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Episode 115: Hail the New Dawn (Patreon)

Published:
2020-11-10 04:57:51
Edited:
2021-09-23 22:22:07
Imported:
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Content

We discuss the weird aura around the election, the strange rituals of the Amerikan gangster state and what losing and winning look like.

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Comments

^_^

I wouldn’t know!

S

Oraleeee, let's hear it!!

Bebe

pain ❤️❤️❤️

phil m.

WE SHOULD ALL ROT IN HELL

HATERSLAYER420

thank fucking god i was starting to withdrawl

Luke Fallon

Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray to Joe my soul to keep

Dan Z

sleepy Joe that's so fuh-nee

CM

BACK WITH A BANG NOW BACK WITH A GANG NOW

danny

that was an all time intro one for the ages

Jeremy Sauceman
>>47447603

oh he'll keep your soul alright, i don't think there's ever been any doubt present in that notion. for he HUNGERS

William Pepper

I am humbly requesting that we remove the pay wall on this episode so I can send it to every brainwashed dumb dumb in my life. Pls consider

Andrew

Take back my wife song😤👏✊🏾

Adam Brosnan

Could Biden be the worse Trump that we are all anticipating? Can’t see the forest for the trees type of thing

Kai Chalmers

Thanks for this episode guys 🙏. It's really grounding to listen to this type of discussion after the past few days of crazy-making.

Lilith

Thank you so much guys. I really needed to hear my despair and feeling's of utter defeat (from the left) expressed from the left. Thank you for this episode.

Sam Bidmead

BRACE AND LIZ! PLEASE DO AN EPISODE ON FUCKING ERIC WEINSTEIN. I JUST LISTENED TO HIS PODCAST WHERE HE PROMOTES SEEKING ARRANGEMENTS AS THE ANSWER TO COLLEGE DEBT. ITS SOO FUCKED UP!!!!

cadycaughtem

I love it when Liz rants

Conner Plunkett

I know U guys r not doomers, but I feel like I am slowly getting there. Just fleas on the back of a terrible beast utterly incapable of doing much of anything to kill it or even change its course. Anyways, good episode thank u. Hopefully we will be able to devise a new weapon

J P 3

Back in late February - early March there was a big fight between two private equity firms over control of Twitter. With a lot of these things, I think there was maybe initially a failure to really appreciate the degree to which these new platforms could be used to influence public opinion. As with a lot of this stuff, I think it's double-edged. With both Corbyn, Sanders, and to some degree Trump, I doubt that the breakthroughs (or near breakthroughs) would have happened without the platforms. Of course, that door is now closed, but the only way that it remains closed is if the whole system is able to actually relegitimize itself. If it doesn't deliver the goods, and can only rule through greater coercion, how does that happen? If it does deliver the goods, there isn't a legitimacy crisis.

Ellie Voyyd ⚧️

thanks for verbally beating the shit out of me after i got all optimistic after the new Justice Democrats got elected. i needed it

D
>>47450603

My first comment, here to say the same

uya

i do thibk its good you made an episode abt the election bc now i have something to show my normie conspiracy leaning friends

luis
>>47453960

That is just ahistorical, everything will be toppled with the peoples effort as always. Dont think of linear time. Think eternally. We won already

luis
>>47454558

Hell nah. The plantation must be abolished. Indigenous sovereignty and land back Now

beehold
>>47454558

No, I support the collapse of the US empire, a third party isn't gonna accomplish that

Daniel Collins

30 minutes before the end of the ep: We gotta wrap this up. lol

Jamie (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-23 00:44:46 Holy fuck, thank you. It’s been incredibly maddening watching family & friends who supported Bernie and hated Biden in the primaries, correctly pointing out how horrible he has been historically and currently, cheering on his election. How is it possible to have such a disconnect in such a short time?? In particular the shit about, “celebrate today, the work starts tomorrow” is insanity. There’s no work you can do with a Biden presidency. They’re the enemy, and you knew that like 6 months ago.
2020-11-10 13:12:26 Holy fuck, thank you. It’s been incredibly maddening watching family & friends who supported Bernie and hated Biden in the primaries, correctly pointing out how horrible he has been historically and currently, cheering on his election. How is it possible to have such a disconnect in such a short time?? In particular the shit about, “celebrate today, the work starts tomorrow” is insanity. There’s no work you can do with a Biden presidency. They’re the enemy, and you knew that like 6 months ago.

Holy fuck, thank you. It’s been incredibly maddening watching family & friends who supported Bernie and hated Biden in the primaries, correctly pointing out how horrible he has been historically and currently, cheering on his election. How is it possible to have such a disconnect in such a short time?? In particular the shit about, “celebrate today, the work starts tomorrow” is insanity. There’s no work you can do with a Biden presidency. They’re the enemy, and you knew that like 6 months ago.

Doug Cartel

it took me less than 5 minutes to fill out a mail-in ballot and I left the president option last, and before I stuck the ballot in the envelope I just said "fuck it" and scribbled for biden. That to me is the total relationship the modern left has to this entire debacle, and if you put in any more effort than that then sorry, you're a rube. That said, all the shaming people for celebrating only makes sense to me if you think there's an actual left in America, and if you know anything about the history of the worker's rights movement *at all* then you would know that there is no left in America.it's corporatists vs revanchists and that's it. yes it all sucks but also leftists are so small and ineffectual a group that they have about as much impact on politics as some dumbshit on twitter, so I don't really see the point of getting mad at anyone At least, that's the way it sounded to me. You're getting mad at sports and have as much control over it. What I think leftists ought to do is start brainstorming ways to take back social time, at least in the immediate term. im thinking really small though.

Chas.

Thank you for helping me feel less alone in this world

Will Watson

these past two episodes have been incredible guys really great stuff 👍🏼

Al W

Totally resonating with Liz's rant. Biden is dodgy and creepy af while Kamala only cares about herself and not about women/POCs she pretends to represent. And any expressing any disagreement within the left against these two or anything else really is met with shutdowns

PrinceVocalFry

If all the election shenanigans are simply part of the normal run of partisan games, and therefore serving to bolster the parties as state apparatuses, then why not just ignore it to? If the whole thing is capitalist spectacle, why do you care if there is election fraud? This gets to the essential contradiction of doing a Marxist true crime show. it's a clever premise that is able to carry so many topics for you. But it seems like whenever you guys talk about elections, you fall into moralizing contrarian liberalism. If an election matters, say so. But don't spend minutes ranting about this shit just to say you're above it. Who cares how enlightened you are?

Jonathan Smith

thank you for affirming my overwhelming sense of dread

the baron

Y'all need to link with Chapo for some table top action great off the dome riff about the 40s

Tomas

You cannot be nihilistic if you care about making the world better

Liam Halvorsen

Can Anyone elaborate on how the occupy premise was incorrect? Not saying I think it is correct but I was waiting for them to expand on their critique of the whole 99% 1% and they just didn’t

Mason Kuzmich
>>47470754

basically the idea that it's 99% of people vs 1% of people is simply untrue those who benefit from and are supportive of the broader wealth and power structures in this country make up a far greater portion than 1%, and pretending that a movement against those structures has such overwhelming support is wishful thinking at best. it doesn't explore how those structures are supported, and it doesn't give rise to any understanding of what actually needs to be done to oppose those structures. it's cute sloganeering but not much more, and believing the slogan led to people thinking they could find allies anywhere outside the billionaires - hence the "draft warren" crap and the willingness to partner with and ultimately be co-opted by the democrats in general, despite some (ultimately ineffective) criticism of the right wing elements of the party.

Matt

Liz - fucking crystal clear analysis at the end. Nice!

Mark Owen

Power, Slaughter, Flournoy, other Rice - so much military/foreign policy gynergy

Marty DeNicolo

The last third of this episode was excellent. Thanks for helping me feel a bit less crazy for getting bummed out by the post election joy party.

Demetri B.

im confused if TA makes $800,000 a year why does brace work in a factory?

BX

top 3 cold opens, did he say 'south african farm murder'? lmao also BELDEN PROGRAM

Garrett Collins

Please release this as a free ep. You said so eloquently what I have been thinking and feeling, and I think more people need to hear this.

Sami James (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-23 00:44:39 Thank you, D. As far as conspiracy theories go, I really struggle with whether or not Liz is just a CIA plant herself. The only thing that makes me waiver is that it's so painfully obvious. I'm still waiting for ANY solutions from them, any ideas, any actual attempts to organize on her part & I've yet to see anything other than her looking down her nose and the occasional spicy snark on Twitter. I'd really like to know if Liz gives a shit about whether or not a woman can have an abortion in the US bc I for one - if I am going to be forced to live in this Capitalists hellscape- would prefer to be given at least the CHOICE to evict anyone living in my uterus rent free if I so choose. "I want you to think about where we got here." Yes, Liz. We are. I have been immersed in leftist politics since I was fucking 17 years old, I've worked on organizing in WV with some scary ass motherfuckers. What have you done other than bitch & moan & roll your eyes at anyone who dares to sigh in relief bc things MIGHT be SLIGHTLY better in terms of yes, identity politics issues like race & gender - even if only in superficial ways. FFS it's still SOMETHING. I am the first person to say identity politics is missing the point - for the MOST part, but it's undeniable that there are issues that press on members of the working class even harder based on race & sex. I have yet to hear Liz offer much in the way of prescriptive ideas. It's all snobbery with her which makes her quip about Kamala's lack of charm even more irritating since she is majorly deficient in the charm department herself. Liz is constantly easier on the extreme right than the center left with Q being a prime case in point on top of her "hunch" that there was voter fraud. I search my brain for some answer as to why she is like this & nothing I come up with makes any sense. I know that I am just about done giving my money to this person who clearly fucking hates women & I'm over her allegiance to traditional "I don't LIKE video games, I'm just a GIRL" vibes - & she just keeps cementing this with comments like "there's just no softness to her." Who TF says there has to be? Maybe she doesn't want to be "soft" & JFC when women do convey softness it's interpreted as weakness any fucking way. Yes Biden is a fucking living corpse with dentures sewn into his skull, yes Kamala is neolib, *fuck you I got mine" Cop & yes the US is a failed State & as Brace said we are nothing more than a dictatorship of the rich but as long as that's what we are I'd prefer Biden & Harris to Trump if those are my only options. One last thing- miss me with the portrayal of Trump as a populist bc he did just as much if not more than any other President in recent memory to consolidate power behind Capital. Liz you get dragged bc you show yourself time & again to flirt with the right being somehow "better," & you don't act like a comrade - you act like a sniping, smarmy, snarking, JUDGEMENTAL asshole. Maybe do better or don't but I'm sick of subsidizing your bs, esp when you were just mere months ago literally making fun of the HANDBAG a woman chose to carry?!? Are you fucking kidding me? How do you call yourself a socialist with takes like that??? There are better leftists who don't judge without any action or suggestion - too bad Brace doesn't leave your ass for someone less awful but my "hunch" is it will never happen since you've known each other so long. Maybe he remembers a less grating version of you that I wish you'd give your listeners a glimpse of now & then. Buh-byeeeee
2020-11-10 18:17:54 Thank you, D. As far as conspiracy theories go, I really struggle with whether or not Liz is just a CIA plant herself. The only thing that makes me waiver is that it's so painfully obvious. I'm still waiting for ANY solutions from them, any ideas, any actual attempts to organize on her part & I've yet to see anything other than her looking down her nose and the occasional spicy snark on Twitter. I'd really like to know if Liz gives a shit about whether or not a woman can have an abortion in the US bc I for one - if I am going to be forced to live in this Capitalists hellscape- would prefer to be given at least the CHOICE to evict anyone living in my uterus rent free if I so choose. "I want you to think about where we got here." Yes, Liz. We are. I have been immersed in leftist politics since I was fucking 17 years old, I've worked on organizing in WV with some scary ass motherfuckers. What have you done other than bitch & moan & roll your eyes at anyone who dares to sigh in relief bc things MIGHT be SLIGHTLY better in terms of yes, identity politics issues like race & gender - even if only in superficial ways. FFS it's still SOMETHING. I am the first person to say identity politics is missing the point - for the MOST part, but it's undeniable that there are issues that press on members of the working class even harder based on race & sex. I have yet to hear Liz offer much in the way of prescriptive ideas. It's all snobbery with her which makes her quip about Kamala's lack of charm even more irritating since she is majorly deficient in the charm department herself. Liz is constantly easier on the extreme right than the center left with Q being a prime case in point on top of her "hunch" that there was voter fraud. I search my brain for some answer as to why she is like this & nothing I come up with makes any sense. I know that I am just about done giving my money to this person who clearly fucking hates women & I'm over her allegiance to traditional "I don't LIKE video games, I'm just a GIRL" vibes - & she just keeps cementing this with comments like "there's just no softness to her." Who TF says there has to be? Maybe she doesn't want to be "soft" & JFC when women do convey softness it's interpreted as weakness any fucking way. Yes Biden is a fucking living corpse with dentures sewn into his skull, yes Kamala is neolib, *fuck you I got mine" Cop & yes the US is a failed State & as Brace said we are nothing more than a dictatorship of the rich but as long as that's what we are I'd prefer Biden & Harris to Trump if those are my only options. One last thing- miss me with the portrayal of Trump as a populist bc he did just as much if not more than any other President in recent memory to consolidate power behind Capital. Liz you get dragged bc you show yourself time & again to flirt with the right being somehow "better," & you don't act like a comrade - you act like a sniping, smarmy, snarking, JUDGEMENTAL asshole. Maybe do better or don't but I'm sick of subsidizing your bs, esp when you were just mere months ago literally making fun of the HANDBAG a woman chose to carry?!? Are you fucking kidding me? How do you call yourself a socialist with takes like that??? There are better leftists who don't judge without any action or suggestion - too bad Brace doesn't leave your ass for someone less awful but my "hunch" is it will never happen since you've known each other so long. Maybe he remembers a less grating version of you that I wish you'd give your listeners a glimpse of now & then. Buh-byeeeee

Thank you, D. As far as conspiracy theories go, I really struggle with whether or not Liz is just a CIA plant herself. The only thing that makes me waiver is that it's so painfully obvious. I'm still waiting for ANY solutions from them, any ideas, any actual attempts to organize on her part & I've yet to see anything other than her looking down her nose and the occasional spicy snark on Twitter. I'd really like to know if Liz gives a shit about whether or not a woman can have an abortion in the US bc I for one - if I am going to be forced to live in this Capitalists hellscape- would prefer to be given at least the CHOICE to evict anyone living in my uterus rent free if I so choose. "I want you to think about where we got here." Yes, Liz. We are. I have been immersed in leftist politics since I was fucking 17 years old, I've worked on organizing in WV with some scary ass motherfuckers. What have you done other than bitch & moan & roll your eyes at anyone who dares to sigh in relief bc things MIGHT be SLIGHTLY better in terms of yes, identity politics issues like race & gender - even if only in superficial ways. FFS it's still SOMETHING. I am the first person to say identity politics is missing the point - for the MOST part, but it's undeniable that there are issues that press on members of the working class even harder based on race & sex. I have yet to hear Liz offer much in the way of prescriptive ideas. It's all snobbery with her which makes her quip about Kamala's lack of charm even more irritating since she is majorly deficient in the charm department herself. Liz is constantly easier on the extreme right than the center left with Q being a prime case in point on top of her "hunch" that there was voter fraud. I search my brain for some answer as to why she is like this & nothing I come up with makes any sense. I know that I am just about done giving my money to this person who clearly fucking hates women & I'm over her allegiance to traditional "I don't LIKE video games, I'm just a GIRL" vibes - & she just keeps cementing this with comments like "there's just no softness to her." Who TF says there has to be? Maybe she doesn't want to be "soft" & JFC when women do convey softness it's interpreted as weakness any fucking way. Yes Biden is a fucking living corpse with dentures sewn into his skull, yes Kamala is neolib, *fuck you I got mine" Cop & yes the US is a failed State & as Brace said we are nothing more than a dictatorship of the rich but as long as that's what we are I'd prefer Biden & Harris to Trump if those are my only options. One last thing- miss me with the portrayal of Trump as a populist bc he did just as much if not more than any other President in recent memory to consolidate power behind Capital. Liz you get dragged bc you show yourself time & again to flirt with the right being somehow "better," & you don't act like a comrade - you act like a sniping, smarmy, snarking, JUDGEMENTAL asshole. Maybe do better or don't but I'm sick of subsidizing your bs, esp when you were just mere months ago literally making fun of the HANDBAG a woman chose to carry?!? Are you fucking kidding me? How do you call yourself a socialist with takes like that??? There are better leftists who don't judge without any action or suggestion - too bad Brace doesn't leave your ass for someone less awful but my "hunch" is it will never happen since you've known each other so long. Maybe he remembers a less grating version of you that I wish you'd give your listeners a glimpse of now & then. Buh-byeeeee

Leilani Doneux

Can Liz and/or YC drop the polling data she’s talking about around 30:00 that felt fishy? Would love to know the counties you’re talking about specifically. I’ve had the gut feeling, too, but I wanna be able to cite something.

RiotingPacifist
>>47454558

Within electoral politics, I back anything that is going to help bring about electoral reform, until there is electoral reform there isn't much point in voting for 3rd parties anyway.

William Pepper
>>47477005

I read this in the voice of that tik tok girl that was like “THERES A FASCIST IN THE WHITE HOUSE. OKAY CHAMP?!? BUCKKOO?!” Lol

Ed

"That kind of work is not the work that gets you jobs at NGOs" 100% correct

Felicia

I have been feeling profound cognitive dissonance seeing leftists celebrating Biden. Even framing it as a celebration of Trump leaving office... Celebrating Trump leaving office is like throwing a party when you get moved from one jail cell to another. Wtf. It makes me feel so profoundly alone because all I feel is beaten down. I appreciate you guys bc there is so little else to hang on to when, like you say, we're being gaslit in these unbelievable and mentally destabilizing ways. Anyway, thanks for this episode and for making me feel less alone in my nihilism. Ps Liz rants are always good

Emmanuel Arce
>>47470754

While I agree that there a millions of people among the 99% who support the current neoliberal structure I also feel they do so because they don’t realize how broad wealth redistribution would actually benefit them as well. The whole 99/1 framing is faulty because it isn’t the 1% that truly benefits from the system as is but the .001%. The PMC or upper middle class or however you want to define them on the left side of the spectrum appear to be collectively under the illusion that supporting broad wealth redistribution is something they should do because it helps out the poors. Something they support only because they are willing to sacrifice themselves because they are “good” people. That’s what allows them to flatten the distinctions between politicians like Warren and Sanders. They should have supported Sanders out of naked self interest. If I were a computer programmer or an architect or a dentist I would much rather be one in Germany or Denmark than here. My taxes would be higher but a whole host of things would redound to my own material benefit in return. I wouldn’t have to worry about long term care for one of my parents resulting in the liquidation of their assets to pay a nursing home conglomerate as just one of many many examples. I feel that a simple MAS style redistributive message could work politically but it would have to be presented in a way so that people not in the working class can understand how it would benefit them. There are a lot of barriers of course which has led to our crushing defeat and to the strengthening of the neoliberal order which I completely agree with Liz has been the main result of the last ten years. in addition to ineffective political messaging regarding the benefits of wealth redistribution. People in this country still seem to feel that government run programs are by their nature ineffective I think one of the things that keeps universal healthcare from being supported by an even broader group of Americans is this belief. Also the population of this country seems to feel great about the economy as long as they can work and see a small uptick in wages. I remember seeing polling that seemed to indicated that for most of the Trump voters in 2016 the “greatness” they wanted America to “get back to” was the late 1990s. So there is disconnect on the one hand they rightfully blamed HRC (through her husband) for NAFTA on the other they looked back nostalgically and yearned for a time that existed years after the trade deal was ratified. Same with this last election. The Trump years saw an decrease in unemployment and an increase in wages and that’s all it took for millions and millions of Americans to be happy AF about the economy. Obviously from our perspective that seems strange since these jobs are often precarious and now many don’t even come with benefits but constitute gig employment but nevertheless that’s all it took. It’s hard to sell people on a restructuring of the economic system when they personally feel it’s working better for them than before. We have advantages here that other countries don’t have. As much as European liberal democracies have watered down their own social safety nets in the service of neoliberalism it still pales in comparison to what we have done here. I don’t know if “socialism” like the kind I would personally prefer could be sold to the American people effectively but I do feel that regulation over the certain industries (like healthcare) and going back to a 1960 tax structure could be sold to many many more people if instead of trying to convince them on moral grounds we showed them how their own lives might improve.

Ian

Sharing the feelings of dismay. Seeing Biden's cabinet filling with CFR cronies from the Obama and Bush days is so disheartening. Don't get me started on all the cheering as if Biden's/Harris' proven track record never happened.

John S

Great episode, but i just don't see the problem as being a lack of 'honest accounting' of the situation, or how we got here, it's the real foreclsoure of avenues to do anything that moves the needle in any meaningful material way. It's not wrong turns, it's no turns. Occupy was just the first great demonstration that you could make a fairly well-organized and (relatively) long-term symbolic gesture that amounted to nothing, that the state just completely shook off, not only the physical occupations but controlling the narrative of what they were about and why, and consequently the removal of any pressure for the political apparatus to do anything meaningful. The same story is playing out with BLM, in that a majority of the country support the putative demands of the movement in a general sense, but a good portion of that same majority thinks 'defund the police' is too spicy a slogan. And there's no material consequence to the contradiction, it just plays itself out in the spheres of political discourse until the next thing comes along. There's good reason to be a doomer.

TrueAnonPod
>>47460649

Whenever I hear Liz say it’s gonna be a short one I know I’m gonna have to talk for six hohrs

Dan Hunter

What was the Mao piece Brace recommended at the end?

Re_Frank

When was the phrase "If you didn't vote, you can't complain" come into common usage? When and where and who popularized this?

Sarah Rea
>>47477005

Whaaaaaaaaaa???? 🤨 I love telling other people that I am the true, shiniest and purest leftist jem that will guide our heroes to salvation.

TrueAnonPod
>>47482655

“Where Do Correct Ideas Come From?” https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-9/mswv9_01.htm

wendy sneeze

go off liz, this is the most succinct analysis of this whole election cycle and the neoliberal takeover of the basic theoretical foundations of leftist politics i have heard. y’all are the best.

Re_Frank

Building off what Liz was saying, taking account of what the world really is being overshadowed by what we want it to be is part of this terrible parasite of morality politics. Morality in political analysis, imo, is coming from older Dems who even voted for Bernie, got behind Biden, and now think we can push him left. I want that, and see tactics, but I don't think it's going to happen very easily. Those in power pollute what's possible politically and then everyone agrees. The chicken or the egg dilemma with what's possible. Fuck.

C B

My trans partner is much more relieved that Trump is out, because we were mostly conditioned to be afraid of his bigoted, heavily armed followers, as well as advisors like Bannon, Miller, etc. The last thing I wanted was to have was like some right wing LGBT genocide in a second term. Not hearing many left podcasters acknowledging that fear as a real driving force that led to this consolidation of the status quo, perhaps it's just a given. I am hoping that something new will emerge, but I have no idea how to do that when the right wing is so insane right now. Maybe the left needs to buy some more trucks and guns too, or join the military or get more gym memberships, but I don't know.

DJ PaulyT
>>47453421

I just listened to a recent episode and it hurt my brain and I don’t know why. Would love to hear their take on him

DJ PaulyT

Does anyone have a definition for neoliberalism that’s kind of easy to explain? I feel like I know what it is but have trouble explaining it to people who may be open to agreeing that it’s bad

Jess
>>47470754

That was why I supported Bernie--my job field is 1. Professional and 2. Increasingly gig-heavy. Which is doable with universal healthcare, impossible without. I think a lot of people want to THINK they're above these problems because they went to college, but they're not (and as "master's" becomes the new "bachelor's" the problem will just get worse).

Doug Welch (edited)

Comment edits

2021-07-23 00:44:33 Neoliberalism is a raft of several policies: curtailing social programs, ending taxes on several sectors of the economy which I would consider rent-seeking; essentially it boils down to rolling back social programs and empowering the rich and employers. It is the Right Wing reaction to the New Deal after the so-called “crisis of profitability” of the early 1970s. Although best associated with Reagan & Thatcher; even Carter was beginning an assault on labor regulations.
2020-11-10 21:13:28 Neoliberalism is a raft of several policies: curtailing social programs, ending taxes on several sectors of the economy which I would consider rent-seeking; essentially it boils down to rolling back social programs and empowering the rich and employers. It is the Right Wing reaction to the New Deal after the so-called “crisis of profitability” of the early 1970s. Although best associated with Reagan & Thatcher; even Carter was beginning an assault on labor regulations.

Neoliberalism is a raft of several policies: curtailing social programs, ending taxes on several sectors of the economy which I would consider rent-seeking; essentially it boils down to rolling back social programs and empowering the rich and employers. It is the Right Wing reaction to the New Deal after the so-called “crisis of profitability” of the early 1970s. Although best associated with Reagan & Thatcher; even Carter was beginning an assault on labor regulations.

Friend of Pangolin
>>47486200

I'm a fan of this video with George Monbiot explaining neoliberalism. I think he does a pretty thorough job in under 17 minutes. Also, Libs are much more willing to listen to and believe something when delivered in a British accent. This has been scientifically proven. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7MFJ4EFezQ

Matthew Black
>>47486200

Social liberalism honestly attempts to balance economic and social freedoms. Neoliberalism is based on the axiom that this conflict in the last instance is impossible (the market cannot be fundamentally racist,etc). The social is just economics

Carl Mann

I still do not think Trump is leaving . Pompeo is saying Trumps second term in office will be a smooth transition, Until the state and top republicans say that Trump lost , then I think we are still in big trouble here

Jimothy Realname

Don't blame me, *I* voted for Kodos

uleg0
>>47476084

i dont think he does anymore, since like dec-jan. i assume he probably still helps out at the union

Behold 666

Fantastic episode. Thanks for putting into words the frustration I was feeling watching those "celebrations." One detail: you mentioned that the 99% vs 1% analysis was the wrong starting point but didn't really elaborate on what the right starting point was.

Behold 666
>>47486200

This recent episode of The Dig does a pretty good job: https://www.thedigradio.com/podcast/ruins-of-neoliberalism-with-wendy-brown/

J P 3
>>47486200

Quinn Slobodian's "Globalists: The End of Empire and the Birth of Neoliberalism" is a good place to go for some guidance. There are a bunch of interviews and Q&As that he does on the topic -- also Wendy Brown cites his work in the Dig episode above. On one level it was an attempt to recreate the Hapsburg Empire by Austrian Economists like Hayek and von Mises. Practically, it was an effort to insulate economic decision making from popular and democratic pressure at both the national and international level. e.g. internationally, if a state attempted to nationalize a domestic industry, it offered a means through global institutions (including the WTO) to force privatization; when neoliberals took control of domestic economies with Thatcher and Reagan it was an effort to take public services and put them under private control. Socially, it was an attempt to maintain traditional hierarchies. As Thatcher said "there is no such thing as society, only men, women, and families" (paraphrase).

Chris Dertz

I am going to listen to this podcast episode :)

Cary B
>>47497853

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've been feeling pretty alienated from pretty much everyone because I'm cynical and angry with the current situation and everyone around me is at the very least relieved.

HATERSLAYER420

this one really hit me. i appreciate you two.

Lilith

Lefties rejoicing in exchanging Trump for Biden is like a slave rejoicing at getting a new owner, because at least it's not the previous owner.

Alex Palmer

Liz's commentary at the end was really good

DH
>>47477005

If only you put as much effort into organizing with "scary ass motherfuckers" in West Virginia as you do rage-psychoanalyzing a podcaster you're subscribed to.

uya
>>47477005

how is biden going to protect abortion rights? that has nothing to do with the executive? so u dont like liz’ personality? ok? dont listen to the podcast lol. u come off as insane and insecure.

uya
>>47453421

hes retarded. there now they dont have to do an episode on him and can focus on something structural / important etc

ADDTTHBJK

“you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take”—jesus

Sam Bidmead
>>47453421

He’s a fucking dangerous retard tho. His intellectual dark web is well worth a bit of an investigation.

Benjamin Murray
>>47454558

My opinion is that I am going to vote anyway, and while I am there if I can't within good conscience support one of the major party candidates, I will vote third party. I've also voted Green, for example, when only an R or only a D were other options. I don't expect results from them, but it is objectively a net positive that they are in the conversation and giving people another option.

Benjamin Cheney

Great episode but it’ll need to be updated in the (still highly probable) event that the election results are annulled or reversed. We’ll see what happens, as the Professor Doctor says

Carl Mann

I hope Liz and Brace are right about Biden as President , oh wait , we’re not gonna get that chance cause Trump and the Republicans are not leaving are they ?

Nolan Anderson

Do any other teenagers listen to this shit? Have zero faith in the politics of my generation after seeing their reaction to Biden winning

Matt
>>47524959

Yeah a lot of people say zoomers will save us, but zoomers can also be pretty whack. I think the whole generation thing is overblown. There's shitty people and awesome people in every age group.

Daniel Epstein
>>47497853

Bifo talks about this some in several books, I think there’s also a pretty solid critique of occupy in Inventing The Future, although I’m very skeptical of a lot of their conclusions in that book. The TL;DR version is basically that there actually are a very large portion of workers who have been lashed tightly to the “economy” by way of 401ks, home ownership, etc etc. Workers have been cleaved into what amounts to a financial upper class and a service underclass, with *seemingly* opposed interests.

Carl Mann

Lol I literally the other day told someone , don’t worry , the zoomers got this 😕

Carl Mann

Quinoa

Reverend Carter

idk why everyone hates you today but fuck em

DH

I don't know why everyone is mad at Liz and Brace for not hedging their criticism of Biden. Do you need to be assured by two avowed Marxists that your vote for Biden in a demonstrably anti-democratic electoral system was actually good? You can find takes from literally every other corner of the internet validating your decision. I don't know about you, but I came to this podcast to hear common narratives ripped apart.

will h

we hear for you homie

HATERSLAYER420
>>47477005

wow you fucking suck lmao people like to throw the term projection around a lot, but this line is incredible: "you don't act like a comrade - you act like a sniping, smarmy, snarking, JUDGEMENTAL asshole" log the fuck off

cheep_hardware
>>47466479

I think you might be confused about the nature of 'commentary', and....I dunno, the alternative is like, a highly sterilized, impersonal recitation of carefully refined, targeted intent. I don't actually need much more of that - I'm more happy to see growth, development, confusion, working-through of thoughts. It feels more like a person, rather than a plan.

cheep_hardware
>>47478583

yeah its nuts that ACAB people are celebrating, for the most part, electing the two worst democrats re: crime and police brutality, my god.

cheep_hardware
>>47477005

SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS: i'm just superficially happy for a slight, relative, admittedly superficial tiny thing

cheep_hardware

It is so funny to see people react like petulant children to hearing someone act like the whole political system is shit. Just, such sad humanity who immediately rejects hearing someone say "this is fucked. I don't offer a 'solution'", they just can't do it, can't hear a single hopeless thought. Thanks Brace n Liz (and lil chompy), glad to hear someone being honest about what they can speak for - their own experience, without some advertising campaign, or sponsorship, or whatever the fuck.

cheep_hardware
>>47566730

hooooo i got pretty close to saying 'lived experience' there. i need to take a deep breath.

Panic
>>47477005

"too bad brace doesn't leave your ass" how do u call out liz for this but not recognize that brace has expressed kinda reactionary shit along similar lines on the podcast before as well - i literally dont understand why yr so focused on liz while giving brace a pass - its a funny podcast not sure what u really want from them

swervegriffin

This episode was very good imo, I enjoyed liz’s analysis of occupy, but I’d like to hear more about why that theory is flawed/ where to go from here. Will you talk more abt this?

Sebastian Wittekindt

I think the thing that these episodes are always missing is that if you tell someone that everything they believe in is bullshit and there’s no hope in it then you also need to offer an alternative. You guys keep making jokes and hinting at what the real left should be doing but then never delivering. Whether that’s building dual power, organizing labor, organizing the student movement etc; just point peoples anxieties in some sort of productive direction and you won’t constantly get accused of being doomers.

Sebastian Wittekindt

Also I disagree that the regime is strengthened. The fact that the only cardboard motherfucker they could find to be president is Joe fuckin Biden is testament to their dwindling legitimacy. In that legitimacy vacuum new things will become possible.

Sammi
>>47579640

Do you think there might be a reason someone might be cautious about being transparent with future plans and strategies in our line of politics

Sebastian Wittekindt
>>47579640

No you’re right, political strategy should only ever be discussed on private discord servers so the CIA won’t catch on 🙄

JHB

I guess this is proof that anyone who stakes out any hill to die on in this election ends up looking like a fool.

carl

“mind rifle” 50 cal in ur brain dog

Ben Jammin

I needed Brace singing Fight Song

Markus Puskar

You guys should unlock this episode

cheep_hardware
>>47579640

Haha, there is absolutely no reason that a person offering critique should offer a solution. I don't know where people get this idea. It feels so soft, like 'if you're not going to say something nice, don't say anything at all'.

cheep_hardware
>>47579754

Eh, I'll agree w/ya somewhat there. I don't get a huge message of strength from the dems, but then again, their whole identity is not winning and chirping from the sidelines about how 'cheeto man facist' and shit.

Sebastian Wittekindt
>>47579640

I didn’t mean this as like an absolute statement. Of course critique is useful on its own. The issue is that if you only ever offer critique and say “wow the left is so powerless, nothing we do has any hope for the future.” Well then you are being a doomer and people will call you out for it if you don’t offer an alternative. WHERE 👏🏼IS👏🏼THE👏🏼BELDEN👏🏼PROGRAM

Sebastian Wittekindt
>>47579754

I don’t even mean just the dems. I think like Liz was saying it’s a testament to how much the contradiction within the bourgeoise class has sharpened. They seem entirely inept to handle the crisis of capitalism, and as this develops it will create new opportunities for anyone who is organized enough to take advantage of it.

The Invisible Ass of the Market
>>47549521

Honestly the common narrative in the far left since Bernie dropped out has been "it doesnt matter anymore, no further action is needed from you." That smug uselessness is what's disappointing

Ryan Forest

thank you guys for this, felt like i was going crazy with everyone so hyped on biden and shitting on the entire concept of election fraud/manipulation. glad to hear some other people have a similar state of mind right now

Matt

Where do correct ideas come from: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-9/mswv9_01.htm

lolwuthappend

"she's a charmless woman" says one of the most glib, self-indulgent voices in media.

Megan Dabkowski

Thanks for this ep. I know you didnt want to do it. But your fans appreciate it. So many people in my life praise Biden and I just really needed to hear someone else say the things i feel about him and the dems. I feel like people treat me like I'm pro trump if i try to bring up how the dems are also evil. Anyways. luv you.

Scott Lenz

Um, I'm still not clear on the point here: are y'all saying that Trump should still be President?

Lojban Chauvinist

After 10 minutes of polemic, still not sure what the hosts' problem with the "99 percent" slogan/idea is. Some theory of the professional-managerial class, I imagine, but who knows. Brace seems like he has some Third Worldism in his thought, which makes the support for Sanders (and the despair over the capitulation of the U.S Left) all the more puzzling.

Rai

wish y'all would stop pushing "cancel culture" as a thing. it's not real. and it certainly is not the same as twitter the company censuring people.

Rai
>>47579640

the solution is socialism. I feel like they've been pretty clear about that lol.