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Greatest Peaks Ep. 13 | LeBron James 2012-13 (Patreon)

Published:
2021-02-24 23:50:20
Imported:
2023-07

Content

LeBron time. While I'm not sure how big of a difference there was between his actual impact in 2009 and 2013, there were differences in play style, and so the chosen peak here is the height of his Miami version. 

Reminder: If you have access to this post, you are invited to vote in the Patreon Top-10 peaks at the end of this series. Voting will take place after the final player profile and will be revealed as part of the final episode of this series.

($7 subscribers will receive most videos in this series a week before they are released to the public, $4 subscribers a few days later).

Files

LeBron peak final comp.mp4

This is "LeBron peak final comp.mp4" by Ben Taylor on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

Comments

Anonymous

Fav one

Anonymous

Still kicking myself for refusing to watch LeBron during these years because of "The Decision". I've even thought about becoming a neutral fan just so I never miss out on greatness for petty reasons ever again. Thankfully he's still an absolute spectacle to behold even today.

Anonymous

Ben you dirty dog. "It's easy to see, why so many people consider lebron the greatest of all time" when we all know ben is also referring to himself (though I would bet he picks jordan to have the highest peak and lebron 2nd, he has said lebrons championship equity over his career makes him the goat)

Anonymous

Great video. I do think it would also be valuable to consider what Lebron's peak is in less broad brush strokes. Specifically in the playoffs, some of the series he played on the Cavs from 16-18 were otherworldly. The 16 Finals, 18 ECF both come to mind. I would say that level of play surpasses what he did on the Heat in the playoffs

Anonymous

The only thing I missed in the vid is how good he's always been on not biting on up fakes

Anonymous

Was really upset that Splitter block wasn't mixed in with this when you were showcasing his ability to act as a rim protector.

Anonymous
>>54374418

True, although some of these without Wade stats makes you wonder if those Heat years wouldn't have been just as otherworldly, if not more so, had LeBron been in a similar situation roster wise during those Miami years. That and I used to hate watching Bosh just pick spots to stand in. I know they wanted him to be a shooter but if the guy would have just made opportunistic cuts when they were available Bron could have averaged 10 assists on that team. I always felt Bosh had horrible off ball offensive awareness, even Love who was more of a shooter than Bosh would cut to openings or post up small guars on switches. Bosh seemed to get caught standing and watching and not crashing for rebounds far too often.

Anonymous

One of the most subtle but amazing part of LeBron's athleticism is his ability to throw no look, laser skip passes with the flick of his wrists.

Anonymous
>>54360763

I want to say Ben provides different ways of measuring the goat. I think his career value/championship equity results that show LeBron as best and the Peak series (which we will see) might have Jordan as slightly higher reiterates his Goat agnosticism

Anonymous
>>54374418

It makes me wonder how great Miami's offense would have been if Wade was asked to either play much less alongside LeBron or just come off the bench. Because of their skill overlap, I think the offense could have been great if they played this more

Anonymous

It's so interesting to me scoring around the rim is often not seen as particularly skillful. I get it cause I was of this thought for a while, but Ben's work has shown the level of mastery it requires. It's often the most important & efficient shots to take, so I'm glad the series is illuminating the value in rim finishing as a craft

Anonymous

Hey Ben, will you be making another podcast for sub-all stars this year?

Anonymous
>>54374418

Offensively perhaps, but when you factor in defense, 12-13>>>>>>>

Anonymous
>>54374418

Maybe. He was pretty insane in the 16 playoffs. The thing with Lebron is, he clearly had the capability of being an all league defender even if not displaying it in 2017 and 2018 in Cleveland. In 2020 on the Lakers surrounded by solid defensive pieces, he expended more energy on defense and was a strong plus on that end. So he clearly had the ability to do that 2-3 years before in Cleveland. The 17 and 18 Cavs were such poor defensive teams though that he opted for a more offensively slanted approach. In his later years in cleveland I feel confident in saying that he was a more skilled and comfortable passer than in Miami, and capable of reading more coverages than ever. This is why I do feel to a degree that we should be assessing players on what they're capable of playing like even if not showcased all the time because of effort/role. I would reckon that Lebron, teammates that have watched him, coaches around the league, and opponents would all take 2016-2018 Lebron in a single playoff series over Heat Lebron.

Anonymous

As a huge Lebron fan, I would love to watch a video on 09 Lebron & the difference between his play style from 13 Lebron. How many likes would it take to make it happen? 😂

Anonymous

quick aside, he almost certainly didn't weigh more than karl malone

Anonymous

Awesome work Ben. LeBron is my favorite player ever.

Ben Taylor
>>54374418

Cool thread here -- I've got no issue saying his offense kept getting better, but I do think sustained defense is the issue. I second the idea that Love was a better offensive fit next to him than Bosh.

Ben Taylor
>>54392305

Haha -- I've used it in a prior video, and I had it cued up but never really found an organic spot I liked it in.

Ben Taylor
>>54495562

Yes! But not until after the All-Star break this year. I want a larger sample.

Ben Taylor
>>54563147

?? I've never seen prime Malone discussed as much more than 260 -- from Malone himself, since he did tons of fitness interviews.

Anonymous
>>54563147

As someone who used to be into bodybuilding I’m pretty good at estimating weight based on muscle development and body fat, exact weights for players so much taller than most bodybuilders is tricky but I think it’s very unlikely lebron ever actually maintained 270 in any season, Karl Malone’s arms chest delts and back were far more developed than lebrons. Unless lebron is significantly taller than Malone was, which I doubt, I would put a lot of money on prime Malone being heavier than lebron ever was for a full season. Relative muscle development is objectively not close, so in my semi-professional opinion it’s impossible lebron was heavier unless he was significantly taller or He carries significantly more body fat than he seems to.

Anonymous
>>54563147

Also he almost certainly is significantly taller than Malone as they’ve both stood next to Kobe and AD

Anonymous
>>54563147

That response probably came across as a little dismissive I apologize but hopefully that reinforces that while they have different body types (lebron probably carries more fat in his back and legs and his clavical is perhaps naturally wider) assuming they are around the same height I actually would be mind blown if lebron was HEAVIER, I can buy lebron being in the same weight range in his biggest seasons but heavier is extremely unlikely

Anonymous
>>54563147

To put it in simple terms the bodybuilding community uses, Malone almost certainly was on some form of anabolic steroid, his size and development even excluding height is unattainable naturally for 99.9% of the population, while lebrons size if we discount height is ABSOLUTELY attainable naturally with consistent Exercise and diet. (Not to say he isn’t on peds). A simple explanation for any weight disparity is water weight and temporary fat stores from a less strict offseason diet, while Malone who was actually into bodybuilding like only stated his lean weight while depleted because that’s what most bodybuilders share unless they are bulking

Anonymous
>>54563147

Wow, this is super intense analysis. I need you to be my trainer and get me the ideal basketball body.

Ben Taylor
>>54563147

I see no issue with the reports. LeBron has more weight in his legs (much bigger driver of body weight than, say, arms) and has a higher BF%, longer arms and might be taller. Karl basically has a curl jockey body. Lean-ness of upper body tends to throw people's perception of weight off. When I was doing body-weight work (so smaller legs), people consistently over-estimated my weight by a good 8-10%. When I had higher BF% and bigger legs, they consistently under-estimated my weight by 5-7%. And Karl didn’t bulk during an NBA season, and as far as I’m aware, there is no evidence he ever had anything remotely like an off-season bulk you’d see from even amateur bodybuilders.

Anonymous
>>54563147

yes legs are a bigger driver of weight than your arms obviously, but there should be no more than a 5-7 pound difference AT MOST for guys the same height with some leg development, and I don't think lebron has much higher bf% in any full season unless you're talking about compared to young malone. And you misunderstand i wasn't saying that malone bulked, i was saying that malone would state his lean weight in interviews, fasted without water weight, because that's what bodybuilders mention, while lebron perhaps did weight 270 while bloated from eating certain high glucose foods or something, but he wasn't actually walking around and 270. Malone wasn't just a little more devloped in the arms, malone is far bigger in the arms shoulds chest and back, i did account for lebron carrying more bodyfat in his legs and back, perhaps in his biggest seasons he was similar to a younger malone, but there is no way he was ever significantly heavier than malone, ever. There is legitamely no way. Malones upperbody carried more weight than lebron carrying more in his legs could possibly more than make up for.

Anonymous
>>54563147

I know im 2 years late but have you ever seen UFC heavyweight champion Ngannou ? He is 6’4 265, so Lebron is 5 inches taller and his lower body is just as big as Ngannou so i wouldn’t be surprised if he was 270, especialy in Miami.

Anonymous
>>54563147

And what about Zion ? 6’7 285, i’ve seen Lebron next to him and he is almost as big while being 2 inches taller. Wilder the heavyweight boxer also has a similar upper body as Lebron, but skinny legs, and at 6’7 he was 231 pounds in his fight against Tyson Fury. So Lebron is 2 inches taller, has way bigger legs and his upper body is still more developped than Wilder so he could easily be 270. Sometimes people look heavier than they are, Anthony Joshua look heavier or as heavy as Ngannou but he is actually 20 pounds lighter.