83 Weeks - Fall Brawl 1997 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Welcome back to 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff!

It’s been two weeks since we discussed the infamous Nitros with Arn Anderson giving his spot to Curt Hennig and the nWo parody. There was one more episode of Nitro before Fall Brawl 97 actually took place and a whole lot of wrestling news as well so let’s get into it!

ECW goes on TV and announces that Tod Gordon is a mole for WCW and has been fired from ECW. The former owner of ECW supposedly was working with WCW to let them know ECW wrestler contract situations. From the Observer:

“It was no secret to anyone at the ECW shows this weekend that Gordon was out, allegedly for failing in an attempt to get numerous ECW wrestlers to join him in jumping to WCW to do a new version of the NWO angle using the ECW wrestlers as the outsiders. Such a scenario may very well have been discussed. There is little doubt that two things did occur. One, that Gordon and WCW booker Terry Taylor had a conversation or more regarding the availability of ECW talent as WCW is looking to expand its talent roster in 1998 because of its more ambitious schedule and that Taylor contacted at least one (Shane Douglas) if not more ECW wrestlers after the conversation with Gordon.”

So let’s stop right there…did you ever discuss an ECW invasion with Terry Taylor?

There’s no doubt in my mind that with Thunder coming to air in 1998 you were having conversations about this time to expand the roster…but do you think this was a thing before the news broke regarding Tod?

Have you ever talked with Tod Gordon?

“Douglas claimed to have been offered $300,000 per year to sign (which begs the logical question that if that was true, what kept him from signing although Douglas has in part blamed his failed WWF stint on heat from Scott Hall and Kevin Nash). Supposedly Scott Levy (Raven) contacted Tommy Dreamer who was given an indication he could get a $200,000 per year contract should he want it, although there have been denials of that story as well with people close to Levy claiming that Heyman and Kevin Sullivan were spreading the story about Levy contacting ECW wrestlers. The other is that a few ECW wrestlers over the past two weeks told Heyman that Gordon approached them regarding a similar plan and storyline.”

Do you think Shane Douglas or Tommy Dreamer were ever offered deals or told this? Did anything like this come across your desk?

Here’s where it gets tough to believe:

“It is difficult to buy such a scenario as the story is out and may have been discussed actually being able to take place in WCW. What Gordon and Taylor were supposedly putting together begs the question as to whether Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall would allow a group of wrestlers, none with any name value to mainstream fans, do what is basically their own angle within the same promotion at a time when their angle is still, based on TV ratings and house show attendance, in its ascension rather than its decline? And even if it was on the decline, we've seen how they guard their positions and their angle.

A source within WCW claimed that Gordon approached Taylor with the idea of being a manager of two or three ECW wrestlers that he would bring along, but that they nixed the idea because they didn't think Gordon would make a good manager.

In particular, since at least some of the wrestlers Gordon allegedly spoke with allegedly had contracts with ECW which one would think he would have known about. Who is said to be under contract with ECW and what those contracts actually stipulate is always questionable given claims about contracts with Raven, Stevie Richards and Saturn and WCW's ability to use all of them with no problem with the exception of the questionable use of Raven on the Bash at the Beach PPV show because of a PPV non-compete clause in a singular event (as opposed to a long term) contract Raven definitely had signed. Heyman apparently informed the WWF of all this weeks ago with the idea that WCW was involved in contract tampering with his company, which he had already claimed in regard to a lawsuit that he publicized on his own television show and hotline but hasn't been filed at press time. Heyman claimed as well he told Taylor specifically he was tampering with ECW contracted personnel. That charge would be similar to a charge in WWF's lawsuit against WCW that they tampered with Nash and Hall while the two were still under WWF contracts and prior to them giving notice and jumping. In other words, that the two companies could work together in their respective legal claims to try and establish a pattern of behavior by their mutual business enemy.”

This…has to be something that you do not want landing on legal’s desk…but was there any grounds?

I’m going to read these two paragraphs from the Observer and then ask you a point blank question…

“With the return to a largely head-to-head situation on 9/8, the Raw vs. Nitro feud set a new record for margin of victory with Nitro almost doubling the audience of Raw. Nitro earned a 4.27 rating (4.28 first hour, 4.26 second hour) and 6.73 share, its second best rating ever in a head-to-head situation. Raw did a 2.15 (2.10 first hour, 2.20 second hour) rating and 3.39 share. The Nitro replay did a 1.90 (2.80 first hour; 1.78 second hour; 1.27 over-run 30 minutes) and 3.67 share. A large margin of victory was expected given the momentum Nitro has coming off its two largest audiences in history, combined with the historical fact that it takes Raw two or three weeks every year to regain its audience after the U.S. Open pre-emptions. Nevertheless, this large a margin was staggering. In the actual head-to-head period, Nitro beat Raw 4.26 to 2.12 so it actually slightly more than doubled the audience for the first time ever over that long a period of time head-to-head. Even more staggering is that the Nitro replay's first 38 minutes that went head-to-head with Raw's final 38 minutes saw Nitro do a 2.70 to Raw's 2.27.

WCW is coming off its most successful house show week in history. 9/4 in Springfield, IL

drew 4,314 and $68,347, 9/5 in Peoria, IL drew 4,051 and $83,919, 9/6 in Indianapolis at Market Square Arena drew 9,821 and $181,394 (plus $75,000 in merchandise), 9/7 in Chicago at United Center drew 9,905 and $184,099 ($88,000 merchandise), Nitro on 9/8 in Milwaukee drew a sellout 8,596 (7,810 paid) and $190,017 ($53,400 merchandise) and the Saturday Night tapings on 9/9 in Madison, WI drew 3,056 and $52,463.”

Was this around the time you were starting to feel invincible?

Let’s get into the Nitro episode for the go-home…

Nitro 9/8/97:

“TV opened with them beginning to air a tape of the Horseman spoof, but then the Horseman came out and got it shut off and went to the ring for an interview. Hennig, McMichael and Benoit had nothing to say and the segment was a real disappointment until Flair gave a classic interview. They said they wouldn't leave until the NWO came out, but then security came out and they left. That part was weird. Later in the show Nash and Syxx said they had better things to do but had Konnan & Bagwell accept the challenge. Still feel the show begged for Arn Anderson to do an interview announcing he'd be in the Horseman corner on the PPV.”

It’s hard to disagree that Arn needed a retort here. Was that a miss? Did the Horsemen look weak saying they weren’t leaving and then they left?

Tony has a great line at the end asking why security is here now and not last week when the nWo stood in the ring for 8 minutes.

“Rey Misterio Jr. returned and pinned Eddie Guerrero with the springboard huracanrana in 8:55. Misterio Jr. was tentative in spots and unsure of his knee holding up, and because of the nervousness missed some spots. Where Misterio Jr. is the best in the world at is he is the single best at recovering and reacting in mid-air and turning a missed spot into a new move. Good match.”

Was Rey ready to be back in the ring at this point? Who would make that call at this time?

“Diamond Dallas Page did an interview challenging Lex Luger to a match. Luger accepted. Crowd was surprisingly subdued for both and really didn't care to see them wrestle.”

I think it’s fair to say that with all the heat…the fans wanted to see either the nWo kicking WCW’s ass or vice versa. It’s hard to be excited about two babyfaces wanting to wrestle each other at this point in time is it not?

“Hugh Morrus pinned Disco Inferno with a moonsault at 3:14. Alex Wright threw Disco his TV title and Morrus moonsaulted onto Disco with the belt on his stomach. Disco sold it as if he was hurt worse and argued with Wright after.”

We’re just gonna bury Disco under a fat guy this week aren’t we…

Nash & Konnan come out for their promo still dressed as the Horsemen from last week. That had to be a gusty call to make right Eric?

“Jericho kept the cruiser title beating Brad Armstrong via DQ in 2:36 when Guerrero interfered. Match wasn't clicking before the run-in.”

One of the rare instances where Brad Armstrong and especially Chris Jericho didn’t click. Not enough time to really do anything was there?

“Hogan challenged Sting again but Sting wasn't there. They are doing an angle where there is a mole in WCW letting NWO know when Sting isn't there so Hogan can make the challenges. A mannequin dressed as Sting fell from the ceiling and crashed on the floor, and Hogan acted concerned as if it was a mistake before revealing it was a mannequin and slapping and legdropping the mannequin while Bischoff with a ref shirt counted the pin.”

This is good shit Eric but man hindsight knowing what we know now I’m shocked the Network still let’s this air after Owen…

“Steiners no contest Meng & Barbarian in 5:31 when Harlem Heat, Jacquelyn, Mortis and Wrath all ran-in. Pretty bad.”

Tony brings up another great point in this match about how guys in WCW are still fighting each other when the nWo just always comes out and kicks their asses and if they got their shit together they could fight back. I mean…yeah…but this match was pretty bad.

“Scott Hall beat Super Calo in 2:31 with the Outsiders edge. Just a squash. After the match, Ray Traylor attacked Hall and gave he and Vincent the Bubba slam. Hogan then distracted Traylor and Hall jumped him and gave him an edge, and they spray painted Ray Who? on his back.”

Like where does this push for Ray Traylor come from?

“Dean Malenko beat Psicosis with the cloverleaf in 7:10. Work was very good but outside incidents distracted the crowd from the match. First, a fan hit the ring and was snatched by UFC bantamweight champion Mark Curtis, who slapped a front facelock on him and had him tapping when security nabbed him. Backstage the fan explained that it was his wife's birthday and he just wanted to get on national television. Later there were a couple of other fights in the crowd so fans were looking away from the ring.”

Eric when this takes place and what a moment this is to see Mark Curtis just handle this fucking dude…what’s it like backstage?

“Roddy Piper came out for an interview announced as new commissioner due to J.J. Dillon being injured by Hogan. He made his typical dated references to John Belushi in "Animal House" (wasn't that like 20 years ago?), The Brady Bunch (well, they did have two recent movies but that was 25 years ago), mentioned he used to be WWF commissioner (fans booed the name WWF loudly which caused Piper to laugh because he wasn't expecting that reaction). Aside from that, his interview was much better than most have been of late. He announced he was putting himself against Hogan in a cage match at Halloween Havoc, that he would sign Hogan to wrestle Sting for the title before the year 1997 (Gene Okerlund had to correct him and say before the end of 1997), and that he was putting the Horseman into War Games and taking Luger & Page out.”

Roddy being Roddy for this promo…not surprised he mentioned the WWF…and it’s pretty funny he’s already building to Halloween Havoc. Why Roddy in this role though?

And at least now we know what the main event of the show is going to be 6-days from now at least on the WCW side of things…

“Flair & Hennig beat Konnan & Bagwell in 9:25 when Hennig pinned Konnan with the fisherman suplex. Pretty good in spots, not so good in others so average all around.”

This wasn’t great and we talked a couple weeks ago that this isn’t the Curt Hennig of old…were there any thoughts or worries that he wouldn’t be able to transition into a heel?

“Finally Luger went to a no contest with Page in a bad anti-climactic 4:41 ending when the NWO attacked both guys. Giant came in for the save, and the show ended with Luger and Page shaking hands. There were loud boring chants before the run-in. Luger is actually getting worse as even the few things he does don't look good.”

I mean Eric…this is a main event because it just feels like we needed to stick two top guys in the last segment…I know the rating is great and all but it all just feels like wasted creative did it not? Shouldn’t the nWo be up on the ramp laughing at these WCW geeks fighting against each other and not being able to get their shit together? Is it things like this that made WCW look terrible?

Well here we are for the show Eric and the results…even with the TV rating success…aren’t great.

Fall Brawl 97 drew 195,000 buys, down from 240,000 last month for Road Wild and down from 230,000 for Fall Brawl 96.

WWF drew 126,000 buys for Ground Zero, the week before Fall Brawl

You still beat the WWF…but I mean you lost 45,000 buys from Road Wild and 35,000 from last year with the Sting walk out turn…do you think not having an organized main event hurt?

The show is still well received critically as it got a 68% thumbs up from Wrestling Observer readers..

“WCW's PPV show of the week, Fall Brawl on 9/14 from the Lawrence Joel Coliseum in Winston-Salem, NC, was the typical WCW offering. A strong undercard with the match quality in the so-so range after the mid-point. The general reports were favorable, but not enthusiastically so. In this case, the main event that the show was built around, War Games, was among the worst War Games ever as a match, but the ending and post-match were among the most dramatic.

The show drew a sellout 11,939 (11,024 paid) with a $213,330 gate, slightly more than last year's War Games in the same building but a much higher gross with the increase in ticket prices. In all the WCW print advertising in the market, they listed Hulk Hogan as appearing on the show which is blatant false advertising because it was known months in advance that he was skipping this show.”

Come on Eric…let me hear it…

“The general belief as to why the teams in War Games weren't announced until the day before the show is only partly the typical lack of organization, but also because the way the Nitro hype was going, to make people think that perhaps Hogan and Sting would be on opposite sides until the announcement of the complete line-up of Team WCW six days before the show. Because of an angle during the show that involved Larry Zbyszko, he was brought in to do color instead of Dusty Rhodes, which turned out to be a major plus. The booking was top-notch in that the matches that needed controversial finishes for storyline reasons had them, and the waters weren't muddied underneath to where it seemed like screw-job city because everything underneath was a clean finish.”

Is that what the deal was with the main event?

“1. Eddie Guerrero captured the WCW cruiserweight title from Chris Jericho in 17:19. Great opener. Early on there was a sequence where Guerrero tried a La Magistral but Jericho reversed it for a near fall. When Guerrero used the Gori special (which Jericho later reversed), Tony Schiavone talked about having never seen the move before. Geez, the last time I recall the guy using that move was six days earlier on Nitro and he's used it dozens of times since coming to WCW. Jericho also used a stun gun followed by a lionsault for a near fall. Guerrero used a dragon sleeper off a la tapatia. As the match built, the two traded near falls back and forth. Jericho used a double bomb, then put Guerrero on the top for a superplex. Guerrero reversed the move on the way down and crashed on Jericho, then scored a clean pin with a frog splash. ***¾”

It feels like this is the first time Jericho has a great match in WCW and not surprisingly it’s with Eddie Guerrero. This is a forgotten match on this show with the angle to end it and also because Eddie & Rey had that fantastic match at Halloween Havoc but this is the birth of heel Eddie into being a bigger star is it not?

“2. Rick & Scott Steiner beat Harlem Heat in 11:44 when Rick pinned Stevie Ray. The finish was a combination of Rick doing a clothesline and Scott doing a released german suplex on Ray, although the clothesline missed by a lot. Back-and-forth hard-hitting match with good heat. **¼”

This really is the calling card of WCW shows back then. Very good cruiserweight match, a bunch of big dudes in a tag team match beating the shit out of each other…who’s laying out the match order back then? Sullivan or Taylor?

“3. Alex Wright retained the WCW TV title pinning Ultimo Dragon in 18:43. The first half of the match was slow with Wright holding two different versions of the sleeper seemingly forever which Dragon really never, nor considering how long he was in the holds, could sell. The second half of the match was really good picking up with all kinds of hot maneuvers. Dragon did his Asai moonsault. He did one sloppy Frankensteiner spot. Wright did a dive over the top to the floor. To prove once again that nothing that goes on in the ring registers with the announcers, after Wright did that move, Schiavone said, "Have we ever seen Alex Wright do that?" when in fact he's done it dozens of times in WCW. Mike Tenay did explain because it was on PPV it had an extended time limit for the TV title from the regular 10:00 or 15:00 on a television show, although never actually said how long. Dragon used a spinning huracanrana off the ropes and a dragon sleeper, but Wright made the ropes. He tried the dragon sleeper again, but Wright reversed the move and wound up with the german suplex. ***½”

Is it difficult to separate the TV and Cruiserweight divisions when they’re pretty much a mix of all the same guys having matches for different titles?

“At this point they did the angle where the NWO guys attack Curt Hennig to "injure" him so he can't wrestle later in the show.”

I mean this makes sense…

“4. Jeff Jarrett beat Dean Malenko in 14:53 to earn a U.S. title shot on 10/26 in Las Vegas. Jarrett told Debra McMichael to go to the back before the match started. Another good match. Malenko got the cloverleaf on but Jarrett made the ropes. Debra came out at that point. After all kinds of near falls and reverses, Malenko was distracted by Debra and Jarrett clipped him and put on a figure four for the submission. ***¼”

You had to feel like you were close to a deal with Jarrett here to put him over because he’s gone in less than a month or so.

“5. Wrath & Mortis beat Meng & Barbarian in 12:22. Crowd pretty much died for this match. Lone highlight was Mortis getting on Wrath's shoulders and superplexing Barbarian off the top rope. Finish saw Meng get the Tongan death grip on both James Vandenburg and Mortis, but from behind, Wrath hit the death penalty (uranage) for the pin. *¼”

Would this had been more successful being switched with the Steiners match or just being on earlier in general? Because this is bad.

“6. Giant pinned Scott Norton in 5:27 after a choke slam. Norton had control most of the match using his power to throw Giant around. Giant made a comeback using a nip up, a dropkick and finished with the choke slam. Not bad for what it was. *¼”

This is really the perfect Giant match in the evolution of him as a worker. But it’s a lot of bumping for a guy called the Giant is it not?

“7. Lex Luger & Diamond Dallas Page beat Scott Hall & Randy Savage in 10:19 in a no DQ match. Early in the match, Luger pressed Savage over his head and threw him over the top rope onto Hall. They finally started getting some heat on Page including throwing him from one ring to the other back-and-forth. Hall stomped Luger between the two rings where he stayed as Page got beaten on. Hall decked ref Mark Curtis, who couldn't get his killer front facelock on in time. Mickey Jay came out, and Hall stomped on his head. This brought Zbyszko out from the broadcast booth. Of course Zbyszko and Hall had great heat as they yelled at each other. Zbyszko ended up shoving Hall, who fell over Luger and then Zbyszko counted the pin. **”

Legalities Eric! Zybysko isn’t a referee! But anyway this type of match had it been announced…do you think it would’ve helped the buyrate?

“8. Team NWO of Marcus Bagwell & Kevin Nash & Syxx & Konnan beat Team Horsemen of Ric Flair & Chris Benoit & Steve McMichael in 19:37. This really wasn't much of a match except for a strong performance by Benoit and some great bumps early by Syxx. It started with Benoit vs. Bagwell, who really didn't do a lot in the first big show main event of his career. Konnan was in next, followed by McMichael. By this point the match was pretty good. Syxx came in and began saving the match with some great bumps. At this point Hennig came out with his arm in a sling to the Horsemen corner. Flair came in to the expected big pop, followed by Nash, who destroyed everyone. The crowd chanted for Sting. Hennig's dramatic against all odds entrance got no crowd pop at all, and he immediately took off the sling and gave the NWO members handcuffs to put on Benoit and McMichael. They all destroyed Flair. Every time they asked Benoit or McMichael to quit they'd say no.

Finally they put Flair's head to where they were going to destroy it with the cage and

McMichael said that was enough. Hennig still slammed the door on Flair's head. This was all an angle to cover for Flair having some cosmetic surgery (either a face lift or an eye lift) and taking about two months off. The fact this had been kept from everyone and how the timing, the card and everything else worked out in the end should show that as far as heat from the parody, while there was some legitimate heat and certainly from the NWO side there is a ton of heat on Flair right now, it sure worked out well for the storyline in the end, didn't it?

**½”

Meltzer is implying that if we all knew Flair was going to be going away you shouldn’t care about the parody and he’s probably right. Why do you think that was kept from everyone?

What did you think of the match, the angle, the turn, the finish?

Any idea why Arn wasn’t there?

It is one of the grossest finishes…how do you gimmick something like that Eric?

What say you, thumbs up, thumbs in the middle or thumbs down?

It has long been said…this match killed Winston-Salem for WCW. Do you believe that to be the case?