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Doctor Who 10x12 “The Doctor Falls” FULL REACTION (Patreon)

Published:
2021-10-22 04:01:32
Edited:
2021-10-23 16:27:59
Imported:
2021-10

Content



Mega LINK:https://mega.nz/#P!AgE6MlBNOJElrutdY4feiDrp7bvpfKEEyQOQj_Ea7qPFg_0v6exhvSSTUiuhjAEGrbYxxwsYKawmMeP6orEUTlkkdM-nCDM9Svq8C7eXtVgtTEOUwP2Va2mN5Z7uTh6pQk3GY7LiW_A

 Password: otherboy 

Google Drive LINK:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QteYSNUI4tq50jPM-FmFI2Pe6-2sOhrd/view?usp=drivesdk


Comments

DeathSwitch

Oh boy, i do disagree with you about this two parter being the worst, i think theyre the best episodes this season. Rachel Talaylay directed Heaven Sent and Hell Bent.. season 9s final 2 episodes. Ill try to help but im not going to go over everything. I said it in the last episodes comments but none of the Doctors companions have a happy ending during Moffatt or Davies. Moffatt wrote season 5 and most of 6 and theyre two of the best series of new who(imo). Also if they wouldve pulled the whole 'it was all a dream/fake' it wouldve just been like.. well wtf what was the point in us watching any of this if it was all fake. Capaldi started regenerating from when that cyberman electrocuted him on the roof at the start of the episode, he was holding it off until he could try and save Bill then he held off to try to save the kids.. and then he just wanted to kill himself by blowing up the whole floor & refusing to regenerate.. its actually really sad, he lost his friends, Bill and Nardole and his oldest friend (from his perspective) betrayed him. Every Doctor(apart from eccleston) since the revival has had 3 seasons and 1 or more specials as a 'send off episode', usually around christmas time. I thought Missys end was perfect tbh, the whole "without hope, witness or reward" can be applied to her, she knew she would probably die and she still chose to go back and help the Doctor, of course the old version of her wouldnt let that happen. The master/Missy stabbing themselves in the back was pretty on brand for them. About Bills end, Bill said she really liked Heather and the one of the reasons Bill went with the Doctor in the first place was because he said "Its a big universe, maybe we will find her again" and they did. I dont think Moffatt not being gay has much to do with how he writes relationships. Amy and Rory were pretty toxic, Clara and Danny were toxic af and Bill and Heather just fancied eachother; hes just bad at writing relationships. Moffat got a lot of shit for not having consequences for Rory dying and coming back to life over and over, so he killed the next two companions to prove a point that travelling with the Doctor is dangerous. 10 and 11 never wrestled or challenged anyone pointing a gun at someone apart from with words..so im not sure what 12 was expected to do.. hes an old man! If you ever go back and rewatch 10s and 11s series, they could be far more cruel than 12 ever was.. 12 never gave anyone false hope.. but it mostly gets ignored because 10/11 were charasmatic when they were lying to people about saving them. Im sorry if this feels like an attack, i honestly dont mean to come off that way. im just frustrated because it never really felt like you gave this version of the doctor a chance; everything was his fault even if he didnt know what was happening. The whole story that was being told throughout the 3 seasons about who he is and if he is a good man felt ignored when it was answered in this episode by the speech to the master about why he does what he does that he is.. i think it really wouldve helped you knowing how long the showrunner ran for, it wouldve helped a lot with knowing why Bill had to be written out of the show. Oh well, shame you didnt like this but, gotta be honest, i didnt expect you to. Just didnt think youd hate it this much though honestly that really sucks, I do hope you enjoy what Chibnall does with the show though. Take care.

Ian Smith
>>70273367

For me,The Doctor Falls isn't as tight or suspenseful as WEAT; but it's still a fine season Finale (Moffats best,imo);and I thought the tie-in with the first story of the season was pretty neat,and completed Bill's arc satisfactorily, Never mind - OtherBoy's review just goes to show that you can't please everyone; and his opinions certainly make a change from the usual "Oh wow! That was brilliant" that most reactors tend to come up with :)

Toby Harmon

First of all, I'd like to say that while I disagree with your "this is stupid" opinion, I do respect it. I think you were in denial at the idea of Bill being dead last episode, so you just let this episode play out as you were expecting it all to be a dream or something. You had no real connection to what was happening. It was just words and scenes to you. I get it, but this is a season finale two-parter. It would be dumb if it turned out to be a simulation run by the Doctor or something, it would be like: "What's the point?" - and I'm sure you'd be criticising them for doing something as pointless like that too if it did happen, as we all would. "She comes out of nowhere" | Bill told Heather to promise that she wouldn't leave her, and the Pilot creature took that literally, so left Bill her tears. She's technically been waiting for this moment to save her. Moffat loves his fairytale endings. Personally, I don't, I think it lessens the emotional impact of her death, but oh well. "That's the end of Missy?" | The two iterations of the Master literally shot themselves in the back. The Master shot Missy just as she was going to go and finally stand with the Doctor. It's poetic, and tragic because the Doctor didn't see that his old friend was finally going to stand with him because she was killed before she could reach him. Is that the end of that character, though? Forever? Who knows. "I hate when they made Peter Capaldi say all the lines of the previous Doctors." | Why? He's the Doctor. Still the same character that he was in all of the previous seasons you've seen. He's not some sort of imposter. "Basically he did nothing to prevent that." | If you're talking someone out of jumping off a bridge, you don't grab them so they can't jump, you reason with them. Cleverly. That's why the police receive training to do that, and why there are expert negotiators to talk people out of detonating bombs, for example. If the Doctor grabbed the Blue guy, he could've caused him to fire the gun anyway as a quick reflex, and Bill still would've died. I do agree that he could've used his screwdriver to make the gun malfunction but then there'd have been no story or stakes. "The Doctor's like, 'I'm not gonna change, I don't feel like it'. Since when could you do that?" | He's tired of constantly changing his face, body, and personality, so he's in a state of denial. Right now he's hanging on to the face he has, but it's coming, and can't be prevented. The Tenth Doctor did something similar in Series 4 by channeling his regeneration energy into his severed hand in the jar. Later, the same Doctor held his regeneration off to say goodbye to his companions. The Eleventh Doctor did the same thing to say goodbye to Clara. "A 9 rating?" | Fans knew at the time had a sense of how things were going to play out, so we were expecting something big to happen in the final two episodes. I guess being a reactor, you have no idea about any of that, so it can come as a shock. "I feel like it's getting worse and worse and worse." | I felt the same way at the time too. But you felt the same way about seasons during the RTD era if I remember correctly? That often happens, people just don't understand the show at first and they hate it, and then it leans into the campiness of it even more in the Moffat era, and then they're like "Oh, I miss the old show" even though they slated it and tore it apart while they were watching it. This is Doctor Who, and it has always been this way. It's always been campy and messy and all over the place. It's a show about time travel. During the classic era that they guys running around in big ant costumes, and back then there was never a series arc or anything like that. Some people don't connect to Peter Capaldi's Doctor but they fail to remember that the First Doctor was also old, and he was the original. Yes, David Tennant and Matt Smith were hot and sexy and whatever - and they were great Doctors - but Twelve is the closest to the Classic Who Doctors out of all the Doctors to have appeared in the revived series. Plus, I feel like he's objectively the best actor to have played the Doctor. Nobody else could've done justice to his war speech from last season, or his "Where I stand is where I fall" speech from this episode. But all of that is a lot of the time overlooked because he's old. Again, I disagree, but I respect your opinion. As someone else said, I hope you don't see this as an attack, because you're in my Top 2 favorite reactors and you've helped me and so many others out so much with your content. It's just sad when someone doesn't see what you see in a show, but that's just how taste is - it's subjective. Hoping you enjoy Season 11 and beyond.

Ana Adame

Worse than love and monsters? 👀👀 To me its an alright episode but not my favorite. David Tennant stopped himself from regenerating back in season 4 after being shot by a Dalek. From what I understand (I may be wrong) even if they keep the same face it still counts as a regeneration. 11 couldn't regenerate again because he was at his last cycle, even though there are 12. He received his new regeneration cycle from the timelords. I am curious to see what you will think of Jodie's run.

otherboy
>>70292025

Lol I loved Love and Monsters except for the ending. It created likable characters who had things to do and had desires. Bill had nothing to do for most of the season and hardly had any desires other than supposedly to possibly find Heather who she met once before she turned into the Pilot. Wasn’t for me but thanks for your comment.

Anonymous

Tbh I get what you were saying about Bill because this was when the BBC started to force inclusivity rather than it being for a creative decision. Therefore Bill saying she liked women every episode and it not coming to anything made it feel a lot more tacked on than it would in Torchwood or something RTD would write like it's a sin. Unfortunately it doesn't get much better, but at least it's used more than one line per episode, hopefully RTD will bring some proper representation when he returns. That being said I did like Bill's personality and the dynamic she had with the doctor and nardol, I just didn't get invested in her as much as other companions

Daryl

I'll just politely disagree with you. It is shame that you felt this way, but I do however understand it completely. You simply aren't wrong in the same way that neither am I. The subjective reality of differing tastes is what this boils down to. There's simply nothing that either if us could say that would or could change that salient fact and that's ok isn't it. It's a non starter if there ever was one. Bill is a favourite of mine along with Donna and I credit that to Pearl's performances for a lot of this series, much in the same way as I did for Catherine. I hate the choice they made Bill's character, but respect it as a writing choice. Yet again much the same way I did for Donna. When The Doctor touches your life, pain and death can and do inevitably follow. In the episode Rose, Clive does warn Rose that Death is like The Doctor constant companion. The possitives I can see out of these undesirable yet inevitable outcomes, are the performances. Yet again Pearl's was stellar in my opinion.

Daryl

I feel it could be said that it's a rarity in British writing to have outcomes for characters that feel deserved for the sake of delivering up more palatable endings. This isn't just indicative of DW as rule. But I concede it's become a badge too often warn, which can lose its effectiveness. There are obviously examples where that pathos is swerved and they can feel ever the sweeter for it.

WhoviVortex

I think everyone's pretty much said anything I could add, haha. Despite disagreeing, I enjoyed your reaction; I do feel that unfortunately, perhaps the expectation of it not being real meant that the stakes/emotion were void in your experience, but that's understandable within the lines of what you thought would happen. The good news for you is Series 11 is coming up after the Christmas Special, which, as I'm sure you know, brings in the new Showrunner. I hope that fresh take allows you to feel a level of relief in enjoying the show- but we'll see what you think! Best advice there; perhaps try and avoid expectations set by any fan reactions that might've slipped in towards it. You'll find it a lot more freeing!

otherboy
>>70312369

I haven’t heard anything about the next season so I’m looking forward to it.

Mark Ward

I disagree but not as strongly as some of the other commenters. I actually enjoyed Season 10 when I first watched it, but looking back at it I think Season 10 is maybe the weakest season overall and the finale doesn't really work for me. It's a shame because I enjoy the partnership of 12, Bill and Nardole. But I do think you'd convinced yourself she wasn't a Cyberman so much that you didn't get any emotional impact. I remember getting serious emotional impact from Bill's conversion when I first watched it. I remember you hating the first epiosde of the Monks BECAUSE it was a simulation and not real, so it's surprising you were looking for this to be fake... :D Anyways, onwards we go... !!

otherboy
>>70401804

Yeah I didn’t like the simulation in the monk two parter because it didn’t really serve enough of a purpose for me. It would have here IMO because it could’ve been a way for the Doctor to test Missy which they’ve been building up all season only to kill her off. And there wasn’t really a point to killing off Bill IMO other than what someone else said: because it was “brave” to kill a companion. That’s not enough for me. It also wasn’t brave to me to kill off the black lesbian who had little to no storyline. I really liked Bill because of the actress but they gave her nothing to do and then “killed” her. Disappointing😩

JY

Wow! I knew you'd have mixed feelings but I didn't expect you to view this as the worst episode. Lmao! Your reaction to the fan reception was hilarious. I disagree with you about this being the worst. I think we've had worse episodes than this (cough Sleep No More, Forest in The Night, Hell Bent cough). But you brought some valid criticisms about this finale. It has great moments but a lot of issues too. I don't think it's as good as World Enough and Time in retrospect but I still wish it would have been Capaldi's last episode because I absolutely hate the Christmas special that you're about to watch next. I'll give you my thoughts on this finale first though. On a first watch, I enjoyed most of this finale but when I went back to rewatch it again after a while, my feelings kinda changed towards it. I don't think it's bad but it became more average than great as I originally thought. I still like it but not as much as before. Part of me was probably hyped from World Enough and Time on a first watch but I still think the first part was much stronger than the second part in retrospect. This story still has some really good moments but also very weird and drawn out stuff too. Things I liked - As horrible as the situation is, the scenes with Bill having to experience the trauma of becoming a Cybermen are effective while tragic. I like how they often change the perspective of Bill seeing herself while everyone else sees her as a Cybermen. Then the reality hits her when she looks in the mirror. That always gives me an emotional impact with Bill not wanting to live. - The Doctor appealing to Missy's better nature and how Missy's inner conflict leads to her finally deciding to stand with The Doctor before John Simm's Master strikes her down. I think it fits for both Masters to stab each other in the back as their end. - The Doctor, Bill and Nardole's final moments together. After what they've been through together, it feels bittersweet for their final moment together to be a discussion before the final battle but it somehow works for me. But I wish they could have had more time together as Nardole's fate is uncertain after this story. - The Doctor thinking of his previous companions before he woke up (Although poor Mickey and Rory were omitted from it). - The visuals for this episode are genuinely beautiful especially with scenes where The Doctor confronted both Masters - The Doctor's speech towards both Masters. I think The Doctor is mainly the highlight for me in this episode. Now for the things I dislike about this episode or stuff that I feel conflicted with - Bill's ending feels very jumbled. I'm still not entirely sure what to make of it. Normally I complain about Moffat reversing death too much but for this case, I'm glad Bill got another chance to live because what she went through felt too horrible but at the same time, the ending with Heather saving her doesn't feel as rewarding or satisfying as it should. They set up Heather's tears saving Bill from the Pilot episode but we as an audience barely got to see Bill and Heather together so the emotions are kinda lost for me in that regard. Remember when I said that Moffat isn't oood at writing LGBT characters and romance? I think this kinda proves my point. For the most part, Bill is the exception as she's mostly written well but her story arc seems to end abruptly after the Monk trilogy. We don't even get closure with the people who were a part of her life either. I also don't believe that Bill would leave The Doctor either. I figured she would at least wait for him to wake up before believing that he's dead. I wish Bill could have stayed on for another series. - The final battle with the Cybermen also isn't as good as I remember it being. It definitely did feel drawn out with the army group scenes and the shots of The Doctor falling to the ground. But the cybermen in particular feel less threatening here than they did in World Enough and Time which set them up so brilliantly. I think the inclusion of the updated Cybermen models probably didn't help in that regard. - Even though both Masters had good moments together, they didn't really have much to contribute in the story despite it essentially being Day of The Master. John Simm's Master in particularly is very weirdly written in this episode. Maybe it's alluding to the Doctor eventually being a woman soon but the comments such as "Is the future gonna be all girl" felt bizarre to me. This might be unpopular opinion but I much prefer the campy and crazy Master from Series 3 as opposed to this more generic stoic portrayal which doesn't feel fitting for Simm's Master although I know they explained why he wasn't like that anymore. But I still don't like it anywhere near as much as he was in Series 3 and End of Time. - When The Doctor is thinking of his past companions, Clara is shown in his memories which shouldn't be a thing since he's not supposed to remember her at this point. I feel like that was a major error since his memories of Clara are wiped. - There are quite a number of scenes particularly the beginning which feel very all over the place due to how sporadic they are. We were literally jumping around from scene to scene with not much time to breathe at the start. - The fact that this wasn't Capaldi's final episode. It definitely should have been. Despite my issues with it, this would have been a much stronger way for Capaldi to exit instead of delaying his regeneration further because I absolutely hate the next Christmas special so brace yourself for me to rant again. I've praised Moffat a lot with Series 10 but that stops with the next episode because I hate it so much. The amount of hatred you have for this episode is what I have for the next episode. It's a shame you didn't enjoy Series 10 cause I genuinely thought you'd like it more than Series 8 and 9. I'm curious to know how you would rank all of Capaldi's seasons. For me, this is the only Capaldi series that I genuinely like because I feel like his Doctor has finally come through in a stronger light and the Tardis team that he has for Series 10 is better too. I genuinely prefer Bill and Nardole over Clara as Capaldi's companions. Had they stayed longer with stronger writing, I would like Capaldi a lot more but because of Series 8 and 9, I'm not fond of most of Capaldi's stories. It's Capaldi himself that pretty much carries the weight of this material. I wonder what you'll make of the Christmas special. I'm about to watch your reaction to it now. I can't express enough how much I genuinely hate it lol. Rant incoming later.

otherboy
>>70591021

I agree with most of your criticisms of this episode and World Enough and Time was definitely better. I think Series 8 had the best episodes for Capaldi. I think “Listen” and “Kill the Moon” stood out for me. It got worse after that season for me.