Home
Artists
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register
Partychan Telegram Live Sex ThePornDude
Home Artists Posts Import Register

Clarification on Will Overgard's termination (Patreon)

Published:
2018-06-17 00:16:46
Imported:
2022-01

Content

Some of you may be aware that a few days ago, our former Twitch channel manager Will Overgard posted on Twitter details regarding his termination. For this particular situation, we decided to issue a public clarification of the details regarding his employment and termination, which you can read here. 

I wanted to add a personal statement by me, the community manager:

We always want to be transparent, but transparency needs to be balanced with respecting privacy, because we know that everyone makes mistakes and everyone deserves second chances. In the past 18 months I’ve been working at Extra Credits I’ve upheld our responsibility to act in good faith, a responsibility which has been supported by my managers and my coworkers. The truth tends to be more complicated and nuanced than we give it credit for, and on social media it is very easy to jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story or having a personal knowledge of someone’s character. So to reiterate, the decision to let go of Will was not a snap decision, nor was it made by a single individual. 
Firing someone is always a difficult choice, especially for small and tight-knit businesses like ours. It’s not something Extra Credits has ever done in the ten years it’s existed.  After we did all we could to try to minimize the harm to the person we had to fire in the hopes that they could do better elsewhere, sometimes letting someone go is the best option. There’s plenty of good reading and resources out there for business owners about how to make good hires precisely so that everyone wins the first time around, but mistakes can and do happen.  
I appreciate everyone’s understanding, and I (Belinda) sincerely wish the best for Will going forward in his professional and personal life.

Comments

Tiberia Prima

This goes deeper than I had previously thought :P

Anonymous

So this is the first I’ve come across this particular employee issue, so I’m not sure how to feel about it or the response as yet. Except for one thing that does come to mind - you guys did a video called “Fire Early” which deals with this very question.

Anonymous

So, as I think about this statement, I can’t help but feel concerned - mind you, when I say this, I do not mean in the sense of casting any aspersions or suspicions; rather, I literally mean only that I feel concerned. Mainly because this detailed explanation of his termination is of such personal consequence to his subsequent professional endeavors; such that even if Will’s termination was entirely deserved and even if his subsequent statements were entirely unethical, it cannot help but send a message and have a chilling effect on other former employees. And not only of Extra Credits (wherein, if it were, I would feel less conflicted, seeing the special circumstances involved), but of all employers similar to EC, who can utilize this effect to better fight against accountability of any kind. But even as I say this, I can understand the logic saying that this step was necessary for the well-being of the company - there was clearly concern that Will’s words of support (or “support”, depending on the reality and/or perspective of the matter) of Soraya created an insidious impression that her exit from the company was part of a wider pattern of abusive management, which answering only legitimate concerns would not fix. I am not in any position to say whether this concern was valid or not, nor whether the statement released constitutes an overreaction. That is why I do not cast any aspersions - as of now, I can only say that I am concerned.

Miyagawa Ketsueki

What is going on in Extra Credits right now....?

Elizabeth Sullivan-Burton
>>13141680

In most scenarios, I would agree. However, that said, if you, as a fired employee, choose to make public comments attacking your former employer for firing you unjustly, it is not unreasonable that they may feel the need to respond and document why those statements are untrue. This is particularly true in a situation where if they let the comments stand without refutation, it makes them seem to be true.

Shorewood
>>13140167

Might be how they learned the lessons they taught in that video.

Anonymous

I'd like to echo Christopher's first point above - you really should not have posted the Will/Soraya clarifications to the Patreon feed. By doing so, you've publicised the issues to a much broader audience who would otherwise have been blissfully unaware that anything was wrong. However, I am very sympathetic to your situation. Extra Credits has grown rapidly over the last few years, and this is (I believe) the first time that you've had major problems with (ex-)employees. There's a reason that HR departments exist, despite the fact that they often seem like a waste of space: HR is hard. It's unfortunate that you've had several things blow up all at once, but hopefully you'll be able to look back on this as a learning experience in a few years' time. I know there is a trend on youtube etc to take action against content producers based on their actions rather than their content. So, I understand why you feel you have to head this off before it blows up too much. However, this kind of drama doesn't affect my choice to support you or not - I will continue to support you as long as I continue to enjoy the content you produce. Don't let all of this distract you from your core purpose - making enjoyable and educational videos.

Anonymous

I'm Assuming that Will either Left of his own Free Will or that the Sheep, in their Infinite Wisdom, Decided it was Time for him to go?

Anonymous
>>13148109

I agree mostly, however there is a saying, never be the last one holding a secret. I think issues like this should be behind closed doors but when it's already out in the street, the last thing you want to do is make it appear your hiding something. when for instance they go googling why Soraya isn't in lies anymore, and the company is silent people assume the worst.

Ryan Wojciechowski

At what feels like a crippling watershed for EC, and EH by association, I want to give my voice in aid of this community to carry on. Some people have said that posting these updates and clarifications has drawn unnecessary light to them. That it has hurt the credibility of the producers and that it may have been better to keep it hidden away as we could carry on on ignorant bliss. But ignorant is not bliss, if anyone on this page believed that they wouldn't donate and vote upon esoteric topics for educational videos, and if EC conspired to hide these issues they become deeper stain upon the company. By telling all of us, fairly and as timely as they could, they showed us they are not in the business of trafficking secrets, they showed us they are not harboring a Weinstein-esque cult of cruelty, they showed us they are human. People will and have called this mudslinging. Mud was slung at EC by Will and their response was meant to make it clear they did not cheat a model employee. They were accused of truly heinous actions by Will and to leave them echoing on the internet would only grow them into uncontrollable storms of fury too far gone for anything to stop them. The issue with Soraya is....let's settle on unsettling for brevity's sake. James has been an integral and interesting component of the team since the series began and while he was exonerated by an independent source this certainly does not seem to be a far enough step to satiate the patrons. How EC handles his position and how James grows from this is yet to be seen but it is with perhaps too much optimism that I believe they will do what is best. I know this cacophony of controversy is far beyond anything we patrons signed up for, and that it can begin to feel as though EC has betrayed the ethics they have taught throughout their videos. However, this company is more than these travesties. Before you cancel your pledge remember the episodes on the Bronze Age collapse. Remember that the strongest civilizations could withstand shocks that would crush lesser states. EC is a strong group. (We survived losing Dan didn't we?) We are ambitious and hungry for knowledge and filled with a passion we want to share with the world. We cannot surrender hope for the good works yet to come from this channel, especially now when it seems almost right to. My sincerest hope is that perhaps you, whoever is reading this, will carry on with me in keeping our pledges and supporting EC to its natural end. And if you wonder why anyone would bother writing all of this; well there's really only one answer I could give: "For the love of games".

Flight-042
>>13162823

While these incidents have been poorly handled I agree with your points. I am less informed about these incidents from most people who have followed this scenario from the beginning but if there is 1 thing I wholeheartedly believe it is that I appreciate honesty even in the most dire/horrendous circumstances. Hiding what has happened may keep a pretty picture but it won't fix it. There are people who will rightfully withdraw their pledge due to this issue, but I will instead increase my pledge and try to keep track of this issue such that I give EC the chance to do right in the future.

ExtraCredits
>>13141886

Well for one, an incredibly stressful week for yours truly the community manager, dealing with people passing uninformed judgement about my work situation. On a more broader note, we're going through the necessary growth and change that happens when a company becomes a company and less a "group of friends doing a fun thing." Months before they were in the public eye, these lessons had been getting us to be more formalized about our work processes and improve team communication.

Kakirtog, the Charr in gold

I have no idea how to start with this, so I'll just go through it the way I went through it. The first thing I got was the Patreon statement. This was a good PR move, not because it was a great post (we'll get to that later) but because for me, it was ahead of the curve. That way, you got to me before the other posts did. I'm sure they would have, eventually. And that would not have been a good look. A more cynical person than me might say that was calculated, I don't know. What I found next was Soraya's twitter feed. It immediately struck me how her allegations were far longer and covered way more than your response did. I'm not calling it an apology because it does not contain the word 'sorry', 'apology' or even admit to wrongdoing, other than a very general statement about something being 'not fine from an Extra Credits perspective'. After I found that, I found Will's whole ordeal, which seemed pretty similar in tone. That was when it started to get really uncomfortable. Since I found 2 sources James had personal dealings with, both saying James behaved rather unprofessional, I could no longer be in the doubt of one person's word against another's. Later I found even more accusations of unprofessional behavior. And now, I am speaking out. I am speaking out because I want you to do something more about this. I want you to prove to me you didn't do this, or to admit wrongdoing and apologize. I want you to take back the response saying it happened between 2 'employees' when we all know it was between a boss and their employee, making a rather different situation. I also want you to tell us why Soraya and Will were not included in the HR review, or if they were asked to, tell us that they were and refused to cooperate (though I would have trouble believing that after Will's statement on it). But even more than that, I want to know why the response in general is so lackluster. Soraya quit half a year ago. If it is true that you care about your employees, why is something only being done now? Why does it require public accusations and outrage to get you to do something? That HR review should have been done right after Soraya left, or preferably even sooner. If I can believe Soraya on this, she told James to stop messaging her repeatedly, and told others about it, called it harassment and there were still not enough red flags for you (and if I can't trust her on this, you should tell me, for now I can only assume that she tells the truth since you did not dispute that). I am rather disappointed in all this As it is now, I feel not enough has been done, or if it has, not enough info is made public for me to continue supporting this show. I would say I am cancelling my donation and subscription and that I can come back after changes have been made or a lot more has been done, but I am terrible with that. Therefore, I will give you 1 more week to let you show how you will address this further. If it is not satisfactory, I will cancel my subscription and donation. I feel that you, as progressive voices in gaming media, have a responsibility to set a good example. Everybody makes mistakes. But from how they deal with those, you can tell what kind of people they are. Honestly, I expected better. I am sorry for any teammembers caught in the blastzone of this. I hope that Extra Credits will get better and win back the support of the public. If it cannot, I hope you get a better employer next time. Best wishes, Kakirtog, the Charr in gold (a disappointed (possibly soon to be ex-)fan) PS. Why does the statement specifically say it was a female manager? Why does that matter?

ExtraCredits
>>13179275

The HR review was conducted months ago very shortly after Soraya quit; just because people are only hearing about it now does not in any way indicate what has or hasn't been done about it behind the scenes. This is a situation that we took very seriously from the get-go. There are honestly dozen of things we would like to say and dozens of drafts made, and most of those things we have been recommended *not* to say at this time from our advisors, both from a legal perspective and from a community perspective (as James already stated in his follow-up, we've been working with diversity consultants from the games community to help us further resolve this situation both publicly and privately; and honestly, because we care about our past and present employees, we've tried our best to prioritize the private resolution over the public-image one). Ultimately it is our responsibility to put as much information as we can out there, and let others decide what is true. At the end of the day we can't really control whether or not people believe us; some people think we've shared too much information, other people think we've shared far too little, some people think we're sincere and others think we've always been completely disingenuous. I still believe in Extra Credits's mission and values which is why I'm still working here. --Belinda

Michael Casolary

After finally getting a chance to look more into both Soraya's departure and Will's termination I've decided to end my subscription to & support of Extra Credits. Coupled with incidents from some years back regarding James making some incendiary comments at panels, these recent events have convinced me that James causes serious problems, particularly when he's given positions of authority. Despite this, it appears that James remains a core part of Extra Credits and a significant decision maker / manager. Based on some public statements he's made over the years I believe he's put work into improving himself as a person. That said, I can't fathom the logic of continuing to give him so much sway over a growing business and community when it's obvious he still has a lot of personal hurdles to get over. As a viewer of Extra Credits since the Escapist days, it pains me to have to step off the bandwagon and recommend that my friends do the same. However, James's failure to own up to any personal fault in the recent departures and the generic statements from Extra Credits on the matter make it clear that James still has a firm grip on the culture and direction of Extra Credits as an organization, and so long as that is true I no longer feel comfortable supporting Extra Credits. I hope that these events become an opportunity for growth and positive change at Extra Credits, and that some day I can resume being an avid supporter of Extra Credits and their mission of education and inclusion.

Kakirtog, the Charr in gold

It's a shame that there has been no further information released, although I can understand why. I question the need for Extra Credits' privacy now that the story is out, apart from a legal standpoint, which clearly signals what their priorities are. However, I would like the human element in this to come before covering oneself. It's a shame James is not more forthcoming with his side or with apologies Actual apologies, not some statement that at best only half acknowledges the facts (or allegations, depending on your viewpoint). It saddens me that these are apparently his true colors. But alas, it seems this is the way things are, and since James is clearly not going to step down or even take a break while dealing with this, I must bid adieu to Extra Credits. I hope James makes use of this ill-earned who-knows-how-manieth-chance. Sadly, I do not share the optimism. Goodbye A disappointed ex-fan