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Arrow S06E12 - All For Nothing FULL REACTION (Patreon)

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2020-12-19 05:36:35
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Wyatt

Okay let’s break this down. The problem is your question is wrong. Vince was undercover but never a good guy. He didn’t change until episode 9 of this season. As the show briefly states, Dinah and Vince started to meet after this episode. She convinces him he has been doing it wrong tries to get him to be good. This happens between irreconcilable differences and Divided. In Divided, in the fight between Oliver and Vince, there is one thing Vigilante never uses. A GUN! Mr I-freaking-love-guns doesn’t even aim one at Oliver let alone shoot one. Instead he goes hand to hand combat with him. Go back and look at that scene 90% of the moves made by Sobel are defensive and the ones that weren’t are intended to subdue. So did he try to murder them before? Absolutely! However no one said he was a good guy last season because he didn’t have a change of heart till this season. Now you can argue whether 5 weeks is long enough to have a change of heart or that they should have show him changing more but those are writing issues not character issues. I will standby for further questions

Wyatt

About the new team’s decision to go after Vince: I don’t like what if scenarios like this because there is millions of different variables that could have changed each outcome. But if we are then let’s break it down. Idealistic, you choose to save more people over the one. You can’t blame Dinah for going after Vince. Frankly, this is Curtis and Renee’s fault for not going with Oliver even then, it wouldn’t have mattered. 1. Scenario: Whole team goes to save Vince: if somehow Dinah convinced them all to help her she probably would have succeeded. If everything played out the same, Dinah under the concrete, Renee and Curtis fighting. That would leave Vince Oliver and Dig facing Black Siren. Idk about you but based on previous fights, my money is on Arrow. So they wouldn’t have the bomb but vince would be alive. 2nd Scenario: They all go to stop the bomb. They would have gotten to them faster however, that would still leave Digger to disarm the bomb. Leaving Dinah, Renee, Curtis and Oliver going to be stopped by the black trucks of guys (Assuming they all have bikes). At least two of them would be left to fight them leaving two to handle the four trucks. This makes it a 50/50 chance that one of them could get lucky and follow the right truck then singlehandedly take down Anatoly and Diaz. They only person on that team that could do that is Oliver which would make it a 1/4 chance. That is assuming they all have bikes which they don’t. Oliver rides a bike and the other ride in the van. Meaning either Oliver or the van would have to stay behind. Still leaving just Oliver or the van to pick a truck and go after it. Long story short they would lose the bomb. On the other hand, I think Shan was right. If Vince hadn’t been stopped, he would have escape so either scenario he lives. The wrong call is what happened. Splitting up is why they lost. Ik this is gonna be an unpopular opinion, but if we are looking with the benefit of hindsight as Shan did, to me Oliver made the wrong call. From past experiences, he knew there was no changing Dinah’s mind. Once Curtis and Renee went with, he knew they wouldn’t have enough to get the bomb, but for some reason did it anyway. He should have joined Dinah. Oliver’s choices were 1. Go after the bomb and loses it and Dinah 2. Go after Vince and lose the bomb but save Vince 3. Go after Vince and lose the bomb and Vince but Dinah would have known that he at least tried Dinah made the wrong call, but so did Oliver

David Brown

Last season the writers probably hadn't decided who Vigilante would turn out to be. When they decided that it would be Dinah's partner/boyfriend Vince, they had written themselves into a corner and had a hard time telling the new arc for the character. Especially after what he did the previous season, before they decided who he was.

Anonymous

I'm not that bothered about Dinah's hatred towards Oliver for his decisions, and not because I agree with Dinah, but only because it's everyone. I mean every character on the show, gets pissed off at Oliver, because he's killed someone, or he's lied about something, or because he was spying on someone. And most of the time it's wrong, and i understand why people don't like it. But nearly everyone in the show gets angry at Oliver, and pissed off at him, and then do the same. And it's in every season so far. Oliver does something, that someone doesn't like. They get angry, and pull away from Oliver. They do the same thing they got pissed off at Oliver for. I just feel like Oliver can't win. Even when he admits his wrong doings, or try to find a common place. It's always one rule for Oliver and another for everyone else. So I'm not bothered that Dinah's being stupid, and hypocritical this season, just because everyone has done it now, and it's just repetitive, and lazy writing. I love this show, and it was one of the first shows, that got me into watching shows. But this is so repetitive, and is used to created needless drama. When in reality, Oliver should just leave every character because they're just horrible, hypocritically, pieces of shit. Even when they're not.

Anonymous
>>49811304

Examples: We've had Moira Queen who was annoyed her son was keeping secrets. Thea hated everyone mainly Oliver (for knowing about Malcom being her father, despite that was Moira's wrong doing, not Oliver's) lying to her, and she constantly lied about speaking with her father. Felicity hated Oliver for his decision about his own son, she then became a cyber terrorist in a way, and lied about all of that. Diggle lied about being a drug addict.. Laurel hated Oliver lying about her sister, and everything, she then lied to Oliver about her sister several times. Lance, has constantly changed throughout the season, hating Oliver for being the Green Arrow, killing people, lying about his daughters. And he does does the same every season nearly. Working with Darhk, being a drunk, etc. And now obviously Dinah this season, who's angry because she got caught. Honestly if i were Oliver, I'd just leave them all. Because he get so much hate for doing things, he probably shouldn't. But it's okay for everyone else to do the same.

Anonymous
>>49811304

What do you mean it's okay for everyone to do it, but not ok of Ollie. Like he wasn't angry and hurt about Moira,and Thea, and Quentin lying and keeping secrets. He was, but he, mostly, being the bigger and better man, understood where they were coming from, and instead of lying and betraying them in return, like they did to him, he stops the vicious cycle and forgives people.....that why he's our hero and why we love him)))

Anonymous
>>49811304

It's not okay for them to do the same, I was being sarcastic. Because that's how everyone acts. They all believe it's okay for them to do it, but Oliver isn't allowed. And you're right Oliver is the better man forgiving them, but when it happens every season, and everyone gets pissed off at him, and then they do the same, it's surprising he just doesn't give up on them all. But then again he'd be a better than me, But yeah, just no. It's not okay for them to do it. It's wrong, hypocritical, and just outright cruel. And in other words, everyone is a bully towards Oliver due to this fact.

Brandon Wiesner

I'm pretty much with you on your thoughts. The writers have this terrible habit of not giving you enough to go on to get you invested in a character. Except of course the main ones. But then one of the main ones does something that is wrong in the eyes of other main characters, seemingly just to cause strife. It always ends up being temporary anyway and they all move on. With Vincent, there was definitely not enough shown, even with flashbacks, to get you yo be sympathetic toward him. So him dying was just like whatever and Dinah I couldn't really care less about her deciding to go back to her old ways, because her becoming part of the team and them trusting her was never really convincing to me anyway and I was nowhere near as invested in Laurel before she died as you were, so no bias there. She is just a weak character, as she is written in the show. I am following the show along with you, so I have no idea what happens going forward but it seems like this show hit its stride in earlier seasons and they have strayed too far from the old formula to gain it back. But I guess we shall see what the the rest of this season and the last 2 hold in store.

Anonymous
>>49807504

I agree, they shouldn't have split up, but Vinnie was dead anyway, even if he wasn't stopped, and the bomb didn't hit him, Cayden was still there, with Black Siren. And she would have wrecked him anyway......I mean, she used to level buildings in her first apearence in The Flash (episode 2x22 or whenever that was). So in the scenario that the whole team went after Vincent, Laurel would probably conveniently "powered up" again, and demolished the whole team, so they all could watch her scramble Vince's brains)

Anonymous

Was going to write something. But seeing how much already has been written I dont think that at moment I can think of something that has not already been said. But I did enjoy the different arguments and opinions I read.

Anonymous

Vince kills....never to be redeemed, he's on Dinah's arc so screw him....3 seconds later laurel kills...she can be redeemed like merlin....if laurel was currently in the role of dinah, oliver woulnt be getting sided with at every chance...just like the earlier seasons when laurel never listened to oliver.

Wyatt

As I previously stated, that was before Dinah showed him that he was wrong. Yes he was a bad guy last season and the beginning of this season; and I am not defending the action he took before then however, the Vince we see Laurel kill was not a villain.