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Sephiroth Kills Dumbledore: A Video About Spoiler Culture (The Jimquisition) (Patreon)

Published:
2020-04-13 13:57:28
Imported:
2020-05

Content

Spoilers are a touchy subject. They have been for decades, and the explosion of mainstream "nerd" culture has only made it touchier. People don't want movies, books, shows, or games ruined for them by learning big shocks, twists, and plot points ahead of time. 

This is fair, and when something like Final Fantasy VII Remake happens, it opens the question - is the statute of limitations on spoilers altered when something's remade? Even for something as famous as Final Fantasy VII?

On top of that, we must look at spoiler culture as a whole, our obsession with the notion of spoilers, and who our fear of them really benefits (spoiler, it's corporations).

Files

Sephiroth Kills Dumbledore: A Video About Spoiler Culture (The Jimquisition)

http://www.patreon.com/jimquisition http://www.thejimquisition.com https://www.thejimporium.com Spoilers are a touchy subject. They have been for decades, and the explosion of mainstream "nerd" culture has only made it touchier. People don't want movies, books, shows, or games ruined for them by learning big shocks, twists, and plot points ahead of time. This is fair, and when something like Final Fantasy VII Remake happens, it opens the question - is the statute of limitations on spoilers altered when something's remade? Even for something as famous as Final Fantasy VII? On top of that, we must look at spoiler culture as a whole, our obsession with the notion of spoilers, and who our fear of them really benefits (spoiler, it's corporations). #FinalFantasyVIIRemake #FFVIIRemake #FFVII #FinalFantasyVII #FinalFantasy #SquareEnix #StarWars #Spoilers #Marvel #Disney #Nerd #Fandom #Luigi #BillieEilish #Controversy #PS4 #XboxOne #PC #Games #Gaming #Videogames #Gamers #JimSterling #VideoColumn #Jimquisition __ Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimsterling Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jimsterling0 Jim’s Big Ego (No Relation): http://bigego.com/ Bandcamp of the Sax Dragon - https://carlcatron.bandcamp.com Nathan Hanover - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-8L7n7l11PJM6FFcI6Ju8A

Comments

Anonymous

Haha. Nice. (Lawyers will be in touch)

Anonymous

The FF7 remake looks so weird, so there is another bike guy now? It already looks like a different game.

Kevin Bartelen

I've got a friend who treats EVERYTHING about the work as a spoiler because anything I say might make him start to form an opinion about it before he gets to experience it himself, and forming an opinion ahead of time, even slightly, might change his experience. For him even telling him I do or do not like it counts as a spoiler and he gets mad.

Jason Youngberg

About what you said in the beginning about how the young singer didn't know about the old singer, something like that was brought up in a podcast I listen to. He was on a panel at a sci-fi convention and someone told him that since he hasn't read Heinlein then his opinion doesn't matter. There's so much out there of nearly every genre of movies, books, music than even trying to keep up on the "classics" is a chore. Video games have the "advantage" (big quotation marks) of having a barrier to entry, ie the cost and finding older games. If you wanted to play FF7 as it was originally, you can't. (Or if you can it would be very hard to find a PS1/2 and discs.) But if I wanted to read a popular book from 40 years ago the A-shop probably has it or the local library where I can find it for free.

LonMcGregor

Just a data point: I consider myself a "gamer™" but I haven't ever played FF7 before, and I did not recognise any of the "famous" spoilers mentioned. I was thinking of playing FF7, and I don't know if any of those mentioned spoilers actually apply to the remake, but knowing them now I kind of wish I had just skipped to the latter part of the video. But that's on me, you gave fair warning. I'll stop rambling now.

Egor A. Palchyk

I mean... Until someone goes out of their way to freak out about something being a "SPOILER!!!!!" and explains thoroughly all the context around a fact and why it's considered a "spoiler", if knowing a few basic facts about a film, game, or novel is so disastrous that it's going to ruin the entire experience with the narrative...let's face it. It wasn't that good of a narrative to begin with.

Ben L.

The second half of your video demonstrated how corporations benefit from spoiler culture, but it wasn't clear whether or not you were saying that it was something they were exploiting. The only example in the video of a corporation potentially contributing to that culture is Netflix releasing entire seasons at once so people will binge watch them. Compare to your video on video game hype culture, where Triple A companies and mainstream video game media do everything they can to push people's excitement to extreme levels and then wash their hands of the ensuing terrible behavior from overzealous fans. Spoiler culture seems like something that exists on its own without interference from corporations. They benefit from it, but I don't see how they are to blame for it. I'm not entirely sure whether or not you even were blaming them for it; the purpose of the second half of the video was a little muddled. I hope this doesn't seem nitpicky or argumentative, I'm just trying to provide constructive feedback.

Jenna Twerk - NSFW

When people spoil just to be dicks it's just so annoying

Anonymous

My thoughts to what you were saying, in no order. 1) Spoiling things on purpose is a trolling method. It's a way to cause people emotional harm to get cheap thrills. This is precisely why that viral video of "SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE!" *drive off laughing* existed. The unarguable fact of this makes it VERY annoying when people say that "actually, one study found that people who were spoiled enjoyed stories more!" (the methodology of that study was stupid bullshit and everyone who believed it was taken for a ride). Or when people try to argue that "it doesn't even matter!" that's also trolling. People are doing it to be dicks, don't provide cover or defenses for them. They are being mean on purpose! They know it's a mean spirited thing to do... that is why they are doing it. 2) Yes, spoiler-averse culture is a boon to corporations. But that's a natural and unavoidable consequence of people caring about the stories. It is too bad that our culture's most beloved stories are used as weapons by large corporations, but trying to make people stop loving the stories is not the way to fight this. Shitting on the part people enjoy will not defeat the corporations. The rule of law (redefining copyright) and anti-monopoly laws having teeth once again will start to do that. 3) Speaking of businesses, spoilers are also business for websites and such, and honestly, they are not much better than the trolls. Kotaku has an article out on Friday saying "let's discuss the ending of Final Fantasy 7 Remake." Um... how can I possibly "discuss" it? Amazon didn't ship the game to me until Saturday! It's apparently 40 hours long or so! There's 24 hours in a day!!! I think spoiler space discussions are great, but the timing and placement of that (and similar) articles is CLEARLY some money hungry crap. So what you've done there Kotaku, is weaponize every troll with the most potent and damaging spoilers before the vast majority of consumers have even gotten access to the game. It's like they're giving out molotov cocktails during a street festival. "Well, it's not really our fault if they CHOOSE to throw these pre-prepared weapons we gave them for free, is it? That would be their choice." The legitimate customers who would be interested in having that discussion in good faith are not PREPARED to have it on launch day, screw anyone who posts something like that the day of. Even worse, certain websites have put spoilers in the title of the article that appears on the front page of their article. That gets more clicks, after all! I think your discussion of corporate greed on this topic was lacking by suggesting that it's something that is for the owners of the brand and no one else. 4) Having said all that... yeah, some people are inconsiderate in how they try to regulate spoilers through other people. If you click into the review, you might get SOME spoilers (like the premise of the game and how the major mechanics work). If you want zero spoilers, read the score number only. Or don't read any of it. If you look in review comments or a discussion thread post-release, there will ABSOLUTELY be spoilers, it's time for you to leave if you don't want them. If you go into the explicitly labeled spoiler space and cry about spoilers... God help you. You must be the type of person who warning labels are designed for "Don't eat poison, don't drink bleach, etc." It must be very annoying to have your job and have to deal with people like this. Finally, 5) Despite the annoyance of dealing with people like that, I have very little sympathy for critics because of point 3. Many of the people in this profession get early access to popular stories that people have been DYING to get to see, then use their access to become more popular by spraying out spoilers as fast as possible like a fire hose. They literally have NO CONCEPT of the general audience because to them, they saw that story 2 weeks ago or whatever and it's old hat now. Screw people who have no empathy. Oh wah wah, you had to be careful and write an explicit spoiler warning before you wrote your article. You had to choose a title that wouldn't ruin the entire game if you read it as a headline. MUST BE SO HARD.

Benedict Holland

I never played the original. I might be a unicorn but that said, WTF is up with tit armor, rib removal, and boobs the size of watermelons? Like, we get it. Women have boobs, tits, tata's, breastases, and they are on chests. Women do not have a 16 inch middle. But if you get hit in the chest with boob armor on, you are going to crack your breastplate, your ribs will puncture your lungs, and you will die. Also, porn exists. It isnt that hard to make normal looking people not make out in their bedrooms after flirting for hours.

Kraken

You shouldn't just let people off the hook for not knowing the important points in their chosen fields because "the world is moving on without you, grandpa, get over it." Yes, it's true that no one has time to learn everything, and one person's minutiae is another person's cornerstone. And yes, it's different if you're talking about a fan of a medium versus someone who builds within it. But knowing your history is key to being able to build upon it and not repeat it. If you're in popular music, you damn well should know about the Beatles- not just because they were a great band, but because they were an innovative one, and some of the things they did still teach important things about pushing the borders of popular music. You probably wouldn't accept a video game that thought, in ignorance, that an eight-directional joystick and one button was the limitation of control. You wouldn't accept a monster movie that tried to generate pathos and horror around sock puppets turning over Hot Wheels cars. Fans will do what fans will do, but creators should at least make an effort to do their homework- and then if they want to make a retro one-button controller game, or a sock-puppet monster movie, do so while recognizing the limitations they're working within and what has come before. Being young is a crap excuse for accidentally creating the fifth-best cover of "Eleanor Rigby".

Hansbert Emmer

Oh god, spoiler panic is DRM. If you wait for rips/cracks, you're not part of the discussion! Quick! QUICK! CONSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUME

Lea Chinelo

Revealing spoilers on purpose to someone who explicitly said the didn't want to hear them is shitty. Talking about newly released media on the internet in great detail is fine. If I'm worried about being spoiled about something, I'll keep away from spaces where I think it'll be discussed. But I'd be lying if I didn't mention that I tend to not care enough about not being spoiled to do that. At this point I have been spoiled on most of the mainstream media I've engaged with. I'm fairly young (22 years old) and live in a country where movies and video games are often released much later than in their countries of origin and with region locking being a thing I have to wait to see things I'm interested in. All I knew about FF7 before watching this video was that the brown haired girl (or woman?) dies at some point because I saw it in a youtube poop 10 years ago. Knowing the other plot points has only made me more interested in the game, as it sounds like things actually happen in it. Too bad I don't have a PS4. When it comes to knowing "the classics" I think it's important to be aware of how a medium you work in or are trying to be an expert in came to be and evolved, as well as understanding human culture as a whole. But outside of that, as long as their existence is catalogued sonewhere, I don't think people need to care all that much -- especially not about the same 10 artists that get brought up every time this conversation happens. I'm more interested in the person who created the first instrument or the first documented piece of music than hearing about the Beatles for the 700th time. At this point I regularly do surface level research on classics for the sole purpose of quickly navigating out of potential conversations with gatekeepers. Sometimes I will actually find something I like (Van Halen III is hilariously bad, Citizen Cane is engaging, Theodor Fontane is one of my favorite authors now etc.) but there's so much new media to discover that people who don't do this aren't actually missing out on much. I went a bit off track there. What I really want to say is that I find spoiler panic annoying. If a piece of media looses all its appeal once you know a few plot points, then is was probably not worth your time anyways. And don't even get me started on "spoiling" video game mechnics! People on the Animal Crossing forums I ferequent have been going on and on about being "spoiled" by time traveling players posting pictures of their island designs. Just don't look at the forums if it bothers you so much, it's so easy to avoid! Before I spend money on something, I want to know as much as possible about it. I want to know what it's about, how it works, what I should expect. I only started reading ASOIAF after having read through all TV tropes pages because the plot grabbed my interest and I wanted to experience the original. Spoiler panic makes it difficult for me to find accurate descriptions of things I want to buy so that I now base many of my purchsing desicions on the contents of Wikipedia summaries, not reviews.

Anonymous

I find it hard to understand why we cannot have a cookie and eat it too in this case. I imagine most platforms for reviews or thought exchange have a way of marking content containing spoilers and it feels like it isn't that hard of an ask for people sharing their opinions to make use of them. What classifies as a spoiler will be different depending on the person so it might be hard to get 100% right, but even keeping to the classification that was mentioned in the video seems good enough for most cases. When it comes to the feeling of critics being muzzled by "spoiler culture" I would say that for me at least this is a problem that is easily solved by building of trust. An easy example is that I trust the opinion of Mr. Jim Sterling when he gives his general opinion about content as being good or bad. Whether I want to delve deeper into the critique will usually depend on whether I aim to consume it myself or not. If I either decide that I won't have time for it or I already consumed the content then I will want to watch further to see how well my feelings about the content resonate with the critique presented in the video. This builds my understanding of Mr. Sterlings taste and as such the compatibility of my taste with his and the trust that I can put in his opinion. I don't think that any critic should feel they cannot touch on a topic. The only thing I would probably ask is that it isn't the headline so as to allow people to avoid it if they so choose. I find a lot of content creators that I at times listen to out of touch with anyone who has dependants and cannot spend 90% of their time outside of work consuming content. When I hear snide remarks about something not being a spoiler because it is X years old I always feel that they are speaking from a position of privilege and are writing off people who cannot afford the time or money to consume everything they did. In addition it seems like they also forget that human reproduction didn't stop when they popped out and that people younger than them might not have consumed the content purely because it was before their time. A simple example of this was when over a year ago in a shop with various DVDs/Blue-rays I overheard an argument between teens about "Star Wars" and about how they heard it was good and were planning to buy it as a Christmas present for a friend. Just because you grew up in an environment culturally soaked in something doesn't mean that others did. TLDR: It feels like all we need to do here is be mindful of others. Don't feel muzzled or afraid to talk about how you feel. If sharing your opinion try to gauge who you are sharing it with and annotate it appropriately for your audience. That way anyone wanting your general opinion has access to it while anyone reading further has had fair warning and should only really be angry with themselves. PS: I imagine I am not representative of most of content consumers. I'm a working dad with two children and as such I don't have anywhere near as much time as I would probably like to play games, watch movies/series without even going into the subject of social media.

Trevor Bond

I'm spoilerproof. Spoil something all you like, it won't affect my enjoyment of it.

Harry Moore

I am playing this while my ten year old son watches. I am really enjoying the shock and shared moments I have with my kid as he hits all those moments I did when i was a young one. I dread that someone will spoil it because I really love seeing him experiencing the things I felt, and it is something I feel is special that we have bonded over.