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Episode 457 - The Possibility of Evil (Patreon)

Published:
2019-06-27 13:49:47
Imported:
2021-07

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Content

Tune in as we investigate The Possibility of Evil by Shirley Jackson.

Special thanks to outstanding reader Edward E. French! Check out his full reading of this story, and subscribe on his YouTube page!

Next up: The Pool by Michael Shea, featuring Patton Oswalt!

Comments

Anonymous

COVER THE LOVED DEAD! Please! I BESEECH you! It's the only Eddy collaboration that's actually good, and it's a banger!

Anonymous

I love Shirley Jackson, I’d love to hear your take on Haunting of Hill House. This story made me think of the John waters film Serial Mom, when she is harassing her neighbors. She calls one of them on the phone and says bad words to her.

Anonymous

I could listen to Edward E. French read Maastricht Treaty :) Great reading and I love Chris' new-found energy in the intro!

Anonymous

I would really like to read the sequel to this story. I imagine it would open with “Miss Strangeworth lay slumped over her desk, dead”. It’s a small town, word gets around and you can imagine those people she effected far more than a man who’s baby she called an idiot. I expect kids have been cut off from families, law suits, divorce. Someone is going to want to kill something other than roses. Also Chad mentioned it had a twilight zone feel to it. The story did remind me of a season 3 episode called 4 o’clock about a man who thought there was a conspiracy of evil in the world. Of course the ending was very weird unlike this one. Great show and awesome reader.

Anonymous

Is it sweeps week in podcast land because you guys are on such a roll. Great story, great discussion.

Anonymous

"The Possibility of Evil" might as well be the motto of Jackson's entire oeuvre. Her eye for the strange beneath the mundane, the sinister among the everyday is unrivaled. I'm glad to see her gain some popularity these days; she's still woefully underappreciated, in my opinion.

Anonymous

I've been waiting for

Anonymous

Looking forward to listening to the podcast on my drive home. Just read the story, liked it so much that I also read The Lottery and have checked out the ebooks of The Haunting of Hill House and We Have Always Lived in the Castle to read this weekend. Thanks Chris & Chad!

Anonymous

Second try: I've been waiting for MONTHS to hear about Necronomicon! Word. I'll be there. I bought a CM Eddy collection at Necro 2015... it was not great. Ghost Werewolf is really the only option. I think we can all agree on that. And Shirley Jackson rocks. WOOT!

Anonymous

Mr. French's performance just lights this story up! I listened to the complete version (thanks for the tip!) and my skin was crawling by the half-way point! I wish the reveal and the conclusion had been a little creepier, to live up to the mood. I gotta say, writing mean anonymous letters doesn't really do much for me. Maybe it's living in the age of internet trolls and surveillance, but it doesn't really feel that horrifying. It's just a thing people do, I guess. And compared to internet anonymity (which is itself largely an illusion), mailing little notes through your local post office is going to be quickly traceable.

Anonymous

So what do you think happened to her roses?

Anonymous

Enjoyed this episode (as always). Not having read the story myself, did you get any impression that some of the older townspeople may have already known that she was sewing secrets and lies, and they feared her? The worried glances, the distraction when she entered a room - I got the impression from your reading that they were disturbed by her. In a way, she *did* own that town by sewing that fear and doubt for decades. Anyway, off to scrawl some crap about my neighbors on cheery lemon-yellow hate-paper.

Anonymous

Am I the only only one who thought of Miss Strangeworth as Southern? As in the "Bless your heart" brand of Southern, where "Bless your heart" actually means "Kill yourself"? I've lived there long enough to have had too many encounters with types who were sweetness and light on the outside, but filled with worms, beetles, and potato bugs. ETA: LOVED the reader! Mr. French is just spiffy!

Anonymous
>>24191283

The key is in the delivery, too. The more honest sincerity you can pour into a "bless your heart" or "I'll pray for you," the more venom on the knife you slide between their ribs.

Anonymous
>>24187880

Everyone that Miss Strangeworth notes as being distracted or upset is revealed to have been the subject or recipient of one of her poison pen letters. It could be that her victims are unnerved by her, perhaps suspecting her on an unconscious level.

Anonymous
>>24187656

I would guess hacked up, uprooted, doused in weedkiller, or some combination thereof.

Anonymous

Do you think the townsfolk knew that there was a poison-pen letter campaign at work, or did each recipient think they were the only person getting anonymous notes? I imagine that most people would be reluctant to compare notes, especially if it meant they had to consider whether or not the letters' claims had any validity. For another interesting take on the poison-pen phenomenon, I recommend the 1943 French film "Le Corbeau", in which the harm done by a series of anonymous missives is nearly eclipsed by the rage, fear, and paranoia of the ensuing hunt for the author.

Anonymous

Miss Strangeworth definitely reminds me of someone I knew from my childhood. This woman acted like she was a generation or two older than her actual age, and visibly took great pleasure in neighborhood gossip. She was extremely kind and sweet to your face, but I always got hints of insincerity from her at every encounter, even as a child. In the early 2000s, she and her husband divorced and some strange things came into public knowledge, confirming some of those suspicions. It's extra chilling to know that encounters with the two-faced grandparent-type is so commonplace. Yikes!

Anonymous

More kudos for Mr. French! I haven't read this one for quite some time. The comparison to internet trolling is a good one. I am a big fan of the title because it could refer to so many things. It could be an old lady writing her letters because there is the possibility of evil and she thinks of her letters as heading that off - or like the police officer who plants evidence on a suspect because, "If they're not guilty of this crime, well, you know they're guilty of something else that we couldn't pin on them." Or is it that we assume the best of each other when, perhaps, we should consider the possibility that they are evil? Or is this all prologue to the evil that is about to befall her - having messed with the wrong folks at last..?

Anonymous

An entirely delicious reading, with just the right edge of sharpness and condescension, perfectly appropriate to the story. I was honestly expecting that she was killing the townspeople and burying them in her rosebed so they would never leave, but that would have been even easier to spot than realising that the woman who buys her multi-coloured stationery locally might be connected to the poison pencil letters written on coloured stationery. Such an effective, chilling tale.

Anonymous

Read this one in advance. I was a bit "meh" but the show made it far more interesting. I guess the main theme is that self-righteous people do a lot of Evil in the name of Good. POSSIBLE SPOILER: Not exactly a twist at the end more just a mild come-uppance with the implication that she'll never learn.

Anonymous

You did bring quality to my life with this story! I'd never heard of it, but really enjoyed it. I think Stephen King must have been trying to imitate this in his "Morning Deliveries (Milkman #1)," a story that never impressed me much, but did have a certain chilling atmosphere - now I see how that atmosphere could be fully realized. I wonder if this behavior is meant to be a byproduct of mental deterioration - she only started writing the letters in the last year, right? Before that, presumably she was an upstanding member of the community - well, "upstanding" in the sense of a judgmental old biddy who thinks she has a right to offer unsolicited child-rearing advice and so on. I think a lot of this comes from Jackson feeling her neighbors gossiped about her and she was judged and excluded from the community. I seem to recollect they wound up living in a small town with relatively closed-minded people, and it really affected her.

Anonymous
>>24192044

I agree the real twist of the knife is people would feel they had to hide the letters, so no one could figure out what was actually going on. Le Corbeau makes me think of other fiction where simply writing things down causes misery. In Harriet the Spy and Biloxi Blues, the writers didn't even have ill intent, but when people found what they wrote, it was treated as true and/or malicious to terrible effect.

Anonymous

I really must watch Hot Fuzz again.

Anonymous

Edward French has a great voice. He reminds me of Vincent Price. Perfect for creepy stories. I would love to hear him do a reading of The Raven.

Anonymous

I have to admit listening to this episode brought back some memories from high school. During my Junior year I had to submit three book reports. All three were a blast for me to read and write; the sad part was the notes I got from the TA / reader. She basically pointed out that I needed to not be so dark and read some lighter books; and then that these books were removed from the school reading list. :( The three titles were: Haunting of Hill House - Shirley Jackson We Have Always Lived in the Castle - Shirley Jackson No One Here Gets Out Alive - Danny Sugerman

Anonymous

By the way, guys, what is that word you used to describe Miss Strangeworth? "Ponsterer?"

Anonymous
>>24209859

I used to sneak over and read the horror comic books...until my Dad lost his mind over it. America has a love hate relationship with horror. We love a good scare, but when it really touches something deep inside...the cultural event that was "The Exorcist" kicked off a lot of fearful reactions in our culture.

Anonymous
>>24213343

I believe it was "pot-stirrer," as in stirring the pot: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stir_the_pot

Anonymous

I love Shirley Jackson and I'm so glad you're covering some of her stories! I've also known several people like Miss Strangeworth (sadly, haven't we all?). In my experience, those people are very concerned with the appearance of perfection, with fitting into a specific social or cultural role, and are very insecure. Part of me wants to feel sorry for them, since most of the horrible things they do and say are (I believe) a way of making themselves feel better in the face of an overwhelming sense of inadequacy and shame. Judging, hurting and taking pleasure in the pain of others allows them to feel better about their own circumstances. All the people like this I've known seem to be so full of poison that it's just oozing out of them everywhere. Jackson had such insight into some of the uglier aspects of humanity. And not just how banal evil often is, but also just how petty and small-minded. I seem to recall that it's a theme that comes up in her stories often. Jackson is great. I support the decision to cover her on the podcast.

Anonymous

Mr. French returns! I might never go to church again.

Fred Kiesche

Will this be a lead in for more Jackson? Maybe a multi-part discussion of The Haunting, with bonus commentary on the movie (there was no remake), the series, and the ties to both Poe and King? MAKE IT SO!!!!!

Anonymous

That reading was awesome! Good job as usual. Speaking of that Twilight ep with the kid, would you guys consider doing the short story it is based on at some point? "It's a Good Life" by Jerome Bixby.

Anonymous
>>24245267

That is, indeed, a rather good tale and they should cover it.

Anonymous

Haven’t read the story but as I’m listening to this episode I’m thinking of another non-fiction book, The Sociopath Next Door. In it, the author explains that in general sociopaths are not as portrayed in Dexter or Silence of the Lambs, for example. Towards the end the author writes a fictional character and her interaction with neighbors to illustrate what your average sociopath is like. The part that stands out, I read this almost 10 years ago, was that this sociopath made sure to kill a groundhog while neighbors are watching. Just because.

Anonymous

Miss Strangeworth and Mr Lovecraft started a band KraftWorth (eighties techno) their first hit Strangelove

Anonymous

Am I the only one who heard "Miss Strangeworth" and thought "Mrs Butterworth"? I am such a terrible person... This whole episode had me craving waffles.

Anonymous

This one for me brought to mind Needful Things by Stephen King. One of my favorites, the Devil moves into Caste Rock and opens a store called Needful Things. Each person who browses there finds the one item that would most fulfill their life, but rather than letting them buy it, the Devil asks them to do him a favor, some innocuous thing like the kid he asks to throw mud on the clean sheets his neighbor has hung out to dry. She of course suspects someone else with whom she's having an issue and pretty soon the whole town is set against each other and a near war erupts. Max Von Sydow plays the Devil in the movie adaptation. Great concept that I echos what Miss Jackson was laying down; the little suspicions planted for sick joy of injecting mistrust and chaos into the lives of the otherwise content or complacent. The true meaning of 'sinister'.

Anonymous

Great episode as always! You guys should absolutely do "The Haunting of Hill House"! I did a recent episode on my show talking about how the Netflix show, the 1999 movie and the 1963 movie interpreted Shirley Jackson's source material. My show just scratches the surface of the overall narrative, so I am curious about your take on the novel's themes. If anyone is interested you can just look up "The Writer's Beard" on your podcast service of choice and listen to Episode 40.

Anonymous

Always loved this story, though it's very disturbing. I get the banality of evil concept, but sometimes think it gets a bit overstated and broadened in the process. The phrase originated from reports for the New Yorker by Hannah Arendt, regarding the trial of Adolf Eichmann. She observed that Eichmann looked and sort of acted like a sedate school teacher. Of course, this was around twenty years after the events he was on trial for, and he was deliberately trying to come off that way and minimize his role in events, despite evidence that he was in charge of aspects of the Holocaust. Calm, German efficiency about following orders, went the popular story, evil was banal and not even enthusiastic, after all. But an associate once claimed that Eichmann had said while making his escape that he would gleefully go laughing to the grave due to knowing that he had personally been responsible for the deaths of millions. So, which version of him is the real one? The quiet school teacher lookalike, or the enthusiastic killer? We may never really know, but it's been debated in writing and dramatizations ever since. My point is that it may be a mistake to go by appearances on such stuff. Sure, some were just following orders, but there were plenty of enthusiasts and true believers in the scene as well. And of course they don't admit it later on when caught, and try to minimize the appearance of overt malice in their role. Yes, Arendt had a point, but it tends to get blanketed on too much these days, and may have been started from a misleading example.

Anonymous

One of the most interesting things is how the term “Trolling “ got completely turned into something that it most likely wasn’t seen to be.In the early days of message boards “Trolling” was used as a noun ,the top down procedure of the fishing term.Hence “fishing for comments” ,that was the term most early internet users associated it with.I never saw one person ever call another a “Troll” ,mostly the term “stop trolling “.Then came the unwashed masses to the net and like any new bunch of heathenry ,the Troll was belittled into a creature from under(the bridge in this case).

Steve

Gotta love Shirley Jackson, great show!

Anonymous

This show was a total aural pleasure, Chad and Chris—wonderful discussion! I was happy (strangely for such a dark story) to see this coming up on the feed. Few have written like Shirley Jackson, and none with the insight and wit she had for the darkness of the human condition. Coincidentally, I reread this a couple months back, as I’ve been thinking about the current state of the world. Your commentary and thoughts paralleled mine. Miss Strangeworth truly is an example of chaotic evil, a sociopath bent on the ruin of others to her own satisfaction, which sets her apart from Iago, whose motivations were intentionally inscrutable (“What you know, you know”). Her comeuppance is beautifully poetic. So thank you for covering this tale with such dedication. I hope you do cover more of Jackson’s work. Haunting of Hill House, as you said, is rightfully a psychological horror classic. I look forward to when you dissect it! And if you haven’t read her last novel, We Have Always Lived in the Castle, with its murderous and paranoid family, you absolutely should. It has the same dark neuroses that permeate Hill House, though set more in a depressingly plausible reality with a slowly building sense of dread among its psychologically complex and damaged characters. I wouldn’t recommend it for the show, but I would recommend it to anyone who was left haunted by The Possibility of Evil for hours (like Chad).

Anonymous

The behavior exhibited by the dear Ms. Strangeworthe is as common as light falling on the ground in the deep south. The town busybodies, the Grande dames and nearly everybody’s mamaw sashaying around, leveling judgements and discretely casting shade on any and everyone they come into contact with! Masquerading as polite concerns, and friendly advice. A never ending string of “ awww poor baby...” and “ bless your heart...” they are a force of nature. Mrs. Jackson’s work reminded me of my childhood. Thanks for presenting it in your inimitable style!

Anonymous

Edward E. French - absolutely fantastic voice actor. Loved listening to the mood he created just by his subtle use of tone. Does he do full audio book readings?

Anonymous
>>24327655

This is a time honoured trope in other cultures too. About 75% of Indian aunties are like this.

Anonymous
>>24181465

Likewise re: news about NecronomiCon. Glad to hear you guys will be there! I'm a Rhode Island resident volunteering at a few of the events and participating in a dramatic reading thingy, so I'll definitely be there.

Anonymous

Kinda cool that you released this on Lottery Day, June 27.

Anonymous

Can't wait to see you guys in Providence!

Anonymous

One of the best episodes in a while. I started listening almost a year and a half ago and I just caught up. Nothing insightful to say, but here's a weird modern horror story: https://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/3iex1h/im_a_search_and_rescue_officer_for_the_us_forest/ I know you don't do fiction unless the author is dead and haven't done anything not published outside of Lovecraft but that (and it's linked to sequels) is my favorite creepypasta (other than the goatman). I hope you like the recc, it could potentially work for a topics show maybe? In that case I'd need to boost up to a $6/month to listen to it.

Anonymous
>>24426685

One of the images of that no sleep became, I believe, a core inspiration for Channel Zero's third season, although it goes to significantly different places.

Anonymous

In the vein of pure free associating, a very different take on what it does, and doesn't, mean for a place to be "one's city." http://pseudopod.org/2018/04/13/pseudopod-590-emperor-all/

Anonymous

Ted French, that Vincent Price motherfucker, scaret all the fluids out of me. good job!

Anonymous
>>24449058

Yeah that was a great one. It reminded me of one of the Sandman stories, can't remember which one, but it was about a living city consuming the dreamer(s).