Grilling JR - Backlash 2002 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Man do we have a loaded up show today for you! It’s Backlash 2002 and we’re coming right out of WrestleMania X8. The iconic night in Toronto which if you haven’t already make sure you sign up for AdFreeShows.com! Myself, Jim and Mike Choida did a watch-along of that epic Hogan - Rock match so make sure you go out of your way to check it out if you haven’t.

Jim a lot of people always talk about there being a lull after WrestleMania. How hard it is to follow up on the SuperBowl of Wrestling per say. Do you think it’s hard or do you think it’s just an excuse?

Raw the night after Mania is in Montreal and draws 15,500 - which is a sell out and gets a 5.28 rating and also draws 890,000 in Canada which is way above the average of 543,000. Do you account the ratings increase to anything but Hogan?

The show opens with the most incredible reaction I’ve ever seen on television for a professional wrestler when Hulk Hogan comes out. Let’s hear it Jim.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RX2e5h25_d0-RuNtYs6wDTHkVcGstyZo/view?usp=drivesdk (Hogan standing ovation)

Rock comes out and they shake hands and it’s being sold as the greatest match of all-time and Hogan rips his nWo shirt off which brings Nash & Hall out and that’s the main event. Hogan being out of the nWo so quickly had everything to do with the reaction he was getting am I right?

Hindsight being 20.20 there’s no way Hogan doesn’t come back as being part of the nWo since that’s the plan but do you think looking back the real money was in bringing Hogan back and not the whole nWo?

Linda announces that next week there will be a draft with Ric Flair running Raw and Vince McMahon running SmackDown. Along with that the Undisputed and Women’s Champions - at the time Triple H and Jazz - are able to travel between shows.

Was this the best way to launch the brand split in your opinion? Was there a better idea thrown around you’d think would’ve been better? Or were you against the brand split in general?

Brock Lesnar debuts during Al Snow vs. Maven in a Hardcore title match and literally lays waste to all of them and also Spike Dudley who tried to win in 24/7 rules. The image of Brock power bombing Spike 3 consecutive times with Paul Heyman pounding on the mat is one of those moments that stands the test of time. How great was Brock’s debut and how much did Heyman add to the presentation?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RRWbxsY2f6jqJW6VyWlNfnee0mE0cXNT/view?usp=drivesdk (Brock debut)

The main event between Hall & Nash and Hogan & Rock ends in a countout.

Obviously the main angle coming out of this show is the draft. Do you think the draft needed more than just a 1 week build?

SmackDown on March 21st comes from Ottawa in front of 9,610 fans and gets a 4.3 rating.

This is technically the last SmackDown before the brand split and the story is that Vince is trying to line up his roster. How nuts was it trying to decide who went where?

DDP’s European title reign ends very quickly when regal hits him with the brass knuckles for the pin and the victory. This is really the highest DDP would ever be on a card again for the WWE. Is DDP one of the biggest misses in company history?

Rico makes his debut as Billy & Chuck’s “stylist.” Rico was one of the guys who started in the wrestling business later on in life but Jim Cornette always put him over as someone who was very good in the ring and had a personality. Was he doomed from the start as Billy & Chuck’s stylist?

X-PAC reappears and joins the nWo in a beat down on Rock & Hogan. Sean Waltman in the nWo made sense did it not?

There’s rumor and innuendo in the Wrestling Observer that there’s talk internally of putting some Cruiserweights on Smackdown after the draft. There’s talk of Super Crazy being brought in and Jerry Lynn being brought back.

Was there talk of adding cruiserweights to SmackDown? Wasn’t the point of the brand split to help a bloated roster as it was let alone go out and get more talent? Was Lynn ever actual considered?

We know months from now Rey Misterio will sign and head to SmackDown. Was that the best indication that that was the plan?

Someone who is noticeably absent from these shows…especially coming off WrestleMania…is Stone Cold. This is not the walk out we all remember when asked to put over Brock Lesnar a year later. But he definitely went home. Jim, what do you remember of Austin deciding to take some time off?

Austin’s absence is handled much differently this time as the draft takes place on March 25th from State College, PA. Why do you think that was?

It’s announced that Austin would go to the highest bidder and was exempt from the draft. Did anyone on the roster care that he was presented this way when he walked out on the company?

The draft does draw a 5.41 rating which is the highest Raw rating since July. Why do you think there was such an audience for this? Was it because it had never been done before?

Here are the end results when it’s all over:

-Ric Flair's Raw: Undertaker, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, X-Pac, Kane, Rob Van Dam,

Booker T, Big Show, Bubba Ray Dudley, Brock Lesnar, William Regal, Hardys & Lita,

Bradshaw, Steven Richards, Raven, Mr. Perfect, Spike Dudley, D-Lo Brown, Shawn

Stasiak, Terri Runnels, Goldust, Trish Stratus, Justin Credible, Bossman, Tommy

Dreamer, Crash Holly and Mighty Molly.

-Vince McMahon's Smackdown: Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Hulk Hogan, Billy &

Chuck with Rico Costantino, Edge, Rikishi, D-Von Dudley, Mark Henry, Maven, Billy

Kidman, Tajiri, Chris Jericho, Ivory, Albert, Hurricane, Al Snow, Lance Storm, DDP,

Torrie Wilson, Scotty 2 Hotty, Stacy Keibler, Christian, Test, Faarooq, Tazz, Bob Holly,

Big Valbowski and Perry Saturn.

(APA and Dudley Boyz are split up)

Triple H ends up defeating Jericho and Stephanie in a 3-way for the title. With Hunter pinning Stephanie she’s now forced to leave the WWE. Having Stephanie as an on-air character for just a short period of time in this return seems odd. Was there a shift in creative here or was just it done when Hunter returned to write her off?

From the Observer: "It got so funny on 3/25 that the wrestlers that were not among the top 20 picked weren't told at the show which side they were on, only to click into wwf.com that night to find out. Several, who were driving to Philadelphia, ended up having to call friends after the show to find out where they were picked, and even that didn't work since the WWF servers were overloaded in the hour that those picks were being revealed. "

-Is this just a talent relations nightmare? Why was this the course of action decided upon by the company?

Did it make sense with some people that had to be drafted as a group like the nWo but teams like the Dudleys were drafted to be broken up?

SmackDown the next night is in Philadelphia, PA and they draw 13,600 with a 3.7 rating. It is the last official TV show before the brand split.

Had there been talks and determination on announce crews at this point? Was that ever up for debate?

Vince & Taker defeated Flair & Hunter in the main event. That had to be a thrill for Hunter teaming with Flair right?

There’s talk in the Observer of how the WWF was trying to get most of the regulars down to $125,000 or less on the downsides. Is this a company directive considering the downturn in business? Does it help not having real competition at this point in America?

The first Ric Flair Raw takes place from Albany, New York and draws 9,000 fans with a 4.84 rating which shows that the draft did not hold that many viewers week to week. We have a new logo, new theme music, a new Undisputed title belt to merge the WWF & WCW titles together into one finally.

The show opens with Rob Van Dam defending the IC title against Booker. Van Dam gets the win but after the match is attacked by the returning Eddie Guerrero.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Rb7w73HA7Uot2gDLxW5rCo30qGokPRvC/view?usp=drivesdk (Eddie returns)

How happy were you to see Eddie back? We’re you impressed with how he handled himself while gone?

This show is all about Steve Austin signing with Raw and Ric Flair over Vince McMahon and SmackDown but the real story according to the Observer is:

“The real-life differences were settled from what I gather on 3/26, although he still missed his scheduled house shows. WWF handled it very old school con man style, knowing certainly well in advance Austin wouldn't be at the shows that he was the big star in, but never letting the word out in the local media. It's one thing if someone missed a show due to trans problems at the last minute, but something totally different when they just forget to let people know when they know. There were also a lot of complaints in Rochester the next night, as Austin's name was used in all of the advertising for Smackdown as the leading star on the show.”

Do you think the WWF handled it in the old school conman way as Meltzer speculates here?

Was it tough to bring Austin back to the table? Or was this just a “we need to get everyone in the room and let’s figure this thing out” situation?

The nWo takes over the former APA’s office and Meltzer has this great line in the Observer, “Crash Holly finked to Bradshaw.” Was Finkel a snitch?

This is to build to Bradshaw getting an elevated role and working against the nWo but Nash had already tore his bicep in his only match - the tag match we talked about earlier - so it’ll be Scott Hall taking on Bradshaw at the pay-per-view. This return on the nWo is fading quickly isn’t it Jim?

You take a shot at the fans in commentary that Meltzer also brings up. “Jim Ross, apparently reacting to all the criticism of the lack of logic of Flair picking Undertaker and NWO, said that Flair drafted Undertaker to make his life a living hell and that anyone who couldn't figure that out was an idiot. Wow, the babyface announcer called the audience idiots because nobody knew that.”

Did you think it was a logical story or is that Vince talking through you?

SmackDown the next night is taped in Rochester in front of a sell out crowd of 8,500 and it draws a 4.1 rating in Vince McMahon’s first SmackDown.

Michael Cole & Tazz are the new announce team which is odd because it was reported for a long time they didn’t like Tazz as an announcer. Do you remember what happened here?

On Raw Flair announced that Taker would be getting the first title shot but here on SmackDown Vince announces that in the deal he had the right to name the first #1 contender…is this just trying to fill in the logic as we go?

Hogan makes his first appearance in the red & yellow since 1993 in the WWF. The story has always been that Vince had Hulk fly back Monday after Mania to grab the red & yellow gear but waited two weeks to use it. Do you know if that story is true?

Vince announces Hogan gets the title shot…which really makes no sense since Vince is a heel and Hogan is a babyface but whatever. Hogan gets another gigantic pop for the entrance and now it’s set.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qk8v4ksbFHoSDLCbI4s8XwLQu2f0Uv6Z/view?usp=drivesdk (Hogan red & yellow return)

You had to have Hogan win the title in his first big match back in the red & yellow right?

Rock pins Jericho in what will be Rock’s last appearance until July due to doing all the media work for the Scorpion King. Was it sudden that Rock went away or did you have notice and didn’t want to have him lose on his way out?

What did you think of the difference in shows between Raw and SmackDown after the launch? Do you think they were separate enough to make the brand split seem legitimate?

It’s reported in the Observer that at one point the double main for Backlash was scheduled to be Hogan, Rock & Austin vs. the nWo and Hunter vs. Taker for the title. Do you remember that?

Was Taker pissed that Vince made…I mean let’s call it right…the right call by switching the main event to Hunter vs. Hogan?

Dawn Marie and Nova … Mike Bucci … of ECW was signed. Bucci at one point even joined talent relations later on in his career.

Raven gets a tryout as an announcer on Heat with Jonathan Coachman. What did you think of Raven as an announcer?

Raw from Phoenix in front of a sell out of 13,500 draws a 4.76 rating. The focus of the show is Austin & Taker winning matches to set up a #1 contender’s match at Backlash to earn an Undisputed title shot at the May pay-per-view.

This show also has a “great” angle with Spike and Regal. Regal hid brass knuckles in a turnbuckle and while was distracted by the ref Spike came out…grabbed them…hit Regal with them and won the European title when the referee turned back around. Do you know who was the one who put those little things together?

Heyman does his first interview finally about Lesnar and Meltzer calls it classic 70s Grand Wizard introducing the new monster heel of the month.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RYx5jt3QlE6BagxJhb3UY6YLNUazyImg/view?usp=drivesdk (Heyman promo)

How good is Paul in this?

You can tell there’s a program building between Flair and Austin that sadly we never get to. Was that something everybody wanted? A heel Flair in the boss role going after the babyface Austin? Or would two heel owners on both shows hurt the product in your mind?

SmackDown is taped for April 11th in Tucson and really all that’s remembered from this show is Stacy dancing on a table to become Vince’s personal assistant. We’re you at the SmackDown tapings even though you weren’t announcing?

Did you think off the jump Raw was a better show?

We are literally getting ready for the WWF to no longer be the WWF. Did this name change impact you in anyway on the run up to it?

The go-home Raw is from College Station, Texas with 7,939 fans and gets a 4.77 rating. There’s a lot of good work in the women’s division and Meltzer really puts over how far Trish Stratus has come. We’re you surprised how quickly Trish seems to have gotten good in a wrestling ring?

It’s announced that Flair will ref Austin vs. Taker at Backlash. Is this too much for that match or do you think having Naitch in there added something?

Booker T & Goldust are put together as a tag team and man they are just hilarious together. Is this just the case of something being put together and clicking or were they like this backstage?

You do an in-ring interview with Hunter and the crowd is…apathetic to say the least. When you’re the babyface champion taking on the babyface hero and you’re still acting like a babyface…it’s difficult to draw a reaction is it not?

In the same week WWAS - World Wrestling All Stars - from Australia taped a show for pay-per-view which featured Scott Steiner and Nathan Jones on top and Vince McMahon announced a massive show for later on in the year. Do you think that was Vince going after them or just a natural progression of expanding the business?

SmackDown finishes the go-home week with Vince telling Hunter that if he loses to Hogan he will be then put on SmackDown full time. SmackDown needed Hunter right?

Going into Backlash it’s determined that it’s best that you & Lawler call the show and not have it go back and forth between Raw and Smackdown announcers. Did you agree with that decision? Did that lead to any heat with Cole & Tazz?

Before we get into Backlash…

From the Observer: "To the surprise of virtually nobody, "Scorpion King" set a record in its first weekend of being the biggest grossing April release in history with an estimated $36.2 million. It broke the record set three years ago of a $27.8 million opening weekend for "The Matrix." With a $60 million budget and another $35 million earmarked for promotion, the movie looks to be on pace for being a major financial success and Rock looks to be groomed to be one of the biggest money players in Hollywood."

Just how little did we know then huh JR?

We’re at the show JR!

From the Observer:

"Vince McMahon promised the happy ending to the Hulk Hogan comeback, and delivered,

with Hogan winning the WWF title from HHH to headline the Backlash PPV on 4/21 in

Kansas City at Kemper Arena.

It was something that was probably going to happen at some point, but even though it

seemed like the obvious finish from the outside, it was a late decision, not finalized until

the day of the show.

At 48 years old, Hogan becomes one of the oldest world champions in history. While not

the oldest champion in WWF history (that would be Vince McMahon for a one week

gimmick run in 1999 at the age of 54 designed to pop a rating)"

Did Hogan’s age matter at this point or was this a non-issue?

"The show drew 12,489 fans to Kemper Arena, with about 10,000 paid, well shy of a sellout despite the Hogan storyline of the legend in his last quest for the title which is historically a good draw. With ringside at $300, the gate itself was healthy. It looked good on television because they had a large percentage of the seats blocked off, and five minutes before the show, WWF officials went to fans in the balcony and handed them new tickets for much better seats that would be more noticeable on camera. Kansas City has never fully recovered as a wrestling city from the death of Owen Hart in the building at the last PPV there, on May 23, 1999. WCW made things worse by slapping some fans in the face by having Chris Kanyon do a fall off the cage when they did Nitro in the same building a year later, leaving thousands of fans with a terrible taste for wrestling in their mouths."

It has to be eerie going back to Kansas City each time in the Kemper Arena does it not?

The show gets a mixed reaction from the Wrestling Observer readers. 40.3% thumbs up, 33.3% thumbs down, and 26.4% thumbs in the middle.

- 1. Tajiri pinned Billy Kidman in 9:08 to win the cruiserweight title.

They opened with some lucha spots. Tajiri did his hard kicks. Torrie Wilson was again wearing a kimono. A cool spot was Tajiri doing that flip into a springboard elbow backwards but Kidman dropkicked his back. Tajiri did a german suplex into a rolling reverse cradle. They did a series of near falls and the crowd was into it strong since several of them looked like the finish. Kidman picked Tajiri up for a power bomb, but Tajiri blew red mist in his face and got the pin.

***1/2

Was there a lot more to do with Tajiri? Or was his English an issue in getting him to the next level?

- 2. Scott Hall pinned Bradshaw in 5:43.

X-Pac (wearing a Kane mask) was out with Hall, which brought Faarooq out with Bradshaw. They did a reunion between the two of them earlier (on Heat, they did a Dudleys reunion where Bubba thought D-Von had gone nuts). Fans were chanting "APA." Hall was brutal here. Just out of it, not selling much.

Bradshaw did the clothesline, but X-Pac put Hall's foot on the ropes. X-Pac punched Bradshaw and ran from Faarooq, who finally caught him and rammed his back into the Ringpost . While Bradshaw was watching, Hall gave him a low blow and pinned him using the trunks.

1/4*

Was this just another sign that Scott wasn’t working out? This couldn’t have been a worse case scenario for Bradshaw’s big singles debut right?

Showing the tag team guys getting back together on the pre-show…does that hurt the brand extension in your mind?

- 3. Jazz retained the womens title over Trish Stratus in 4:29.

Molly came out to attack Stratus before the match, sending her into the steps. Jazz looks like Mike "Virgil" Jones in drag, but is 100 times the worker. Her in that frilly short dress just doesn't work. Solid stuff, actually very good for a WWF womens match. Jazz used a boston crab, then turned it into the STF for the tap out.

*1/2

Jazz and Virgil JR…but it’s hard to disagree that putting her in a frilly dress didn’t work. It was hard for the WWE to give them a legitimate spotlight as athletes at this time wasn’t it?

- 4. Brock Lesnar beat Jeff Hardy in 5:32 when the ref stopped the match. They announced Matt as being injured and being at home with an injury. Jeff got a lot more offense than I expected, which wasn't a good thing. Match was too long, because it required Lesnar to sell. With his manager and his look, he can be a monster. But as a worker, he's not ready for the big push and trying to have him work hurts more than helps. Lesnar used a double power bomb followed by a spinning (spider) bomb when ref Teddy Long stopped it.

*1/2

The finish is great as it shows the ref has concern that Jeff can’t continue and it gives Brock that separation from being one of the rest of the roster. But Lesnar does give up some offense here and he’s not great at selling at this point. Was he ready at this time for the push or do you think it took a couple months?

- 5. Kurt Angle pinned Edge in 13:25.

Tremendous match. There was some weird commentary in spots. Lawler and Ross are always so smooth together, in that they kind of know where each is going having worked together for so long. Not here. Ross was putting down Edge and asking if there were any gold medalists who came from Canada, then Ross talked about Stu and Bret Hart (who never were in the Olympics) and then they talked about Ben Johnson. Nobody remembers the hockey team. I doubt this played well there. Angle did a tremendous belly to belly superplex early to set up an ankle lock spot. Edge did a scary german suplex with Angle landing on his shoulder and head.

He also did a plancha from the top rope out of the ring and a missile dropkick for a near fall. Angle came back with the Angle slam for a near fall. He went for an ankle lock but

Edge reversed it into a front rolling cradle. Lots of strong near falls with the crowd going nuts for them with a creative clean finish. Edge went for the spear, and Angle kicked a field goal with him, and got a pin with the Angle slam.

****1/4

What do you think was up with your commentary as Meltzer points out?

This is the beginning of a big push for Edge and Angle is just tremendous here. Kurt is the perfect guy to help elevate Edge is he not?

- Jericho did an interview, talking about Kidman, Maven and Stratus having bouts on the show and him not. He said he was leaving, which as a heel, guaranteed he was running in.

It does seem odd that Jericho - coming off main eventing a WrestleMania - doesn’t have a match on the card. Seems odd the previous champion is lost in the shuffle. Does that just show how much talent you have at this point?

- 6. Eddy Guerrero won the IC title from Rob Van Dam in 11:43.

Guerrero looked great but Van Dam just wasn't all the way in it. Crowd was up and down. Van Dam may have been hampered with his knee injury but also worked sloppy. After a ref bump by Tim White (which was about to become a pattern), Guerrero used a neckbreaker on the title belt followed by the frog splash, since they are building the program around who had the better frog splash.

***1/4

Guerrero returns in a big way with a big victory for the IC title. Is this an attempt to show a lot of faith in Eddie in the return? You have to be proud of him here right?

- 7. Undertaker pinned Steve Austin in 27:03. Ric Flair was referee. Flair wore red boots. Ross mentioned Red Shoes Dugan (probably the most famous ref in the business in the 60s and 70s because he was big both on Los Angeles TV, which went everywhere, and in Japan). Lawler didn't know what he was talking about. Crowd chanted "What" like crazy. Fans booed a lot when Austin got a two count and Undertaker didn't look like he kicked out and Flair stopped counting. Flair was not a good ref, and they didn't involve him in spots like you normally do when putting over a special ref. Got no idea why the match was so long but it did nobody any benefit. Hall and X-Pac came out and just watched. They never did get involved.

First Flair bump, so he missed the stunner and Austin having a long pin. Austin went to help up Flair, who was selling way too long for Flair, but I guess he had to. Low blow and choke slam by Undertaker, but Austin kicked out. Undertaker grabbed a chair but Flair kept him from using it. Austin gave Undertaker a low blow and Undertaker must have forgotten immediately because he didn't sell, then kicked Austin in the face. Austin tried another stunner but Undertaker got out and in doing so, Austin knocked down Flair again. Undertaker hit Austin with a chair for a near fall. Austin used Undertaker's dragon sleeper, but he powered out. Austin started stomping him in the corner with the fans chanting "What" with every stomp. Austin and Flair started fighting over the chair when Undertaker kicked the chair in Austin's face and got the pin, even though Austin's foot was on the ropes. It looked like Flair was making sure his foot was on the ropes before counting in the camera angle, but on TV, they showed the opposite angle where it appeared he couldn't see Austin's leg on the ropes. Austin gave Undertaker a stunner after. Coach went to Flair and showed him a tape where Austin's foot was on the ropes

and Flair said, "oh shit."

**1/4

Undertaker vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin: Backlash 2002

30 minutes Jim. This was not the best presentation of everyone here was it?

- 8. Billy & Chuck retained the WWF tag titles over Al Snow & Maven in 5:58.A good match, just put in a death position so high on the card. Big pop when Maven hit the flying crossbody on Gunn. As Snow was chasing Rico, Chuck used the kick to Maven and

Billy pinned him.

**1/4

Let down match but not a bad one like Meltzer said. What did you think of Billy, Chuck & Rico as a whole?

- 9. Hulk Hogan pinned HHH in 22:04 to win the WWF title.

Again, no idea why they went this long. Hogan can't bump and while he tried, he looked bad. HHH did the figure four. Hogan got away, did his big comeback and hit the legdrop. Jericho then attacked ref Earl Hebner and hit Hogan with a chair. HHH, not wanting to win that way I guess, attacked Jericho and knocked him out of the ring. Hulk up spot, three punches, high kick but the missed legdrop. HHH did a pedigree so mistimed I thought it was Vince taking it. Undertaker then hit Hebner. That's both main events with multiple ref bumps.

Undertaker hit HHH hard with a chair and pulled Hogan on top. Hogan didn't want it either, so clotheslined Undertaker over the top and in that one spot, I already was scared of them doing a singles match. Then came the legdrop and the pin. There was only real heat in the last minute, but the crowd went nuts when Hogan won. HHH bladed, and with the blood running down his face, he strangely looked like a face painted Ultimate Warrior. He teased attacking Hogan after but they shook hands. They posed together forever once the show went off the air.

*¼

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ReR0mAs_wCFG5-vq5IPVAYX4L-rIPFk-/view?usp=drivesdk (Hogan vs HHH from Backlash)

I mean again JR these match times are insane for some of these guys. Why do you think the show was laid out this way?

Did you know at the time Hogan was going to have a short shelf life as champion?

Did you think HHH vs. Hogan was the best you were going to get out of Hogan?

Well JR what did you think of the show? Thumbs up, thumbs down or thumbs in the middle?

Is it crazy seeing 20 years later and this is the last pay-per-view of the World Wrestling Federation?