXPLAINED! (RWBY Soundtrack Analysis) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lyGDPS_-A None of these a spoilers to Volume 7 or future volumes. The first video stops at Volume 6 and the second video is related to Volume 4 since the song is in the soundtrack.

Historia-Europa

Part of why Clover might have been attacking both was because he might have overherd Tyrian suggesting he and Qrow work together.

Alex Smith

Super Happy Fun Times might be over for a while lol. And yea, I think the way the whole Clover/Qrow fight plays out is frustrating. Part of me wants to say it doesn't make sense from a writing point of view, but also sometimes real people do stupid shit.

Sol-Edge

Great reaction yaw, I am so excited for yaws reaction to the last episode of Vol.7 and then the start of Vol. 8, I do believe that Qrow was in a lose/lose situation whether he allied with Tyrion or not, the moment Clover chose to attack Qrow over Tyrion is what made Qrow have to choose the decision he made.

Jennywocky

I see it more like Bethany as far the Qrow/Clover/Tyrian mess. There is a moment early on where Clover could have joined Qrow to remove Tyrian ... and instead he puts Qrow in the middle and attacks HIM. I'm not quite sure Qrow ever overtly allied with Tyrian, it's just that he had to prevent Clover from dropping him and Tyrian kept inserting himself and Qrow went with it -- I'm not sure what else he would have been expected to do. But there was that fateful moment when Clover could have joined Qrow and instead attacked him.... because he "believes in James with his life." But Qrow will forever be rocked by this and second-guess himself over how he got aligned with Tyrian in that moment. I think Clover made a big mistake but I like that it was born out of trust in James' choices -- it makes the situation more complicated. I like that every one of the ASOCs has a different reaction to fighting team RWBY. But this is starting to get into some of my frustrations with the ASOCs, esp Harriet and Elm. I understand them, but I just want to slap them sometimes. You both mentioned some of the best lines in the episode: - RUBY: "You were... but then you trained us." - PENNY: "It gives me... PERSONAL FEELINGS!" Despite what Tyrian does in the end, I still always burst out laughing when Qrow asks him what he's doing and he shouts, "THE WILL! OF! OUR GODDESS!" before running the plane into the ground. He's just such a total nutjob and so over the top. It's important to track Penny and Winter's relationship. I like that they do NOT fight each other. We are seeing their friendship, where they both have different opinions, yet both feel free to state them without fear of losing that friendship. They are both flip sides of a coin (the human who tries to bury her feelings to follow orders, the machine trying to understand human feelings), and they have a special bond that way. We haven't really seen a maiden with the power of two seasons. Cinder is just too greedy/voracious to assume it's not possible, plus she needs all the relics for Salem; but basically we see that the aura of the dying maiden merges or is subsumed into the aura of the new maiden, so I guess it would be possible? (This is what was happening in Beacon when they tried to merge Amber's aura with Pyrrha's, just via a machine, and Pyrrha knew it would change her in the process -- and it's kind of parallel to Ozma's reincarnation on a surface level where the aura transfers and the old Ozma and all of those old lives merges into the new self.) So it sounds feasible but I don't know if there would be complications.

Joaquin Benally

One thing that annoyed me with the Ace Ops was that they couldn't listen to reason or make their own choices but then yes they're soldiers following orders. Harriet is annoying, thank you Weiss for that ice wall. I'm glad Yang's starting to use her semblance the smart way. Happy that Weiss won a one on one fight kind of. Sorry Oscar but ain't no way Neo would allow herself to get hit like. So excited for the final episode reaction I can't wait for the discussion what you about the episode. Volume 8 is my favorite volume can't wait for you guys to jump into it.

Mrbluegrand

I mean Robin started that fight... 🤦🏼‍♂️ plus, i think Clover only aimed to take away Qrow's weapon since he eventually did.

Megan Saunders

Great reactions - I've seen arguments for both sides. I look at it in the sense that their Semblances tipped the balance. From Clover's perspective - I have a good luck Semblance. Qrow has a bad luck Semblance and my boss wants him arrested. I also know - from working with him for months - that Qrow is exceptionally good at fighting, and my Semblance might be negated by his. If I take out Qrow first, then no bad luck in my fight with Tyrian, and my good luck Semblance should give me the edge in the fight. From Qrow's perspective - I know Tyrian is a threat and Clover has become a threat because he won't go after me. Clover didn't listen to me in the airship when I tried to talk him and Robyn down, and he didn't listen to me when I was checking on Robyn, so trying to talk him down now is pointless. I've nearly beaten Tyrian before, and this time I don't have to protect Ruby, so I can put my full focus and my full Semblance on Tyrian once Clover is out of the way and not interfering with me and my weapon anymore, and his good luck won't interfere with my ability to hamper Tyrian. From Tyrian's perspective: Chaos! Murder! Death! Also, regarding the scene with Oscar and the others.... Oscar is the first good guy to actually land a punch on Neo in the series. Neo owned Yang in Volume 2, she and Torchwick together owned Ruby in Volume 3 and Neo only lost to Ruby because Ruby out thought her by triggering her parasol and causing her to fly away from Ironwood's captured ship. And finally: RWBY vs. AceOps. Team RWBY really dominated this fight because they care about each other and worked together (Blake and Yang, and Ruby and Weiss). You had the two speedsters (Ruby and Harriet) keeping each other busy, Marrow didn't really want to fight at all and was kind of forced to fight Weiss, otherwise she would have been unchecked by anyone, and Blake and Yang have perfected their partnership/teamwork, which Marrow pointed out in a previous chapter during the montage scene of them being Huntresses. Elm and Vine did ok in managing to capture Blake at first, but then Yang provoked Elm into letting Blake go, and that really turned the tide of the fight there.

Marcel Hoyt

So glad you guys highlighted that BOTH QROW and CLOVER were wrong in their decisions with Tyrian. Some have always done it one sided and either blaming just CLOVER or Moreso QROW was blamed the most

Hayden Morris

Interesting how you said clovers good luck came to an end. When qrow broke his aura, he couldn't have his semblance anymore, so what you said was very literally true. But the bad luck was still present...

Erimgard13

So when Tyrian first says "let's put the kid to bed," the following shot is pretty quick, but Qrow first tries to strike Tyrian, and Clover intervenes. It's only after that Qrow teams up with Tyrian. Really tragic all around

Marcel Hoyt

SALEM created thst GRIMM arm on CINDER with the purpose of acquiring all the maidens powers in hopes that she could obtain their powers with the ultimate purpose of opening all the vaults and acquiring all the relics. So I'd say yes she can gain all the powers of all maidens. Vol 8 will make that clear

Serpent King

One detail, Clover's aura broke when Qrow punched him, which means his semblance would also stop...meaning that the only luck around is Qrow's bad luck...

Marcel Hoyt
>>140939153

Maybe because they brought up the topic of IF it's possible for CINDER to acquire all the maiden powers if you paid any mind to their discussion after they viewed the episode 🤔

Pluto

Clovers death is literally so tragic because it could have been so easily avoided. I find that in media, the deaths that hit the hardest are those that were felt nearly unnecessary because of the choices the characters made. If Clover had NOT gone for Qrow, the two wouldn't have made lethal blows and could have teamed up against Tyrian, so Clover wouldn't have died. If Qrow DIDNT align with Tyrian (defended against both) then Tryian wouldnt've had an opportunity to kill Clover. It's just a tragic situation in which both parties made decisions that led to this.

DevilJynx

I remember a lot of back and forths over RWBY beating The Ace-Ops and I wanna factor in these things I used to defend the creative decision's outcome. 1: RWBY is as united as they've ever been. Blake and Yang have sorted out their disputes, Weiss is Ruby's partner, and Ruby is confident in her decisions, even if there is a weighted risk or even if she makes a bad call. She accepts failure as part of the schema of being a leader. 2: The Ace-Ops were trained and created to be a cooperative team that form the arms, legs, and head of a single unit. Against RWBY they had the arms and legs, but the head was elsewhere. Clover had been calling the plays and was the brains of their combat tactics. 3: RWBY were as I said, unified in their decision to oppose Ironwood, but The Ace-Ops were all conflicted. Marrow wanted RWBY to surrender and hated that he had to fight them as he had grown to really like them. Elm was fighting herself as hard as she thought she was fighting Blake and Yang, which in turn is why Vine was left vulnerable. Harriet is just a brain washed zealot that simps hard for Ironwood and his power plays. 4: Given the combat the two teams had been through, I'd say RWBY were at about 80-85% of their strength while the Ace-Ops were at maybe 50%. Consider that The Ace-Ops would be the ones tackling the majority of the combat while RWBY and ORNJ were supporting them and naturally, The Ace-Ops would fight the more stronger Grimm and take most of the damage. I mean Harriet damn near got crushed by an Elephant. 5: RWBY can fight together as efficiently as they can solo. The Ace-Ops are too reliant on team work and a team fighting itself is doomed to fail. It's a weird case of where Chaos triumphs over Order in a way that's sensible. RWBY are all chaotic good characters, going off of D&D, while the Ace-Ops are all lawful good. I do think the writers could have given more exposure to the fact that Atlas had been run ragged by showing exhausted and wounded soldiers scattered in the background during the latter end of the battle in Episode 10, but all the same, it's there, you just have to think about it. I also need to address the elephant in the room and say that fight between Clover, Qrow, and Tyrian, while choreographed well, and animated well, was such a hamfisted way to kill off Clover. They made him and Robyn look like complete morons and buffoons and I was iffy on Robyn to begin with. Clover should have prioritized the serial killer over his former ally, but he didn't... It makes 0 sense; he's an elite military commander, he should know how to prioritize and plan accordingly in a situation like this. Obviously, Qrow is not going to kill Clover or even try to, he should know that, but he acts more like a damn robot who can't do basic arithmatic. I like this volume a lot, but this was by far the biggest stain on this volume for me. Edit: I will never not love how Tyrian wears the pilot's cap as he crashes the ship. Tyrian is arguably the best villain of the show, top 3 at the very least.

Tatsumi Ga Kill

You will soon learn that Harriet is one of the worst characters in RWBY

Inifus
>>140934392

That would be an excellent point... if he hadn't gone after Qrow *before* Tyrian made that suggestion. Tyrian came out, Qrow went after him, and Clover went after Qrow. Clover tunnel-visioned on Qrow while the serial killer was right in front of them.

Inifus
>>140938978

Let's be a bit more fair to Qrow - he was put in a fully lose/lose scenario. He tried to be the voice of reason while the ship was still flying, Robin screwed that up. He immediately went after Tyrian when that threat emerged, Clover attacked him from behind. He was stuck in the situation of either fighting one of them or fighting both of them... Clover was stubborn to an unreasonably and unrealistic extent - the only thing Qrow could have done better in that situation would have been trying to vocally get Clover to stop being an idiot and to instead work together vs Tyrian.

SavvySpark
>>140940461

It could have been avoided with better writing. Such a waste of a character that could have added so much especially with his dynamic with Qrow.

SavvySpark

Not going to lie, if I ranked every RWBY episode, this one would be at the very bottom of the list. One or two good moments, but overall just kinda meanders to get where it needs to get for the finale. And don’t even get me staton Clovers death. They really had to contrive that one and make both him and Qrow complete morons. And while I get Qrow being pissed at Ironwood, blaming him for Clovers death was just stupid.

Jeff

It's understandably hard to parse on first watch, but Clover fought Qrow and Tyrion simultaneously at least in part because of his semblance. He's had good luck all his life, he doesn't have to prioritize like normal people (much less Qrow). His mission is capture both fugitives and so he went after both fugitives. Qrow's unwillingness to fight made him the easier target by far, if Clover's lucky (and he's always lucky) he can take him down quickly and move on to Tyrion. Problem is Qrow's semblance is also at play still and while that's something everyone else is used to contending with on some level, Clover isn't. It's significantly easier to adapt to good fortune than it is bad. Qrow also never teamed up with Tyrion. He just stopped going after him because every time he tried Clover took advantage of him. Qrow never supported Tyrion once in that fight. He even almost slashed Tyrion when Clover threw him at Qrow. Tyrion still had to dodge Qrow's blade despite not being it's target. If he had been considered an ally of any sort, Qrow would have stopped or adjusted his swing. Tyrion on the other hand knew exactly how to manipulate everyone present. Once Qrow stopped targeting him, he started actively supporting Qrow's actions. You know that had to piss Qrow off every time which is Tyrion's way of still doing damage to him. Come the finale though Qrow was physically still capable of fighting he had suffered so much psychological damage that he couldn't commit to it anymore. Even though he didn't work with Tyrion, because Tyrion worked with him he still felt guilty as though he had. He didn't cause Clover's death in any reasonable way, but he feels like he did. Tyrion on a small scale showed what makes Salem most dangerous. Together his captors defeated him relatively easily. Divided he defeated them with similar ease.

Jeff
>>140939153

My guy you're missing the point. You offer answers from content they haven't watched yet. Know what that's called? There was plenty of discussion and questions back in Vol 1, did you share revelations from vol 6 back then?

Marcel Hoyt
>>140939153

Yall are really taking this a little too seriously. FIRST OFF, it's common sense. In VOL 5 when CINDER revealed her GRIMM ARM trying to steal the MAIDEN powers from RAVEN as the SRPING MAIDEN what do you think she was trying do then??. So obviously it would stand to reason that she CAN and INTENDS to steal ALL the Maidens' powers to ultimately appease SALEM and her goals of unlocking all the vaults and retrieve all the relics for her. I think it's a big DUH. If you don't like my comment, roll your eyes and scroll on bye. MIght I also add, that it's always the ones WITHOUT a face showing In their profiles that are the most bold and extra with their comments 🤔 😅

El Patitas de Molcajete Takamachi

Uuff... Boy. Esto escaló muy rápido. Solo vengo a decir que Clover se lo merecía. Saludos 🇲🇽🫰🏻

Jeff
>>140936695

Good rundown, just wanted to throw out there they're called the Ace-Ops (ace operatives) not ASOCs. It's a play on Aesop's fables, who each of them are based on. Harriet is the hare from the tortoise and the hare for example, and as such is hasty in everything she does ("I had you kids pegged from the start"). I'm less familiar with the other's so can't reference them as easily but same deal.

Lucifer_Crowe
>>140940461

Clover was willing to fight them both, what's hard to understand about that? That's who he was, nothing more.

Terrafan

Tyrian was the kingmaker in that fight, and sadly Qrow was caught between Clover who was barely attacking Tyrian, and Tyrian who would fight anyone he could get an advantage on. Bethany is absolutely correct in her analysis of the fight. If Clover had concentrated on Tyrian, Qrow would have never had to go after him.

Terrafan
>>140937021

Yep. Robin grabbed the idiot ball, completely and then handed it off to cover who ran it in for a goal.

Serpent King
>>140940461

Ehhhh just watching the scene, it seemed like Clover was going after Qrow, and not really Tyrian at all. Hell more than once Clover stopped Qrow from striking Tyrian.

Squiddy

Lots of things to say about this episode. I think personally that Qrow never intended to team up with Tyrian or even aid him. But it's harder to fight when Clover is yanking him and his scythe around with a fishing hook. It was probably more out of necessity because of Clover's good luck countering his bad luck. And Qrow's bad luck never deactivates, so he's adapted it into his fighting style. The one thing I don't understand is why Clover says that someone had to take the fall, when the 3 of them were on a plane with a mass murderer. That part never made any sense to me, because there is a huge threat worth paying attention to right in front of everyone's eyes. It was a completely avoidable situation in regards to his actions. Another thing is that when Winter was speaking to Penny, she says something along the lines of acknowledging your personal feelings and wrestling with them is what makes us human. But if I'm remembering Ironwood's semblance correctly, he doesn't have to do this. That fits in line with his character being robotic and parts of him being metal, but that makes me wonder if she knows his semblance?

ArcaneAnomaly
>>140940823

"Clover should have prioritized the serial killer over his former ally" Not just serial killer, KNOWN AGENT OF SALEM. A person willingly working for the person TRYING TO DESTROY THE WORLD. And Clover prioritizes attacking Qrow over that person. Honestly, that still kinda makes me mad.

Mrbluegrand
>>140938470

Tyrian's perspective 😂. For Qrow's perspective i think you should watch that scene again with him trying to talk Clover and Robyn down, since Robyn was the one starting it all by shooting Clover. <3

Jeff
>>140939153

Had that been your reasoning in the first post there'd have been no issue, as that's fair deductive reasoning. Instead you mentioned an unwatched volume. The only bold or extra thing here is your tourette style capitalization lol. And it's the internet, just because there's A face on your profile doesn't make it YOUR face. Or did you never consider that? Which is to say, having a faceless profile is in a way more honest, as it recognizes the unverifiable nature of the medium. Not that it matters in any way. But since you felt the need to go there... might as well.

SK- Eferthigra

this is my favourite episode of all of rwby by a large margin cause both of those fights have rather unexpected endings that make so much sense now you basically already cracked the qrow terian and clover fight clover valued his orders more than the right thing as that's how he was trained qrow wasn't getting anywhere deescalating thanks to robin and forced to work with terian to save himself leaving terian with an overwhelming advantage as for the ace ops verse team rwby the ace ops were the stronger team by far the issue is non of them were working together while ruby and weise were teaming up and helping each other and blake and yang were teaming up and helping each other hair and marrow were fighting each other and one opponent each and elm and vine were fighting each other and one opponent each so that line when we first meet the ace ops how the don't consider each other family how they follow orders not bond that's what led to there downfall they couldn't work together they all had different opinions on what to do both these fights tell so much about the charters with little to no dialog and its amazing

Rinnzu Rosendale

Clover was exclusively targeting qrow. Qrow did try reasoning with Clover. He had to choose, focus on clover or die

Marcel Hoyt
>>140939153

Hey guess what? I'm not here to appease you dude. I was just having a discussion with the lovely folks that created this patreon and you got all butthurt because I didn't explain something to YOUR LIKING? 🤣🤣. Sorry I hurt you so badly, but for the sake of not going on with this childish argument and also considering this is not YOUR patreon, I'm going to leave you alone. Pretty sure my comments never bothered them in the first place. Sorry you're boring and easily offended by my comments 😅🤭

Davie Campbell

I want to start out by saying I love this episode, I really do. Having said that, I think the clover/qrow/tyrian fight is honestly just down to bad writing. Everything we have seen of clover up to this point suggests that he wouldn't go through with those orders. All his talk about leaving Remnant in a better state for the next generation, all the support and genuine kindness, it just felt like it was all leading up to clover turning on ironwood. Clover is a smart and level headed man and I honestly can't believe that he would choose to go after qroe first. It feels contrived for the sake of giving us a character death. If we really want 5o get technical on who's fault it was however, I'd say the blame lies solely with Robyn. Qrow was willing to go back to the Academy with Clover to talk to Ironwood, he wasn't putting up a fight. Robyn took the first shot, started the fight and it was her deflected shot that broke tyrians restraints. I like robyn a lot but everything that happens after is on her as far as I'm concerned.

Moonas

For me it is Clover fault, if he will not attack Qrow during fight with Tyrian he wouldn't die.

BlakStatik23

Welcome to the episode of RWBY where most people deem as the adults losing all capability to make reasonable decisions. The option to just sit tight until they got to Atlas and were able to talk to Ironwood was presented multiple times by multiple people and yet for some reason or another, none of them actually ended up accepting that. I actually have no clue why Robyn got so upset that she had to fire the first shot, I have no clue what made them think fighting with a Mass Murderer on the ship was going to do any sort of good. They were all incredibly stupid and Qrow thinking that Clover was going to be ok after all that was also very stupid. The fight looks nice but no matter what, both of those characters as Professional Huntsmen should've prioritized Tyrian. That look Qrow gave Tyrian when they were standing beside each other like he begrudgingly agreed to work with him for this moment, that's when I knew that Qrow had joined the stupid crew as well. The writing never makes much sense to me at this particular portion.

Dragon Huntress

There are many torn opinions about this episode, understandably so, but imo this entire Clover/Qrow/Tyrian sequence can be explained in two mere words ... emotional turmoil. People tend to shit on Clover, but there is reason he is the leader of the Ace Ops. He is one of Ironwoods best and loyal soldiers, so of course he would prioritize the one that his general is currently framing as the "bigger threat". No to mention, I recall that the writers stated during the episodes commentary that Clover was confident enough to deal with both of them due to his good luck semblance, so while having good luck seems like a powerful ally, it can just be as fatal as having bad luck. Qrow was put in a nearly impossible situation. On one hand he wanted revenge against Tyrian, on the other he needed to deal with Clover. He realized he couldn't fight both of them, so he took the safest option to "team up" with the one that will temporarily help him. And even during that sequence, you can see that Qrow doesn't really do much to support Tyrian, he simply focused on Clover. Now with Tyrian, its a different story, because he was controlling this whole dilemma. From the start he was manipulating Qrow by giving him what he wants ... vengeance. At the same time, when they teamed up, Tyrian made sure to keep Qrow pinned against Clover by even using his tail to push Qrow directly into Clover. Its a small detail, but it shows how effectively Tyrian controlls the situation, until he got the chance to grab Qrows sword and kill Clover with it ... all while framing him as the murder for his demise. There is no real right or wrong in this situation imo. Just people who fell victim to their emotions

K

As you can imagine, this episode was quite divisive 😂. I have to agree with Bethany for the most part, you can see during the 1v1v1 fight that Clover does NOT relent in disrupting and trying to take down Qrow. Every time Qrow tries to go for Tyrian, Clover foils him and gets in the way. Of course it’s unwise to ally with Tyrian even temporarily, this was an outcome we all could have foreseen but I feel Qrow had little options in that moment. If everyone had listened to Qrow and gone to Atlas this never would’ve happened. Robin didn’t help by antagonising the situation though I understand her viewpoint and her anger. Just an all round mess, but I guess that’s what happens when the “good guys” turn on each other. As Qrow said, Clover could’ve just done the right thing instead of the thing he was told, but I suppose the ultimate blame falls to Ironwood.

Mrbluegrand (edited)

Comment edits

2024-06-19 01:06:15 I agree that Clover could have handled it better but i wouldn't call him an idiot since he was left with such limited options thanks to both Robyn and Qrow. Imo all the blame falls on Robyn (or is it Robin idk) and in later part also Qrow. She literally shoots at him after he begs not to escalate it even further, FFS Qrow is even saying they should just do this and when they arrive at Atlas then speak to Ironwood. But no... lets start a fight in a small confined area while in the air, Oh and btw we have a psychotic killer just next to us urging you to do this. And after Clover gets the upper hand on Robyn then Qrow joins the fight saying "Fine", LIKE What? How is any of this Clovers fault? Moving on to the second part, this is what i meant he could have handled it better. Having that three man scuffle was not ideal but it was Qrow who purposely went to disable/shatter his aura! And I don't blame him for not trusting Qrow anymore, as he said when replying to Qrow after getting knocked down "Sometimes the right decision is the hardest to make, I trust James with my life! I wanted to trust you." And in the end he couldn't. And to reiterate this was basically just a house/temporary arrest since ironwood didn't want this plan to fail. They could just have TALKED with him if in fact they had any other suggestions or ideas to solve this crisis other than all perish. Ironwood do take in feedback, just not the "Don't do this" without any alternatives. I also want to point out that Qrow is one of my favorite characters in the show and has been since he was first introduced, as for Robin and Clover I've been a bit iffy. Your are more than welcome to have a different view on this. I simply wanted to stand up for some fictional characters. #JusticeforIronwood&Clover
2024-06-18 17:45:54 I agree that Clover could have handled it better but i wouldn't call him an idiot since he was left with such limited options thanks to both Robyn and Qrow. Imo all the blame falls on Robyn (or is it Robin idk) and in later part also Qrow. She literally shoots at him after he begs not to escalate it even further, FFS Qrow is even saying they should just do this and when they arrive at Atlas then speak to Ironwood. But no... lets start a fight in a small confined area while in the air, Oh and btw we have a psychotic killer just next to us urging you to do this. And after Clover gets the upper hand on Robyn then Qrow joins the fight saying "Fine", LIKE What? How is any of this Clovers fault? Moving on to the second part, this is what i meant he could have handled it better. Having that three man scuffle was not ideal but it was Qrow who purposely went to disable/shatter his aura! And I don't blame him for not trusting Qrow anymore, as he said when replying to Qrow after getting knocked down "Sometimes the right decision is the hardest to make, I trust James with my life! I wanted to trust you." And in the end he couldn't. And to reiterate this was basically just a house/temporary arrest since ironwood didn't want this plan to fail. They could just have TALKED with him if in fact they had any other suggestions or ideas to solve this crisis other than all perish. Ironwood do take in feedback, just not the "Don't do this" without any alternatives. I also want to point out that Qrow is one of my favorite characters in the show and has been since he was first introduced, as for Robin and Clover I've been a bit iffy. Your are more than welcome to have a different view on this. I simply wanted to stand up for some fictional characters. #JusticeforClover

I agree that Clover could have handled it better but i wouldn't call him an idiot since he was left with such limited options thanks to both Robyn and Qrow. Imo all the blame falls on Robyn (or is it Robin idk) and in later part also Qrow. She literally shoots at him after he begs not to escalate it even further, FFS Qrow is even saying they should just do this and when they arrive at Atlas then speak to Ironwood. But no... lets start a fight in a small confined area while in the air, Oh and btw we have a psychotic killer just next to us urging you to do this. And after Clover gets the upper hand on Robyn then Qrow joins the fight saying "Fine", LIKE What? How is any of this Clovers fault? Moving on to the second part, this is what i meant he could have handled it better. Having that three man scuffle was not ideal but it was Qrow who purposely went to disable/shatter his aura! And I don't blame him for not trusting Qrow anymore, as he said when replying to Qrow after getting knocked down "Sometimes the right decision is the hardest to make, I trust James with my life! I wanted to trust you." And in the end he couldn't. And to reiterate this was basically just a house/temporary arrest since ironwood didn't want this plan to fail. They could just have TALKED with him if in fact they had any other suggestions or ideas to solve this crisis other than all perish. Ironwood do take in feedback, just not the "Don't do this" without any alternatives. I also want to point out that Qrow is one of my favorite characters in the show and has been since he was first introduced, as for Robin and Clover I've been a bit iffy. Your are more than welcome to have a different view on this. I simply wanted to stand up for some fictional characters. #JusticeforClover

Jeff
>>140939153

Ah poor reading comprehension. Makes sense.

Mrbluegrand

Interesting take. Honestly its been a month since i saw the exact parts with Robyn and Ironwood but i do not remember her trying to ever work with Ironwood, hell the first appearance of her in the show is just to disrupt a delivery to the project? (And yeah i know about Mantle needing the dust and so on) but what authority does she have? She's basically running an insurgent group. And i can understand if Ironwood and Ace Ops were shutting down talks, Ironwood couldn't just go letting everybody in on the plan. He had to be selective and Robyn simply didn't cut it, and why would she? "The only way to believe otherwise is to ignore all available evidence." Ironwood literary says and means that this "imprisonment" would be temporary until the plan was in effect, why would he imprison them indefinitely? Its both understood from the show and outside that Ironwood isn't doing this for power he is at least in his own mind simply the best option for saving Remnant and in that specific moment i kind of agree, no one else was giving any ideas on how to solve the world ending F-ING army outside the walls. Other than "No don't =(" "Being a braindead soldier" hmm, first of all i thought calling him an idiot was uncalled for and now Braindead? He clearly has a lot of loyalty towards ironwood with him saying "I trust James with my life" and we all can see that ALL of them made mistakes and in that moment he probably was being petty going after Qrow. But as Dragon Huntress said in a post above which was very well written it all came down to emotional turmoil they also points out "No to mention, I recall that the writers stated during the episodes commentary that Clover was confident enough to deal with both of them due to his good luck semblance, so while having good luck seems like a powerful ally, it can just be as fatal as having bad luck." All these other people in the comments just giving Clover shit without any sympathy or empathy is worrying even if its just a tv show. "He could have still achieved what he wanted without putting the transport at risk by simply pretending like he wasn't going to act on his orders right away. " You saying this was what instigated the fight? You literary said before that "She has absolutely no reason to trust either of them and every reason to act immediately, because waiting only favors Ironwood. " that was just after the call was cut when Clover and Qrow both are shocked, proving yourself wrong there mate. After writing this mess of a text with limited time i also just want to say i do like your take on "It's a similar play on his character fable as Lionheart's. The Lion fell to cowardice and the Fisherman relied on luck." makes sense even if i don't agree with what you wrote before it.