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Muay Thai Bones Podcast - #15 (Apple & Android) Fight Stacks, Heart Rate & Who Legends Respect, Covid-19 and the Future of Muay Thai, Buddhistic Yoniso (2 hrs, 54 min) (Patreon)

Published:
2020-03-28 08:17:05
Edited:
2020-03-28 08:43:51
Imported:
2021-08

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Content

Here is the much awaited Episode 15 of Muay Thai Bones. We film these usually while we are driving across country and having our epic conversations, but a change in Sylvie's fight locations, and then the Covid-19 lockdown gave us a bit of drought on Muay Thai Bones podcasts, but we really missed doing them, and plan to do them more frequently. We may have to not just have them in car rides. The good thing is that the audio is much better without road rumble, so all our patrons get a better audio experience. This one is done from our hotel back balcony while we've been in self-isolation. The first hour of the podcast is talking about how Covid-19 is likely impacting and even threatening the very fabric of Muay Thai in Thailand. The rest of the podcast is just straight up, hardcore Muay Thai Bones, diving in deep on big, seldom-discussed dimensions of Muay Thai. Thank you everyone for supporting and making all this content happen!

Apple & Android: Read my quick article to see how to add Muay Thai Bones podcast to Apple Podcasts or other subscription services. It's easy to do!  Just grab your personal and exclusive RSS link. 

You can see all the Muay Thai Bones episodes on Patreon here.

So listen to Muay Thai Bones on audio (above), or if you can also hang out with us and  watch this episode on YouTube video (below)

Watch the full episode 15 of Muay Thai Bones here 


 episode 15 

1. The fate of Muay Thai in Thailand (Covid-19], the fate of gyms

2. Yoniso - the Buddhistic concept applied to Muay Thai 

3. Heartrate and skill level 

4. Skill stacks and fighting out of "prison" 

5. Muay Thai doesn't exist anymore 

6. Legends and their Top 5 Greatest lists 

 

Reading Notes for the podcast - things referenced, rabbit holes to go down

The 8limbsus.com post:

No Such Thing as Tough – Psycho-Physio Plateaus in Fight Stress


The Chamuakpet vs Sangtiennoi Watch With Me

watch this watch with me here on YouTube 


Kevin's Original Article on Fight Stacks on 8limbsus.com

a correction, the theory came from Greg Jackson, not Winklejohn

 Lessons from Rousey: Fight Stacks and Sylvie’s Muay Thai Clinch Game 


Day With Hippy Singmanee and Dieselnoi w/ Commentary - Legends at Petchrungruang Gym

watch my account of when Hippy visited the gym here 


The Top 5 Greatest Muay Thai Fighters as Picked By Legends

watch the YouTube playlist here 


Andy Thomson Teaching His "Tamachat" Version of Muay Thai

watch the session here 


The Samart Payakaroon Muay Thai Library Session

watch it here as a patron 


Remember, you can browse the entire Muay Thai Library sessions through this table of contents here:

Table of Contents 


Files

Comments

Shell

Awesome as always, but I think this is my fave so far. Some Honest beautiful moments 🙏🏼

Pop Praditbatuga

In furtherance of the discussion on the death of Muay Thai as we knew it, here’s my two-cent. You also briefly touched on the mafia-like influence on fights in those days. This is a long comment, but it follows from your podcast discussion, which I enjoyed. Topic of Discussion: Dark Side of Society's Influence on Golden Era Muay Thai and Why That Muay Thai May Be Dead Golden Era Muay Thai is often credited with having the best Muay Thai fighters, and the two stadiums where the fights took place had their legendary status further solidified during that time. Not often mentioned is the idea that two elements from the darker side of society may have contributed to this: (1) the godfathers' control of large promotions, and (2) gambling. Not many fighters would even talk about these elements in a positive light, and in fact there were definitive negative results from these elements. I’m not saying it was good for the fighters individually. I'm not saying it should be praised. Politically correct or not, I argue that it may just have created conditions conducive to producing the best fighters ever, as discussed hereinafter. THE GODFATHERS AND OTHER POWERFUL-NETWORK PROMOTERS First, the few godfathers controlled the biggest promotions. Regardless of how angelic the gyms and the fighters were, the promotions they fought in were fueled by “godfather money.” Through established powerful networks (or “ittipol"), which is common in Southeast Asia, they channeled their events into two main stadiums: Lumpinee Stadium and Rajadamnern Stadium. Each godfather wanted to have the best fighters under their promotion, and wanted the best fights under their promotions. This was important because the matches of the best versus the best were often centralized; thus, centralizing the championship. Furthermore, the promotions themselves were further followed and legitimized by having big-name fights. You have promoters like the notorious late Klaew Thanikul promote some of the biggest-name fights. I mean you can’t beat fights like “Dieselnoi vs. Samart.” Even non-godfather promotions like One Songchai relied on an established network with powerful people. When these big-name fights happen mainly at Lumpinee and Rajadamnern, two things happen. The best and the best-upcoming fighters knew exactly where to fight and who to fight. Gyms wanted to produce the best fighters for these big events, which were profitable for their fighters and the gym. When you have the best fighting the best in organized events, techniques get to an unbelievable level, and gyms pushed that. Furthermore, the fighters matter as much as the fight. You say “Lumpinee Champ,” and people knew who they were. They knew Coban, they knew Dieselnoi, they knew Samart, etc. Winning the championship in a pool like that was truly prestigious. In contrast, today’s entertainment Muay Thai promotes the fight more than the fighters. People leaving an event could barely tell you whom the fighters were. It’s usually the “Thai Guy” vs “The Guy from [a country other than Thailand].” They just knew the fights were fast-paced and action-packed. There are also so many organizations throughout the world today that it’s hard to tell who the best are. The champions are diluted throughout many organizations all over the place. In turn, the prestige is also diluted. We have no idea if the best will ever face the best. In the few events where the fighters are promoted in entertainment Muay Thai, such as in the event Thai Fight, the match-ups were not like Lumpinee of the past. It’s set to favor a certain outcome for ratings. We saw what it was like when a superstar like Saenchai used to fight Yodwicha and Namsaknoi at Lumpinee, and we see what it’s like when he fights in Thai Fight today (granted he is older now and is still beyond amazing). Just my point about how the opponents and techniques had to be at another level at Lumpinee, especially during the Golden Era. THE GAMBLERS Sitting at Lumpinee Stadium during the Golden Era, one could see a packed crowd with a large percentage of gamblers raising their hands to accept and offer different odds throughout the rounds. A big-time gambler is often an expert at detecting the fighters’ “Roop,” “Ning", “Oht-ton," “Fimeu," etc. They will often determine their odds from that detection. Odds can change from round to round, and sometimes a gambler can pick an underdog who will make a profitable comeback. Gambling is highly addictive. Cities like Las Vegas were raised on that premise. Lumpinee and Rajadamnern of the past were no exception. Big fights and big names drew big crowds of gamblers, which meant big profitable crowds in general. The Nak Muay-Lan ("or million-baht fighter”) and Nak Muay-San (or “hundred-thousand baht fighter”) earned a large part of their values from the crowds they drew. It’s a profitable cycle between the godfather-driven large promotions and the large crowds the promotions drew from the gamblers. Since gamblers were relatively knowledgeable audience, the “Roop" and "Fimeu" exhibited by Golden Era fighters were exceptional. And the promoters who always wanted the best under their promotion continuously drew match-ups that would entice these knowledgeable gambling-driven crowds. Many of these gamblers were ex-fighters themselves (some quite famous). In contrast, in today’s entertainment Muay Thai, where gambling is often not allowed due to political correctness, legal issues, etc., the crowds are less knowledgeable. “Roop” does not entertain them. They are entertained by action, action, action. Muay Bouk and Muay Mat takes the place of Muay Fimeu, Muay Toy Lang (“backward-moving Muay”), and Muay Khao (as clinching is often not understood by theses audience, and is therefore shortened in order to push faster punching and kicking action). Today’s Muay Thai relies on global ratings for profit. The goal is to entertain with fast action and have as many champions from as many countries as possible. Audiences love to watch champions from their country, which is not surprising. It’s a different formula than the Golden Era godfather-gambler days. For the abovementioned reasons, Golden Era Muay Thai may be dead.

Pop Praditbatuga

As a supplement to my previous long post, there is a good classic marketing book called “POSITIONING – The Battle for Your Mind, by Al Ries and Jack Trout.” Although analyzed in greater details in the book, “Positioning" is when a brand won its position in the customers' mind as "#1, #2, etc.”, and is subsequently allowed to carry a life of its own. For example, in my generation “Xerox” was used synonymously with “photocopy.” This is due to Xerox successfully "positioning” its place in the customers’ mind as the top photocopying-equipment company. It is then accepted by subsequent generation(s) without question until something else takes its place. After being “positioned” as the “Mecca of Muay Thai,” Lumpinee and Rajadamnern Stadium were able to continue with that prestige and carry on with or without some of the darker elements of society. The problem today is that the generation that bought into that “position" is now old, and the younger generation may already have something else in their mind as “Muay Thai."