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November 19 Update (Patreon)

Published:
2017-11-19 23:52:20
Edited:
2023-01-22 17:28:43
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Content

Four things this week! 

First, take a look at the Wynn fanart above! It was drawn by JinxWuzX and commissioned by Jack Grey. There's actually another piece of art I haven't shown, but since Patreon is being super subjective about its policies, I'm concerned about posting NSFW art.

Second, just an FYI: my games are going to be on sale starting at some point this week. Not supposed to say exactly when, but expect Steam and itch.io to participate. There will also be a DLsite sale later. Crimson Gray is at 47 reviews, maybe the sale will get us to 50!

Third, I'm glad people are enjoying Desecration of Wings. I have taken some steps toward commissioning art, and I'm hoping for a potential release in early 2018. 

Finally, TLS update time. I am working hard to try to deal with a challenge inherent to the structure of chapter four.

In this chapter there will be a number of long-running sidequests that will be based on the player's overall conditions, not tied directly to the plot. For example, if your Yhilin is in great shape, you might be able to finish it rather soon. Someone with disastrous variables will have to invest a lot and not see any of the final Yhilin content until much later in the game.

These events aren't all major chunks, but they're non-trivial. To continue with the example, finishing Yhilin involves a number of investments and unlocks some things. There will also be... Janine-related events.

The thing is, many of these run in parallel. I don't think it would be satisfying to do a thin horizontal slice of all of them each update, and doing vertical slices would mean that some updates contain no accessible content for certain saves/players. My hope is that a blend will work better than either extreme without overtaxing me.

My plan is that in 0.31.0 you'll be able to travel to a ton of places and do various events, tying the world and base together. The final version will have more content, but I hope the foundation will still have a satisfying amount. With luck, next week I'll be able to report that this looks likely.

Files

Comments

Decanter

Did the artist mean to make the pic so tiny that we can't read the Patreon URL or email(?) I'm not getting a better resolution when I click or try to view directly. I'd wondered idly how a game structured like this could work with the usual Patreon model, not knowing you would attempt it. I'm sure the end result in several updates will be just as good, but in the meantime I can only wish you well. Finally, do you mean 0.31.0?

sierralee
>>8402572

Dunno, I posted what I was linked. Patreon link in the body of the post now, though. Regarding the structure, I should clarify that chapter four will still mostly be structured like the past ones. It will just have a non-linear background of other events, which I hope that I can construct without halting the core plot for too long. And yeah, 0.31.0.

Argo The Ratfolk

Hmm I just noticed how small the info is as well 0.o That image I linked was what she sent me from discord when she was done with it so I don't have anything bigger than that unfortunately :(

Dubsington (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-24 06:19:01 First off: Love the art, never thought of a halfling as leggy before. But what on earth is on Wynn's mouth? Secondly: Janine gets some love (literally?)! That poor woman deserves some quality time with Simon & Co, I hope she gets it. (It wasn't obvious to me if she and Simon had actually done the deed or not, as of the last update.) Third: It looks like everyone seems to be getting away just fine with posting NSFW stuff so long as it's for paying patrons only (i.e. does not show up to google's spider).
2017-11-20 04:19:36 First off: Love the art, never thought of a halfling as leggy before. But what on earth is on Wynn's mouth? Secondly: Janine gets some love (literally?)! That poor woman deserves some quality time with Simon & Co, I hope she gets it. (It wasn't obvious to me if she and Simon had actually done the deed or not, as of the last update.) Third: It looks like everyone seems to be getting away just fine with posting NSFW stuff so long as it's for paying patrons only (i.e. does not show up to google's spider).

First off: Love the art, never thought of a halfling as leggy before. But what on earth is on Wynn's mouth? Secondly: Janine gets some love (literally?)! That poor woman deserves some quality time with Simon & Co, I hope she gets it. (It wasn't obvious to me if she and Simon had actually done the deed or not, as of the last update.) Third: It looks like everyone seems to be getting away just fine with posting NSFW stuff so long as it's for paying patrons only (i.e. does not show up to google's spider).

sierralee
>>8405141

She's holding a picture of Wendis. Simon and Janine haven't had sex yet. After waiting this long, it won't be something they just amble into. But the wait is almost over... assuming I get it done and your save has decent Yhilin variables. Unfortunately, Patreon is being extremely inconsistent. Some accounts are getting away with publicly violating every policy, while others are being told they have to wipe everything, even private posts. My feeling right now is that it's futile to try to comply with their rules, because there are no actual rules. What I hope is avoid drawing their attention in the first place.

Quiet Stranger

Looking back on Desecration of Wings, among other works, I really liked the way you used expressions in character portraits. Simon's skepticism and Felana's smirks made their games. It was so iconic for me (as the first RPG Maker products I took a serious interest in) that it has become jarring to see the generic assets used elsewhere. Imagine my mixed feelings on seeing "Shack Guy" in Noxian Nights. I only discovered you as you began Chapter 2. Did you create Yarra and the other signature girls of Arclent yourself? I think I remember you mentioning that you had difficulty getting in touch with your original artist, to that effect, and the depiction of Aram's desert dwellers came with an odd change in style.

Dubsington
>>8405141

Oh, I see it now-- wow, that's kinda touching. Glad to hear that S&J have not Done The Deed yet. After so much buildup, it would a tragedy if it happened off camera. It'd be so great to see her be able to really let go, though... imagine how much fun Yarra would have with her. This is the first I've heard of Patreon enforcing NSFW rules on patrons-only posts. Do you know who that happened to?

Aaron Scott

I'm looking forward to the full release of Desecration of Wings! In particular, I'm looking forward to seeing the scenes flushed out with more artwork! I'm assuming that you're commissioning more art from lires, or would other artists be involved? I'm glad to hear that Janine will get some event time. I felt bad that her betrothed and all her friends moved out all at once to go to their fun palace, and left her behind. Hopefully, We'll get some Sarai interaction in there too (and maybe some Sarai action?).

Zaq Reman

Is there a link where the other art can be viewed at? (Hopefully one that isn't blocked by tumblr's 'safe' mode)

Jan Dietrich

A question i'm pondering about since quite a while is, why it is so hard to commission art for TLS. Since i'm quite knew, at least what regards patreon support, i may lack some information, but isn't it possible to contract some or one of the artis(s) who contributed their work to your commercial games for TLS? Of course, this would most likely require more than some financial effort, i'm asking because you seemed, in what i have read so far, to be more concerned about the "work ethic" of potential contributors. Not asking for an answer from you personally though, since there are many people here who have been with the game a far longer time than i have. I would be grateful if you guys could share your knowledge with me.

sierralee
>>8405141

Regarding Patreon, there are channels where many developers are sharing their experiences. Unfortunately, it's not a matter of one person getting hit, there have been around a dozen different reports requiring varying and inconsistent levels of removal. Worst of all are stories of support people who go nearly a week between emails only to say "Your page still isn't in compliance" without giving a reason. Better not to get on their list in the first place, but that's not fully in my control. =/

sierralee
>>8405962

I think a good set of emotions is a critical part of a game like this! However, as TLS was my first project, it doesn't include a lot of custom art. Most of it is edits of the default RPG Maker style, but even those aren't 100% consistent. In order to make use of such varied resources, I tried to group art styles by country, so the visual distinction at least has some narrative purpose.

sierralee
>>8406043

It will be other artists, hopefully some of which I can work with in the future for their own projects. Lires did not work out and I'm not comfortable working with him professionally in the future. Even though I should probably be focused on other parts, I've actually already written Sarai dialogue related to Janine! As for Sarai herself, she'll require the resolution of a more difficult plot thread. One that I think will be clearer after the release of 0.31.0, actually.

sierralee
>>8409797

Not yet, but you are not the only person to request such a place! Unfortunately, it seems there won't be any option that will please everyone. In any case, I hope to create some kind of collected site in the future, but I've been putting this off since I need to focus on my core work right now.

sierralee
>>8410006

I think an answer from me is useful in this case. Basically, it boils down to the fact that the bar for an artist completing a single game is much lower than the bar for doing something as large as TLS. I don't want to talk about artists directly, so I'll give some examples of artists I've worked with over the years, not necessarily those you see in the final commercial games. Some artists might be very talented, but make it obvious that they don't care about the project and are just doing the minimum necessary to get paid. Such a person would be likely to leave TLS as soon as they felt like it. Some artists are very prickly about changing their style or taking direction, which is fine for a new project, but unacceptable for TLS, where it's very important to me that the characters have unique expressions and bodies that fit them. And finally, some artists can be very unprofessional, which is something I can tolerate to give one project a consistent style, but wouldn't want to deal with for a long term project. Please don't try to match those to known artists for my work, as it includes scrapped artists for TLS and DoW as well as some of the new people I've contacted. But I hope that gives you a clearer idea of where the difficulty lies. EDIT: Those might give too negative of an impression. Another example is an artist who is willing to do occasional CGs for a game, but has too many of her own projects to commit to something as large as TLS.

Darthjake
>>8405962

I know what you mean about "shack guy", heck whenever I see Trin's avatar in a game now I get to wondering what chaos the character is planning....

Quiet Stranger
>>8405962

Then I cannot overstate the excellence of your image modifications for TLS and Ouroboros. The changes are subtle, but characterful and defining—something that can be said about much of what you do. It looks like I can speak for more than just me when I say that these are small details I'll carry for the rest of my life.

Tanner
>>8410006

Personally, I don't feel the game is any worse off without the art. The story, world, and characters are so well crafted, that they are more than capable of standing on their own. To be honest, even if you were to take out the adult content of the game, very little would be lost to the overall story. I have found that, for me, the erotic scenes add to the game, but are not essential. The best example of this, that I can think of, is healing the Unsuccubi. It was well written, and served to help flesh out Riala. Had you decided not to include it, there was still a great deal of other material that could have easily carried that section of the story.

Decanter
>>8409797

Out of curiosity, what's the issue with using your blog for it?

Decanter
>>8410006

On one level, I understand the feeling. But I also feel that I'd eventually get a bit weirded out that a game with sex so central to the world and plot didn't have sex scenes. As opposed to something like Crimson Gray.

sierralee
>>8409797

A fair question - truthfully, I had not seriously considered my blog for this purpose. I have never really thought of Blogspot as a good location to upload images, but I suppose I could make a post for them and it would automatically have thumbnail and full size options. On the other hand, some issues do come to mind. It would get my blog rated as objectionable, forcing everyone to click through the content warning for every single post when the vast majority will be perfectly SFW. I don't know how many people would feel this is a quality of life thing, but I sure don't like doing it. In addition, putting them on a blog would provide few other benefits, whereas putting the pictures up on other sites would increase discoverability of the game. Those are my initial thoughts, not a summary judgment, but there you go.

Decanter
>>8409797

Ah, the content warning is a good point. Unlike many sites, Blogspot's content warning is difficult to banish for long periods of time. You have a Tumblr, which might be good for discoverability and thus might be worthwhile regardless, but the method for seeing full-resolution images is more of a hack than something officially supported. I don't know what would be best. Possibly something you could pick your patrons' brains about, one of these Sundays?

Jan Dietrich
>>8410006

@ Tanner_6984 I also don't have any problem with how things are. I was just curious, that's all. After all, i started playing TLS mainly for the story, the sex scenes were more like a....how should i put this? "Cherry on top" i think would be a fitting expression. Criticism of the games current form wasn't intended by me.

DukeLeto7
>>8410006

If I had a couple hundred thousand dollars lying around, I'd try and hook you up with an eroge studio for the purpose of doing a commercial release of TLS in Japan and on J-List, but while the art resources are comparatively easy if you can throw money at pros, the problems with RPG Maker licensing, rights to the open source art used in TLS, and the localization/translation might not be. I shudder to think how Ted Woolsey would react if he were handed the current TLS script and told to render it into intelligible Japanese. Since I emphatically do not have a few hundred grand lying around at the moment, that's rather like the advocates of the Alcubierre Drive being pleased that they've reduced the energy requirement from the mass energy of Jupiter to the mass energy of 700 kgs. (That's 700 kg * c^2 expressed in joules, or 62.9 exajoules or 17.5 trillion kilowatt hours, as opposed to 2.7 octillion times more if the mass energy equivalent of Jupiter was required. In a Douglas Adamsesque coincidence, 2.7 octillion times more is the exact ratio between my above proposed TLS art budget and my present savings.)

sierralee
>>8410006

Haha, anyone who does have a couple hundred grand lying around is welcome to get in touch with me. XP Honestly, any translation budget for TLS would be insane. Translation companies send me emails and so I've idly done the math. It seems unlikely that any game I create in the near future will have few enough words for translation to be viable.

Jan Dietrich
>>8410006

I would even say it isn't necessary to do a translation of TLS. Especially in games where the good narration and dialogues are essential, a translation is never as good as the original, since (and i know this out of my own experience as a translator) a translator always has to simplify/bend certain expressions which often leads to an decrease in linguistical quality when compared to the original.

Dubsington
>>8410006

As much as I'd love to have CG art in TLS (and believe me, I would *really really* like to have that art), I appreciate that Sierra is not willing to compromise on this particular project. It would have to be an unusual arrangement-- the artist committing to do a huge amount of art, with the financial incentives arranged such that they won't want to quit in the middle and yet won't starve to death waiting for a paycheck. As Sierra seems to be hinting, it would be safer to wait until the project is done or nearly done before engaging someone... unfortunately then that would mean spending a large amount of money on assets for a game that is already complete. I think it would be money well spent since it would open TLS up to a far wider audience, but that assertion would be hard to support with evidence (and I am an extremely biased voice). Perhaps the art could be thought of as a 'thank you' to the existing supporters, or sold as a DLC of sorts?

DukeLeto7
>>8410006

Well, IF you were going to do CG art assets for the naughty scenes, it would make sense to wait until the game is finished, since that means there's no need for playtesting and balancing, and Japanese Visual Novel studios have the infrastructure in place to turn around a number of such scenes in a relatively short time. I don't think that some of the VN games I used to play a decade or so ago had that much less sex scenes than TLS ("Sagara Family" comes to mind). But IF you were going to spend money to get art content for TLS made, you would need to have a commercial release to recoup your investment, and the market for these sorts of games is something like 10x greater in Japan than it is in the US, the Commonwealth and Europe put together. So a Japanese localization would be essential, because that would account for 95% of your sales. There's a very small market for Japanese porn games localized into English, and thus people who do the translation professionally for the Japanese studios, so if you fronted the cash to pay the production budget for the art and translation, plus their pre-existing marketing system, depending on how the revenues are split and the up front cost, a retail TLS selling for ~$25 would only need to move a few tens or hundreds of thousands of units to turn a modest profit for the financier. A big problem though is that a lot of the RPG Maker sprites TLS uses seem to be released on a variation of the "open source" license by their creators, so one might have to redo the art for some of these sprites for a commercial release. Very much an academic question though.