Home Artists Posts Import Register

Content

First, do no harm.

It was the first line of my [Oath]. The central, guiding principle with which I’d led my life.

The [Oath] in question had a baseline, the letter of the law. It also had the spirit of the law, and with how restriction skills worked, I needed to follow both letter and spirit.

On top of that, I had my own personal ethics, areas where I went above and beyond a single skill. Like, “Don’t steal stuff” wasn’t part of my [Oath], but barring exceptional circumstances, I wasn’t about to start plundering and looting. As tempting as it was at times.

One belief I had was in non-malfeasance. My healing shouldn’t be the cause of harm - at least, when I wasn’t actively defending myself. A practical application was with the shimagu. They were intelligent creatures. Everyone deserved life. Preserving that was my life’s mission. Simply killing them out of hand, when I wasn’t defending myself, wasn’t ok. Granted, I’d been using the most generous definition of self-defense while in the city.

This wasn’t part of [Oath], not when a shimagu was controlling another intelligent creature. It did apply when a shimagu was controlling a dinosaur, or non-intelligent creature.

As I realized what I’d eaten, as yet another casual atrocity was revealed to me, that belief crumbled to dust.

I was a healer. I had ethics, principles, beliefs. I’d like to think they were noble.

I’d wanted to believe that I’d stick to them, no matter what was presented to me. That principles only mattered when tested, when sticking to them was hard. That’s why they were principles. Otherwise, what was the point?

But this?

This was the natural conclusion of my ethics in action? This is what I had to allow, to keep my principles?

I’d been gone too long. I’d been in too many shit situations. Formorians, barren lands, dwarves, gods, dragons, guardians, mines, orcs, traps, decapitation, capture, escape, horrors, months trapped underground, dragons and dryads, elves and centaurs, trolls and hydras, White Dove, gnolls, raptors, dinosaurs, and now shimagu.

Shimagu casually butchering humans in the street, and selling them as a delicacy, with salt and pepper.

I felt myself break inside.

I felt my beliefs take a haircut.

[Oath] did not bar me from healing a person controlled by a shimagu, unconditionally.

I was seeing red. Hot fury coursed through me. Rage and wrath clouded my judgement, narrowed my focus. Nothing else mattered but this one problem, this one massive injustice in this part of the world.

I clenched and ground my teeth, while balling my hands into fists. A primal snarl was etching itself on my face.

For once, I had the power to make changes. I had the power to right the injustice.

That’s just what I did.

My scream of outrage went with a full-area blast of my healing. A dozen people around me froze, but I didn’t bother waiting to see what happened. What they’d do.

I launched myself up, taking flight just above the average head height, and blasted down the street, keeping my healing up. I didn’t look to see if Aegion or Kiyaya were following.

I didn’t care.

I swept street after street, always choosing the larger road. Aiming for the largest crowds.

The city was big. There was only so much I could cover.

Each part I did cover though? Freedom. Escape.

Chaos.

While I was flitting around the fortress in the middle of the city, I saw a rapidly-expanding cloud of Ash coming from the port, followed by an eruption of Lava.

Serondes and the devil were still going at it. Presumably Awarthril was around, just less flashy.

They could use some help and backup. If nothing else, after the fight they’d probably have a number of burns, sharp metal pieces, and other problems.

I started heading that way, zig-zagging through the roads, dropping shimagu by the dozen.

By the hundreds.

Thousands.

The shimagu didn’t take my assault lying down. Given my speed, given the size of the streets, they only had seconds to react and try something. Anything.

The smart ones fled, hiding in buildings. I didn’t bother chasing them down, not with larger crowds to handle, not with the shade forcing me to touch them. It’d take like eight seconds to track one down and manually heal them, versus getting a few dozen other shimagu in the same timeframe.

The stupid ones braced themselves, arming themselves with a makeshift weapon. Table legs and clubs, metal poles and, in one memorable case, an entire cart. They lined themselves up in my path, ready to take a powerful swing as I passed.

Idiots.

My healing was ranged, and any shimagu was purged before I got close enough for them to attack.

The desperate ones threw whatever was at hand at me. Sticks, bags, pottery, coins, charcoal, fruits - whatever was in their hands. Whatever they could just grab in the moment.

I flickered [Mantle] to stop particularly noxious items hitting my face or the egg, not wanting to impede my vision. Otherwise, I blazed on, wobbling a bit as a particularly heavy jar clipped my shoulder.

I was wrath incarnate, the great harbinger of Black Crow. I was furious, seeing red and Black.

I kept enough self-control to not hit dinosaurs, or other creatures that shimagu might’ve taken over. I wasn’t so far gone to start openly violating [Oath] in that way. However, I maintained situational awareness. A dinosaur that didn’t run? A therizinosaurus that looked like it was going to take a swipe?

Self-defense.

I blasted them.

With all that said, when I ran into a squad of guards that had bows at the ready? I didn’t assume I was suddenly invincible. I fell back on my training, blinding them before dodging, swerving, or diving into the recently freed and confused crowd, rolling, sliding, dodging, and generally making myself hard to hit.

I’d occasionally fly over a block of buildings, making myself unpredictable. Making it hard to track where I was, where I was going, where I’d be next. Taking my time, letting my mana regenerate to kill even more.

I briefly turned my notifications on, checking half a second of notifications.

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Lord of One (Ooze, 321)]//[Heavy Lumberjack (Metal, 222)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Regent of Bone (Ooze, 345)]//[Wool Tailor (Wind, 189)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Mate for Life (Ooze, 168)]//[Bricklayer (Lava, 138)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Tyrannical Overlord (Ooze, 194)]//[Light Armor Smith (Metal, 217)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Lazy Boss (Ooze, 184)]//[Street Sweeper (Pyronox, 224)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Best Buddy (Ooze, 157)]//[Smith’s Apprentice (Metal, 31)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Merciless Tyrant (Ooze, 326)]//[Pearl Diver (Ocean, 201)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Master of the Body (Ooze, 151)]//[Fisherooze (Water, 169)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Comfortable Comrade (Ooze, 320)]//[Cunning Trader (Sound, 188)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Sovereign (Ooze, 270)]//[Fruit Farmer (Verdant, 60)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Diabolical Puppetmaster (Ooze, 338)]//[Best Gossip in Town (Wind, 325)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain an [Inner Confidant (Ooze, 235)]//[Town Crier (Wind, 66)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Personal Monarch (Ooze, 256)]//[Fine Textile Weaver (Forest, 260)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Despicable Dictator (Ooze, 282)]//[Socialite (Mirror, 102)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Despot (Ooze, 205)]//[Accountant (Water, 92)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain a [Cozy Companion (Ooze, 318)]//[Tax Collector (Metal, 269)]]

I stopped checking after the [Tax Collector]. A lifelong fantasy come true.

I closed my ears. I only looked forward, navigating through the city, not looking down. Not looking behind me.

My mana was going down, and a little voice in my head was telling me to slow down, that I needed to conserve mana. My little breaks here and there weren’t enough.

I didn’t want to conserve mana.

I wanted to punish shimagu.

I wanted them to hurt.

I pulled myself short at that thought. It was like a bucket of ice-cold water washing over me.

I wanted the shimagu to suffer? That wasn’t me.

Or rather, since it was my thought, it was me. It just wasn’t who I wanted to be. My anger was cooling.

I was already walking a razor-thin line. I was going down a nasty way.

I needed to stop. To take a break.

I looked at my mana, dangerously low. Less than 10,000 points of mana left, and it was only because my regeneration had spiked so high with all the levels I’d gotten that I had anything at all.

Unceremoniously crashing to the ground would be a poor move.

I flew up. Up, away from the shimagu. Up, away from the freed hosts. Up, into the smoky sky.

The pterodactyls had gotten a good view of what I’d been up to. They stayed well clear.

Up and up I went, higher and higher. I’d never gone so high, Sky’s warning about not flying too high having kept me at lower altitudes. I ascended until I was panting in the thin air, too high to see anyone, then I looked down.

Smoke covered the city, spewing from dozens of fires. Rows of neat buildings were rudely interrupted with gaping holes of destruction, from where the shimagu mage had sent giant metal pillars after us. Dust coated a third of the city, while Ash covered half the city, from the port to the fortress dominating the center of the city.

The fight and the mess had taken the entire day. We’d started at sunrise, and now the sun was setting, throwing shadows that the fires were vigorously fighting against.

The Ash and large area of effect skills had ceased, and I carefully filtered my notifications for high-level kills.

[*ding!* Your party has slain an [Driven Taskmaster (Ooze, 588)]//[The Hammer (Mithril, 560)//[The Anvil(Mithril, 345]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain an [Contracted in Triplicate (Ooze, 672)]/[Wave Rider (Water, 621)]/(Herald of Thousand Spinning Shards (Metal, 555)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain an [Obscurer of the Sun and Skies (Ash, 666)]/[The Scalding Squall (Steam, 635)]/ The Last Gasp (Miasma, 450)]]

[*ding!* Your party has slain an [Captain of Wood and Flesh (Ooze, 621)]//[Endless Shipwright (Forest, 485)]//[Master of the Storm (Storm, 284)]]

The Ash non-shimagu combined with the Metal shimagu at practically the same time implied that Awarthril and Serondes had managed to kill the devil.

I oriented myself - easy, when north was where the ocean was - and spotted a hill to the east. Flashing bright Radiance down towards the city, trying, hoping to maybe signal the elves where I was going, I headed out.

I was done with the city.

I sent another flash of light at Cordamo as I passed near him, before sitting down on the hill, back resting against a tree.

I forced myself to look at the city. To look at what I’d done.

The city had been peaceful yesterday. It’d been at ease this morning.

Then I came along, and now what? Thousands, if not tens of thousands dead. A city in flames. More would die in the aftermath.

Because of me.

Who’d sworn to do no harm.

The guilt crashed into me like a wave.

I wasn’t being penalized by [Oath]. What I’d done was too abstract. I’d freed someone from his chains, and he went around lighting fires. I wasn’t responsible for that, from [Oath]’s perspective. I’d been a hostile in a city, and indiscriminate force had been unleashed to put a stop to me. Again, I was responsible, but not responsible, so [Oath] was silent.

Damn it.

I almost wish it wasn’t.

How many had I personally killed? I was about to look at my notifications, when I checked myself.

I was going to have a ton. I mentally fiddled with the notifications, compressing them. I couldn’t figure out how to get the species instead of anything else, but otherwise, it mostly worked for kill notifications from the last day.

[*ding!* Your party has slain 8,096 Ooze-Element creatures!]

How many people total was I responsible for today? How many humans and ogres had died?

I added in the dinosaurs, just because filtering them out was hard.

[*ding!* Your party has slain 10,559 creatures!]

Even as I watched, the number ticked up. It was possible that I was getting credit for “knock-off” kills. How would I know? “Practically burned a city to the ground, incited massive riots, and killed thousands” wasn’t a well-studied System phenomena. Generally, when similar events happened in Remus, we didn’t send scholars to interview the perpetrators. We didn’t gather and collate data. No, Rangers and Sentinels were sent in to deal with the problem.

I checked the rest of my levels.

[*Ding!* Congratulations! [The Dawn Sentinel] has leveled up to level 424->511! +3 Dexterity, +24 Speed, +24 Vitality, +170 Mana, +170 Mana Regen, +48 Magic power, +48 Magic Control from your Class per level! +1 Free Stat for being Human per level! +1 Mana, +1 Mana Regen from your Element per level!]

DOVE CURSE THEM ALL! Level 511?! 511!?!!?! Ooooh, I should go right back there, and give them a piece of my mind until I hit 512.

Oh gods, what was I thinking? Over ten thousand lives, reduced to almost a hundred levels, and I wanted to go back for more?

I felt disgust welling up inside of me, and I let it out, retching.

No.

That was also an utterly stupid number of levels. It was on par with Destruction unleashing the earthquake on the Formorian queens, and annihilating huge portions of the swarms. On the plus side, freeing enslaved Remus citizens (Or… well, not citizens because Remus was a huge pain about citizenship, but WHATEVER) was a super-Sentinelish thing to do. I had [Passionate Learning]. I was out of the dead zone. I’d used the class in a direct, offensive manner, which was new. I’d investigated a major threat on Remus’s borders.

On the downside, the healing I’d done would’ve been worth a ton less if the shimagu didn’t have their own classes. Their own intelligence.

A strong sonder came over me, the crushing weight of how many hopes, dreams, and ambitions I’d just casually snuffed out washing over me once again. My heart plummeted into my feet, my stomach dropping out as once again I’d realize just what I’d done.

I was not cut out for mass-murder. No matter how justified.

[*ding!* [Celestial Affinity] has leveled up! 424 -> 471]

For the first time in forever, my affinity skill wasn’t capped. Weird. Guess it was because of how fast I’d leveled or something?

[*ding!* [Cosmic Presence] has leveled up! 287 -> 300]

Seemed like a lot.

[*ding!* [Center of the Universe] has leveled up! 424 -> 450]

All of these skills uncapping were going to be a huge pain to re-cap.

Also, I wasn’t looking forward to what torment I’d have to go through to cap my anti-pain skill.

[*ding!* [Dance with the Heavens] has leveled up! 424 -> 511]

I wasn’t surprised in the slightest.

[*ding!* [Wheel of Sun and Moon] has leveled up! 424 -> 511]

I was probably capped here for ages.

[*ding!* [Mantle of the Stars] has leveled up! 424 -> 469]

Permanent shielding for the win! It was a nice number.

I slightly regretted not using [Sunrise] at all. Ah well!

512 was around the corner. I should start doing some serious planning on my third class… and how long I was going to wait before taking it.

[*ding!* Congratulations! [Butterfly Mystic] has leveled up to level 348->357! +8 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +70 Speed, +70 Vitality, +70 Mana, +70 Mana Regen, +70 Magic power, +70 Magic Control from your Class per level! +1 Free Stat for being Human per level! +1 Strength, +1 Mana Regen from your Element per level!]

Practically nothing compared to my [The Dawn Sentinel] levels. Wasn’t going to complain, especially since the levels were “justified” - I had no issues lasering velociraptors that were trying to tear me apart.

I had issues with the shimagu because…

The shimagu were different because…

… I had no good words why.

The capped [Butterfly Mystic] skills stayed capped.

[*ding!* [Solar Flare] has leveled up! 88 -> 130]

Merge already!

[*ding!* [Scintillating Ascent] has leveled up! 314 -> 333]

Solid levels!

[*ding!* [Long-Range Identify] has leveled up! 370 -> 375]

[*ding!* [Pristine Memories] has leveled up! 220 -> 221]

[*ding!* [Egg Incubation] has leveled up! 55 -> 94]

Egg protection duty! Woo!

I looked down at the egg, still safe. Still attached. Still warm, in the [Mantle] and sash Serondes made.

Good.

Wonder when it’ll hatch?

I squinted at it. Did it just rock a hair? Or was it my imagination?

[*ding!* [Bullet Time] has leveled up! 424 -> 511]

[*ding!* [Oath of Elaine to Lyra] has leveled up! 375 -> 376]

Oooof. If nothing else, [Oath] only moving a single level, in spite of all the “healing” I’d done, was a damning indictment of my actions.

[*ding!* [Sentinel’s Superiority] has leveled up! 396 -> 511]

I’d just been the most Sentinely Sentinel who ever Sentineled.

[*ding!* [Persistent Casting] has leveled up! 299 -> 315]

Awww, no upgrade at 300. I was disappointed.

[*ding!* [Passionate Learning] has leveled up! 379 -> 380]

With no small amount of dread, I checked when, exactly, in my log that I’d gotten that level of [Passionate Learning].

My stomach rebelled at the answer.

It also reminded me why I’d done it. Why I’d zipped around at high speeds, healing as many people as possible. Yes, the city had been safe. The city had been peaceful. It was a lie. An illusion, built on the backs of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of enslaved people. People, who the moment they were freed, immediately and violently turned on their oppressors. People who’d chosen to go down fighting, to go down swinging, rather than go back to the worst kind of slavery.

They were free.

Many had died, would die, but nearly all of them had made the choice to fight back. They didn’t need to.

There was a deep train of thought there, ideas and concepts to explore, especially as it related to Remus.

Importantly, it reaffirmed my decision to be a Sentinel. Of the importance of the Rangers. I’d effectively been a single powerful, violent, high-level Classer inside a city, hellbent on killing as many people as possible. And look at how well I’d succeeded.

I wasn’t the first to have such ambitions.

I wasn’t going to be the last.

Heck, I’d basically done a Hesoid, playing “how many people can I kill?”

The thought disgusted me. Made me want to punch myself.

But - I hadn’t been wrong. Had I?

I shook my head to refocus.

The shimagu had sent their own Classers against me. They’d failed.

We needed Rangers, Sentinels, and the rest to help keep the peace. To be able to deal with people who woke up one day, and chose violence.

There was something to be said for tackling the problem at its root. For solving the underlying problems that caused the behavior.

I lacked the proper social skills and know-how to even identify the problem, let alone how to fix it. I was Immortal though. I had time to work on it. Worse-case, I’d just get fabulously rich then hire a bunch of people to figure it out for me.

Until then? I was needed as a Sentinel.

My stomach rumbled again, violently, reminding me of a few important facts.

  1. I’d vomited everything I’d eaten so far today.
  2. I’d burned a huge amount of mana, and regenerated just as much. It was ravenous work, and I needed food.
  3. For the first time in ages, I didn’t know where my next meal was coming from. No elves, no spiders, no dwarves, and the local wildlife was at a minimum due to all the farms. Guess if I got hungry enough I could raid a farm for food, but stealing from a farmer, after what I’d just done? It just felt wrong.

I’d probably need to kill more shimagu.

I was conflicted about the actions I’d taken.

I wasn’t conflicted about the fact that I was tired of killing. Tired of taking lives. I needed a break.

Soon. Remus was close enough that humans were occasionally wandering over here.

A grey smear in the sky caught my eye. It looked like Cordamo, and without getting up, without moving, I flashed Radiance at him, signaling where I was.

I’d been ruminating, running from one thought to the next, but now I finally had time to wonder about the elves, and where they’d been. How they’d fared.

Cordamo clearly saw me, and dove down towards me.

[Name: Elaine]

[Race: Human]

[Age: 20]

[Mana: 576,750/576,750]

[Mana Regen: 432,699 (+515,651)]

Stats

[Free Stats: 194]

[Strength: 1,003]

[Dexterity: 1,823]

[Vitality: 14,190]

[Speed: 14,190]

[Mana: 57,675]

[Mana Regeneration: 57,776 (+51,565)]

[Magic Power: 22,735 (+427,418)]

[Magic Control: 22,735 (+427,418)]

[Class 1: [The Dawn Sentinel - Celestial: Lv 511]]

[Celestial Affinity: 471]

[Cosmic Presence: 300]

[The Stars Never Fade: 2]

[Center of the Universe: 450]

[Dance with the Heavens: 511]

[Wheel of Sun and Moon: 511]

[Mantle of the Stars: 469]

[Sunrise: 347]

[Class 2: [Butterfly Mystic - Radiance: Lv 357]]

[Radiance Affinity: 357]

[Radiance Resistance: 357]

[Radiance Conjuration: 357]

[Solar Flare: 130]

[Nectar: 357]

[Sun's Heart: 357]

[Scintillating Ascent: 333]

[Kaleidoscope: 357]

[Class 3: Locked]

General Skills

[Long-Range Identify: 375]

[Pristine Memories: 221]

[Egg Incubation: 94]

[Bullet Time: 511]

[Oath of Elaine to Lyra: 376]

[Sentinel's Superiority: 511]

[Persistent Casting: 315]

[Passionate Learning: 380]

Comments

Anonymous

Oof. Hard oof.

Avery Aderyn

Poor Elaine, she was faced with an impossible decision and is suffering for it.

Sebin Paul

Oooh, evolving morality/principles? 🤤 Curious to see how this might come into play in the future.

Flying Goat

Gee, what are the odds that's either not Cordamo, or Cordamo has been Shimagu-ified. Edit: "[Mana: 576,750/576,750]" - I think she'd still be a bit low on Mana at this point. May be best to just not display current/max, since actually updating current seems like a pain.

Shoto

That was an amazing chapter!!! 511!! that was crazy!! I just hope that Elaine's leaving the front lines hasn't harmed the elves...they were helpful...to be honest, I don't want any of them to die, as that would just turn out to be a nightmare for Elaine. a very solid level gain here, now I just hope Elaine goes home to rest and cry in Artemis's lap and nothing more, she deserves it.

Shoto

no!!, Elaine shouldn't take 3rd class even if she reaches level 512. she should level up her 2 more classes, more stats should give a stronger 3rd class, Elaine's radiance class is very weak, and she has just 20 years old, there is no immediate need.

Cormac

How does her mana regeneration work again? Her regen is 432,699 [+515,651]. What is the bit in brackets? I know it comes from her Oath but I can't remember when it applies.

Shoto

Elaine has an skill that increases mana regeneration, this is the part in square brackets. her mana regeneration is 577760, but the author discounted Elaine's passive skill mana regeneration, so it's only 432,699.

Anonymous

So close to that 3rd class unlock! Super psyched for it!

Shoto

The librarian has already given the supreme order to Elaine's third class: "You know, if it was all about reading, you could just reset your class, and keep resetting it every time you hit level 32." “Ooooh! That’d be so fun! I’d probably end up dead. No defenses, and if nothing else, I’d annoy people to the point where they’d want to murder me with too many week-long binge reading sessions.” I said

Alex Galaitsis

Very cool chapter. A lot of story resolution and character development!

Anonymous

It's nice to take a break in the middle of a war you started... She will probably have to continue until everyone is free and healed since at this point she knows that there are injured people in the city and she's the only healer.

Anonymous

Is the egg going to hatch now and lock her at level 511 until the companion catches up?

Tatiana Saturno

Well... That certainly drives home again how [Oath] depends on her perspective. About her class, remember people talking about a class that originates from fire and metal, but no one knows if it's really true?!!! What if she gets metal for third class, it fuses with fire, she gets a new class and there's an opening for one more class?!!! That would be insane, just like her healing class. How come she is viewing herself as the only bad person. 10k people dead, how many of those are because of the elfs?! Can't wait for the next chapter. Thank you!

BluEarth

Very happy that Elaine has finally realized keeping a sentient imprisoned in their own mind is EVIL and the sentient is a patient who needs to be healed to free their mind. It was really bugging me how she was agonizing about the Shimagu. It is self-obvious that if healing a patient kills a parasite you are helping your patient not harming them. Harming them would be leaving them infected.

Alexey Gladkich

I doubt that. It's more likely that first the Companoin needs to unlock the system and be bonded with her. She'll surely get a level by then.

Cirvante

Sounds like a plan. And postponing her third class in order to get a higher quality later like Serondes is a pretty good excuse.

Alexey Gladkich

About Fire+Metal elements, Elaine definitely knew about it. Only that those elements are useless for low-level people of Remus. She was offered a Mythril Mage at 128-level upgrade. The element is surely useful for smiths to make high quality armor/weapons but for others?

11037

I wish people were more open to other perspectives. The shimagu are people, with all that comes with that. They have their own culture, a peaceful city, and programs to try and raise willing hosts instead of unwilling ones. (And some of them are willing, from what we've seen) You need a damn good reason to kill sentient people. That they are enslaving and eating humans IS a good reason from a human perspective, obviously, but most people don't care to even think that far. They're EVIL so their perspective doesn't matter. I think that's sad.

Joshua Little

Thanks for the chapter.

Cirvante

To be specific, the element is only useful if you have access to the material. It's specifically mentioned in the element interlude chapter that magic metal mages can't conjure up the metal. They can only manipulate it. So unless you have access to an Orichalcum mine, becoming an Orichalcum-aligned crafter or mage would be dumb as hell. Like taking World Traveller without the ability to travel to other worlds. The presence of a Mithril crafter in shimagu town indicates that they have access to the stuff. Humanity in Remus is so far behind technologically and magically, it's no wonder the elves rate them only slightly higher than goblins.

Melting Sky

Elaine is really lucky there is a system loophole in her Oath when it comes to murdering innocent parasites with healing. If you take a quick look through her notifications about a fifth of those Shimugu were innocents who were living a happy cooperative existence with their host. You figure a good chunk of those were probably trying to attack her to defend themselves, but even taking all that into consideration she must have murdered many hundreds if not thousands of innocent shimugu who were just going about their lives with their BFF hosts when Elaine popped up out of nowhere and slew them. I mean sure they are living in an evil society supported by slavery and not doing anything about it but the same is true of humanity in this world just to a lesser degree. It would be kind of a fitting twist if Elaine returned to Remus to find all her friends and family dead, killed by an attack by some other sentient race that came in from outside and carpet-bombed the humans for creating an evil slave-based society, doing the same exact thing to Remus that she just did to this city of Shimugu.

bob barker

such neuroticism that she'd abandon needed sustenance because she didn't like where the food came from, leaving her and thousands of people at the mercy of tyrants. Such a silly little girl. ...and with the contaminant removal, couldn't she eat some particularly fragrant dirt and just heal the unnecessary parts out of her digestive system? If not, then she'd have a heck of a lot of insoluble "fiber".

Melting Sky

Although the Elves certainly did help with a lot of those kills, Elaine was BY FAR their most powerful offensive weapon. She had a giant invisible ball of instant death that was centered on her as she darted through the streets at whatever ridiculous speed she runs at these days. Remember she has the speed of like a lvl 200ish physical classer so she is probably running at the sort of speeds you would need a car to reach in the mundane world.

Anonymous

There is a reverse to first do no harm. There is the choice. You choose not to harm others. Then there is the choice to allow harm to happen to others. By doing nothing you are doing harm. Those people suffer torture every second of every day. Allowing their suffering would be harm.

Anonymous

As for those brainwashed since young to welcome their parasite overlords remember we already saw the prospective of a willing slave. He may have come from one of their human farms but he never willingly accepted being a host and activly tried to sabotage it so they both would die. At this point I dont think there is a willing host despite what some of the names imply.

11037

From what I understand the shimagu can only use active skills if the host willingly uses them. So that big fight they just had with the guy dropping skyscrapers on them was against a willing host, as was the previous fight with the guy who tried to trap Elaine. And really, if they were raised/brainwashed since they were born for this purpose, and the shimagu chosen for them was friendly, it isn't that surprising some of them are willing.

Tjark

That's an interesting take although it clashes with Elaine's attitude of "I'm not responsible for what other people do". And that attitude has helped her avoid oath penalties a lot.

Anonymous

Elaine is a healer, not a judge "I will not discriminate who I heal based on class, sex, race, what gods they pray to, nor by any other means." Choosing that humans are patient and Shimagu can be killed cause they use a host to live is racial discrimination. Judging if Shimagu are evil or not based on what? human moral? I think in Shimagu moral they are not evil but healers are evil... And she had killed all Shimagu in her sight, in her list of kill, some have a class like "best buddy" "comfortable comrade" "cozy companion" "inner confidant" maybe they were in symbiosis and not in master/servant relation. She had started her slaughter cause they eat humans? Orc eats dwarfs and I'm pretty sure they could eat humans too... Dragons eat everything... And I think troll would have no problem with eating humans... In the end, I approve génocide of Shimagu but I am human and I discriminate against mind-controlling worms...But I understand the ethical problem for Elaine

Cirvante

They aren't trying to raise willing hosts, they are deliberately keeping them in the dark and tell them to pick passive skills. This and what we've seen so far implies that they aren't even trying to achieve symbiosis. They do not teach their young to cooperate, I'd be surprised if the willing hosts with friendly shimagu make up more than 1% of their population. For the rest it is cruel slavery and any that become unsuitable as hosts, be it through injury, old age or resetting back to level 8, are brutally butchered. And before you say that Shimagu can peacefully coexist with their hosts, their society is run by those very symbionts. They would have the power to change shimagu society into one that teaches and values symbiosis and coexistence. And yet they simply lord their powers over others and change nothing. The way they are using sapient beings as nothing but convenient flesh suits and treat them like cattle proves that their society is beyond redemption. Show them the same contempt that they show other sapient life and remove them like the parasites they are.

Cirvante

Basically slaves who arranged themselves with their masters, wo weren't complete assholes. I doubt they made an informed decision to accept a shimagu into their body. They simply arranged themselves with the one controlling them. The fact that symbiotic shimagu hosts with combat classes, who are the most powerful and respected among them, haven't reformed shimagu society, speaks volumes about the nature of their relationship with their hosts. Basically the equivalent of an Uncle Tom.

Anonymous

1) Elaine don't read the interlude so she don't know their custom 2) Even if she know their custom and only 1% of the shimagu are symbionts how to différentiate ? Kill the innocent too ? 3) You use sapient beings freedom and right as the criteria for judgement if you use sentient being freedom and right as the criteria most human are evil, if you use mind being as the criteria Shimagu are good guy they just enslave and eat sapient being and sentient being...

Anonymous

If you consider that by doing nothing you are doing harm then Elaine can't walk in a town cause if she see a begar she would NEED to help him cause he suffer, if she see a killer being cautgh by the guard she will NEED to help him cause he will be executed, if a ranger try to kill someone she will NEED to stop them cause if she don't she will cause harm to him ?

TroubleFait

I'd think they can conjure the metal, but that it's costly in mana and that in degrades so they can't make items with it.

Melting Sky

You can tell via their class titles if the host was willing and the shimugu was a friendly partner rather than a tyrant. Most were of the tyrant enslaver variety if the samples we saw in Elaine's interface are any indication, The ratio seems to be roughly four or five enslavers to every one cooperative shimugu.

LeapoldJKLOL

No one seems to Care that Oath became a complete Joke where she doesn't follow either the Letter or Intent of the Skill just because the Shimagu are evil. Yes, we get it, they are evil slavers. I agree. But to turn what should be Elaine's Hardest Adversaries, creatures that are her Hard Counter because of her Oath with the Dual Nature of Host and Shimagu, into a Joke with some Handwaving of Oath is a terrible way to go about this. Especially with what we have seen from Oath Already. Kill one Host while you are being stabbed through the spine? Full on Oath Torture session to make sure you remember not to break the Oath. Kill Thousands of Shimagu who haven't actively attack you? Totally Fine.

Rainer

@figngin Look at how many of the people just started fighting everything in sight after they were freed, and just watching a man smiling while he is getting torn apart by not resisting? Not to mention the conversation with the Remus man. I think Elaine knows all she needs to to know that they aren't willing in the most part. And trying to find out who's willing and who's not would be like trying to avoid healing a dwarves body enhancement in the middle of a war.

Rainer

She has light, fire, and dark for her main elements at the moment. Celestial and radiance being her sub elements. She has a full healing, and as we've seen, not just healing, class. She also has a combat/utility class. Her third class being for her pet, or as an element test class, would be a good idea.

Anonymous

Erm is it bad that I want her to go back and purge them all and get a new class up?

SuperiorFreak

The Shimagu aren’t enslaving anyone. They are controlling peoples bodies. There’s a difference. Enslavement implies choice. It implies that the person is choosing to be a slave instead of risking punishment for freedom. Being a passenger in your own body most certainly isn’t slavery. Are the Shimagu evil? No. But they are literally stealing peoples lives, and so it is only fair that they be willing to die in turn. Live by the sword, be ready to die by the sword. Its not about good or evil, its about fairness. You want to kill somebody? Okay. Just be prepared for something to try and kill you back.

Anonymous

I highly doubt the names were that black and white. Just because a class is named something nice does not in anyway mean they were any better than the others. Perfect example: Https://worm.fandom.com/wiki/Nice_Guy

Shoto

in this regard, the author made it very clear that Elaine's act was on a very "grey" track. She only gained 1 level in the oath after healing and saving nearly 10,000 people from mind-controlling parasites. If it were in a "white" way, if for example the Shimagus were intellectless parasites that turn people into zombies, Elaine would have gained about 50 levels in the oath. Elaine has greatly enforced the terms of her oath here.

Jeanean

This Chapter is missing th "Story-BTDEM" tag. Please fix, Selkie. Thanks!

SelkieMyth

It's been made explicitly clear multiple times - ever since the Ethical Examinations chapter - that shimagu controlling a human is a greyzone. If she purges the shimagu, she's arguably violating do no harm. If she doesn't, she's arguably violating "Must perform every measure for her patients". There's no clean, clear-cut answer. Elaine wrestled with the question, and initially landed on "Shimagu are weird and I don't like them, but they're fully thinking, sapient beings. I won't be the cause of their death." In this arc, we've seen that ideal tested, and found wanting. Elaine changed her mind basically. Then let loose. Put it another way - Elaine found Oath was contradicting itself, and she made a choice.

SelkieMyth

The issue is dirt is almost entirely devoid of nutrition. Like, even with fancy healing

Jeanean

IIrc, Elaine became a Sentinel because she had effective 50.000 Magic powr and control while healing. Now, a few years later, she has a bit over NINE TIMES that. Despite that, her ACTUAL Magic power and control, aren't even at half the value, only her Mana and regeneration being at over 50.000. Goes to show how ridiculously OP her Oath is.

Cirvante

From the Magic Elements Interlude: "It's the ability to work and shape that material directly, although there's an inability to conjure up the material." No magic metal conjuration.

Cirvante

I disagree with you on the slavery part. Definition of slavery: "the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his or her life, liberty, and fortune." What the Shimagu are doing is simply a more complete form of slavery, that removes almost all agency the slave has over their own life. The only resistance they have is to make themselves a less suitable host, by picking active skills and not using them, and the only escape they have is to retreat into their soul indefinitely or chose death by resetting both classes to level 8. Evil is a subjective term and is largely dependant on perspective. No one is the villain in their own story afterall. From the shimagu's perspective, they are the good guys just trying to survive or something. From a non-shimagu perspective they are evil brain parasites. From a dragon perspective they are just food with a double kill notification. Generally, I agree with you though, if you steal people's bodies and use them as disposable flesh suits, then you deserve to be treated like a malignant parasite in return.

Cirvante

Selkie basically had the choice between 'Oath paradox: Oath forces Elaine into breaking Oath, Elaine dies.' and 'Oath paradox: Oath stays silent and lets Elaine figure it out, Elaine lives.' I happen to rather like this story, so I'm glad he chose the latter.

Cirvante

She could always chomp on her own fingers like that freak from Perinthus. I wonder if he had the Cannibalism skill. Seriously though, even on farmland there should be rodents, bugs and worms. She's eaten worse.

Cirvante

I still maintain that if Destruction took a restrictive Oath that increased the power and control of his channeled spells, he'd be able to dramatically cut down on channeling time.

SuperiorFreak

Eh, I still disagree with the slavery definition since that definition was built with concept of human slavery in mind. Shimagu dont tell you what to do, they literally take the choice from you. To me that makes a big difference. As at least a slave can choose to tell their master to fuck off. Slavery imo requires choice. Its why a robot isn’t considered a slave, it doesn’t have a choice to make. At least this is my take on it.

Cirvante

A robot isn't sapient though. If you had a sapient AI that was forced to be a servant through it's code, then it would be a slave. An example would be Dragon from Worm, although she had quite a bit of autonomy. A slave being able to defy their master is by no means a criteria of slavery and I have already mentioned a few ways in which a shimagu host can use passive resistance, mentally check out or chose death. Shimagu control is very much slavery. Since I mentioned Dragon from Worm, in that fictional universe you have parahumans with Master-classifications. Regent for example is able to physically control others not unlike shimagu, although he can use their powers as well. His father Heartbreaker can make women fall in love with him until they serve him without question. Both of these examples are slavery and in both cases the victims have no real means of defying their master.

Skydda Dragontooth

Fun Fact: the origin of the word robot comes from the Czech word robota meaning forced labor or slave

LeapoldJKLOL

How is Oath Contradicting itself? Shimagu are either fully Sapient Beings, which it very much looks like. Or they Aren't. Why Does Elaine Get to Choose if something is Sapient or not? is i don't like them enough to get you demoted to the Non Sapient List? Why Bother Having restrictions on Oath if they just don't matter? Why does every section of Oath apply to who we Like, but not to who we don't like? Its supposed to be a system enforced skill isn't it? Why is Elaine the Arbiter of what is acceptable or no, because so far whenever she gets in a bind Oath goes right out the window with some half Backed excuse as to why in this particular instance with this particular group of Being it doesn't count. Just to be clear, I have no problem with what Elaine Did to the Shimagu, I just think that being allowed to do it because "Hand wavy Reasons" is terrible, but if she did it knowing an Oath Penalty was on the way and did it anyways because she felt it was the correct thing to do would have been an Epic Character Growing moment. Instead we Get some garbage about Elaine Thinks Oath doesn't count towards Shimagu because she dosen't like them, Grey Area, blah blah blah its ok because again "Reasons" Spirit and Letter of Oath Ignored.

Shoto

but what kind of oath?? It has to be something restrictive for the person. It could be something like he can only use the magic charge skills he uses to unleash his super spells on monsters that threaten the life of humanity. He could still act like a normal mage, but will only do mana storage skills in emergencies and nothing else.

Shoto

man, stop being boring. It has already been explained that the oath contradicts itself. And even the author made the exact part clear. The act of not killing the Shimagus can be characterized as Elaine abandoning her patient, the host. Of course there is the situation when the host is friends with the Shimagu, but what about the people who are being tortured and controlled?? who prefer death to being controlled. In that chapter of the slave ogre, he said that when he reached level 256 he would go to his soul world and expect to die. Not removing the parasite with Elaine being able to kill the parasite is abandoning the patients, killing the parasites that did not directly attack Elaine is doing evil acts. An area where there is no right or wrong. And the oath made the judgment, it barely rewarded Elaine for her actions.

LeapoldJKLOL

Stop Being Boring? Now there's a logical and well thought out argument. How about you stop being boring and maybe someone can tell me why Oath doesn't fully apply to Shimagu for some reason besides 'Shimagu Evil, we don't like them" All of your Arguments are basically, Shimagu are Evil Elaine is ok with Taking them out because of that. This is a Fantasy World. Explain to me why in the Eyes of the "System" that runs the world your worldview that they are evil and don't count towards breaking Oath is correct. Shimagu are behaving exactly as they were created. To you and Me, they are Evil, to a Shimagu? That's just how they are made and they are behaving how they have to. Elaines Oath Grants her so much power because of how restrictive it is, except for the fact that anytime it's not convenient there is a "Grey Area" or a "Loophole". Where was the Grey area when Elaine was being stabbed through the spine? That seemed like a pretty grey area to me, but the system decided it wasn't? Two parts of Oath are at odds with each other but no grey area that time, the System Picked "Do No Harm" and is the Intent of the Oath, but suddenly now, because "reasons" Boom Grey Area, kill as many Shimagu as you want and don't trigger Oath, Alot of which were indefensible to Oath, They didn't attack Her, they were just there. Any Grey Area's around this only appear if you Don't weigh both Host and Shimagu equally in the eyes of the system.

Cirvante

Restriction skills don't necessarily have to inconvenience the user, Night was able to restrict himself to fighting at night while losing system access during daytime due to his curse. Now Destruction has a certain way he operates, he channels for weeks and then unleashes a monstrous spell. The idea is to take an oath that restricts his channeling but barely inconveniences him in the way he uses the skill. So possible restrictions would be a time restriction, minimum time and maximum time spent channeling, no sleeping while channeling (which he can't anyway), no talking, and most importantly limiting his Channel skill to destructive spells. He won't ever be able to channel defensive, healing or utility spells. He could even call it the Oath of Destruction, it's a significant restriction that barely interferes with the way he operates. Basically find some acceptable restrictions, lawyer his way through them with Night's help to make sure he doesn't screw himself over and then take the oath and see what effect the skill has. It could be something like 2% more power and control for channeled spells, that would already be a massive advantage. At level 500 that would give him +1000% and since the restriction skill specifically targets his Channel skill, he could even potentially merge Channel and Oath of Destruction into one skill. Depending on what effect the restriction skill offers, he could potentially reduce his channeling time by a lot.

Cirvante

Maybe you should read more carefully, this has been explained multiple times already by Selkie. There is an Oath contradiction because it both says to 'Do no harm', protecting the sapient parasite, and 'Take every measure to help her patients', which includes harmful parasite removal. These two parts contradict each other and rather than forcing Elaine into suicide by Oath, the Oath is instead silent on the matter and lets her resolve it. Non-sapient hosts are the exception, since here only 'Do no harm' applies, and she can only kill them in self-defense. So again, sapient hosts have the right to be parasite-free according to Oath, creating the grey area. And the gnoll shimagu-host was innocent, which she realized just as she killed him, thus triggering the Oath punishment. If she had just healed the gnoll, even without the attack, she wouldn't have gotten punished.

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante System doesn't recognise every Oath taken. Only if it was taken seriously. Were Destruction to swear some random shit without any purpose other than to gain power, it wouldn't be an acceptible Oath. Also power+control boost would be completely useless for speeding up the Channeling time. Perhaps, control can grant some improvement for the final stages of the channelling but it is far from significant improvement. But obviously, it is Mana Regen that's the primary stat that he needs for his spells. Magic Power/Control have never been a bottleneck as he basically needs like Power = 1/360 Mana Regen to be able to pour his newly regenerated mana into the spell.

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante saying that Oath is silent on the matter is wrong. It is very Oath-related thing but Oath itself cannot resolve it. For some reason you believe that Elaine can do whatever in such cases. No, that's definitely not the case. Were she to believe that slaying Shimagu is unethical and wrong but proceeded to do so anyway - she would be punished. You keep referring to what Selkie said on the matter but you simply misread and misunderstood it.

LeapoldJKLOL

There is No Suicide by Oath, It Says "Take Every Measure to Help her Patients" Not take the Quickest and Most Convenient path to Help said Patients. It looks like you can move a Shimagu from One host to Another, so the Correct thing would be to Move the Shimagu to non-sapient hosts, that is the Very Least that she should be doing, anything less is just taking the Easy Way out. And Killing any Shimagu that did not attack her and without first making this ultimatum should absolutely have trigger her Oath. Being able to Pick and Choose when Oath applies and not makes the concept of a Restriction Skill a complete Joke, she doesn't follow either the wording or Intent, it just gives her a huge power up with no drawback if you can just game it like she is doing. She can just declare anyone her patient whenever she see's something she doesn't like and just start blasting. That is totally against the intent and letting something like that stand makes her Oath a Joke, We are literally arguing about "Grey Area's" and "Loopholes" and "Oath Conflicts" about what is basically the Hippocratic Oath, you know do no Harm. If you are committing violence of any sort without it being the absolute last and only option left you are violating its intent, and only in The Oaths case because she changed it for self defense and defending her patients. Anything less is just a cop out.

Alexey Gladkich

@LeapoldJKLOL Cirvante didn't mention the right wordings of the Oath. I will defend the patients under my care from harm and injustice. I will only take up a knife to defend myself or my patient. These pretty much allows her to butcher all the Shimagu occupying humans. It isn't US legal system. There is no innocent until proven guilty. The ethics and details of implementation are for her to resolve. Surely, were she to resolve the situation more ethically Oath would definitely favor it.

Cirvante

You'd have a point, IF the system didn't allow Night his bullshit restriction skill, that he only took to power himself up. For the system to recognize a restriction skill, you just have to mean it. You have to fully intend to follow the restrictions. Even if the restrictions are kinda bullshit. Like Iona's 'must not tell lies'. Doesn't have anything to do with protecting the weak and innocent, but it's restrictive enough to allow her to squeeze just a tiny bit more out of her Oath. Maybe limiting himself to destructive spells and adding some minor restrictions won't give Destruction a very powerful skill like Elaine's Oath. But even 2% per level would make a difference. And the way I understand it, his channeled spells still depend on his power, just with more mana poured into them. Meaning more power equals stronger spell with the same amount of mana channeled, or does power just determine the amount of mana you can use at once? In that case getting a restriction skill to increase mana regeneration while channeling would be better.

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante you misunderstand how Magic Power works. It empowers spells, yes, but it empowers them by imbuing them with more mana. Cast the same spell with same amount mana you'll get same output regardless of Magic Power (well, there are skills that affect efficiency and increase strength in other ways). Elaine is able to burn her whole mana pool in seconds by healing due to her enormous Magic Power. Which is why she also considers it kinda useless as she has surplus of it due to Oath. Channeling is the workaround to having large pool of mana and huge Magic Power. It simply uses Mana Regeneration to fuel the spell over very long period of time.

Cirvante

@Alexey By saying that Oath is silent on the matter, I meant that it doesn't force her to heal shimagu hosts and it doesn't punish her for killing shimagu. She literally flew through the city and killed "friendly" shimagu and Oath did nothing to stop her. It didn't really reward her either though. The relevant parts of her Oath in regard to healing the hosts from a parasite infection are first "I will heal those I see to the best of my ability. I will apply all measures that are required to my patients." and second "I will defend the patients under my care from harm and injustice. I will only take up a knife to defend myself or my patient." You are the one who misunderstood Selkie. It was Elaine's personal ethics that kept her from going on a shimagu-killing spree, not her Oath. Normally her Oath dictates her behaviour, but in this case it went 'Error: Please resolve!' and left it up to her. But Elaine is not a sociopath and it was her own ethical beliefs that held her back. Until she snapped and went on a healing rampage.

Cirvante

Fair enough, he should play around with different wordings and restrictions until he gets one that increases mana regeneration while using Channel. Control would be great as well, since his channeled spells tend to be rather indiscriminate. Once he upgrades his Water class to Ocean and channels maelstroms or tsunamis, that extra control could come in handy.

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante as far as I understand, one cannot just "play around with wording and restrictions". One makes an Oath and follows it. There's no turning back. I don't think he can remove or cancel it if the result wasn't to his liking. There's a reason why Restrictive Skills are difficult to research and normally require guidance before commitment. I think he already has some skills that significantly improve his control for channelled spells. He did some controlling over the Earthquake to squash the Formorian Queen. Although, he couldn't control the Tornado...

Alexey Gladkich

@Corvante disagree. Reread what I wrote. The Oath acts upon her interpretation of it in great deal. In both rewards and punishment. It is not set in stone but malleable with her own personal believes. Oath was silent in regards to slaying of Formorians - as those aren't intelligent. Oath isn't silent on genocide of Shimagu. It is in internal conflict and requires Elaine to resolve the dilemma. I say it again, were she to consider slaying Shimagu a wrongful act then she would be punished for it by the Oath. She wasn't punished because she came to conclusion that it was a correct thing to do.

Cirvante

One can totally play around with Oaths, as long as you can summon up the right mindset. Because the system asks you whether you want to accept the skill or not. Example: [*Ding!* You have made the promise [Oath of Elaine to Lyra]! Would you like to accept this general skill? WARNING: Oaths are binding.] and also "“You’ll need a strong degree of sincerity to make it work.” Maximus jumped in, saving my skin. “Oath, Vow, Promise, and other such related skills require effort and commitment.” “Chill.” Laid-back apprentice said. “I got this.” If you let some time pass between trying different oaths, you should be able to create the skill and decide whether you want it or not.

Shoto

but Elaine didn't come to the conclusion that it was the right thing to do ethically. She is awful about the whole situation as she really didn't follow her ethics, and the Oath went into "ERROR, please resolve" mode. The oath held that Elaine saved 10,000 people who were being controlled against their will, but Elaine killed 9900 Shimagus who did not attack her. At the end of the calculation, she gained 1 level in oath, and almost a mental meltdown, and if one of the elves is killed, I'm sure she'll fall into a mental meltdown.

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante but she couldn't see what the Oath skill did before she accepted it. Neither the apprentice could. Their only information was that a binding skill could be taken.

Cirvante

Nope, you need to reread Selkie's comments and not make up your own canon. This wasn't a 'spirit of the Oath' issue, where depending on Elaine's own views she could have been punished. It was all up to her, Oath was silent due to the conflicting parts. This whole thing was about Elaine's personal morals and how they affect her actions when Oath isn't hanging over her head. She finally snapped and went on a healing rampage. The reason she suffered no punishment wasn't because her personal ethics changed, but because Oath doesn't punish shimagu-removal in sapient hosts. Also exactly what Shoto said. She feels terrible about all the killing and didn't want to go back to continue. She still feels that killing shimagu is wrong on some level.

Alexey Gladkich

@Shoto she literally said this very chapter that despite the awfulness of the act, it was the right thing to do. Sometimes awful things are needed to be done. I suppose Oath didn't level up due to the sheer amount of internal struggle it caused within the Oath. It isn't something Oath endorses but permits it with great struggle. It didn't offer an answer to a correct set of actions.

Cirvante

Reread chapter 73 Plague III, the apprentice sees the skill effect before accepting it. Neither Elaine nor Iona do, but that may be due to lack of system customization.

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante and @Shoto yes, I reread the Selkie's comment. And you still misunderstand it. I not making it up. I write the argument again: were Elaine to believe that purging Shimagu is wrongful she would be punished by the Oath for doing so. **Do you disagree with the statement?** Say, she believed it unethical but was coerced to or by accident murder some. Imagine the examples: Shimagu only enslave awful criminals, or there was no Slavery at all and all of them were willing hosts. In these cases she would likely not change her mindset. What you misunderstand in Selkie's comment is that Oath is in self-contradictory mode. But it still requires Elaine to follow her moral judgement on the matter. She is free to choose what's the right thing to do, but it is another thing entirely whether she follows the judgement or not.

Cirvante

Selkie has already contradicted you several chapters ago. People are still not getting it and we have to keep beating the dead horse, I'm honestly sick of this shit. Read the discussion of the last comment from Municipal Massacre I, there Selkie explained it to me and everyone who bothered to read it. What he wrote there very clearly proves you wrong. I'm done here.

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante And you misunderstood what Selkie said there. You still haven't answered to my simple question: do you disagree with the argument I made? You do not even provide a counter argument. Just reference to comment you misunderstand.

LeapoldJKLOL

Her Oath Also Says she Can't Discriminate, people like to conveniently forget that part of the Oath, along with Do No Harm as long as we are harming people we don't like. These Shimagu are basically the Worse Enemies Elaine could ever have to face because of her Oath, except that it has become a Joke and only works when the story calls for it to do something. Whatever is convenient at the time is what the current interpretation is. If Oath was just a skill that powered her up I wouldn't have any issues with it at all, it would paint the whole thing in a different light, but its supposed to be a restriction skill, that grants so much power because it has drawbacks, in Elaine's case force her into actions that she may not like but has to do anyways. From there she can either just do what Oath says, or Grow as a character and decide it is flawed and just accept the punishment sometimes. Hand waving it to "Grey Areas" and "Loop Holes" cheapens it so much. No offense to the Author, but they can write whatever they want to Justify what happens in the book, doesn't mean it makes sense sometimes. There is supposed to be letter and Intent of what is in the Oath, the Intent is very much the Hippocratic Oath, so saying she gets away with things because "Grey Area" is not really viable. Sometimes its the Letter, sometimes its the Intent, sometimes its just one line while ignoring all the rest. Oath is supposed to be the foundation of Elaines Character. It can't just mold itself to whatever is happening at the moment, it needs to be constant.

Cirvante

Yes, I disagree with the argument you made because Selkie has already refuted it many chapters ago. Selkie wrote: "Basically, Oath is going "Error, conflicting instructions - Elaine please resolve." So it comes down to Elaine to perform what action she believes is right. She went back to medical ethics to try and find her answer. The principle of non-maelfeance ended up being her guiding principle, AKA she shouldn't be the source of harm. So she decided that murder wasn't the answer. However. This isn't Oath-enforced. Oath still basically says "It's your call". Elaine's current call is "Don't mass murder." See? He specifically stated that whatever Elaine decided was NOT Oath-enforced. I asked him if Elaine could have just healed a marketplace full of shimagu without self-defense in Municipal Massacre I and his answer was 'yes'. It doesn't get any clearer than that. You're just stubbornly refusing to admit that you're wrong.

Squirtle

I think he can only see it due to him taking an Oath that is already created. Which is why Elaine gets xp from people taking the Oath and them leveling it up. I think when making a NEW Oath, you can't see the benefits of it, but if taking an existing Oath, you can. At least that would make sense from the information we know

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante What Selkie said doesn't dispute what I claim. In fact, what I say is much more inline with how Oath acted throughout the series. Consider following example: Say Elaine in the future meets another Shimagu living completely ethically as a Simbiote inside a human. And talked and verified that the Shimagu is a good pal and human is happy. By your interpretation she can freely purge the Shimagu without Oath punishment. And that's obviously wrong. The fact that some Shimagu were simbiotes in the city and she slaughtered them too without punishment doesn't dispute it either as they live in society where intelligent creatures are casually murdered and tortured for fun - which is primarily why she decided to purge them. What you misunderstand is that "It's your call" means. It doesn't mean she's free to do anything. No. It means she is free to decide the correct set of actions. *Were she to severely disregard her own conclusion of what is the right thing to do, she'd be punished.* It has always been the case. Oath acts as a reflection of Elaine's beliefs. There had always been various mild gray areas but those were resolved automatically by what Elaine believed in. The Shimagu case is just far more polarising. Edit: why my comments get removed? And silently... duh.

Cirvante

According to Selkie you're wrong. When Elaine came to the city she still believed that killing shimagu outside of self-defense is wrong. And yet she could have healed sapient shimagu hosts and Oath would have done nothing. Because it's truly up to her. Even the most benign BFF shimagu could be healed by her without punishment because in the end it's still a parasite. Selkie said it's not Oath-enforced, that it's just Elaine's ethical beliefs, so your argument is false. Word of god trumps your personal headcanon.

Alexey Gladkich

@Cirvante based on the last comment it seems that you don't understands even the basics. Decision whether or not to punish Elaine on possible Oath violation is in great degree depends on Elaine's perception and understanding of the situation. Say, a person doesn't attack her but she honestly believes that he is attacking her and tries to use lethal force - then she can kill him without Oath punishment. The opposite is true too. If a person attempted to kill her, she was unaware of that but still killed him for no reason - then she will be punished. Results of Oath punishment by greater margin depend on her own perception rather than the truth of the matter. In Remus, there are slaves. Can she murder slavers indiscriminately? The protection of patients from injustice clause kinda permits it but she can do so unpunished only if she truly believes it to be the right action. Say, if the slave is reasonably treated and his slavery is justified - then she cannot. If the slave is tortured awfully and cruelly then it might be a cause for lethal action. Same here with Shimagu. As long as she believed that slaughtering Shimagu is unjustified murder - she couldn't do so, and would be punished by Oath for breaching it. Since this chapter, she clearly realized that their slaughter is justified and thus performed it - hence no punishment. Is it so hard to understand that Oath acts in great deal on her own perception of the events?

Squirtle

Honestly make the most sense if you would eventually be able to just conjure the metals (even if they will degrade like other material). Like lvl 700 kill is conjure mithril, would be better then, probably.

Log Daniels

The oaths are through the system so that’s why night was able to double dip on the curse because it wasn’t registered to the system. But the system based benefits on how much a skill restricts the user, and you have to mean it like night says, so it has to really do something not half ass it like something that wouldn’t effect someone.