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Succession 2x7 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-07-07 10:18:30
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Shahria Chowdhury

It works both ways, Shiv also underestimates everyone else... Logan, Rhea? Lots of empty promises that play to her ego.

Jack S

I see Logan forcing Kendal to face the consequences of his actions as the correct move for a Father. Ken is not the victim here and on some level had to face the music.

Natasha

Love this show. I always think Logan was initially genuine in his offer to Shiv but he's temperamental and, like you said, doesn't want to give it away. The closer someone gets to the job the more he pushes them away. I think Rhea saw Pierce was failing/looking to sell and was looking to see what the next big job in the sector - and does kind of like Logan, kinda. But yeah, Jeremy Strong's performance as Kendall this season is hauntingly good - that scene where Logan punishes him for standing up to him and bulling him into going to the kids house is so intense even Jeremy Strong the actor finds it hard to talk about. And their awful mum ugh. All he wanted to do was hang out with Naomi, anyway next few eps are really really good. This is probably my favourite season but they're all great, which is crazy.

Patrick Anthony
>>112392885

I don't think so....Logan is doing this once again for his own selfish, bastard reasons without regard to how it might affect Kendall in the long run. As a father Logan has no humility at all, so his "fatherly" actions are always for nothing more than himself, to make himself feel affirmed in his love for his kids--that he doesn't know how to express. It's never really about them and their growth, it's all about his. Not super fatherly if you ask me and nothing to look up to in these circumstances. Also there was no "music" for Kendall to face...he just sat in the other room reliving his trauma. That moment was to put Ken in his place, most likely for fraternizing with "the enemy" aka Naomi and questioning him about Rhea. This was no keen fatherly moment lol. Just more convoluted abuse from Logan Roy.

Jack S
>>112392885

Its so strange to me the way people do not empathize with Logan at all. People who watch the show dont try to put themselves in his shoes, they just make up their minds that Logan is evil and beyond redemption, nevermind the fact there would be no story and no family without him. Maybe he is vulgar, abusive, manipulative, ect. but you have to be that way to get to where Logan is at and at the very least he is a man worth admiring for what he has built, his company and his family. Obviously, the archetype for this character and family are the Murdocks but there are other, far worse titans of industry than Rupert Murdock or Logan Roy. Rockefeller, Rothchild, Du Point, Astor, all come to mind. Maybe it's just me, but the way Logan's character is portrayed makes me see him as the best of his peers. The Pierces may appear on the outside to be more moral than Logan and the Roys but there are many moments from these past few episodes where the Pierces virtue signaling is not backed up by their actions. They talk nice, but are playing the same game as Logan. Logan however, doesn't hide who he is, he is honest about his motivations.

Patrick Anthony
>>112392885

It's no illusion to me that the Pierces are the opposite side of the same coin in regard to the Roys. It is indeed plainly obvious in Episode 5--just more fluff and pretension. They're just easier to swallow than the bitter pill that is the Roys. But honestly, I couldn't care less about Logan the capitalist, I'm talking about his regard for his family and why he screws himself out of the enduring legacy he thinks he has affirmed by denying his children the access and growth they would really need to even take over for him. I'm sorry but I can empathize only so much with a man like him--as a character I see why he is the way he is, but that's no excuse for his reprehensible actions, especially when he is in the immensely privileged position to do and be better. The nature of Logan's legacy--what he built--is what entraps him and his family in this abusive cycle in which power and leverage is everything and Logan's way of expressing any love for his children comes from what they can accomplish for him and his legacy, which he completely keeps them out of by having them butt heads with each other to win daddy's love. The title of the show is Succession and he is so stubborn and consolidating of his own power and influence (which as you say he has to be to sustain what he's built) but see what it ends up costing him in the long run and he has no one to blame but himself. It's not surprising that many sympathize and look up to Logan--people also tend to look up to real-life billionaires who exploit millions to amass their wealth as well because they have a certain extreme audacity that makes them a thrilling spectacle to behold, one that seems to embolden or at least inspire that same glint of audacity in us that pokes at the dream that we too could be THAT successful one day if we mirror this "great" man's philosophies and behavior. But that's just it, it's a dream, a fantasy of which this entire country is predicated on--the dream to be one of the giants, one of the titans! Logan having accomplished that dream which is now not-so-slowly curdling into a nightmare, is at his old age so reluctant and embittered by the idea that he will one day soon have to give it up, least of all to his privileged, ridiculous children who he feels--who he knows aren't capable. But they are that way because of him (and Caroline). So in a way, he's constantly fighting with himself and cursing his children as he does so--undercutting himself and his legacy in the long run. Also, the unfortunate reality is that Logan is never beyond redemption so to speak, at least where it concerns his family--his kids mainly, because they so desperately seek his approval but he always makes the selfish choice of his own power and influence over the evolution of his family and that is truly his enduring legacy (especially by the end of the series).

Jack S
>>112392885

All of that is fair and well said. He's a very complex character. At times I just see him as a sad old man. You are correct that his children are the way they are because of them. Personally, I think the ending to season 2 is exactly what Logan wanted. I dont want to spoil anything but his smile says alot. If I were to put myself in Logans shoes that is how I would want it to be, but for all the reasons you listed.... spoiler spoiler spoiler. Yeah, its just a great show in every aspect. Its Shakespearian and I can actually understand it.

fatdabbyeet

I think Logan is just always "on" in terms of business and rhetoric's and that it explains his behavior with his children. He always keeps them close, but never comfortable. He offered the job to Shiv not because he is gonna give it to her, but to get her closer to the company and basically end her political career. He wants every employee, like Gerri, Frank and Karl, on a leach, and he treats his children the exact same way.

fatdabbyeet
>>112393657

This is my least favorite season but its still so good. Its only because the other threes are also just really good.

Chloe Grover

Kendall and water is a reoccurring motif in this show...sometimes it seems like in a way, he never got out of that river they drove into.

Patrick Anthony

What's crazy is that Shiv is most like Logan out of all of the kids, which is probably why she frustrates him so much. She has his guts and smarts, but as Maple mentioned before, she falters so regularly because she has no perspective. It's so unfortunate to watch, but the way the drama unfolds is so spectacular to behold, especially for a series in which most of the plot revolves around these awful rich people just sitting or standing around in a bunch of sleek and lavish rooms strategizing and talking shit. The way the writers bring out the dramatic momentum from these scenarios is quite impressive and relies on how compelling the characters and their dynamics are. Can't wait for the last two episode reactions of this season. Still two of my favorite episodes of the show or any show altogether!!!

JZ
>>112393657

I agree that the initial offer to Shiv for somewhat genuine, but I think his later reluctance isn't *just* about him not wanting to give away the role or his temperament, but about Shiv's behavior after the offer as well. The succession plan was solid - it wasnt just his sexism, he was right that she has no experience in the company and she needed to learn. But her ego and at times childish reflexes didn't allow her to see that. She refused to shadow Frank and learning the ropes, she wanted/felt entitled to make the big decisions *now*. And I think her ego is also what ultimately clouded her judgement in regards to Rhea and thats why she got played *so* easily.

Natasha
>>112392885

I think that both things can be true that Kendall can be complicit in a terrible crime and be a victim in a number of ways. I also don't think Logan is a man worthy of admiration or even begrudging respect - a nuanced character and a great performance but he's the embodiment of late stage capitalism and what he has achieved has been at the expense of others. We can feel flickers of his humanity sure but again, this comment section is a bit spoilery so I'll be very careful, but the whole arc of this story is the hollowness of this pursuit of wealth. The writers have talked about it and I think Jeremy Strong described it well (paraphrasing) when he said this is a show about how family trauma becomes societal trauma. I do agree though that redemption is often so close, these aren't figures without humanity. I just find their disdain for Logan refreshing after watching a number of guys react and be hyping him up always, or calling the kids weak for not standing up to their abusive parent idk. Love this show, it's got me writing essays out here in my work day haha

Natasha
>>112393657

this is my favourite season, that's so interesting. They're all good though - for me it's 2, 3, 1, 4 in order but know that isn't universal. Oh yeah she isn't a good fit at this stage honestly for CEO, she overestimates herself, isn't willing to do the work, has literally no business experience. I just wonder if she didn't fumble that would he have found a reason anyway, like Kendall in season 1 who by all rights maybe wasn't doing amazing but was the kid with an MBA that went to Harvard for business and had seemingly worked in the company for a decade. The sexism thing is so interesting to me in this story, I don't think it really played into her being ousted but potentially her not being considered in the first place, that Shiv can at times be dreadful AND be confronted with misogyny. God I love this show