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Is C18 a Failure? | #229 (Patreon)

Published:
2018-08-23 19:32:45
Imported:
2022-03

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Show Notes:

Lack of reprints. Unfocused deck design. Low power level. These are some of the criticisms that have been aimed at Commander 2018. On this episode of the podcast, Josh and DJ take an in-depth look at this year’s precon decks and break down whether they think C18 is a success or failure.

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What we talked about on THE END STEP:

Sharp Objects:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Objects_(miniseries)

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Files

Is C18 a Failure? l The Command Zone #229 l Magic: the Gathering EDH

Support the show and become a Patron! Be a part of our community, receive awesome rewards, and more! http://www.patreon.com/commandzone ---------- Show Notes: Lack of reprints. Unfocused deck design. Low power level. These are some of the criticisms that have been aimed at Commander 2018. On this episode of the podcast, Josh and DJ take an in-depth look at this year’s precon decks and break down whether they think C18 is a success or failure. ---------- The Command Zone podcast is brought to you by Card Kingdom! Make sure to use our affiliate link the next time you purchase Magic cards or products: http://www.cardkingdom.com/commandzone Huge thanks to UltraPro (http://www.ultrapro.com - @UltraProIntl) for sponsoring this episode and providing awesome prizes for our giveaways! Find UltraPro on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/UltraProInternational/ Purchase a Game Knights t-shirt (available for a limited time): http://bit.ly/GKShirt ---------- What we talked about on THE END STEP: Sharp Objects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Objects_(miniseries) ---------- Follow us on Twitter! @CommandCast @JoshLeeKwai @jfwong @jumbocommander Email us: commandzonecast@gmail.com ---------- Enjoying DJ as a guest host on our show? Be sure to check out his YouTube channel: youtube.com/jumbocommander ----------- Huge thanks to Geoffrey Palmer for providing some of his amazing Living Cards animations for our videos. Follow him here: https://twitter.com/livingcardsmtg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIuqWt79_d0hUK-dRhzFtAQ Check out our sister podcast - The Masters of Modern: http://collected.company/category/the-masters-of-modern/ Commander/EDH Official Rules, Banlist, Forums, and more: http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

Comments

Anonymous

Even if you already have big collection, wouldn't you like to have another Vedalken Orrery? Another C-Rfit? Both of you guys consistently have over 20 decks. I know DJ is over 30. Everyone could always use more $20 staples.

commandzone
>>14909655

The point of what we were saying is just that the reprints were not the FIRST thing we were worried about. Not that we didn't care about them at all (obviously based on later discussion in the episode). -JLK

Anonymous

Totally. No one can say you weren't adequately harsh.

Anonymous

I'm quite happy to see that you guys are 100% in agreement with my own view of the decks. My evolution through this was... 1. Got word of the color combinations and themes and was underwhelmed (Really, another artifacts deck after Dareti and Breya?). 2. Saw the new non-commanders cards and was mildly interested. 3. Saw the new commanders and was absolutely a fan. Because, as you point-out, they are opening new roads and giving life to previously non-viable design spaces that MTG has given us, and that were too narrow, or simply had too few cards to stand up for themselves. 4. Finally, after a few games, I started dismantling the esper deck to build around the ninja commander, and decided to check what cards I could reuse... That's when I realized that 90% of the deck was... bulk. And I really felt like it had let me down. So, all in all. The decks are cool, great jump-off points, with many innovative commanders... but if you look at the cost of ordering just the commanders and the new cards, for the first time ever, I'm going to consider doing just that if the next iteration is anywhere near this one in power level. And I'm not talking about reprints, I'm talking about on-point cards. Because, something you may not have noticed, some of these decks have a lot of very generic inclusions that don't justify buying the whole thing.

Anonymous

A solid C. IMO. Think on this - WHAT IS MY INCENTIVE TO BUY. For a NEW play then OK. But I would like to see a statistic on who buys Commander Precons - New or players playing more than 1 year. Here are my thoughts. 1. Themes were meh. Like you said - does adding a color really "add" to a theme. 2. Play experience. (Probably the saving grace) I can only talk about Aminatou and Saheeli. Both decks were torn down and built back up. (Sadly no pre con play). I really enjoyed them both. As Josh pointed out PW commanders are over powered and delays games. Brudiclad is great in the 99 as well. 3. New Toys - Do they add new design space, yes. Are they underwhelming. Yes. Wingrace Judgement - OK. But thats it. Go back and count how many times you talked about this card - match it to any other new card. 1 Card does not do it for me. And 4. Reprints - you guys hit it there. Not much more needs to be said. Except adding to the head scratch. I dont want to buy a deck with out value. I too am fortunate to have been playing for 18+ years. I have cards. So value means something - I dont want/need another sol ring or swords to plowshare. Another way I look at this is when I make my decks. When I buy a precon they all go in a binder with placement cards behind each card. I pull from the binders when I make decks. If I have pulled less than 25% - whats the point? It means I have more than enough reprints and the new cards are not that good. This set is shaping up to be that. I haven't even bought Jund and Bant because I know right now its been done and the value is not there. WHAT IS MY INCENTIVE TO BUY

Anonymous

Pretty much echoing how my entire play group felt, mostly in agreement with you guys. All of us ended up getting Aminatou since that was the only one that brought anything new to the table for us. Saheeli just felt like WoTC was being lazy...Daretti and Breya were already a thing and this deck shared a ton of cards with those, which made buying the deck feel pointless. Windgrace was a decent lands matter commander, but the deck missed obvious includes (and really, the three major land cards weren't event that expensive, Omnath, Titania and Gitrog could have easily been included). The whole lack of any decent reprints was god damn insulting given the increased price. And above all, it was insulting that WoTC raised the price stating that "they would be able to increase the power level" and then failed to do anything remotely like that. I like a lot of the new stuff...but what WoTC did was push my group towards buying cards on the secondary market instead of buying their products. Oh well. Good for CardKingdom eh? Hopefully they learn from this and give us better reprints next year...but I won't hold my breath.

Anonymous

My experience with fnm was the game ending in 6 turns due to infinite mana combos. It would have been nice to have something that was a little competitive. These decks have a lot of flavor and would be fun if I didn't play them at my LGS. I'm not looking for a deck that let's me win out of the box but something that had the tools to at least extend a game would have been great. My first experience with commander was that 6 turn game. I feel if WOTC wants to encourage commander game play to new players they should have come up with a precon that had some staying power in an actual commander game. I like the format, I just want to build one good commander deck so I'm buying c17 instead of c18 for the reprints and staples. Great video as always! I hope WOTC took notes!

Anonymous

I feel like you guys were really candid in this episode and I think both of your assessments were fair but spot on. I really dug this episode!