How Was Golden Age Training Different? Interview With the Legend Karuhat (public, 6 min) (Patreon)

Above is an interview with did with Karuhat this week, talking about how his training in the Golden Age was, and how it differed from what he sees in Thai gyms he travels around to today. He was the star of a small gym, Sor. Supawan, with he says about 20 fighters (and only 3 bags). The biggest differences, he points out, are that there was a lot of light sparring, and a great deal of shadow boxing and correction from sharp-eyed krus/padmen.

Lots of Sparring, Shadow Boxing & Correction

Karuhat was a small, extremely femeu fighter, and part of his personality is to joke about how he didn't like to work hard. He has often laughed about ditching the runs, and said that the reason why he became a femeu fighter was that he was too lazy to train Muay Khao (Karuhat was a Muay Khao fighter when he first came to Bangkok, something you can still see in his muay in how he stays in the pocket.) The story also was that for a brief time he trained at the very hardcore Dejrat gym in Bangkok, headed by stern Arjan Surat (in the Library, he's still like this!), but after a single day he "ran away". So, the view of his training needs to be seen in this light. There were indeed extremely harsh regimes of physical training, especially for Muay Khao fighters in the Golden Age. Fighters like Langsuan (you can view his training below) and Dieselnoi speak of just brutal, tearful runs, endless knees on the bag after everyone else had left training, and hours of grueling work. Petchdam, who we just filmed with, told us 14 rounds on the pads, almost exclusively devoted to knees, Samson was known for his very long runs, which matched his fight endurance. So, Karuhat's experiences in training are probably best seen at the edge of a spectrum. And, despite portraying himself as a lazy fighter, he's always busting out situps in between very long sparring rounds, even to this day, and is in very good shape, a sign of his character and work. In talking with other femeu fighters we've noticed that there just is a way of talking about work which places them above it, as if by natural grace, while Muay Khao fighters were grinders, and it was the work that they poured themselves into. (Thappaya, who trains his own Thai fighters for endurance today, jokes that his own son is "clever" in how he finds ways to evade getting tired, which is absolutely the intent of Thappaya's training regimen.) Gyms may have had very diverse training emphasis in the Golden Age, not all of them were like Sor. Supawan.

But you can see what Karuhat's gym was like in this very cool two minute news clip video of Sor Supawan Gym, watch it here. You can briefly see the shadow boxing when you aren't on a bag, and a little bit of Karuhat on pads.

watch the two minute video here

above, Sor. Supawan gym in 1989

The beautiful thing, and still somewhat of a mystery, is how did absolutely elite fighters, the greatest in the history of the sport, come out of such humble training conditions? The prominent role of shadow boxing, artful corrective shaping toward traditional aesthetics, and lots of "play" sparring (he says an hour) may help shed light on how fighters became so good. While the stories we have of Golden Age training often focus on how hard and rigorous it was, it may have been the flow of shadow boxing and lots of light sparring, along with the craft of watching, which made the difference.

Shadow Boxing and Correction

Putting aside the question of physical work, what Karuhat really sees as the huge difference in today's Thai gym training (and he spends much of his time in Thai gyms, with few westerners) is the absence of correction. His experience of training, especially on the pads, in shadow and on the bag, was one of correction. And the correction was always towards having more beautiful, clear weapons. This emphasis on clarity is contained in the negative "Muay Mu-a" (cloudy, indistinct, muddy) in Thai. I talk about Muay Mua in this Interview podcast:

watch or listen to my podcast on Muay Mua here  It's a really important concept in understanding Muay Thai correction.

From what we've seen this kind of correction isn't the kind of mechanical build up of  techniques from physical precision: Put your foot here, swing your arm at this angle, turn your hip over like this, that you might see in the West (or even in some Western oriented Thai gyms today). This kind of instruction can produce lots of tension & stress, which is counterproductive to Thai style which is geared toward ease and flow. Instead it's a kind of honing or shaping. Some old school krus we've filmed with used to walk around with a switch. For instance Sangtiennoi (bless him, he's passed away) would whack you on your heels and tell you to get on your toes for knees. With Dieselnoi, you get immense emphasis on Ruup, and the physical shape of the body, as well as ways of sharpening the proper knee technique, which delivers power. The key is that krus were something like sculptors, who were constantly shaping fighters, visually and in terms of timing "jangwa". They wanted clarity in the ring. To Karuhat, this is entirely missing in gyms today,, especially in pad work. In some sense the eyes of knowledgeable krus that can make these kinds of corrections may be or may already have aged out of training...and the culture has changed where constant correction of a low-status fighter no longer is the way of training. 

This brings us to the second thing he talks about: shadow boxing. He is insistent about just how much he shadow boxed. It was a LOT. If you weren't on the bag (there were only three), pads, sparring or clinching, you were shadow boxing. And shadow boxing was corrected. He says that fighters today don't even know how to shadow box (something Kevin and I have also noticed in how unfamiliar fighters seem with shadow movements when throwing just a few weapons during a walkout to the ring for televised shows). In his time, this was the first thing you needed to learn, and were not even allowed to hit the bag until you knew how to shadow box. This is probably the biggest physical deviation of training from today, and explains a secret to how fighters of the Golden Age attained such flow. Shadow boxing, and lots of play "len" sparring. Karuhat says his favorite training aspect was sparring, and he seemed to spar a great deal, perhaps for hours. As he told us at another time: "If I could trick my sparring partner who I face every day, I could trick anyone." When I train with Karuhat its basically one continuous sparring round for 20 minutes or so, when he calls "break", and then another one starts. The number of hours of lengthy, but still playful sparring probably helped produce that characteristic Karuhat relaxation, and his capacity to manage his energy. He's very economical when we spar at length. He's used to sparring marathons.

As far as shadow boxing, to Karuhat this was a skill. In filming sessions with legends, I find my shadow boxing almost always corrected right away. They want to see rhythm, timing, intelligent weapon choice. They want opponents pictured. They often want it slowed down, becoming more precise and intentional. They do NOT want Muay Mua. Even high level names of Muay Thai today would probably be said to have Muay Mua shadow boxing, under the Golden Age standard. For Karuhat, not being able to shadow box is like not being able to recite the alphabet. "I just don't get it," he says, mystified that fighters don't know how to do this. We have an entire hour with Yodkhupnon in the Library teaching his own version of shadow boxing (posted below), which may be unique. Yodkhunpon is also very insistent that long hours of shadow boxing are essential (he says 20 minutes per session). In his case, this was also borne of not having equipment at the gym he started at in the provinces, but he credits it with shaping his flow.

#104 Yodkhunpon Sittraipum 4 - The Art of Shadowboxing (64 min) watch it here

Some have said this is one of the favorite sessions in all the Library. It's very rare to get detailed instruction and advice on How to Shadowbox, let alone from a great fighter of the past. This is a FULL hour of how to shadowbox, learn with me as I learn from The Elbow Hunter of 100 Stitches Yodkhunpon, the greatest Elbow Fighter in Thai history.

learn Yodkhunpon's shadow boxing here

Water Over Stone

In talking with Karuhat outside of the interview a few more details came out. There is in Golden Age stories of training something we call "water over the stone", the sense that there is a lot of "len" (play) in sparring, clinch & in shadow, and that these hours end up smoothing movement, and allowing fighters to carve their own personal style. The entire gym may have worked like a metronome of sparring and shadow boxing, with this free work also constantly being shaped by kru correction. At other times when Karuhat has talked about his training, he's always emphasized how much sparring there was (his favorite). Sometimes, when we think about the modernization of the sport, we do not realize how much of the sport came out of its simplicity. There was lots and lots of shadow boxing, in part, because there wasn't a lot of equipment. Older fighters talk about just how repetitive and monotonous training was, and this capacity for enduring boredom, shadow boxing for hours is something many would not incorporate in today's training. (Karuhat when he teaches rarely holds pads when he teaches. Instead, his body is used as a padman would use pads to guide the organization of strikes, understanding of range, etc. Just long, long rounds of sparring and flow.)

What Correction Was Like

As mentioned, the correction Karuhat is talking about is likely different than "teaching", per se. It isn't "instruction", in that it likely wasn't conceptual. It was more like the potter at the wheel, pushing more here, pulling more here, applying pressure and direction to produce the kind of clarity and shapes that was necessary at the highest level of the sport. Like with skilled potters, shaping the clay was a craft of its own. If you want to dig into the kinds of correction that may have been offered, look at these Muay Thai Library sessions with corrective Krus from the Golden Age. Pay attention to how it is that they correct, what it is they correct, and how correction connects to the training itself.

#90 Arjan Surat 2 - His Old School Tough & Defensive Style (94 min) watch it here

A legend of Bangkok and coach of the Thai National Team, Arjan Surat has a toughened, defense oriented, forward style. In this session he builds it from the ground up, starting with his old school arm swing on the kick (no swing, instead using it to simultaneously block), emphasizing balance and solid framing. Watch and learn!

#8 Sangtiennoi Sor Rungroj - Advanced Clinch (52 min) watch it here

The Golden Age Lumpinee and Rajadamnern Champion, a legendary Muay Khao fighter who fought all the greats instructs on the finer points of clinch technique. Small differences that make big differences. Advanced tips on the swim-in and turn, and the importance of going from long distance techniques to short distance grab and lock.

#76 Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn 4 - How to Fight Tall (69 min) watch it here

There several sessions with the King of Knees in the Muay Thai Library, this is the fourth, but this is the first one where he gets the chance to teach a tall, long fighter like he was. If you are a tall fighter this is the session you don't want to miss. He is arguably the GOAT, and in this session, he unfolds his entire fighting system of knee fighting pressure and distance control.

#30 Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn 1 - Muay Khao Craft  (42 min) watch it here

The greatest knee fighter who ever lived not only shares his secrets in ring tactics - how to draw out your opponent and then ultimately hem them in - and various closing and tripping techniques, he also shows his amazing heart. He's a Legend among Legends, the fighter without equal in the history of the sport.

#113 Arjan Yai Muangsupan - Golden Age Forms & Dynamics (119 min) watch it here

Arjan Yai gives a keyhole into basic Golden Age forms of Muay Thai that have not all been preserved over time. He was a padman and trainer in the famed Sor. Ploenjit gym when the great Kaensak was Fighter of Year twice. He still trains stadium Muay Thai fighters. In this session, he starts from the ground up in a beautiful documentation.

#69 Sagat Petchyindee 4 - Muay Maat Tigers & Snakes (67 min) watch it here

Sagat details his ferocious, hands-heavy style in this session, teaching perfect balance and very aggressive spacing with toal efficiency of movement. The secrets to his power, how everything flows out of his core, and his organized stance are on full display. Nobody like him.

#89 Arjan Pipa JockyGym - The Roots of Femeu (77 min) watch it here

Arajan Pipa was the guiding force in the famed Jocky Gym, which produced elite GOAT-like fighters like Saenchai, Somrak, Sillapathai and so many others. It's a real pleasure to have him in the Library showing his philosophy guided around the teep, off-balances, and taking angles. One of the true Masters.

#37 Kongtoranee Payakaroon - Power In The Hands (89 min) watch it here

5x Lumpinee Champion, 2x Fighter of the Year, Kongtoranee teaches the fundamental grounding of strikes that made him one of the most feared heavy-handed fighters in Thailand. Such economy of movement expresses the true beauty in his style, quite different than - but no less admirable - that of his young brother Samart.

#82 Chanchai Sor. Tummarungsri - The King of Teeps (54 min) watch it here

Perhaps in all the Library there is no session more devoted to, and detailed in, the of the art of the teep. Chanchai is a Golden Age legend known for his undefeatable teep, and clearly has spent many years dissecting all the small parts that make his teep so incredible, so students can learn it for themselves. Dive into the art of the teep in this one!

Muay Khao Training

For an in depth view of what Muay Khao training was like in the Golden Age take a look at our session with the legend Langusuan:

#45 Langsuan Panyutapum - Monster Muay Khao Training (66 min) watch it here

One of the greatest knee fighters who ever fought, 1987 Fighter of the Year Langsuan shows how an elite Muay Khao fighter of his day trained. This session is powerful on the basics that elevate the body and mind, at high repetition, allowing the relentless, pressing style that made Langsuan the fighter nobody wanted to fight.

Karuhat's Sessions: Study The Master

here is a link collection of all our documentation of the muay of Karuhat