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RWBY Chapter 7 Episode 7

Extended Thoughts:

In this episode there is one scene that really stands out to me on a massive level which was Blake's and Yang's choice to tell Robyn sensitive information, information that they weren’t supposed to tell.  On one hand you can see that not telling Robyn was making the situation worse. There is a palpable distrust between Ironwood and Robyn and that secret was the thing that was getting in the way. I understand we're Yang and Blake are coming from.

Although the book that I'm reading currently is called Principles Ray Dalio, it is an audiobook And there are some great nuggets of wisdom inside of that book. One of the lessons that I learned was the order of consequences. There are first-order consequences second-order consequences and third-order consequences.

For example, let's say you want to workout  now. The first order consequence for most people would be discomfort,  the expulsion of energy and  a calculated strain on your body. for most people they just focus on the first order consequence which is negative ( well for most people ) .  The  second-order consequence is actually super positive: you are either losing weight, gaining muscle, and having a more healthy functional body.

The point he makes is that most people focus only on the first order consequences and not the second and even possibly the third order consequences of their actions. Which completely describes what happened with Yang and Blake. The question they might have wanted to ask is if this got out to Ironwood how would that affect their working relationship with Ironwood?

How could we ask Ironwood to trust us if we don't trust his leadership and in fact we undermined it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts over you guys have a great day

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RWBY Chapter 7 Episode 7

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Comments

Anonymous

Adam is one of my favorites. While yes he is a TERRIBLE person his character is very real and extremely accurate to those kind of people. They're just a bad mental breakdown and a bit of anime badassery away and thats what you get. The problem for Adam comes in with the fact that his spite was met with positive reinforcement time and time again. He gave his everything to Blake and for a while... it worked, but when Blake saw what he had become she left and Adam couldn't understand why. Because of the constant praise and support of other members of the White Fang who follow him what little change he saw in himself he thought it was good. When Blake left him all he had was who he had become, the support of that, and his love of Blake that had nowhere to go. After the loss at Haven he lost everything he ever had. All that was left was his love for Blake so he clung to that with everything he had... determined to get back what he had before. This does not make his actions ok. One can emphasize with his tragedy but at the end of the day we have to remember that this type of attitude is unacceptable and inexcusable. If you can help them out of it good but never do so to your own detriment. Sometimes you have to leave people to rot in their own stew of spite and selfish pity.

Andre D

I don’t agree with the comment of the day. Blake didn’t forget the pain that was inflicted on Adam, but she had to leave because he was changing for the worst and, as she reveals in volume 3, he kept trying to justify it to her in a way where she wasn’t even sure of the truth for a while (see also: the Adam character short when he’s talking with Blake and manipulated her). And even when Blake talks about Adam embodying spite in volume 5 she says that she previously thought he represented more positive ideals. Heck. As seen in this episode Blake even regrets that it went so far that she had to kill him.

Spadeas

About Ironwood's trust and reaction, to the choice of Blake and Yang, as they say, better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Yes Blake and Yang only see the first consequence to come, but their goal is to finish the tower quickly, the two solutions are either, to capture Robyn, or to make her understand the need for her to stop stealing the material. Robyn is defending the people of Atlas, she's on the same side as Ruby and Ironwood, so making her an ally is more beneficial than anything else. In addition, capturing her would surely raise disputes and add fuel to the fire. Ironwood's decision was clearly not the ideal, Blake and Yang preferred to disobey even if they were punished later, but hoping for the best to come. This goes back to the question you asked about laws, if a law is unjust, should it be respected ? And then it also ties in with what Tai and Raven taught Yang, bypassing obstacles and asking questions rather than stupidly following orders and taking words. In the end, Yang only follows these teachings, hoping not to regret her choices. Compared to Pietro and unconditional love, you are a creator, I am a creator too, so I suppose you also easily understand what it is to love one of your creation like your child. For Pietro it is even truer, and it is precisely the addition of fatherly love plus that of creator that makes all the charm and the power of his love for Penny.

Anonymous

Blake loved Adam. She did. But she also loved people, she loved the cause she was fighting for, and after a while she saw that Adam wasn’t fighting for what she wanted. He wanted to hurt humans, and she didn’t. In the v6 Adam trailer we see a flashback where she’s starting to question him, and it always makes me feel so awful because it’s a prime example of gaslighting. It reminds me so much of my abusive relationship. Yes, Adam’s life was terrible. He was a product of oppression, passion, and misguidance. But his actions aren’t excused, and Blake isn’t to blame for anything he’s done. She didn’t leave without talking to him - we saw her talk to him in the trailers. Adam never saw the fault in his own viewpoint and actions, and blamed Blake up until the end. Adam is a victim of oppression and passion, as I said, but Blake is his victim. In the storyline between Blake and Adam, she is the victim, not him. Victim blaming goes nowhere and isn’t acceptable. Women have every right to leave an abusive situation, and they should.

Anonymous

I always and forever view ironwoods reactions as unnecessary because he never even tried to work with Mantle citizens or the happy huntresses. They gave him plenty of chances and he responded with nothing, and if they don’t know any better, of course they’re going to do what they need to to survive. They don’t know there’s a bigger threat - in their eyes, the biggest threat is ironwood endangering their families by not repairing the mantle wall. Him expecting people to fall in line just because he said so is ridiculous and short sighted. He may be looking at the big picture, but treating innocent lives like they’re canon fodder for his cause is complete bullshit. He refuses to see any other options because he has his mind set on one thing, and he clearly is never questioned by his military personal. Hes lacking empathy and understanding so he can’t see the whole picture or understand the justified measures people are taking for self preservation.

Anonymous

Gosh where do I begin with Adam. He's so freakin amazing as a character and as an antagonist. I genuinely feel like him and Ironwood are the best written characters in the show, but i'll keep it semi-brief. Adam is relatable in many ways to me while also doing things i'll never understand because i'm not him. I get his rage toward humanity and everyone around him. Knowing his story and things that happen in his short, he was raised as a fighter for the Faunus after he got out of the branding situation. You can tell even after he killed the humans attacking his team he was still surprised to see that people praised him for it. So by that logic killing humans was a good thing to the people he wished to protect (including Blake). Now in the midst of season 3 he's seen to turn down cinder because his organization is a force of revolution, to take down the people oppressing them for decades and decades, to show that they demand respect. Down the line Adam knew "equality" was impossible due to how humans treat others, so the only choice the Faunus have is to fight back. After losing so much along the way while having Blake by his side she left him without any clear reason until much later. Now he has nothing to fight for except revenge on everyone who's wronged him, which by his standpoint is...everyone. Nobody was there for him in his time of need and when they were they abandoned him later. No friends, no family, just the shell of what once was a noble person. As black boy in this society I get exactly where he's coming from, especially seeing new minority deaths everyday on the news. I feel like honestly i'd go down Adam's path after what happened to him in his life, but that's not for here. His semblance is also an amazing touch, he's taken hits his whole life and finally he gets to climb to the top and send the hate and fury in his soul back at them. So poetic honestly. The bmbly vs Adam fight has to be my least favorite fight out of every show ive watched for that reason, he was nerfed for this fight. It doesn't make bmbly look strong, it made Adam look weak which is the OPPOSITE of what he is. He's a strong ass man who's gone though more then team rwby and most of the cast the frank. Honestly stan Adam, for trucking through hardships and pain his whole life to be taken down by two angry hypocritical lesbians. R.I.P Adam

Anonymous

Ironwood oooooo boy. I'm sorry but imma have to bring in my hate for team RWBY to do this. Ironwood is one of the best generals out there cause he never gives in. Take him not listening to team RWBY for example. Look at this from his perspective, 4 girls walk up in your kingdom in a stolen ship, bring really the only person left you truly know (Qrow) and some old lady, soon after they arrive Penny is framed, an election is hacked, Robyn is F-ing up your plans to unite the world and kids that you gave huntsman licenses to are now trying to tell you how to run your kingdom. Like, you're LITERALLY living under my roof, you don't get to boss me around after i've been nice to you, ABSOLUTELY not if you know the very important info team RWBY is hiding from him. Instead of not telling the general of the best army of the world that the enemy you're trying to protect your kingdom from is immortal, how about you give him that key info so he can actually think of a strat that might actually work :0 No way. I can't stand the fact that Blake was the one to convince Yang, who was right at first about not ratting out to Robyn, to tell Robyn about the amity coms tower. I can't go farther cause of spoilers but I'll defend Ironwood at the end of V.7 and throughout V.8 lol I got some stuff to say.

Patrick Henninger

Idk if this has already been brought up, but I feel like this episode, which is kind of the turning point fot the rest this season and the next one in combination with the next episode, is a good time to bring it up. Ironwood's Semblance, Mettle, which is never talked about in-show and was told to us at a panel at RTX a year or two ago. It's Basically Tunnel Vision on steroids, in that it allows (more like forces) James to focus on only one thing and make decisions on that one thing easier. The problem presented with his semblance is, much like Qrow, he can't control it or choose to deactivate it. So it tends to turn James into a sort of freight train that CAN plow through any problem, at the expense of all the alternative options available to him. Its a good semblance to have when he has time to think, but in a situation like the one they're in, and with the amount of power the General has, his typical mentality of "throw violence and power at it until it stops being a problem", and a semblance that does not allow him to pursue potentially less volatile options makes him into a ticking time bomb as his stress and distrust of others builds.

James Bailey

I have many problems with this analysis. You can empathize with what Adam went through, but that doesn't excuse his actions. Those were still his decision to make. He wasn't this great revolutionary fighter like he thought he was. If he was to stay true to his cause then he wouldn't have worked with Cinder because she is a human. He couldn't care less about the faunus that were killed in the tunnel during the breach, his people. He helped take down one of the 4 main academy's and global communication's, not for the faunus but just to hurt humans. He killed Sienna to take her place and tried to kill Ghira and Kali to prevent them from rallying support against the current WF. Adam may have started as a revolutionary, but once his murderous actions were praised he slowly started to turn into a terrorist. It became less about the cause and all about killing all the humans for supremacy. He was also not nerfed during the BB fight by 'angry hypocritical lesbians' as you so callously put it. Compare his fight to all the others. His ace in the whole was his semblance and he was spamming that thing non stop. Add that into the fact that Blake was no longer scarred to confront him and Yang no longer attacked in a blind rage then you see the outcome. Adam is strong, I'm not denying his strength. But his strength has been greatly exaggerated. His attacks on Yang and Blake in V3 wasn't really a fight. (Yang launched a telegraphed attack that is easily countered and Blake was too scared to really fight back.) The only fights we really got with Adam were against random people. No body of any real strength until he fought BB again in V6. Stans keep comparing him to Qrow level of skill when there is nothing to support that.

James Bailey

RWBY is making mistakes depending on your stance, but pretending Ironwood is a saint in this is wrong. For being the best military there are a lot of issues I see in it. First is that Ironwood doesn't seem to have any logistical experts. He is the only one that commands the military. And considering his obvious PTSD it's a mistake to keep somebody like that in command. Team RWBY is not telling him what to do. They are expressing concern for him taking things too far. His main concern is finishing the tower before he tells Atlas and Mantle about Salem, which would cause panic and a grimm attack. The problem is he wouldn't really need to tell Mantle at this juncture because they are already at the breaking point. Nora pointed out Ironwood's flawed logic. He said that everyone is baring the burden. Atlas has bared none of it and Mantle has bared all of it. The only reason Robyn is a problem is because the wall that protects Mantle lets Grimm in constantly. That his military seems to be failing to keep out of the city might I add. He relies on Penny to do all of that work but she can't be everywhere at once. He desperately needed RWBY's help since it looked like the Ace Ops were too busy to help out in Mantle before hand. (They only showed up after the Grimm attack in episode 1 saying it was to arrest the unauthorized use of weapons. Not to protect the city from Grimm.) There is an easy solution to placate Robyn. You don't have to fix the wall completely. Use some rock dust to plug the hole and place a couple of paladins in front of it. That shows that Ironwood actually cares about the city which will make Robyn and it's people happier, thus reducing the amount of Grimm currently attracted to them. A proper logistics team could tell him that it wouldn't take much dust to plug the hole. We saw what Weiss could make in V6 with the small amount in her sword. Telling Robyn was a giant risk and could still prove to be a mistake. But pretending Ironwood is this saint who is looking after everybody is also incorrect. He is already starting to sacrifice his morals because he has PTSD and shouldn't be in command. Honestly all of team RWBY and JNR needs to see a therapist. They all have some level's of PTSD.

Anonymous

There's a saying which applies to Adam: "Hurt people hurt people". He was a victim of abuse and abuse victims sometimes then abuse others, so I like how realistic in some ways his story is. But ultimately being hurt in the past doesn't give you an excuse to hurt others, and doesn't justify his actions towards Blake and Yang. I would have sympathy with his character if he ended up more like Ilia: making some bad decisions but when faced with hurting people she cares about she broke down and admitted she was wrong then worked on redemption. Adam had plenty of times to back out, but instead be doubled down on the abuse, not stopping even after failing, until Blake and Yang had no other choice to stop him but to kill him. And like another comment here said, women have the right to leave abusers without being stalked and having their loved ones hurt and almost killed.

Jason S

I fundamentally disagree with the comment at the beginning. Adam's anger and rage towards the SDC, and the humans who subjugated him is justified and understandable. However, once he shifts the focus of that rage onto someone or someting else, he loses any justification he might have had.

David J Moore

This is it in a nutshell. Spite is "a desire to hurt, annoy, or offend someone." While Adam's emotions were justified, reasonable, and empathizable, that does not mean they can be used to justify spite.

David J Moore

By the way, I don't know if you noticed, but Watts was in Pietro's group photo. I also wanted to thank you for engaging in the show's philosophical questions. You bring a decent amount of prior knowledge and thought to the discussion, which is admirable on its own, and you actually engage with the morals and the lessons the show puts at the forefront, which very few reactors do.

Anonymous

As for your extended thoughts, I wanna point out that they had reasons to distrust Ironwood. Dont forgot that this guy, back in the end of volume 2, TUNRED ON OZ IN THE VALE COUNCIL just so he could have his way in the vytal festival security. He's the last one who has the right to complain on undermining authority (remember, he hasbeen inside Oz's inner circle for years when he did that)

RadShiro

I really like volume 7 and 8 and most of the reason has to do with Ironwoods character and his situation. He's always been that know it all POWER MAKES RIGHT type of character, but now he thinks hes the only one with the true answer. How only HE can be the hero and everyone else is just there to help him. The funny thing is you can see how he got to the point. You can understand his line of thinking and his actions, even when their awful. Thats whats so fascinating