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Attack on Titan 4x5 Reaction Extended (YT link below) (Patreon)

Published:
2021-06-13 01:58:02
Imported:
2021-06

Content

Streamable Link:

https://streamable.com/t1ho6t


YouTube Link:

https://youtu.be/U5DBDz8stUo


In Attack on Titan 4x5 Declaration of War, Willy's play is kinda just a monologue with SFX... hope he's better at saving the world than he is at theater... what's that you say? He died? I thought that was a lady in a dress.

Files

AOT 4X5 Extended

Watch "AOT 4X5 Extended" on Streamable.

Comments

bl0odm1st

Perfect timing!

Nick

and thus begins the new IMDB trio of Season 4 lol Seriously these next few episodes are so good. Good luck not binging them Alex

hays collins

Hahaha your optimism is hysterical

mr_wordcraft

"So I missed the ending scene last time, and I'm gonna watch it now! Ummm...but it can't be that important, right? I mean, what could possibly happen in an ending scene?" *Gets so hooked into the ending scene that forgets it was an ending scene and not a full episode.*

malikparah

Can you believe we had to wait 2 weeks after the 4x4 cliffhanger of the eren and reiner reunion since mappa took an extra week off for new years? the universe really brought reiner face to face with eren jaeger as penance for daring to crack a smile during the festival. This is clearly a very different eren who has gained a much more nuanced perspective over the last 4 years and understands reiner a lot more yet is willing to use falco as a pawn, threaten reiner and falco with an injury showing that he can transform at any time, hold a bunch of innocent eldians above him hostage to get reiner to comply and still transforming killing all said hostages. All while staying completely calm and collected and showing none of that trademark eren rage. Also not entirely sure where you got the idea eren was controlling reiner (at least with titan powers hostage holding aside) but to clarify there's no control this was a genuine conversation between the 2 of them which is what makes it that much more meaningful

Shadow82135

Eren did no mind control power(like titan power) to Reiner. Reiner was just that succumbed to his own emotions.

CyKaL

The last scene with Eren transforming was just that, him transforming. He didn't control Reiner. He had already cut himself but he willingly didn't transform until that scene.

Aura Y

This episode was pretty incredible at building tension... I was honestly rooting for the chance that Eren and Reiner could still join to make a difference in this world. But deep down I probably knew Eren only had one thing in mind. I'm very interested to see how opinions of the episodes moving forward will be. This is a point where Eren made a very significant choice to attack Marley. He chose to believe in the "We live in the cruel world" philosophy that has been present since season 1. Can he ever come back from this?

hays collins

It wasn’t really a mind control it’s just all of Reiners guilt just spilled out after seeing Eren

R'Mani Leavell

S tier episode. This is the episode I've been waiting for the entirety of the series. We finally see the man Eren has become. I'm eager to see what you think about Eren in the up coming episodes. Also it's episodes like this when I really wish they could've adaped the manga word for word, scene for scene. Because there were a few moments that the anime didn't animate, but its understandable. I can imagine it'll be hard trying to trim down 80+ pages of content into 22 minutes... Minus 3 minutes for openings and endings

Shadow82135
>>61762030

Also remember that for Eren to touch Historia and the founding Titans power of mind control to work, she needs to be a titan. As far as you've seen in the show, there is no hinting to her being one. There is already so much stuff to keep track of, don't get your mind jumbled with too much speculative off screen stuff. Try to focus on what's been showed to you. Eren as a person has had alot of time (given the time jump of season 3-4) to think about what to say to Reiner. He just pushed all the right buttons. When it comes to any Titan abilities right now, it's only the ones from the Attack Titan, not the Founding.

Armin Arlert

Eren didn't control Reiner with titan powers. It was all psychology and Reiners mental state.

Anonymous

Every titan transformation is accompanied by yellow lightning, it probably was just weird to see it while they were shaking hands.

Anonymous

When Eren showed his cut hand to Reiner he was showing he had his finger on a trigger. When Eren shook Reiner's hand at the end he was saying "relax, we can pull the trigger together :)"

Shadow82135
>>61762194

Yeah it's all Attack Titan there. Hange said in Season 1 that you need an injury and a clear goal to transform into a titan. He was injured, but chose not to have his clear goal for a minute.

Jonathan Canfield

The spark when he was holding Reiner's hand was just him starting his titan transformation. But I think Eren sounds depressed in this scene. But he feels he has to do what he is doing cause his people are in danger of being wiped out because if their lineage that they have no control over. But from other races perspective its understandable because of the huge amount of bloodshed that they spilt for centuries. They are also using Eren as a scapgoat for invading paradis because we saw they want the founding titan to keep their nation's power as well as for the natural resources. Point being everyone is bad in this but have good reasons. Eldians just want to be able to live. The rest of the world doesn't want to live in fear of titans anymore. Marley wants more power...ok Marley is pretty evil.

Jonas

he didn't do anything to Reiner, he had a cut in his hand and transformed into a titan, Reiner went to protect Falco

Anonymous

I feel like I'm getting a totally different image of Eren. He honestly seems like he's in hyper rational mode. I don't think he really enjoys anything that he's doing at this point. Only that it's necessary in his eyes. I get the feeling that he knows something that nobody else does for a change.

Armin Arlert

Also Eren was able to transform due to his hand cut. Reiner knew from the start Eren could transform at any moment, Eren showed his hand cut and mentioned the civilians above them as a threat. That's another reason why Reiner was submissive to Eren.

Lysieblu

These past episodes are weird in that I can never figure out if Marley had planned a false flag event and was going to blame Paradise or if they were totally expecting Eren to show up. Maybe a mixture of both?

agoodwintv
>>61762208

Yeah I think that's one of many things that makes that scene special. I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one to have that thought flash through my mind, the "wow they would make a really powerful team, idea." But as you said, it's hard to believe that's possible with what we've seen from Eren and the world so far.

agoodwintv
>>61762308

Does anything in particular come to mind that you would have liked to have seen in this episode?

Anonymous

The whole "I'm the same as you, Reiner." implies that Eren feels he has no choice in the same way Reiner had no choice but to tear down Wall Maria. And, just like Reiner, Eren will do what has do be done for his goals, repeating what Reiner did and slaughtering the civilians above him. They both had it in them to do terrible things and "keep moving forward". I think Eren wanted to listen to Willy's speech to see how it turned out. He waited until Willy declared war on Paradis to transform

Norrin Radd

His hand was cut so he could transform immediately. He didn't do anything to Reiner. He just shook his hand and them transformed,

Anonymous

Eren didnt do anything to Reiner when they shook hands. That spark was just Eren transforming because remember earlier he had a cut on his hand. Just wanted to clarify👌

Xylen

This episode breaks my heart every time. There's a fork in the road here, in many ways. I want so badly for Reiner to follow his heart and find, if not redemption, some peace and true purpose in doing the right thing. I want Eren to rise above this path he's been on and break the cycle. I want the world to move forward and heal rather than destroying itself so pointlessly. I can imagine an alternate reality where Eren makes a different choice. With essentially the whole world gathered here, with the stage set, maybe he could have presented himself in peace, deflating Willy's manipulative demonization. Hell, maybe he could have done that with Reiner's help, and the two of them could start to heal that rift together. Maybe it's too hopelessly optimistic, it was risky, he probably would have just been killed and lost the Founding Titan... but there was a chance. Maybe the last chance for true peace, at least for a long time. Instead, it falls right into my fears. Eren's too radicalized -- for all his talk about freedom, he sure loves to say he has no choice. He blows up that residential building, killing who knows how many innocent people, and murders Willy with the whole world watching. Basically validates all of Willy's talk and declares war on the world. I'd need to go back and find the exact moments again, but there were some things you said about Eren in the first few episodes of the show, some concerns you had, that got me really excited for your thoughts on the whole series. You were bang on almost right from the start, and I was thinking about season 4 the whole time you were talking. Can't believe we're finally here.

mr_wordcraft

I don't believe that Eren had the full intention of attacking Marley at this point, sure he had everything set up to counter attack (or pre-emptively attack at least) but I believe that had the Tyburs not united the whole world against Paradis then Eren wouldn't have done what he did. He literally waited until Willy made the declaration of war before transforming, remember that Eren had been there for a while now and had not transformed at any point prior even though that he could have done so at the beginning of the season when the Marleyan Military and their titans were busy fighting the Allied Forced and done a lot of damage yet he never did, and remember that this whole Festival thing wasn't set up for years, it was a recent thing so the fact that all these elite military members and politicians from other countries were in that one place wasn't the reason he had gone there at all. Also, you have to realize that it's been 4 years since the ending of S3 so I'd advise to look at Eren with fresh eyes rather than using his old self as the base of his decisions and way of handling things, one of the hints is when Reiner said that he'd sworn to kill them in the worst way possible and Eren said that he vaguely remembered that and to simply ignore it, this is not the same Eren that is driven by pure hatred.

Anonymous

I think one of my favorite parts of this episode is the “reveal” during the play, that king fritz is the “good guy” (not that those actually exist in this show). Something to keep in mind is that from the perspective of the rest of the world, the king fritz reveal is just as shocking as the basement was to paradise. Only the tyburs and the king knew the truth about the vow against war, so this whole time Marley has been under the impression that at any moment the current possessor of the founding titan can just begin the march of tens of millions of colossal titans, which also makes their fear of the island make much more sense.

Keegan Brakhage

this is one of my favorite episodes! also it was a funny day when the title of this episode, "declaration of war" was trending on twitter haha. some people were a tad worried

War2244

You're right in that Eren has a choice and that choice is fight back or become like the previous king and let his people die out. Eren see's the later as something he isn't willing to give up on.

ComicalSkate

One thing to take note of is that Eren, and therefore Eldia along with it, did not attack until the moment Willy Tybur acting as a representative of the will of Marley made the declaration of war. They did not attack unprovoked. It was just a power play of the highest level: "Oh you want to declare war? Alright!" *immediately kills the man who declared war and has run Marley from the shadows all this time* It's so good!

R'Mani Leavell
>>61762364

I don't even think it was to psyc Reiner out. He just had a few questions, and Riener was so out of it he just broke down

malikparah
>>61762839

not sure whether you've already seen the show or are watching along with goodwin but that question does get answered

Jake White

Eren did nothing to Reiner when he helped him up off the ground, by the way. He just helped him up and then transformed from the cut on his hand, that was the transformation electricity

Anonymous

Sometimes I wonder what Erwin Smith would do here knowing what the people over the walls were like. Where this reality is headed because of what Eren plans to do. He had put a lot of faith in Eren, but it was to figure out the truth that he was seeking, not for the future of humanity. So in a way, I think he died the perfect death at the perfect time. Heroic, and right before they find the basement. Because what would he have done, if he had his hypothesis confirmed? There's people over the walls, now what? #WWED WHAT WOULD ERWIN DO. I can't even imagine. Dare I say, he's lucky he doesn't have to live through what's going on now. Though I'm sure he would still make a great leader, he really only had one big goal motivating him throughout his life. But, yeah I still miss him. :\

War2244

As state by Udo in the previous episode, the hatred for Eldians is not just a Marley thing and it's worse in other countries. Eren really is backed into a corner here. We knew him as that angry kid for the entire show but in this episode we are shown he knows both sides. He understands that everywhere there are just people. They aren't the monsters he wished they were. Even still, he decided to kill these innocent people to protect his family, his nation. It's horrible but I don't feel like he has a choice other than death. If we use your idea of not doing something bad just cause the enemy did it then Marley wouldn't have used titans to rule the world and attack paradise. The consequences of abusing titans to massacre the people of paradise and other nations is coming to bite them in the butt just like the Eldains of the past. I can't say I really blame Eren for his actions.

Anonymous

one of the things we know is that eren can only use the founding titans power when he is in direct contact with someone who is BOTH of royal blood and is also a titan, so willy saying eren can activate the rumbling whenever he wants was either just fearmongering, his ignorance, or both (since there is no titan of royal blood he can touch on the island). also, the founding titan's power is like that of god. all of the millions of colossal titans in the walls were just made by the founding titan. no equivalent exchange here😂

Tea-Spin

I don't really think Eren had any other choice where basically the whole world is already set to attack the Paradis, his hometown where he's born and raised. And as idealistic as Armin probably would say, are we really given the privilege to to talk it our or negotiate with them? I don't think so, the world is so full of hatred towards the eldians to do that. So, idk, what other choice Eren has other than the extinction of his people?

Xylen
>>61763379

You're right in that those are PROBABLY the only two realistic options. But, to paraphrase Levi, nobody ever knows how things are going to turn out. It would probably be too much to hope for to try to negotiate with the Marley government... but what if instead of launching a surprise attack, the people of Paradis made a show of peace here in front of the world? I get that that's still probably very unlikely to work -- but I'm hard-pressed to accept that even in this situation (at least before Eren's attack), the only two options are "accept death or declare global war". That's a false dichotomy. The other options may be hard, or risky, but they should always be considered.

Xylen
>>61763447

True, but it's still not a good look that Eren's first act of war is personally blowing up a residential building packed full of civilians...

agoodwintv
>>61762906

That's an interesting question for Eren... Had he already made up his mind? I would argue that they both always had a choice, but Eren is probably more capable now of understanding that it's a choice than Reiner was as a child.

agoodwintv
>>61763105

I'm very happy that it seems like this felt like a crossroads for others as well. Seeing as that's the case, it does a great job with the tension between the hope of "maybe they can turn it around?" vs the expectation of "it's probably too late."

Xylen
>>61763613

I'd have an easier time accepting that if he didn't so casually murder probably dozens if not hundreds of civilians. I might be an idealist, so in a perfect world I would have liked to see any sort of attempt at peace... but, fine, they've decided that's not a reasonable option. Even so, even if war is a foregone conclusion, I don't think the murder of innocent people should be so easily shrugged aside as a necessity. Of course, in any war there will likely be collateral damage, but it should always be avoided to the fullest extent possible. Eren basically held these people hostage and then executed them.

agoodwintv
>>61763587

I miss him too! Because I am Erwin Smith fanboy #1, my feeling is that despite his stated goals, his actual objectives were based on something higher than the outcome of the basement (I think his final moments proved that beyond doubt), and so therefore he would shift his objective to figuring out a way to proceed that did not resort to the evil of his enemies.

Xylen
>>61763639

I think this is probably a deliberate omission by Willy. Most of what he says is true, but he leaves out some important context, just a couple of details, to once again reignite the flame of hatred against the island and whip people into a frenzy. His speech goes so quickly from "This one guy Eren Jaeger stole the Founding Titan!" to "And that's why we have to go exterminate everyone on the island!"

a. tree

Thinking about the Bertholdt flashback at the beginning of the episode... it's of course setting up expectations for this interaction based on what Reiner needs: "to be judged by someone." From the outset, we know what Reiner wants from this interaction, but what about Eren? If he just wanted to incapacitate Reiner, he could've taken a baseball bat and clocked him and Falco over the head. Why talk? I think Eren's wants are similar to what Reiner wants: he, too, feels the need to relieve some sort of moral burden or unsure-ness about his actions. A question recurs: 'Was all of this foregone due to circumstance, or do we have a choice to change the cycle?' Eren's says the former: Reiner had no choice but to destroy the walls and do all he did, given situation Marley put him in. Similarly then, if every nation in the world wants Paradis eradicated, Eren has no choice but to fight them all, right? 'No,' says Reiner: when Eren says that this is what makes them the same, he immediately rejects it. The Warriors had an out when Marcel died, but he strong-armed them not to take it. The night before they broke the Trost wall, Annie proposed they take what they know back home. If they left right then, nobody would have died at Trost, *Marco* wouldn't have died. Reiner understands this and needs Eren to as well: he DID have a choice. He made the wrong choice, and it's been eating him alive. It caused untold numbers of innocent, good people to literally be eaten alive. But only in response to *this* point, Eren affirms: 'then I really am the same as you.' Eren's transformation has so far killed every family in the building above him, at least one person in the audience, probably Reiner and Falco who he *used*, and he just snapped Willy Tybur in half. Judging by the set-up with the other Warriors in a trap, it's not going to end with just that — who knows how many deaths he is about to cause in this Eldian interment zone. Eren's recognition of the fact that as Reiner had a choice, he does too, then feels like a confession — just as Reiner made the choice to commit these evil acts, Eren, in a way more fully conscious and certainly more free (as the literal most powerful human alive) to decide, is essentially telling him: 'I also have a choice. I am *choosing* to carry out this act that I believe to be evil, just like you say you did.' But this makes Eren, in his own eyes (at least as past Eren), just as awful a person as Reiner and Bertholdt and Annie were, if not worse. And I think thats why he came to speak directly to Reiner, to this mirror of himself. The ability to talk through this with Reiner, who will be able to perfectly understand what Eren is thinking, and to get a glimpse into Reiner's assesment of himself, gave Eren the final resolve to flip the trigger and go through with his decision to be "the bad guy." Like you said, Eren can't be dissuaded once he decides he wants to do something, but he needed just one final thing to affirm his conviction. It wasn't just Reiner who needed to be judged.

Xylen
>>61762664

I get the "hyper rational" thing too, and I agree that he doesn't necessarily enjoy any of this, he just sees it as necessary. But people rationalize all sorts of things. Many a tragedy has been committed with the honest belief that it's a necessary evil. Maybe he really does have some enlightened view and this is truly the best path forward -- but at first blush, I think it's just as likely that someone like this has been radicalized to the point of justifying anything for the sake of their goal.

DennisAnimeFan

Great video! Just wanted to let you know that I'd love to see a Code Geass ("kinda rewatch") from you! I feel like you'd have SO many interesting topics to talk about there. A lot of those would be different from what AOT generally does too

Aaron Ong
>>61763563

There are like 20 other comments before you that say this lol

Nick
>>61764424

I need an excuse to watch code geass too as I haven't seen it

Anonymous

I don’t get the vibe from Erin that he’s just lashing out in anger, not anymore anyway. I feel like your rationalizing it as “If only they could relax a moment they could find common ground”, and yes ideally thats how it would play out. I still feel that line of thinking is ignoring the huge threat each side represents to each other. One side has the huge evil of an army of colossal titans, and the other has an equally huge evil of a Nazi Germany style regime. After accepting the reality of the impending war it really just comes down to what might be the main theme of the show: Just how much do the ends justify the means?

Steve.

This is the episode I've been waiting for since the beginning, and it did not disappoint. I think you're starting to ask the big questions that the show has been aiming at the whole time (as I did when I first saw this episode). Personally, I think the biggest question it wants you to consider is, as you said, "is there anything more than sides? Can we ever see beyond our limited perspective and empathize with those we deem our enemies?" When Eren said "To me, you looked like the bad guys too," it was such a powerful line and really drove this theme home for me. Unfortunately though, it still doesn't seem like Eren is willing to surpass this way of thinking and doubles down on the same mistake. One more thing I'd like to add is how you once said something along the lines of, "I feel like this show is trying to trap you into thinking a certain way". I think you're right, and this serves the purpose of basically proving the author's point. For example, it's crazy to me how many people watch Eren's transformation and say things like "That's so hype! Eren is a savage!" as he blows up a building full of innocent families and their children.

a. tree
>>61763126

I think he did have the full intention, but maybe not the resolve to go through with it. Eren revealed himself to Reiner, and his comrades attacked other Warriors before Willy declared war. As public enemy number one, he can't possibly leave without the use of violence if he's alerted Reiner and Falco to his presence, and the other Warriors to an attack being carried out. Unless he was planning on turning himself in/staying permanently in Marley, he's intentionally put himself in a position that he NEEDS to use violence to get out of. Too many people know that he's there for him to be willingly let go, and it's not like he lured Reiner down there to call for a negotiator to figure out how Marley is going to ship him home safely.

War2244

Isn't it great that a show that started out as your sorta generic has evolved to this point where it's a complex war drama with themes that are hard to cover.

ArmdVctr

The sad part is some of the hardcore fans support Eren's view. They think he's so cool now.

Nick
>>61765876

Yep unfortunately. Even though the show itself criticizes war and cycles of hatred, hardcore manga fans have jumped to support Eren's ideals here. It's kind of meta that a story which is deconstructing blind idealism has garnered some fans who preach that same type of idealism.

Anonymous

Erin waited until Willy declared war on him. I feel like Erin doesn't want to do this, but the whole world united against him without ever even talking to him. no one cared enough to try and make peace with the island. I think Erin knew this was coming, due to the memories he has, and the understanding he has gained through his past titan memories.

ArmdVctr
>>61766076

That's a lousy excuse thogh and Erern's reasoning will get you laughed out of a philosophy class. Pre-emptive violence is such an evil position to take.

Anonymous

Bro when you were like “for a second I forgot i had a whole episode left.” I am so high right now that when it said to be continued i exited out this video lmaooo

WeatherReport

So, yeah, Marley is unaware Eren is here. That's why the Willy and Magath are pretty much using Eren to coup Marley and put Magath in charge. Willy intends for every Marlyean officer to die. The ones who arent expendable are not attending. He also intends to have the ambassadors and audience members killed to further sell the war. Thats what the whole chat with Magath was about. Willy knew Eren and possibly Paradis had infiltrated Marley; this play is a giant trap to lure Eren and any collaborators out. Eren knows it's a giant trap but, sometimes the best way to spring a trap is to walk into it. Eren is certain he will return home victorious. But, will he? Find out next time on DBZ!

Anna Lena Ciplajevs

Please pay close attention to how erens character has changed since the ending of the last season! No offense but I think eren might be a little typecast in your mind, but there seems sometimes very wrong with him since he’s seen his dads memories. His actions don’t really seem to be motivated by anger anymore, but he’s gotten even crueler. It’s fascinating! One of my favorite episodes for sure, thanks for the great reaction.

WeatherReport

Also, Eren came over to kill everyone but, he saw they were people and decided not too. When Willy decided to declare war it was at that moment Eren realized he had no choice.

Jiao

"Which is to come first doesn't seem to matter" you imply your expectation too hard on Eren. He did wait for them to declare war on the island and he did have no choice. Its not like peace is going to find them if they just sit on their ass. The logic here should be clear. Willy made an assumption that Eren is enemy and declared war just based on possibilities. Eren here waited for the proof. The whole thing is sad and brutal but you actually cannot blame Eren for doing it, because just like Willy he was born into this world and did not want to die or let his home die.

a. tree
>>61767884

Eren didn't wait for the proof though, the attack was set in motion from the moment Eren revealed himself to Reiner unless he could either convince both Reiner and Falco not to say he was there, or convince Marley to just let him leave without trying to restrain him. Certainly it was set in stone when they threw Pieck and Pock in a pit; as soon as they get out Eren has to expect them to alert the military and gear up to fight whatever force threw them in there. Willy didn't see evidence of Eren's plans to attack Marley until Eren literally killed him (after Willy himself declared war), and Eren didn't see evidence of Willy's plans to attack Paradis until Willy declared war (after Eren himself set his attack plan into motion). Thats what he means by chicken-versus-the egg. The "justification" for both of their actions came after they actually set their actions in motion. To be honest, I don't think there's any "being too hard on Eren" in the same way that there's no "being too hard on Willy." They're both awful, and they have so much power that we should be as hard on them as possible. Their decisions have enormous weight; they can both mobilize immense force against entire groups of people. Its neither of their choices to be in the position they're in, but when you have that much power you have responsibility, whether you like it or not, to be held to a higher level of accountability even at the expense of personal wishes. Going further, I'd say that most of these people with power in this show are just awful.

Anonymous

Eren did not control Reiner per se, it was more than Reiner was in such a poor mental state that he couldn't do anything.

Yusuf

The exposition was due to adapting it from manga and you can't really show a play on manga without it being mostly juxtaposition. He didn't do anything to Reiner at all. He has no control over him. The lightning thing was him getting ready to transform into a titan. You did have goodness in these episodes. Falco (wanting to save Gabi, helping wounded enemy soldier, helping the soldiers suffering from PTSD, helping Eren), Reiner helping out the kids, and suffering from mental problems because of guilt, Gabi who wants to fight the bad guys (devils of Paradis), Wily Tybur speaking the truth and wanting to destroy the evil Eren. They are heroes. Personally, if you are brainwashed, to me it means that you don't have a choice. You have options but your brainwashing makes sure you only pick certain options Erwin is a hero by luck, what Erwin was in Reiner's position and Reiner in Erwin's position? Could Erwin still come to the truth without his father telling him that Marley narrative is bullshit? Reiner could have been an Erwin too but he was brainwashed. Erwin was never ever brainwashed (attempts at brainwashing by the state got countered by his father). On the contrary, his father literally taught him the reality behind the bureaucracy, which ironically got his father killed. Reiner didn't get that growing up. He didn't get a choice. Taking revenge is partially an ego thing. 'We don't attack and you don't attack us' is all about 'you allow us to protect our dignity and we will let you protect your dignity. I don't think it ever about striving for the higher ideal. Revenge is about control. We humans being deeply emotional and irrational as well as being fish in an ocean of ego, we never really care about the higher principles in general. Eren's ego is his people, his Eldia, his mum's brutal death etc. It is what drives him (something else drives him too but that is a spoiler), Armin on the other hand is the high principles individual, he is the only few people that want a better world beyond his own people. The choice thing is a personal thing for me. I come from a country where religion is literally your reality, you aren't taught anything outside of your religion, and hatred instilled in you feels like it is the truth, not prejudice. I didn't have a choice in being prejudiced, I thought I was being a good person in the eye of God. It was when I came back to the west, did I see that I was prejudiced. I finally had a choice when I realized I was taught bullshit and I was legally allowed to question things. Reiner would have been turned into a Titan or eaten by dogs for questioning Marley, he was raised from an extremely young age to be taught Marley's narrative. All Eren knew was Titan bad and humans inside the wall good. There were no choices. Edit: I forgot to mention that everything I wrote in this comment is what I gravitate towards but I am not entirely sure if it is accurate or a reliable way of thinking. It just makes the most sense to me but I know it is not entirely right.

Jk844

He didn’t do anything to Reiner, the electricity around Eden’s hand was just him about to transform.

Yusuf
>>61762548

Marleyans are hypocrites! They crying about how their ancestors were persecuted and eaten by titans. Then they use titans to do it to other nations. lol!

Brimmy

ya know what its so...astonishing to me every time i hear there's tens of millions of titans in the walls cuz its like we know there's titans in the walls but then the more u think about it and u realize how big the walls are that number tens of thousands becomes scarily accurate and i just cannot even deal with how crazy it is yeah no eren has come a LONG way in the last 4 years with transforming, his hand was already cut he can control his transformations so so so SOOOO much better now he wanted reiner to be standing and able to react fast before he transformed because he knows he was using Falco and wanted Falco to at least have a chance to survive him transforming

minimonie__
>>61764372

I agree!! honestly props to isayama for this whole series, it's crafted so well

Yusuf
>>61765125

The author always knew what he plans to do. So it was just the unknowns that made it seem generic at the start.

Anonymous

I don't think eren used titan controling powers on Reiner, he is just breaking down and dealing with his actions

Anonymous

this is the least bloodthirsty reaction I have EVER seen to this episode. usually people are on their feet cheering for eren at the end lmao

BubbleTea

Anybody else playing the devil's advocate and cheering for antagonist Eren lol

Anonymous

You know I thought it’s more like eren can kinda see glimpses of the future or like he already knows what’s about to happen like how eren Kruger from s3 was like “Mikasa and Armin“ that’s why I thought Reiner was scared

Polygon
>>61786650

Why would Reiner know that though. The reason he's scared is because he understands the implications of Eren being in Liberio, nothing more, nothing less.

Xylen
>>61769723

I generally agree with your last paragraph up to a point. Like Alex said, I don't blame Reiner for the initial attack on the walls. He was a brainwashed kid, he didn't know any better. Continuing the attacks after several years, when he'd been living among them and bonding with his comrades...? That's on him. He was obviously conflicted by it, it was damaging his mental health, and I wish he would turn things around for himself. I want the best for him. But he definitely did make choices there, eventually. Same with Eren. As a kid, I don't blame him for hating titans or having a very black-and-white view of the Warriors. But he knows better now. This is a very difficult situation and I won't condemn Eren for preparing for war, but everything he does now is a choice.

Anonymous

eren’s claim that he and reiner are ‘the same’ rings false to me. in some ways yes, they both were willing to commit horrible acts in order to 'save the world'; they both infiltrated the other side, lived among them, and killed lots of people because they keep moving forward. that much is true. what's false is that they had 'no other choice'. they just BELIEVED they had no choice. but like reiner said, when marcel died he did have a choice: to push forward or turn back, and he chose to go forward. that was his choice. likewise eren chose this himself. he could have chosen not to blow up an apartment building full of civilians, but he chose to do it anyway. also, eren's and reiner's respective responses to their despicable actions are polar opposite. to me, reiner is so much more noble and heroic because he knows he deserves to die for what he’s done. he’s so torn up over his actions that he wants to kill himself, but on some level he’s reflected on his actions, he’s unlearning his childhood brainwashing, he’s searching for a way out. nothing can undo shiganshina, trost, or marco's death, but the reiner we know now is struggling for some sort of atonement. from what i can tell eren literally doesn’t care about the morality of his actions. he’s not a brainwashed kid like reiner was, he’s a fully knowledgeable and culpable adult, and he’s emotionless and remorseless about destroying the civilians in liberio (who aren’t even marleyan, they’re eldian, his own people) and that is horrifying to me.

Jordan Runner
>>61794342

This is the sort of thing I feel like people miss about the Eren and Erwin parallels. Erwin is beloved and seen as heroic because of how he is portrayed, and while his ideals do guide him, he also sacrifices his comrades and entire cities (Stohess District) full of innocent people just to achieve his goals. Erwin always felt remorse for his actions (which were definitely less than totally moral), but put up a cold exterior to shoulder that burden, and I think Eren feels the same (think back to when he told Falco "I always think, why did it have to be this way?") I actually feel like Goodwin is sort of misunderstanding Eren here. Current Eren isn't all wrath the same way Erwin isn't all heroic. Eren even states that he forgot about his promise to make them suffer and die, and demonstrates a clear understanding of the Marleyans and other nations as people just like him. He isn't so fueled by hatred and malice anymore like his naive childhood self. You can see all this development in s3, where Eren has an identity crisis as he begins to realize that he knew nothing as a child, just the same as Reiner didn't. Reiner and Eren are the same in that they have "no choice," or, a sacrifice they aren't willing to make, regarding their individual circumstances. Reiner attacks the walls to "protect" himself and his family from being killed (and the "threat" of the Eldians), even if it was a terrible act. And though Reiner was a kid the first time, he was a mature young adult when he decided to again attack Trost and get the trainees killed. Like Goodwin said previously, that choice was definitely more evil than naivety. Likewise, Eren now chooses to attack Liberio to "protect" himself and his people, the people within the walls who he has allegiance to. He doesn't care about the Eldians within Marley because to him, they are also enemies. They also hate the people in the walls and want them eradicated. Race has nothing to do with it for Eren. And even though Eren is portrayed as "evil" for what he does here, he really has almost more justification for doing such a terrible thing than Marley and the Warriors did (not to say that he should be doing it at all), because the Marleyans are a REAL threat to the people of the Island, while the people on the island are only a *percieved* threat by a group of people who would still hate them even if they were cuddly teddy bears. Really, the people on the island want nothing but to be left alone and free to roam outside the walls. They only fought back because that was denied them. Meanwhile, the Marleyans and the rest of the world actively want to march into war and destroy the people on the island even before Eren attacks them. Notice how Eren waited and listened to Willy's speech before making a move. This is what I think Eren meant by him "not having a choice." Even if he or the islanders tried to sue for peace, the Marleyans have already made up their mind about destroying them, so Eren's only option is to beat Marley back and undermine them before they can reach the island with an entire global army that the scouts have no chance of winning against. It's just like back when Bertolt and Armin talked in season 3. Armin tried to reason with Bertolt, but he said the choice had already been made. Bertolt literally looked him in the eye and said "your only option is to die," leaving Armin only able to think "we didn't have a choice" when trying to understand why they had to kill their old friends. It's because the other side didn't want to negotiate, so it was kill or be killed. It wasn't a choice, it was an ultimatum. The people of the walls were never given a real opportunity for choice in this conflict, because their enemies wanted to eradicate them no matter what other options were available. If anything, the real hatred is coming more from the Marleyans and the rest of the world, not from Eren, who is defending his home from invaders. There were only ever two options given to the islanders: submit and die, or fight back and live. The royal family of the walls chose the former, and the scouts chose the latter. If Erwin were alive today, I'm not so certain he would entirely disagree with Eren's way of thinking (though maybe the methods). Erwin was always cold and calculating, aiming to lure the enemy and snuff them out by any means possible. Remember when Levi asked Erwin what he would do after they got to the basement and his answer was simply "to eliminate threats" - and Marley is that threat. The islanders never wanted this. They never wanted to be attacked that day, and they never wanted to wage war against their friends or kill common peoples like them, but they were backed into a corner. And when your back is against the wall, your only option is to fight back for survival, even if it pains you to do it. From a certain view, the Marleyans chose this for themselves. Just like Bertolt bit the bullet when he said "no matter what happens, I'm sure I'll be fine with however things turn out" and pushed forward with the attack on Shiganshina, only to later end up screaming for his friends in a titan's mouth, Marley bit the bullet when they decided to declare war on Paradis without ever even *trying* to hear out the other side. They turned the once complacent and peaceful people within the walls, who were just sitting on the island threatening no one nine years ago, into their greatest enemy not only by attacking them unprovoked, but also by sending titans there for a century and keeping them trapped. They funneled cruelty and hatred towards the walls, and now that force is coming back at them. Marley made their bed and now they're lying in it. You can sympathize with the Warriors, and to an extent, I think Eren does with Reiner, but he is only one pawn. The nation of Marley itself is rather unsympathetic, and I think it's clear that the world viewing the islanders as a threat is only an excuse for them to keep hating them. Even though Willy knew the truth the whole time that the king would never attack, he still despises his blood. Even though Marley knew the whole time that the islanders would never leave, they still oppressed them and sent titans to kill them. What for the scouts was simply a desperate struggle against subjugation, lies, and an attempt at achieving freedom on their own land during the uprising was instead construed by Marley as an act of war. When your first reaction to oppressed people simply trying to gain self autonomy and the right to life is to eliminate them, chances are they aren't actually that big of a threat and you are the oppressor who was already looking for an excuse to be rid of them. Unfortunately, though this world harbors idealistic characters, the cruelty seems inescapable. Yes, the people involved are the ones who make it cruel by perpetuating that cruelty, but at the same time, it's almost like they have no choice but to be cruel. The island is hardly a post-survival society when the titans were present, and that mode of living carries over to the present. If the islanders kept trying to sue for peace, they would all die. Armin is right in that "surely there was another solution," but that solution is only possible when both sides want peace. The islanders didn't have the time or the methods to change the hearts of an entire world who's hated them for a century or more before that hatred came barreling down on them, and that's the tragedy of it.

Nick
>>61782564

I'm cheering for the people of Paradis to. you know, not die. But not specifically cheering for Eren yknow?

Anonymous

From what i get from the how people transform into titan is that it requires 2 trigger, one is a pain sensation and another is a conviction of will. Eren learned how to control when he transform and when to heal. He cut his hand before because he worry someone might grab his hands if he decide to cut himself on the spot. The 2nd trigger is the conviction of will, which in this case at first he wasn't sure he wanted to destroy kill his enemies since he live with them for some time and empathise with them. But he was waiting to hear what Willy will say, when Willy decide to declare war on him and the island, Eren see no way out and gain conviction to transform to destroy his enemies.

Fredo_Credo

ill never get tired of your Erwin patriotic music cuts xD

ArmdVctr

I'm worried Alex will get broken hearted with the next episode which I assume he's watched by now.

Stefan

Actually rewatched this for the sole purpose of your Erwin fanboy speech. Gold.

Maia Brodsky

When Eren said the same reason as you, to Reiner, I also thought he meant coming to Marley. But now in hindsight, I believe he meant the same reason Reiner came to Paradis and destroyed the wall. Because he didn't have a choice. Not saying I agree with Eren's logic either, just pointing out what I think he really meant by saying that.

Maia Brodsky

I hope you eventually realized that Eren never controlled Reiner. Not sure where you got that idea.

Anonymous

Eren was there waiting to see if they declare war and became enemys, thats why he waited until the "declaration of war". And he didn't do anything to Rainer, he just tranformed in that moment hahaha

Anonymous

In my eyes Eren has changed after all. He didn’t want the exact “revenge” from the first episodes after the Cave episode with Historia. I’m a orphanage conversation with her Eren said he simply “must” kill Reiner and Berthold not that he wanted to do it. And he continued to reshape his motivation further. So I think it’d be a little unfair to claim that he wants “revenge” or “wrath” at this point. At least in my eyes

Anonymous

In a manga there was one frame that portrayed Eren’s sadness, understanding of the situation and a lot of other emotions after Willy declared war on Paradis. Also Eren never controlled Reiner

Shawn Brink

"They're clearly not this great enemy that's gonna launch titans onto the mainland" he said.